It's up! Contested Skies Preview Pt7

[sgt. dekkard]

All I can say is awesome!

8 dices against infantry upto 16 hexes WITHOUT LOS! Oh boy! Oh boy! Oh boy!

sure they're innaccurate, but they get shrapnel

Drop a spotter on a jeep, race to the front lines and POW! right in the kisser - 3 success and say bye-bye SSPG & SE Paratrooper!

[Panzerjager]

I sure was hoping for a camo Jadgpanzer IV. I am really glad we are getting one, but I am not thrilled with the tan coloration. Bofors is better than I expected!

[Arontje]

40mm Bofors L60

Cost: 9
Speed: 0
Defense: 3/3

AI: 11/10/9
AV: 6/6/5

Large: This unit is treated as a vehicle for stacking purposes
Anti-Air: no -1 against aircraft and it has defensive fire against aircraft
Relocate 2
Extended range 10


This is a real cheap and good unit, an anti infantry gun.


82mm PM-37

Cost: 11
Speed: 0
Defense: 3/3

AI: 3/8/8
AV: -/6/5

Indirect fire: if a friendly spotter has line of sight to an enemy soldier, this unit ignores the line of sight to that soldier.
Extended range 16----> yes SIXTEEN!!!!!
Inacurrate 1
Shrapnel 2
Relocate 2


Tjeeeeez this is also a very very good unit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! uber range and no line of sight needed with a spotter, very very good.




These 2 units make an all infantry army (an army I often use cause I dont play best armies only) almost uselless.....

Good units and good pricing. Now one week to the next preview. The 2nd german plane and the jagdpanzer IV.

[ChonChuuk]

Actually, the Large SA is for Stacking purposes, not Attacking purposes.

[Stojakovic]

Man that one unit is ugly. It needs a paint job.

[Kommandant]

Actually, the Large SA is for Stacking purposes, not Attacking purposes.

yes you are right :D

[Arontje]

Actually, the Large SA is for Stacking purposes, not Attacking purposes.

the card clearly states: This unit is treated as a vehicle for ATTACKING purposes.

[Kommandant]

the card clearly states: This unit is treated as a vehicle for ATTACKING purposes.

nope it says stacking
theres only one t there
attacking has 2

[Arontje]

nope it says stacking
theres only one t there
attacking has 2


hmmm, more ppl say it so I guess I am wrong, although I can see it good for myself. I cant enlarge the picture.

Thanks all. I will edit my post with the stats then.

[horacus]

Well, both units are MONSTERS, but well, they are not inmortal. The Jagdpanzer 4 is well done in all exept for the Vanilla color, but maybie is for the photo and we will have a Panzer 4 Ausf.g color in the miniature. And for the plane, well, it must be better than the Junquers, hope that( I don't like the SLOW SA.).

[Joisey]

I sure was hoping for a camo Jadgpanzer IV. I am really glad we are getting one, but I am not thrilled with the tan coloration. Bofors is better than I expected!
WotC are getting lazy. The minis that you'd expect to be in camo are instead getting tan---as the undercoat to an eventual camo scheme. Left unsaid is that YOU are expected to apply the other two colors!! The did the same thing with the Panzer IV G, and the Brummbar, which never even saw service in North Africa. They also should be in camo. Again, they are put in tan with the implicit message: Ya want camo, here ya go, do it yourself.

And why the Panzer II was ever put in tan I'll never figure out, since it was never sent to North Africa except maybe in token quantities. They were also out of frontline use by the time the Whermacht started painting their tanks in camo on a regular basis---1942 Eastern Front.

[Joisey]

All I can say is awesome!

8 dices against infantry upto 16 hexes WITHOUT LOS! Oh boy! Oh boy! Oh boy!

sure they're innaccurate, but they get shrapnel

Drop a spotter on a jeep, race to the front lines and POW! right in the kisser - 3 success and say bye-bye SSPG & SE Paratrooper!
Very interesting that this mortar gets modelled completely differently from all the others. It is an improvement over the prior modelling of mortars, because it is far more realistic---mortars always fired ballistically and humping all that equipment on your back you wouldn't have kept up with regular infantry in movement AND fired the weapon at the same time (since it had to be broken down to be moved) I think the other mortars will now have to be House Ruled to the new standard: Indirect fire, range 16, move in assualt phase.

[Bobsalt]

Let me see if I have this right. The mortar has a range of 16, but the Katyusha, which in real life could fire 5 or 6 kilometers, is only range 8?

This is WWII we're talking about, right?

[4242david4242]

40mm Bofors L60

This is a real cheap and good unit, a anti infantry gun and because it is treated as a vehicle a all infantry enemy will have a hard time killing it. I certainly will use this of a infantry gun instead of an aa gun.


Arontje,

The Bofors' card says:

"Large -- This unit is treated as a Vehicle for stacking purposes."

So infantry will not have a hard time killing it.

[RaidingParty]

The craziest thing is that they're both 1939 units, making them even more monstrous in early-war battles.

The Sd Kfz 222 just found a use.

[4242david4242]

Let me see if I have this right. The mortar has a range of 16, but the Katyusha, which in real life could fire 5 or 6 kilometers, is only range 8?

This is WWII we're talking about, right?

Maybe they put it in there to give the HHR something else to do. :confused:

[Joisey]

Let me see if I have this right. The mortar has a range of 16, but the Katyusha, which in real life could fire 5 or 6 kilometers, is only range 8?

This is WWII we're talking about, right?
Yes, that's right Bob. You win NAME THAT FRAPDOODLED UNIT! Thank you for playing. :D

Now where's PatrickWR to tell me the Errata "ironed out" all the problems with Set III, "more or less"?????

[Joisey]

Maybe they put it in there to give the HHR something else to do. :confused:
That would be great if we were being paid to do HHR. As it is it just makes us look like geniuses by comparison. Oh, that doesn't sound like I'm "full of myself", does it? :D

[4242david4242]

That would be great if we were being paid to do HHR. As it is it just makes us look like geniuses by comparison. Oh, that doesn't sound like I'm "full of myself", does it? :D

Well, if they ever do start paying you HHR guys, then consider the Katyusha a retroactive payraise!

[EricM 2404]

Anyone take a look at the checklist. partasins are explained.

[Arontje]

Arontje,

The Bofors' card says:

"Large -- This unit is treated as a Vehicle for stacking purposes."

So infantry will not have a hard time killing it.

Yep so i was told, so I already corrected my post.

[Grantham]

Just because the allies did swarm the germans dosnt mean their weapons where so bad they had to. The trouble we keep running into with the undercosted allied units (which i think we just got 2 more) is that unlike the real war in this one you dont stop attacking when you lose to many men their is no morale at all. Could HHR model that in?? Going to work on it myself just curious what they come up with.

[GijoeNumberOne]

Man, just when you think things can't get any more one-sided, out comes these units! Look at that Bofors, for 10 points less then the Wirbelwind, the Allies get 60% longer range and 1 die more for 75% of its total range. Why does the Wirbelwind cost 10 points more? For 3 reasons: 1- it is German, 2- it has a speed of three, and 3- it is German.

It has gotten to the point that, unless a player is a masochist who loves losing games, he (or she) will not want to play Axis. I know that if I had to play (versus not playing at all) using these cards with their dart-board stats, I will refuse to play the Axis (That ought to make my opponet change his mind ;) .)

Okay, HHR and/or Old Fart, we're counting on you to continue making this game playable, in spite of the designers (and I use that word loosely).

[Pasalades]

Actually I should note at this point that the card for the mortar says 'enhanced range' not 'extended'. Enhanced range affects soldiers as well vehicles. Ain't that great.

BTW, I for one like these units and the mechanics they have.

[Fury]

8 dices against infantry upto 16 hexes WITHOUT LOS! Oh boy! Oh boy! Oh boy!

sure they're innaccurate, but they get shrapnel


Rather say, that the infantry attack values are 6/16/16 up to 16 hexes.

Thats what this will mean in reality. Just place something to sacrifice plus a commisar next to this one. The commisar will remove the inaccurate SA and all successes will be counted double against infantry...

[Aries]

Rather say, that the infantry attack values are 6/16/16 up to 16 hexes.

Thats what this will mean in reality. Just place something to sacrifice plus a commisar next to this one. The commisar will remove the inaccurate SA and all successes will be counted double against infantry...

Just be glad (or not) the 82mm Mortar does not have Blast or Bombarment. With the FO, Katyusha and 82mm the Russians are starting to have an artillery OOB worthy of respect.

I second the comment about now the SdKfz222 has something to do. Go after Russian FOs and Artillery.

[PatrickWR]

Now where's PatrickWR to tell me the Errata "ironed out" all the problems with Set III, "more or less"?????

I'm here, I'm here! :) I'll point out a few things:

Horses can no longer drive Jeeps. Last month they could.
Flamethrowers can no longer fire straight up and torch aircraft. Last month they could.
Fixed Howitzers can no longer fire and hit airplanes in the sky. Last month they could. I stand by my comment. I also intend to enjoy the hell out of this game via houserules, and I'll stand shoulder-to-shoulder with you and Bob to do this. At no point am I going to roll over and take it, and I don't really appreciate the insinuation that I'm going to.

I'll agree that the Katyusha appears to be a monumentally unplayable piece. It hurts (a lot) that this sucker doesn't have Extended Range. It's also uber-weird that the mortars are spiralling up in power and game effect. I can count the number of times I've played Set 1 mortars on two fingers...now it seems the 82mm is an almost essential anti-infantry and anti-air piece for the Soviets...in competitive tournament play. Which I don't engage in.

WotC are getting lazy. The minis that you'd expect to be in camo are instead getting tan---as the undercoat to an eventual camo scheme. Left unsaid is that YOU are expected to apply the other two colors!! The did the same thing with the Panzer IV G, and the Brummbar, which never even saw service in North Africa. They also should be in camo. Again, they are put in tan with the implicit message: Ya want camo, here ya go, do it yourself.

And why the Panzer II was ever put in tan I'll never figure out, since it was never sent to North Africa except maybe in token quantities. They were also out of frontline use by the time the Whermacht started painting their tanks in camo on a regular basis---1942 Eastern Front.

Check your history, good sir. German vehicles were painted tan, yellow, brown and drab colors for Operation Barbarossa, for the fighting they expected to take place in the wheat fields of the Caucausus. Yellow certainly wasn't confined to North Africa.

[Mr_G]

Man, just when you think things can't get any more one-sided, out comes these units! Look at that Bofors, for 10 points less then the Wirbelwind, the Allies get 60% longer range and 1 die more for 75% of its total range. Why does the Wirbelwind cost 10 points more? For 3 reasons: 1- it is German, 2- it has a speed of three, and 3- it is German.

It has gotten to the point that, unless a player is a masochist who loves losing games, he (or she) will not want to play Axis. I know that if I had to play (versus not playing at all) using these cards with their dart-board stats, I will refuse to play the Axis (That ought to make my opponet change his mind ;) .)

Okay, HHR and/or Old Fart, we're counting on you to continue making this game playable, in spite of the designers (and I use that word loosely).

I'm with you on this one. The allies get more units than the Axis at each set. A&AM insn't the only game where the Axis are at a disadvantage; in A&A D-Day, it's practically impossible for the Axis to win. 19 times out of 20, the Allies win. :(

[Joisey]

Man, just when you think things can't get any more one-sided, out comes these units! Look at that Bofors, for 10 points less then the Wirbelwind, the Allies get 60% longer range and 1 die more for 75% of its total range. Why does the Wirbelwind cost 10 points more? For 3 reasons: 1- it is German, 2- it has a speed of three, and 3- it is German.

It has gotten to the point that, unless a player is a masochist who loves losing games, he (or she) will not want to play Axis. I know that if I had to play (versus not playing at all) using these cards with their dart-board stats, I will refuse to play the Axis (That ought to make my opponet change his mind ;) .)

Okay, HHR and/or Old Fart, we're counting on you to continue making this game playable, in spite of the designers (and I use that word loosely).
Stop! Stop! I'm getting "all full of myself"! :D

[RaidingParty]

Just be glad (or not) the 82mm Mortar does not have Blast or Bombarment. With the FO, Katyusha and 82mm the Russians are starting to have an artillery OOB worthy of respect.

I second the comment about now the SdKfz222 has something to do. Go after Russian FOs and Artillery.
I just realized the Germans have an even cheaper answer to these long-range devils. The 5-8 speed BMW motorcycle!

Now the Japanese are really falling behind. They don't stand a chance in a Russian vs. Japanese battle.

[EricM 2404]

Stop! Stop! I'm getting "all full of myself"! :D

Dude your really P'Oed about that aren't you.

[Cruizin2000]

The Allies with 19 out of 20 times in A&A D-Day, Mr. G????

I'll challenge you to a game and I'll be the Axis. Play for a steak dinner??? Mmmmm, I love steaks.

C2000

[Aries]

I just realized the Germans have an even cheaper answer to these long-range devils. The 5-8 speed BMW motorcycle!

Now the Japanese are really falling behind. They don't stand a chance in a Russian vs. Japanese battle.

Good point. The 222 still has the S/F advantage so it could survive more often and move quicker as it could move, strike and advance.

[Mr_G]

The Allies with 19 out of 20 times in A&A D-Day, Mr. G????

I'll challenge you to a game and I'll be the Axis. Play for a steak dinner??? Mmmmm, I love steaks.

C2000

Well, I've never seen the Axis win in that game, but if you have any secrets to it, then, by all means, tell them; I'm listening! ;)

[Joisey]

Dude your really P'Oed about that aren't you.
Nah, I'm just showing I don't take myself that seriously. :)

[fifleche]

I just realized the Germans have an even cheaper answer to these long-range devils. The 5-8 speed BMW motorcycle!I totally agree for the Katyusha. But the mortars will stay far back, and in cover, which the motorcycle can't penetrate because of "thin wheels" SA...

[RaidingParty]

Good point. The 222 still has the S/F advantage so it could survive more often and move quicker as it could move, strike and advance.
True that. I like the S/F, but the 222 is pathetic in most other cases. At least with the BMW, you have the option of Close Assault without taking defensive fire. Here's my take on some of the units:

Bofors vs Wirbelwind: The Bofors gets Enhanced Range and is 10 points cheaper, but the Wirbelwind can move in the movement phase, and is not vulnerable to snipers and MGs.

Soviet 82mm vs BMW: Beamer wins on most maps. Its Thin Wheels only affect its ability to cross rivers and marshes, so it can chase almost any infantry anywhere. To save the 82mm, the Soviets will have to use an 8-point Forward Observer to kill a 5-point bike, or they must put up an infantry screen.

Katyusha + Partisans: I hope that Partisans come cheap, because they'll be great at tying up infantry for my Rocket Salvo.

[Canadian_Pride33]

Well for most German vechiles the base coat was a tan colour. Iam not sure that WotC is trying to depicted this or they have losted some creativity in putting some camo on the tanks. I know the bummbar never served in north Africa, but some may say it was put on for the cacusaus(corret my spelling) front. But the Jagdpanzer with its tan coat is interesting because at the Canadian war museum in Ottawa, the jagdpanzer they have there is in the tan colour that WotC has chosen.interesting. did the germans get lazy by the end of the war or are these camo choices incorrect?

[Stojakovic]

Either way... time to bust out my paint and brushes... boomshakalaka.

[Stealth]

Just because its in tan/sand doesn't mean thats it was in North Africa. Beginning about 1942-ish, most East Front tanks were a base of Dark Yellow (DunkenGelb) with a camo of chocolate or dark green. The cam was not always applied. This color scheme was intended to make the tank blend in with the summer grain of the Russian fields.

-Stealth

WotC are getting lazy. The minis that you'd expect to be in camo are instead getting tan---as the undercoat to an eventual camo scheme. Left unsaid is that YOU are expected to apply the other two colors!! The did the same thing with the Panzer IV G, and the Brummbar, which never even saw service in North Africa. They also should be in camo. Again, they are put in tan with the implicit message: Ya want camo, here ya go, do it yourself.

And why the Panzer II was ever put in tan I'll never figure out, since it was never sent to North Africa except maybe in token quantities. They were also out of frontline use by the time the Whermacht started painting their tanks in camo on a regular basis---1942 Eastern Front.

[MektonZero]

All I can say is awesome!

8 dices against infantry upto 16 hexes WITHOUT LOS! Oh boy! Oh boy! Oh boy!

sure they're innaccurate, but they get shrapnel

Drop a spotter on a jeep, race to the front lines and POW! right in the kisser - 3 success and say bye-bye SSPG & SE Paratrooper!

Throwing away a Jeep worth 4 points and a FO worth 9 points would be a pretty high price to make one attack with a 50% chance of killing a SSPG worth 5 points.

[NEVjr]

Very interesting that this mortar gets modelled completely differently from all the others. It is an improvement over the prior modelling of mortars, because it is far more realistic---mortars always fired ballistically and humping all that equipment on your back you wouldn't have kept up with regular infantry in movement AND fired the weapon at the same time (since it had to be broken down to be moved) I think the other mortars will now have to be House Ruled to the new standard: Indirect fire, range 16, move in assualt phase.
this is a huge mortar, the average light mortar like we have modeled wouldnt have a range of 1600 yards, but they should have indirect fire

[Tico303]

Basing on the info presented here about Long-Range Indirect Fire Artillery: Let's speculate about the consequeces.

The new Artillery pieces seem to be a real long range Infantry killer, as long as there's a spotter unit around.

So let's speculate: What counter-tactics are available against this threat?

Just taking cover behind some trees probably won't work. Killing the spotter unit will probably be very important - but they are fast movers, some could even retreat using SA strike and fade. The better option would be to kill the artillery itself, probably using Paradrops, Aircraft or ... your own Artillery. Provoking an enemy into an artillery duel could take some of the heat of your infantry / tank strike force. So the light spotter units would get real precious assets on a battlefield an a loss could turn into a disaster (loosing up to 8 hexes or 4-8 turns of firing against advancing enemy units).

The artillery-duel option will of course only work as long as your side / country has it's own long range unit available.

[NEVjr]

Just because its in tan/sand doesn't mean thats it was in North Africa. Beginning about 1942-ish, most East Front tanks were a base of Dark Yellow (DunkenGelb) with a camo of chocolate or dark green. The cam was not always applied. This color scheme was intended to make the tank blend in with the summer grain of the Russian fields.

-Stealth
they are lazy, we have nice camo on the *** stuff, but we get both the tiger and king tiger in grey, i cant say ive ever seen a picture of a king tiger in monotone anything, except primer red, and everything else german in tan, which should get some kind of paterning applied, even a simple texture colour:
http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/small/jagdpanzeriv_aclark1.jpg

[Zhukov]

Let me see if I have this right. The mortar has a range of 16, but the Katyusha, which in real life could fire 5 or 6 kilometers, is only range 8?

This is WWII we're talking about, right?
This is a crazy game thats not supposed to completely mimic history that were talking about. Nice thing you pointed out still. Joisey you mentioned the camo that is proably if anything hte other thing I dont like about AAM. I want my tanks grey not tan unless we start getting detailed desert maps. Also oh baby I do think these new units are pretty sweet yo and are kick.

[PatrickWR]

Killing the spotter unit will probably be very important - but they are fast movers, some could even retreat using SA strike and fade. The better option would be to kill the artillery itself, probably using Paradrops, Aircraft or ... your own Artillery. Provoking an enemy into an artillery duel could take some of the heat of your infantry / tank strike force. So the light spotter units would get real precious assets on a battlefield an a loss could turn into a disaster (loosing up to 8 hexes or 4-8 turns of firing against advancing enemy units).

I think killing the spotter will be the pin that makes this whole strategy unravel. The Red Army Observer is Defense 3/3, which makes him easy prey for long-ranged killers like snipers and MGs.

The American Forward Observer Jeep will almost certainly be Defense 1/1 (because he's in a Jeep) but he'll be able to scoot around the battlefield. To chase him down, I recommend a Sd Kfz 222 or one of the cheapy Axis tanks (Romanian R-2, Panzer II/III, etc).

Spotters are going to be very vulnerable, methinks.

[MektonZero]

The artillery-duel option will of course only work as long as your side / country has it's own long range unit available.

It would be foolish to expose your artillery so you would have 2 hexes of cover between it and the enemy. The only way enemy artillery should be shooting at your artillery at long range in most situations is if an enemy spotter is adjacent to it. At least for the moment, any bets on how long we have to wait before a spotter aircraft is introduced?

[MektonZero]

The American Forward Observer Jeep will almost certainly be Defense 1/1 (because he's in a Jeep) but he'll be able to scoot around the battlefield. To chase him down, I recommend a Sd Kfz 222 or one of the cheapy Axis tanks (Romanian R-2, Panzer II/III, etc).

Or just drop a Stuka near it for a 64% chance of an kill, assuming the jeep is in cover otherwise the Jeep will be dead 96.5% of the time. The Stuka will be attacking from 4 hexes so it will be nearly impossible to disrupt the Stuka before firing. If there aren't any nearby AA units, attacking at range 0 gives a 82.5% chance of a kill if the Jeep is in cover.

[wpchen]

I wonder if the FO jeep will be able to fire? It probably won't be able to transport, I think, but I'm not sure about firing, seeing as the Russian FO is able to fire.

[MektonZero]

I wonder if the FO jeep will be able to fire? It probably won't be able to transport, I think, but I'm not sure about firing, seeing as the Russian FO is able to fire.

Given that FO is going to cost some points already, adding in more point for an attack ability that shouldn't ever be used is just going to overcost it. Then again, American units tend to be overcosted anyway so if it happens I won't be terribly surprised. :D

[NorthernRommel]

Then again, American units tend to be overcosted anyway so if it happens I won't be terribly surprised. :D

You should be working on WOTCs design team. :) (Note Sarcasm)

[Autarch]

Given that FO is going to cost some points already, adding in more point for an attack ability that shouldn't ever be used is just going to overcost it. Then again, American units tend to be overcosted anyway so if it happens I won't be terribly surprised. :D

ITYM undercosted, so it'll have a 9/9/7 vs Soldier and Superior Camouflage SA...

[MektonZero]

ITYM undercosted, so it'll have a 9/9/7 vs Soldier and Superior Camouflage SA...

Oops, typo. Meant undercosted. My apologies to anyone I confused. :)

[polish_horsy]

I think killing the spotter will be the pin that makes this whole strategy unravel. The Red Army Observer is Defense 3/3, which makes him easy prey for long-ranged killers like snipers and MGs.

Spotters are going to be very vulnerable, methinks.

methinks you can do some goooood spottin' from the back of a KV-1.

[Fury]

I think killing the spotter will be the pin that makes this whole strategy unravel. The Red Army Observer is Defense 3/3, which makes him easy prey for long-ranged killers like snipers and MGs.

Spotters are going to be very vulnerable, methinks.

Well, many of the Red Army tanks have transport. The spotter will not be that vulnerable then, and will also be able to move quite fast across the field.

[Autarch]

"What comrade? I can't hear those coordinates. It sounds like your riding on the back of a tank!"

lol

[XAos]

Throwing away a Jeep worth 4 points and a FO worth 9 points would be a pretty high price to make one attack with a 50% chance of killing a SSPG worth 5 points.
Jeep...? Jeeps are american.
All pure russian FO's ride a KV-1. :D
I doubt the KV-1 will be at serious risk while the FO targets an SS-PG.
And an sdkfx-222 ordered to hunt the FO will go AWOL, rather than face the KV-1.

[Vulturedoodle]

That would be great if we were being paid to do HHR. As it is it just makes us look like geniuses by comparison. Oh, that doesn't sound like I'm "full of myself", does it? :D
Being full of oneself, to me, sounds better than the most commonly used alternative for being full of something. :)

--SEF

[MektonZero]

Jeep...? Jeeps are american.
All pure russian FO's ride a KV-1. :D
I doubt the KV-1 will be at serious risk while the FO targets an SS-PG.
And an sdkfx-222 ordered to hunt the FO will go AWOL, rather than face the KV-1.

Let's see, a 32 point tank carring a 9 point FO. Sounds like a good target for a couple of point blank stuka attacks to me. :)

10 Dice, defense 6. Looking good. 61% chance that I at least disrupt your KV-1 4 hexes from my forces making it easy killing by my forces next turn.

Pure russians don't have any AA units. :D