lol, KV-1 Stat Card!

[Zhukov]

I noticed this a few months back but finally remembered to post it.

On the stat card for the KV-1 the year says 1942.
In the flavor text it says on 19 August 1941...
Shouldnt its year be 1941??!?!?
:D

[Stojakovic]

guffaw :D

[Lynx7725]

Not really. The Nashorn favour text, for example, cite a combat experience in '43 but it's a '44 unit. And the PAK 40 is a '40 standard PanzerabwherKannone, but it's a '42 unit. Same for the PAK 38.

I believe what is intended is the year in which significant numbers reached the frontline to make a difference.

[Zhukov]

Not really. The Nashorn favour text, for example, cite a combat experience in '43 but it's a '44 unit. And the PAK 40 is a '40 standard PanzerabwherKannone, but it's a '42 unit. Same for the PAK 38.

I believe what is intended is the year in which significant numbers reached the frontline to make a difference.
Not sure why the not really for I just think its funny but It makes sense. Yet still the KV-1 stat card says Lt. Zinovity Kolobanov destroyed 22 German Tanks at Krasnogvardeysk in his KV-1. His tank was hit 135 times during the firefight, but not one German shell penetrated the tank's heavy armor.

It was clearly in combat in 41 so why give it 42?

[NEVjr]

it is perhaps a different model of kv-1

[Lynx7725]

Because there weren't enough KV-1 in combat units to make a difference 'till '42? Or not enough combat units are at the frontlines 'till '42? Russia is a big place after all, it takes time to shift units around.

Honestly, it's not when a unit is first available that's important -- if that's the case we would have ME262 in, say, '41. It's really when the numbers that reached the frontline became significant.

[Uncle_Joe]

Because there weren't enough KV-1 in combat units to make a difference 'till '42? Or not enough combat units are at the frontlines 'till '42? Russia is a big place after all, it takes time to shift units around.

Heheh, so then the sIG-33 should probably have a date of 'Never' then. ;)There were only a dozen of one model built and less the 40 of the earlier model. This would have been a rarest of the rare type of vehicle.

According to the 'Bible', the KV-1 was available from 1940 on, with M41 models hitting right around the start of Barbarossa. The final M42 model was available in mid 42. So its interesting that they made it a '42 unit when the vast bulk of the KV-1s served earlier. Perhaps it is supposed to be the KV-1S which entered service in 42, but then that one should not have a 6 armor factor (since it had reduced armor to make it lighter).

So who knows? Perhaps its a misprint or perhaps they just wanted to space the vehicles out over the years a little bit to make restriction by date mean a little more.

[horacus]

Actually the KV-1 was fabricated during 1941, put it is too advantageous for the USSR if it fields in that year.

[Lynx7725]

Good call on the sIG-33. And I agree heartily, it should have a date of "Never" -- and so should a lot of units (like the Puma, or the Pershing, or the Chaffee). But it would be a pretty boring game without them.

It's not just whether the production models are available, you've got to see where the distribution is. If most of the KV-1 are facing Japanese troops, then they aren't really availalble in Barbarossa -- have to rush them across the country, y'know? Not to mention Barbarossa for all intents and purposes caught the Russians with their pants around their knees.

IIRC, Stalin did park a significant number of units facing the Japanese troops. Not many books talk about it, preferring to concentrate on the Eastern Front (the other Eastern Front...). But had Japan been.. well, friendlier, it's really doubtful the Barbarossa could have been pulled off that well initially, since more of these units would have been facing the Germans -- or invading Germany. Stalin wasn't exactly a good boy, after all.

Note that I'm not sure where all the KV-1 are in '41. But from what little I've read, the KV-1 weren't utilized that heavily in '41, for whatever reasons.

The other obvious answer is of course Game Balance, but I shall not go into that. :)

[Richter von Manthofen]

I too think its a game balance issue for some units.

[Cruizin2000]

What about the Chaffee card? It's says 1945 but they were in use in mid/late 1944. I'm not really sure how they determine the dates for the cards.

C2000

[666]

Another example of ahistorical date on card is SS Panther Ausf G, SS units recieved first Panthers (Ausf D2 and A) in early 1944, but version G was availiable in late 1944.

[Strebe]

Good call on the sIG-33. And I agree heartily, it should have a date of "Never" -- and so should a lot of units (like the Puma, or the Pershing, or the Chaffee). But it would be a pretty boring game without them.

It's not just whether the production models are available, you've got to see where the distribution is. If most of the KV-1 are facing Japanese troops, then they aren't really availalble in Barbarossa -- have to rush them across the country, y'know? Not to mention Barbarossa for all intents and purposes caught the Russians with their pants around their knees.

IIRC, Stalin did park a significant number of units facing the Japanese troops. Not many books talk about it, preferring to concentrate on the Eastern Front (the other Eastern Front...). But had Japan been.. well, friendlier, it's really doubtful the Barbarossa could have been pulled off that well initially, since more of these units would have been facing the Germans -- or invading Germany. Stalin wasn't exactly a good boy, after all.

Note that I'm not sure where all the KV-1 are in '41. But from what little I've read, the KV-1 weren't utilized that heavily in '41, for whatever reasons.

The other obvious answer is of course Game Balance, but I shall not go into that. :)
from

http://www.battlefield.ru/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=46&Itemid=50&lang=en

At the beginning of the Great Partiotic War the Red Army possessed 639 KV-1 tanks. In 1941 the KV-1 heavy tank was able to destroy any German tank. There are some accounts when a single KV-1 tank delayed whole German armies for days.

[sardukar]

The Red Army used KV-1 tanks against Finland in the Winter War 1939-1940. It wasn’t the most commonly used tank but it was there.

There are several years that seem strange and I think that it's because of bad research. Remember that AAM is supposed to be a simple game so there is bound to be some error along the way. The years don't bother me since it isn't obligatory to play year restricted battles.

[Canuck_Captain]

I noticed this a few months back but finally remembered to post it.

On the stat card for the KV-1 the year says 1942.
In the flavor text it says on 19 August 1941...
Shouldnt its year be 1941??!?!?
:D

It might be like a car, you can get a car in 2006 that was made in 2005 but is still called a 06

Also like said it would take time to get the units to the frontlines...

[Stojakovic]

it is perhaps a different model of kv-1

I am going with this guy. Was there not a A, B, C model of the Kv-1? I always thought there was.

[AATigers1]

Yes and the Panther is 43 as is the Nashorn is 43.

[Canuck_Captain]

I noticed this a few months back but finally remembered to post it.

On the stat card for the KV-1 the year says 1942.
In the flavor text it says on 19 August 1941...
Shouldnt its year be 1941??!?!?
:D

Maybe it didnt see battle until 1942, like a car you can get a 2006 car that was made in september of 2005...

[Joisey]

Not really. The Nashorn favour text, for example, cite a combat experience in '43 but it's a '44 unit. And the PAK 40 is a '40 standard PanzerabwherKannone, but it's a '42 unit. Same for the PAK 38.

I believe what is intended is the year in which significant numbers reached the frontline to make a difference.
The Nashorn card is completely wrong. Nashorns took part in the battle of Kursk in July 1943! They should absolutely be considered to have a 1943 service date.

Likewise, the particular model of Puma we have wasn't fielded until late 1944, but the card says 1943---again, utterly wrong, that particular turreted model was only on a blueprint in 1943.