82 + Commissar = Dead Plane!

[CommisarNikolai]

the 82 with its range and the FO and a commissar will make planes very nervous on the map. There are just so many dice rolling it will be bound to score a hit.

[4242david4242]

especially if that Commissar is on top of a KV-1.

[dracos42]

the 82 with its range and the FO and a commissar will make planes very nervous on the map. There are just so many dice rolling it will be bound to score a hit.

The FO shouldn't affect the 82's attack vs. planes. With regards to mortars affecting planes, I view it more as an unlucky plane flying through an artillery barrage. I'll have to look when I get home, but the old Assault game series even has rules for helicopter/artillery interactions.

I used to live in Suffolk, in the old city. It has been 3 years since moving away. :( :mad:

Michael

[Rolgan]

especially if that Commissar is on top of a KV-1.

Encircled by Kuomintang Riflemen and Fan. snipers.

~C

[RaidingParty]

The FO's ability doesn't do anything against Aircraft, and the Shrapnel SA only work on Soldiers.

I don't see the 82mm taking down planes any time soon. It's an expensive combination (82mm + Commissar + sacrificial lamb = 18+ points) to take a shot at a plane, and the odds are still bad.

Besides, the Bofors is cheaper and much more dangerous at a range of 10.

[Aries]

FO's ability doesn't do anything against Aircraft

The Indirect SA only works against Soldiers. Aircraft and Vehicles cannot be targetted using an FO and Indirect Fire.

[Mr_G]

the 82 with its range and the FO and a commissar will make planes very nervous on the map. There are just so many dice rolling it will be bound to score a hit.

Have you even tried to fire on a 4 defense unit with 8 dice and -1 on the roll? not as easy a thing to do as you make it out to be. I wouldn't want to waste turns (+ the wasted units with the commissar) trying to hit that plane when I can have true antiair.

[CommisarNikolai]

In my excitement at being given such wonderful gifts as a Russian player I became over excited by the indirect fire SA. Still 16 hexes to take a pot shot at a plane with 8 dice at -1 for a 26% chance at 1 hit and against a disrupted plane 53% of 1 hit. If there are no good targets left (as I have killed all of your infantry by turn 4 :D) I would take the shot vs. wasting the attack against a vehicle.

[CommisarNikolai]

I have done this many times. Actually 25% of the time. And Name 1 Russian unit that can hit a plane 16 hexes away besides the 82mm.

[EricM 2404]

You don't need line of sight to hit a plane 8 dice at-1+1(for commisar) Is roughly 50% chance of disruption, thats good in my book Knock out a plane while you waight for that FO to get in to cover

[Der Leiter]

the 82 with its range and the FO and a commissar will make planes very nervous on the map. There are just so many dice rolling it will be bound to score a hit.

There's much much better.

8 dice hitting on a 5+ vs an aircraft is pretty bad. Drop the FO, and go with the Bofors a total of 10 less points and at worst 9 dice hitting on a 3+.

[NEVjr]

You don't need line of sight to hit a plane 8 dice at-1+1(for commisar) Is roughly 50% chance of disruption, thats good in my book Knock out a plane while you waight for that FO to get in to cover
inaccurate, so to beat the odds of the bofors on a 4/4 plane, you need the mortar, 11 points, the commisar, 5 points, and 3 infantry at minimum 2 points each, as there is the -1 for aircraft, the -1 for inaccurate, and it needs to roll 3+ to beat the bofors at 10 hexes, giving you 22 points for one shot, which could get you 2 bofors and an M1 rifle

[dracos42]

My dream is to have a combo of the 82mm mortar, the 40mm Bofors, and the US quad 50 cal. Now that's firepower. :D Sure, the combo may be vulnerable and pricey, but should also be a lot of fun.

I dug out my old Assault game, an 80's game of platoon-level combat between NATO and the Warsaw Pact. Helicopters could be low to the ground and treated like ground units, or higher up and flying like, well, aircraft. Friendly indirect fire missions had to be cancelled on turns that friendly helicopter units were flying at altitude. And if friendly indirect fire missions were currently in progress, all friendly helos had to remain low to the ground. Also, helos at low level could be hit by indirect fire, accidently or otherwise.

Also, in reading accounts of amphibious assaults, I've noticed that aircraft didn't operate in the same zones where the naval guns were bombarding. So I am assuming that if a mortar gets a hit on a plane, it is the result of an accidental meeting between mortar shell and plane. Or the plane was too low when the shells arrived.

Anyone thought of adding early helicopters to the game? I've got the Assault rules to start from...

Michael

[NEVjr]

My dream is to have a combo of the 82mm mortar, the 40mm Bofors, and the US quad 50 cal. Now that's firepower. :D Sure, the combo may be vulnerable and pricey, but should also be a lot of fun.

I dug out my old Assault game, an 80's game of platoon-level combat between NATO and the Warsaw Pact. Helicopters could be low to the ground and treated like ground units, or higher up and flying like, well, aircraft. Friendly indirect fire missions had to be cancelled on turns that friendly helicopter units were flying at altitude. And if friendly indirect fire missions were currently in progress, all friendly helos had to remain low to the ground. Also, helos at low level could be hit by indirect fire, accidently or otherwise.

Also, in reading accounts of amphibious assaults, I've noticed that aircraft didn't operate in the same zones where the naval guns were bombarding. So I am assuming that if a mortar gets a hit on a plane, it is the result of an accidental meeting between mortar shell and plane. Or the plane was too low when the shells arrived.

Anyone thought of adding early helicopters to the game? I've got the Assault rules to start from...

Michael
helis didnt get past prototype by the end of the war

[CommisarNikolai]

There's much much better.

8 dice hitting on a 5+ vs an aircraft is pretty bad. Drop the FO, and go with the Bofors a total of 10 less points and at worst 9 dice hitting on a 3+.

Not for a PURE Russian army. My campaign group plays pure armies and year restrictions. So no Bofors for the Russians.

[MektonZero]

Not for a PURE Russian army. My campaign group plays pure armies and year restrictions. So no Bofors for the Russians.

Well a PURE Russian army in reality would have access to lots of dfifferent kinds of AA units, unfortunately A&AM is a game and hasn't released every unit that the PURE Russian army actually had. So until then you make a realistic comprimise rather than using 82mm mortars as dedicated Anti-aircraft units.

And after lend lease started, there wasn't anything PURE about the Russian army OOB anyway.

[NightMoor]

The FO's ability doesn't do anything against Aircraft, and the Shrapnel SA only work on Soldiers.

I don't see the 82mm taking down planes any time soon. It's an expensive combination (82mm + Commissar + sacrificial lamb = 18+ points) to take a shot at a plane, and the odds are still bad.

Besides, the Bofors is cheaper and much more dangerous at a range of 10.

That's not the point. The point is that the mortar is quite solid against regular infantry, but by total accident is also very good against planes when a Commisar is around. It's a continuation of the annoyance of having way too many things work well against planes to make any sense historically.

[PatrickWR]

That's not the point. The point is that the mortar is quite solid against regular infantry, but by total accident is also very good against planes when a Commisar is around. It's a continuation of the annoyance of having way too many things work well against planes to make any sense historically.

I wouldn't say "very good"...it's still hitting on 5's with only 8 dice at long range.

[MektonZero]

I wouldn't say "very good"...it's still hitting on 5's with only 8 dice at long range.

2 Mortars under Bravery Enforcement have a 20% chance to kill a Stuka at a range of nearly a mile and another 25% chance of disrupting it, I'd say that is "superb" considering that no other unit in the game can engage an aircraft at more than 12 hexes. :o

[Wayfarer]

Hi, I have to say that a 82mm mortar targeting a plane is just like a flamethrower targeting a plane, shouldn't be possible if the plane isn't parked on an airfield or flown by an idiot who flies the plane into the mortar bomb... you'd have to be the most unlucky person in the universe to have your plane hit by a mortar bomb... think even the flamethrower should have a higher probability of hitting a plane than a mortar.

[Remember-OWS-]

Another Errata on this subject I guess!

[MektonZero]

Hi, I have to say that a 82mm mortar targeting a plane is just like a flamethrower targeting a plane, shouldn't be possible if the plane isn't parked on an airfield or flown by an idiot who flies the plane into the mortar bomb... you'd have to be the most unlucky person in the universe to have your plane hit by a mortar bomb... think even the flamethrower should have a higher probability of hitting a plane than a mortar.

I agree, I'm surprised that they didn't add "This unit cannot attack aircaft." to the Indirect SA like they did for Bombardment.

[Remember-OWS-]

I agree, I'm surprised that they didn't add "This unit cannot attack aircaft." to the Indirect SA like they did for Bombardment.

They did for the Indirect Sir!

If I read correctly:

Indirect Fire - If a friendly Spotter is withing four hexes of a enemy soldier and have line of sight to it, this unit's attack against that soldier ignores line of sight.

[Mr_G]

They did for the Indirect Sir!

If I read correctly:

Indirect Fire - If a friendly Spotter is withing four hexes of a enemy soldier and have line of sight to it, this unit's attack against that soldier ignores line of sight.

Indirect fire SA is useless against planes anyway. Remember that planes do not use the LOS rules to fire at or to be fired at.

[Arontje]

If you have inacurrate, then you hit on 5+.....

If you then also target a plane you hit on 6+


So if you use a commissar and then target the plane with the new russian unit you hit on a 5+. I dont think it will be so bad because he probably have better targets.

[MektonZero]

They did for the Indirect Sir!

If I read correctly:

Indirect Fire - If a friendly Spotter is withing four hexes of a enemy soldier and have line of sight to it, this unit's attack against that soldier ignores line of sight.

Extended Range 16 is what allows them to fire, attacks to and from aircraft ignore Line of Sight.

[dredlox]

I apologize for reposting this topic, I didnt know it had already come up.

Sometimes with minis, seems to me, what seems only a moderate strat is much better when used in force. In this case, if you are gonna play 1 mortar, a commisar and some mkts, i'd play 2 mortars (at least). 2 both gaining that commisar bonus for 2 points loss is huge.