A new unit?

[Generaloberst_Beck]

Hello, I am new around here but I have been playing A&A:M for some time.

Because of me being Spanish I was wondering if it was planned to include in any new expansion set a unit representing the Spanish volunteer corps that fough in the Soviet Union along with the germans.

[fifleche]

I sure hope spain is represented :cool:

I would have liked the game to start a bit earlier than 1939, personally. Perhaps 1935, with the Japan-China war, the first Russo-Japanese clashes in Manchuria, Italy vs Ethiopia and of course the Spanish Civil war, where ppl from all over Europe fought. French, British, Irish, Russian, German, Italian, etc etc...

[Generaloberst_Beck]

I would have liked the game to start a bit earlier than 1939, personally.

Axis&Allies:Miniatures Set -I "The Phantom Germans" :D

[Predator666]

It would be kinda cool, it might happen in later sets when they get done with all of the main countries fighting in the war and maybe come out with some more nations that helped the germans in the war.

[Kommandant]

i would personally love to see the spaniards :D
in a&am, because my grandfather fought for the germans

[MektonZero]

It would be kinda cool, it might happen in later sets when they get done with all of the main countries fighting in the war and maybe come out with some more nations that helped the germans in the war.

They're doing it now. They've already got a Minor Country Soldier, Anti-Tank Gun, Officer and Tank. :)

There might be some interest in a Korean War expansion set.

[Joisey]

If I were going to recreate the Spanish Civil War, I'd take Italian Fucilo Modelos and name them Nationalists/Fascists and then I'd take the Chinese rifles and name them Republicans/Commies. Throw in Pzr II's, Pak 38's, German mortars, Italian officer and Bf 109's for the facists and Polish tanks, commie partisans, 6 pd'er ATG, Russian mortar and F.O., and chinese MG's and Chi officer for the commies.

To reflect the Spanish terrain, make sure your maps include lots and lots of hills.

Edit: To represent the numerous "volunteer" formations sent by Italy, Germany, and Russia, use Black Shirts, Mausers, and Moisin Nagants respectively, but they should never number more than 20% of a force total. Consider the commie partisans to be the "International Brigades" that fought for the Rupublicans.

[Richter von Manthofen]

Joisey: that is a solution, but I'd prefer to get the real thing...

I am a bit strange in this point ;)

[fifleche]

Joisey, you forgot the T-26. It really shined in that war.

[MektonZero]

Joisey, you forgot the T-26. It really shined in that war.

We've already got the T-26, just toss in the Chinese T-26s and you're good to go. I'll leave it to scenario creators to determine if the Unreliable SA should not apply and how many points that should be worth. :)

[Generaloberst_Beck]

If I were going to recreate the Spanish Civil War, I'd take Italian Fucilo Modelos and name them Nationalists/Fascists and then I'd take the Chinese rifles and name them Republicans/Commies. Throw in Pzr II's, Pak 38's, German mortars, Italian officer and Bf 109's for the facists and Polish tanks, commie partisans, 6 pd'er ATG, Russian mortar and F.O., and chinese MG's and Chi officer for the commies.

I would agree save for the Bf 109, and the Kuomintang stuff. Although it´s true most militiamen/women units were pretty "soft", some of them were efective in combat, mainly the 5th Regiment, the militia of the Spanish Communist Party, which was a bunch of disciplinated ironwilled people (I´ve met some of them, very elder, and boy, that´s Natural Selection). The machine guns used byt the Republican army were Maxims and, as there are no MGs for the Soviets yet, stats can be questionable. A Vickers would be fairer, for both sides. And the officers... well on account of both sides, I grant you that.

To reflect the Spanish terrain, make sure your maps include lots and lots of hills.

Yep, that one´s true.

Edit: To represent the numerous "volunteer" formations sent by Italy, Germany, and Russia, use Black Shirts, Mausers, and Moisin Nagants respectively, but they should never number more than 20% of a force total. Consider the commie partisans to be the "International Brigades" that fought for the Rupublicans.

Mostly good. However the Italians... what a spank they got in Guadalajara... They weren´t a determinant force really.

I miss submachine gun troops. The Spanish Civil War was the test field for all kind of automatic weapons of bullet caliber.

By the way, I somehow resent the kind of Hollywood For Whom the Bell Tolls image our Civil War has.

[fifleche]

By the way, I somehow resent the kind of Hollywood For Whom the Bell Tolls image our Civil War has.:confused: care to elaborate? I don't follow you.

[Generaloberst_Beck]

:confused: care to elaborate? I don't follow you.

The film, 1943, starring Gary Cooper and Ingrid Bergman, was kind of... cheesy compared with reality. The rest of the cast looks perfect... for a Mexican film.

The Spanish Civil War was a Coup d´Etat gone awry where both sides relied heavily in infantry and the supplies and equipments were almost outdated but the fighting was vicious. Spain was the most advanced of the backwards European countries but not a Banana Republic, much less the nationalist China.

BTW, I would add Ghurkas for Morrocan Colonial Irregular troops that fought along with the Rebels/Nationalists and Mausers for the Foreign Spanish Legion.

[fifleche]

Just never saw that movie. Thanks for the info. And it looks like I won't ever see it too.

Prefer much books to Hollywood.

"Under a Spanish Cockpit" is my current read.

[Generaloberst_Beck]

Just never saw that movie. Thanks for the info. And it looks like I won't ever see it too.

Prefer much books to Hollywood.

"Under a Spanish Cockpit" is my current read.

I guess it´s about the history of combat aircraft in Spain. I´m right now reading a book by a Spanish author about the Battle of Madrid which shows precisely the change of the unstructured and faulty militias into a disciplinated army, something which was obstructed by the quirks of this political corps: commies could be playing dummies for Moscow but at least they understood that orders and actions could not be decided and voted by an assembly but that the units should act under the command of an officer.

[Zhukov]

They're doing it now. They've already got a Minor Country Soldier, Anti-Tank Gun, Officer and Tank. :)

There might be some interest in a Korean War expansion set.
That last line is something I considered back in January as a last set. When they have done basically everything they could do a Korean War set or two. Yet tournaments wouldnt do that well for new sets are usally better and the tournaments wont be AAM it would turn into KWM for the Korean War stuff might be best unless they limit tournies years.

[Zhukov]

I just got another idea, a "Forgotten Wars" set maybe. With lots of pre-war or 1939 and before conflicts. Winter War, Spanish Civil War or something not to sure on it, fighting in China, and Poland. It would be interesting and cool.

[40roundsready]

The Spanish Blue Division would be an excellent addition to the Eastern front.Give the B.D. infantry a veteran SA being as they had experience during the Spanish civil war.

[Sharpe]

Generaloberst Beck:

What's your take on Homage to Catalonia? That's my favorite book about the SCW. I went to school with a gentleman who had been in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade and he was still bitter about the war.

What does modern-day Spain think about the war? When I lived in Barcelona, the only people I met who had lived through it were very devout and thought the good guys won. The men I worked with, much younger, believed that they would be living in a worker's paradise if the outcome had been different.

Look forward to your opinion.

[Generaloberst_Beck]

Generaloberst Beck:

What's your take on Homage to Catalonia? That's my favorite book about the SCW. I went to school with a gentleman who had been in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade and he was still bitter about the war.

Orwell was justified about his bitterness in Homage to Catalonia: as far as I can remember, because I read the book when I was 15, he joined the P.O.U.M. (Marxist Unification Worker´s Party) militia at some point or another, presumably after the disolution of the International Brigades,and this party was purged along with other minor formations by orders of Uncle Joe (Stalin, not the one in this forum).

Stalin was advancing Soviet interests in Spain but also there was a rational point to all that: the disperse nature of the militias was a pain in the neck (not to mention other bodily areas) to the Republican war effort because there was not a uniform opinion among the political forces about the logical option, that is "first win the war, then revolution". Anarchists from the CNT and other minor formations saw the war as the only moment they could change the odds and go colectiv.

Watch Ken Loach´s Land and Freedom for some details on this stuff.

What does modern-day Spain think about the war? When I lived in Barcelona, the only people I met who had lived through it were very devout and thought the good guys won. The men I worked with, much younger, believed that they would be living in a worker's paradise if the outcome had been different.

Look forward to your opinion.

Well, our Civil War still has effects on our political present (go laugh at the Vergangenheitsbewältigung of the Germans) as the Transition from the Dictatorship of Franco to the Democratic Monarchy of today was more of a compromise than a real return to Democratic legality. Many people in the main right wing party today are sons or daughters of important people in the Nationalcatholic regime. However, no matter what they tell you, the SCW was a frustrated coup d´etat where a good part of the military became rebels, therefore breaking with the people´s will as expressed in a democratic manner.

Those devout people may think the good guys won but that´s quite false. None of the sides was good during the war, as many purges were performed in order to ensure the that the other side hadn´t agents inside their territory. The common practice was to take people from their homes, round them up and taking them in the night to some deserted (or not) place to shoot them, many times burying the corpses in mass graves that only today are being investigated. However, after the war, Franco continued the purges and depurations, Concentration camps and forced labor included. His tomb is a massive architectural atrocity wholly built by Republican prisoners.

Then count in the refugees, such as my father as a kid, in France (which treated them in a fairly unkind manner,) and the famines in post-war Spain. Despite some revisionist effort to claim a left wing genocide in Spain the material evidence is against the tyrant. And add 39 years of repressed liberties (for instance, to get a job you needed a certificate signed by an officer of law, such as a Guardia Civil, or a Catholic priest).

How would have it been if the Republican had won? It´s complicated to know. The left wingers were not unified and they had issues among themselves. Worker´s paradise is somehow far from my idea but kind of leftist democracy is nearer.

All in all the SCW was an atrocity, you can bet, that was the result of the Republic being unable to overcome political differences in a peaceful manner: military, Catholic church and right wing forces (land owners, industrial moguls and fascists of Falange) wanted to keep the status quo of a depressed, underdeveloped Spain, while the left wingers (leftist democrats) wanted to change it and the socialists, commies and anarchists wanted outright revolution. The country was quartered like a person with horses, if you get the idea.

-BTW: what would you think of including some historical leader´s figures?

[Joisey]

I would agree save for the Bf 109, and the Kuomintang stuff. Although it´s true most militiamen/women units were pretty "soft", some of them were efective in combat, mainly the 5th Regiment, the militia of the Spanish Communist Party, which was a bunch of disciplinated ironwilled people (I´ve met some of them, very elder, and boy, that´s Natural Selection). The machine guns used byt the Republican army were Maxims and, as there are no MGs for the Soviets yet, stats can be questionable. A Vickers would be fairer, for both sides. And the officers... well on account of both sides, I grant you that.



Yep, that one´s true.



Mostly good. However the Italians... what a spank they got in Guadalajara... They weren´t a determinant force really.

I miss submachine gun troops. The Spanish Civil War was the test field for all kind of automatic weapons of bullet caliber.

By the way, I somehow resent the kind of Hollywood For Whom the Bell Tolls image our Civil War has.
What's wrong with the Bf 109's? I thought Hitler sent some to Spain. Or are you objecting because they weren't the model E?

In order to reflect some of the better Republican formations, you could use a regular SMLE, and leave the chinese rifle to represent the irregulars. I hear what you're saying about the Vickers, but I chose the chinese MG since it would look the same as the other chinese minis, while the Vickers is unmistakably "British" looking.

[Generaloberst_Beck]

What's wrong with the Bf 109's? I thought Hitler sent some to Spain. Or are you objecting because they weren't the model E?

In fact I have revised my sources and you are right indeed. A mistake on my part because I could not found very relevant actions by them on their own. More in the role of scorts for the Legión Condor bombers of the Germans and the sort. Besides, the mentions of Rebel aces are linked to Italian planes.

In order to reflect some of the better Republican formations, you could use a regular SMLE, and leave the chinese rifle to represent the irregulars. I hear what you're saying about the Vickers, but I chose the chinese MG since it would look the same as the other chinese minis, while the Vickers is unmistakably "British" looking.

For looks I agrre with you. The stats are what unnerve me.