German pros and cons.

[Grantham]

Judgeing by the posts of late their is a debait about the uses of various nations units. While the allies do have sevral easy to find combos that are very good vs all types of axis builds how good of an army can you build useing the axis? The preveiling winds talk of useing the Puma and Mk IV D but i think both of those are handicaped by low defense and the low AI dice of the Puma. German Infantry 1 3x Snipers / 2x haup/ 1x OberLT/ 8x SSPG for a hundred points

[Mr_G]

I find the Pumas to be good flankers. They worked quite well with my jagdpanzer and panthers. Used well and around roads, the low low defense of the Puma means nothing if he can scuttle away from LOS.

As for the low armor of the panzer4D, sure it will get destroyed by more efficient(1942/43 and later) tanks, but I think they are meant to fire from cover. Place 2 or 3 of them in cover areas and you can protect a relatively large zone from vehicles. If your opponent advances a vehicle there, it will get wrecked, if he decides to wait or to take a longer route around your panzers, this buys time for your infantry to position themselves.

[Joisey]

Plus the Panzer IV D can shoot eight dice at plus one from 8 hexes away. If the IV D is in cover, that's a pretty effective long range shooter against medium defense armor (five or less) that will probably only take a disruption in return.

[Lotus]

Plus the Panzer IV D can shoot eight dice at plus one from 8 hexes away. If the IV D is in cover, that's a pretty effective long range shooter against medium defense armor (five or less) that will probably only take a disruption in return.

Not to mention that the Germans finally have an effective tank against infantry, and one that can hit planes like it has the AA ability. Gotta love that.

[Predator666]

I think that the germans are better in larger point games where you can field a good amount of effective armor, infantry and AA or aircraft. But not to much point advantage so that Americans can field overwhelming numbers. If you add a good mix of anti tank/anti infanty it helps. Plus there is now a good number of cheap anti tank units that you will be able to field many with some W. ober. to help take out even some of the best allied tanks.

[Joisey]

I think that the germans are better in larger point games where you can field a good amount of effective armor, infantry and AA or aircraft. But not to much point advantage so that Americans can field overwhelming numbers. If you add a good mix of anti tank/anti infanty it helps. Plus there is now a good number of cheap anti tank units that you will be able to field many with some W. ober. to help take out even some of the best allied tanks.
Keeping that in mind, what do you think is the "sweetspot" for the GErmans in terms of point build? 150? 200? 250? I think at 300 you'd be hitting up against that "overwhelming" Americans problem

[Wraith_calling]

I think going with 150pts would give the Germans the best options to make use of thier equipment. You could put together a good combination of tanks and infantry, and would help offset the high cost of German armor. It would also help offset the numbers advantage the Americans would have if they had face mutliple German tanks with proper infantry and anti-air support.

-Wraith

[polish_horsy]

Germany has... what... 10 kinds of non-command infantry? It's kind of sad but if you are trying to win 80-90% of the infantry used should be of 1 kind only.

[Richter von Manthofen]

Games should be fun, so in a non competitive envireonmet, I try to build armies consisting of different units. this works good for germany and US builds With Set III UK, and russia will become fun too. Japan still lacks the firepower for large battles...

[Canuck_Captain]

Germany can field more heavy tanks in larger games but the allies can field more...

its all about quality over quantity...1 Tiger I = 63, 3 shermans 63pts

three shots to one but you can still have better chances with the Tiger if you support it correctly.

The P4D is one of the best new German tanks, Like Joisy said its good against almost everything...

I dont just use SSPG like Polish Horsy implied, usually a combination of SSPG,MG42 and blackshirts usually round out the infantry I use, even use RO grenadiers from time to time but they are too expensive...

Played a 300pt game with an almost all russian army against an all german army and it came down to 4 pts I won by...

Katyasha was definately one of the stars of the game taking out
4-5 SSPG, 1 Haup and a couple of MG and Mausers... I used the S.A. and it killed 4 guys in one turn...

My mortar also did well,not to much in the first rounds where my FO was on my KV-1 and he killed a MG and a bunch of SSPG and a panzershreck...

I still have no aircraft :( even my neighbor got a Zero...

But Ive got 2 Pershings, 1 I traded for a Comet and the new M36 and many others...
and finally got a P4D which IMO is one of the best tanks in the game...

[XAos]

I find the Pumas to be good flankers. They worked quite well with my jagdpanzer and panthers. Used well and around roads, the low low defense of the Puma means nothing if he can scuttle away from LOS.

As for the low armor of the panzer4D, sure it will get destroyed by more efficient(1942/43 and later) tanks, but I think they are meant to fire from cover.
Main limit on the Puma, is that it only has S&F:1. So to scuttle away, it needs to be on a road or in a town. With the exception of the Urban Map that only allows effective use of 1 Puma. A "Puma swarm" would find itself without enough places to hide. The Puma also has the problem that at 23pts & defense:2 it's well worth "kamikazeing" a Mustang to kill it.

Shermans are better than Pz-IV's at moving from cover to cover. i.e. speed:4 can cross bigger gaps to get onto a hill hex. And the Rhino has no movement rolls in forest. Or if the Pz-ID's setup in cover & don't move. The obvious reponse is wait for turn:7 (when the axis have to advance). So I'm not sure why you think the axis will get cover but the allies won't... ;)

[Predator666]

I play more 250-300 pt games. I did a 300 pt game and the only armor I had was a jagdpanther, nashorn, and king tiger and i took out an Easy Eight, Pershing, M3 Lee, and a hellcat with not even taking a disruption on the King Tiger until right before my opponent surrendered. Along with those I fielded a small amount of AA, 1 ss commander, 2 SS-PG, 2 SS Stormtroopers, Me-109, and an MG-42, it was an effective, anti-tank, anti-infantry force that could deal with everything my opponent threw at me. If a Pershing cant take me out at medium range, I don't think a sherman will have to much chance taking out the armor at short range, even if its hugely overwhelming, you could always trade the Nashorn in for a Stuka and Puma or other effective anti-Tank units if need be.

[PatrickWR]

are good at playing defensively, allowing the enemy to come at them. On "deep" maps (3x3 or larger) they can continually fall back, making ample use of Extended Range as the enemy closes.

Unfortunately, their light armor units are essentially unplayable now...any Allied player would gladly trade a P-51 for a Nashorn.

[Mr_G]

Main limit on the Puma, is that it only has S&F:1. So to scuttle away, it needs to be on a road or in a town. With the exception of the Urban Map that only allows effective use of 1 Puma. A "Puma swarm" would find itself without enough places to hide. The Puma also has the problem that at 23pts & defense:2 it's well worth "kamikazeing" a Mustang to kill it.

Shermans are better than Pz-IV's at moving from cover to cover. i.e. speed:4 can cross bigger gaps to get onto a hill hex. And the Rhino has no movement rolls in forest. Or if the Pz-ID's setup in cover & don't move. The obvious reponse is wait for turn:7 (when the axis have to advance). So I'm not sure why you think the axis will get cover but the allies won't... ;)

Keep your tanks on the roads the only way to use it's S&F SA effectively and to get cover without getting stuck. As for the planes, these things don't scare me. Sure, taken one unit for one, a 23 pts for 15 pts tradeoff is not profitable, but remember that there are more than 2 units on the board. The real kill count is done at the end of the battle. I know better than not putting my vehicles in cover in the first turn now that planes are out.

[Mr_G]

Main limit on the Puma, is that it only has S&F:1. So to scuttle away, it needs to be on a road or in a town. With the exception of the Urban Map that only allows effective use of 1 Puma. A "Puma swarm" would find itself without enough places to hide. The Puma also has the problem that at 23pts & defense:2 it's well worth "kamikazeing" a Mustang to kill it.

Shermans are better than Pz-IV's at moving from cover to cover. i.e. speed:4 can cross bigger gaps to get onto a hill hex. And the Rhino has no movement rolls in forest. Or if the Pz-ID's setup in cover & don't move. The obvious reponse is wait for turn:7 (when the axis have to advance). So I'm not sure why you think the axis will get cover but the allies won't... ;)

Also, there is more to cover than woods: hills and urban areas are common too.