Priest/Hero army

[Andras]

1x Red Devil Capt (7)
1x Red Army FO (8)
1x M7 (27)
2x Sherman (42)
2x Resourceful Hero (16)

Run the Shermans out to the Objective ASAP, place Resourceful Hero's, when the tank gets destroyed the Hero turns it into a Def 5 infantry unit. (edit- illegal tactic, see below)

Meanwhile the Red Devil and the RA FO call fire from the M7

Good idea/Bad idea?

You could also get 4x 4pt infantry instead of the Hero's
(or 2x Humbar)

Alt, replace the RA FO with a third ResHero to take the place of the M7 when it's destroyed!

[horacus]

It is an interesting build. It could work.

[Uncle_Joe]

The Shermans cant deploy Heroes. It says 'Soldiers'. So the FO or the RDC would have to go up there and do it.

[Andras]

Phoey, you're right, and it has to be a US soldier

RDC (7)
Red Army FO (8)
M7 (27)
Sherman x2 (42)
Hero (8)
Garand (4)
Jeep (4)

Run Jeep/Garand out with Shermans, next turn place hero with Garand move to a Sherman, have jeep go back for RDC.

Obviously I suffered for trying to squeeze a M7 and the Hero's into the same army.

[Andras]

How about this list without a M7

Rhino x1
Sherman x2
Garand x2 (or other 4pt infantry)
Jeep x2
Hero x2

Jeeps/Garands and Shermans race to the objective, place Hero's who then duplicate Shermans when they are killed. Meanwhile the Rhino is flanking around the sides.

[CdtWeasel]

Phoey, you're right, and it has to be a US soldier

RDC (7)
Red Army FO (8)
M7 (27)
Sherman x2 (42)
Hero (8)
Garand (4)
Jeep (4)

Run Jeep/Garand out with Shermans, next turn place hero with Garand move to a Sherman, have jeep go back for RDC.

Obviously I suffered for trying to squeeze a M7 and the Hero's into the same army.
AHhhhhhhh keep getting an error when I try to post. Basically it will take at least until turn 3 to get the hero in play, and you will have the garand under fire for turn 2. If the garand is hidden it will take longer to get the hero and tank in an ideal location.

[Andras]

With potentially 16 (Jeep 8+8) hexes of movement in the first turn, the hero(es) can be placed at the beginning of turn 2 easily. The Shermans can catch up after turn 2 movement phase (3 phases of movement 12-15 hexes total)

While the Garand is mounted, it doesn't count against stacking limits, while it still counts as a US Soldier for the placement of the hero. During the turn 2 movement phase, the hero can move into a hex with the Sherman, the garand can dismount, and the jeep can go off for the RDC, if needed.

[Uncle_Joe]

To me, regardless of the fact of whether it 'works' or not, the whole concept is total bunk. Heros doing the 'unexpected' should be just that...unexpected! When the PLAN is to go in with a Hero intending to rip the gun off the Sherman when it dies and continue to use it, the game is definately becoming less and less about WW2 and more about stupid gamey SAs and power combos. When its going to happen not once in a game, but multiple times? Come on...its no longer even ATTEMPTING to simulate reality.

Please note that I'm not denigrating your army here, only the whole concept of assinine SAs that allow for things like that in the first place! :)

FWIW, if that SA is not errata'ed before it even hits I just wont play with (or against) Heros. Its just not worth seeing the 'stupid factor' of the game increase that much. There are already plenty of useless units in the game. I'll just chock this one up as one more. I cant even suspend disbelief to CONTRIVE situations where this has a single shred of realism and the other 'combos' that will come along will defy the imagination!

[Miami_bumm]

What about this situation:

A tank, we'll just say a Sherman to keep it simple, gets destroyed in a hex. What does destroyed mean, in terms of the game? We don't know other than the tank can no longer move or shoot. So let's say by "destroyed," what happens to the Sherman is that the crew dies and the treads are messed up. So this hero comes along, sees the tank and jumps in to use the gun. There's no ripping of turrets, just a guy taking advantage (aka "Improvising") of a situation.

Yeah, it's far-fetched. But it COULD happen. The game is trying to find the balance between realism and simplicity. But also within that, they are trying to make situations arise in the game that are epic. More like a movie reality than "real" reality. That results in models, like the hero, that can perform potentially game changing tactics. And yes, it will probably get cheesed out. Have you seen a set yet that doesn't have something cheesey? Or even another game for that matter? Few and far between, that's for sure. I can think of chess. There are the people out there that will try to take advantage of everything. It's inevitable.

From what I have seen of this set, WOTC is trying to come up with some new, unique special abilities to expand the range of models. So far, I have been very pleased. I think the hero concept is way better than what I was expecting, and the Improvisation SA very unique. It's going to force players to try different tactics. Maybe that SSPG swarm isn't going to be as effective anymore (I personally would love that). I also totally dig the vehicles with the Open Back SA. Another unique ability, and another worry on the Allied part (an ME or Zero could mess up the Priest!).

I guess I just don't understand the concept of "I'm not going to play with that" without even trying it. And if you do try it, and someone cheeses it out, why are you playing against someone like that? If you have to keep banning models, maybe the problem isn't with the game, but the players. Plus, you ban too many and your armies could become stale and predictable. Give it a chance. Play a couple games against/with one. You might find out it's not as bad as you'd think.

[Richter von Manthofen]

As a German I would put at least a plane into my build to prevent such a scenario - kill enemy infantry as sson as possible, so Heros are stuck off board.

Jeep + infantry

Movement phase 1 - move Jeep - unload/or not
Assault phase - plane attacks soldier (if unmounted) if mounted Jeep - soldier or Jeep moves

--- repeat until soldier is unloaded sucessfully and Jeep away

Movement phase 2+X (X>1) Drop hero on map.

The problem is that you must obey the stacking limit thus moving the jeep out of range (or alternatively the soldier)

The better way is the deployment of an PT (could even ve a captain - but naturally it should be the SE PT.

Even then you must wait until round two.

[CdtWeasel]

Uncle Joe, are you familar with how Audie Murphy won his MoH?

[MektonZero]

Uncle Joe, are you familar with how Audie Murphy won his MoH?

This story is too good not to share. :)

I. MEDAL OF HONOR. - By direction of the President, under the provisions of the act of Congress approved 9 July 1918 (WD Bul. 43, 1918), a Medal of Honor for conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of life above and beyond the call of duty was awarded by the War Department in the name of Congress to the following-named officer:

Second Lieutenant Audie L. Murphy, 01692509, 15th Infantry, Army of the United States, on 26 January 1945, near Holtzwihr, France, commanded Company B, which was attacked by six tanks and waves of infantry. Lieutenant Murphy ordered his men to withdraw to a prepared position in a woods while he remained forward at his command post and continued to give fire directions to the artillery by telephone.

Behind him to his right one of our tank destroyers received a direct hit and began to burn. Its crew withdrew to the woods. Lieutenant Murphy continued to direct artillery fire which killed large numbers of the advancing enemy infantry. With the enemy tanks abreast of his position, Lieutenant Murphy climbed on the burning tank destroyer which was in danger of blowing up any instant and employed its .50 caliber machine gun against the enemy. He was alone and exposed to the German fire from three sides, but his deadly fire killed dozens of Germans and caused their infantry attack to waver.

The enemy tanks, losing infantry support, began to fall back. For an hour the Germans tried every available weapon to eliminate Lieutenant Murphy, but he continued to hold his position and wiped out a squad which was trying to creep up unnoticed on his right flank. Germans reached as close as 10 yards only to be mowed down by his fire. He received a leg wound but ignored it and continued the single-handed fight until his ammunition was exhausted. He then made his way to his company, refused medical attention, and organized the company in a counterattack which forced the Germans to withdraw.

His directing of artillery fire wiped out many of the enemy; he personally killed or wounded about 50. Lieutenant Murphy's indomitable courage and his refusal to give an inch of ground saved his company from possible encirclement and destruction and enabled it to hold the woods which had been the enemy's objective.

[fifleche]

Yeah. He manned a .50 HMG. Not the TD's main gun :rolleyes: And it happened ONCE. How many times would you expect the previous in a 300 pts fight?

Audie Murphy, like Skorzeny, are bigger-than-life characters. But the ressourceful hero does more AND more often. I mean, it's like that M8 scout car that took out a KT from behind. Is it possible, it the whole history of the conflict? Definitively yes. Do I want it modeled in a skirmish game? Nope. With a greater than 1% chance of happening per showing of the piece? Oh come on, now...

[Uncle_Joe]

Yep, it happened ONE time in all of WW2. In the game, it will happen probably at least once a battle and the worst thing is that it will PLANNED on working. Thats my chief complaint.

When an Infantry rolles 6 hits out of 6 shot vs a tank, THAT is Audie Murphy or Sgt Stryker or whomever you wish to insert. It happens RANDOMLY and it changes the outcome of the battle. THAT is the 'heroism' in the game. THIS is completely different. This is taking Audie Murphy into the NEXT battle with the intent that he will go back and man the AT guns or be in the right position to CA an enemy tank and take it over it. Did Audie Murphy do that in the next battle? Were their 3 of him on 'standby' waiting for the perfect opportunity to come in and save the day where needed?

Its a world of difference. The dice already represent the realm of chance, cowardice, and heroism. It does NOT need to be introduced as an easy-to-exploit mechanic.