D-Day Do or die?

[gloriesofold]

Will you still buy A&A minis after D-days shortcomings were made public?

[LoeweAusNorden]

Loop de´ loop....same, same but different...sigh...

Maybe we can wait and see, and first try out the new game mechanics before we decide, since we haven´t got the big picture yet. Was the same debate over airplanes, remember...

// LÖWE

[bazookajoe]

you can bet wotc will watch this poll closely. sound off now if ever

[Taisho_Alex]

you can bet wotc will watch this poll closely. sound off now if ever
Honestly? I don't think they will..

As of this pot there are 11 answers, and even if this reaches several hundreds, WotC know what kind of players participate and opinionate (is that a word? ;) ) on the boards.

Fans that are FANatic about something mostly.

Be that model quality, historical accuracy, balanced gameplay or whatever.

This boards visitors probably doesnt correspond to or represent the total demographic for fans and players.

Personally I'm here to see whar other people are talking about, and maybe get some tips - but I play the game to have fun, so whether the Spitfire is a repainted Me109 or not doesnt really matter to me, as long as I can recognize it when it is fielded against me. There is no bigger problem than having to look at your opponents cards all the time - it reveals your tactics too much..

[hornet69]

To Many Whinners Out There About The Changes .life Always Changes .and You Think The Game Will Not

[simonr1978]

I don't think that's strictly fair. Many of the complaints are justified and whilst life does indeed change it seems that the problems with quality and errors in sculpts have got worse rather than better.

As I stated in another thread, I am due to start a new job hopefully next month and was looking forward to spending some of the extra money I will be earning on this game partly in order to introduce my son to wargaming.

The errors that have cropped up were largely remedied by the efforts of the HHR team I believe, errors in sculpts irritating but again mostly livable with and as I am a reasonably competant modeller in many cases (3 Blade prop on the Mustang) they are correctable with a bit of effort.

However, as matters seem to have got worse to the point that a Bf109E is being passed off as a Spitfire MkI with no plans to correct or replace such an error I cannot justify spending my money on a product which is being produced with such sloppy, lazy and incompetant attention to detail.

[gloriesofold]

To Many Whinners Out There About The Changes .life Always Changes .and You Think The Game Will Not



See, the part I have concern with here is the last sentence. This is a historical game set in a specific time period in the past. It is well documented to say the least. Its not supposed to change. Some of us like to be stuck in the past and are willing to pay for it!

[Vulturedoodle]

I stopped buying cases with Contested Skies. I limit myself to the secondary market now. D-Day just confirms my decision.

--SEF

[scorpnoire]

After having Contested Skies and beeing disappointed already, the Messerspit really sparks the powder. The company really seems to think their customers are dumb walking wallets (quota).

I am outta here.

[spacepope]

I have 6 boosters on pre-order, but I'm not buying anything after this set. I also won't play with heroes at all.

[Colonel_Coo]

Sans IL-10.

I don't give a rats butt about the Spitsashit. His numbers on attack stink. He can't hurt anything without getting whacked. When a ground pounder is stronger than an airplane, the airplane has a MAJOR problem.

All planes should have one of three capbilities:

Tank Buster: +1 on each attack die when attacking vehicles
Ground Support: +1 on each attack die when attacking soldiers
Air Superiority fighter: +1 on each attack die when attacking aircraft without air superiority fighter.

I can live with the destructive ease of the planes, but they should be able to make an impact on the battlefield. That means for the cost of 30 points it should still have a 4 defense, teleport on the field and then be able to kill something.

All AA units should have Anti-Air and then a range (12, 16, 20).

[Lagduf]

First it was paratroopers, then it was planes and lack of errata, and now it's heroes and the Spitfire.

While the Spitfire mold is an unfortunate mistake, that wont stop me from buying. I'm largely with Colonel Coo on the whole planes issue, they should have never been added and if so should have been relatively simple (I really like the roles he suggests). At least WotC admitted something went wrong.

For casual play the game is hardly broken or unplayable.

Count me in for Set IV.

I hardly feel as if i'm getting ripped off.

[Outgunned]

No game can put out sets this fast and have quality be top notch...not even card games can put out sets at this rate...i like the game for the game. Most figs i already assume i am going to repaint. I know everyone doesnt want to repaint them but most of the figs arent so bad that they cant be played or enjoyed. So i am still here, for what its worth.

[OtterSC]

the way i look at it, i am probably going to start trading/purchasing my units that appeal to me on an individual basis. for me, even though purchasing a case breaks down to $1.00 per piece. i would be willing to spend a little more getting only the pieces i want. i have such a large collection as it is. besides, my wife is not a fun person when she is angry. and if i get another case, well... i guess i would need to invest in a cot for in the garage.

i like the game as it is a step up from the original AA that i still play from time to time.

i am just wondering how many more "land" sets they are planning on putting out. they do have the AA:Sea (which already doesn't appeal to me). i can probably expect more air to air and air to sea combat with that.

[Tico303]

Hi, WotC honestly agreed that they have messed up. That's good. But some action has to follow and a repainted modell of another aircraft is just not acceptable. WotC, contain the damage done and DO SOMETHING about it! Since you want to sell your stuff long term and the "FANatics" are your most important asset, win our hearts back by presenting a solution to the plane-error.

BTW: You could redo the 3" gun while you are at it ;-)

[V-Disc]

I'll refrain from casting a vote in this poll. I'll likely buy a little less of this set than the privious three. Mostly beacuse I have plenty of stuff already. I usually go with a "wait&see" attitude. I guess this is a "Yes - But - Less" vote.

[shadowhooch]

i like the game as it is a step up from the original AA that i still play from time to time.


True that. AAM is a big upgrade to original A&A in a lot of ways.

Although I've never played the Second Edition, the Original A&A was seriously flawed (still fun though).

So yes, I will keep playing and buying AAM; but would appreciate a better effort from WotC. I haven't had much of a problem so far; but I don't like the way they are handling the Spitfire. I'd appreciate more up front honesty than fessing up after everyone has already pointed out the problem.

[Marquis]

I Love this game. I don't love some of the goof looking units, 3" gun, piat gunner, supersized pak 40, but I do like the game mechanics. I've been playing every week now for 9 months and I still find the games very enjoyable. Can I say that about any other game? No I can't, not a computer game, not any other board game. I still havn't figured out how to use all the combinations of arms. This is a very complex yet simple game.

My challenge to all the naysayers is to tell me of any other better World War Two based game. You can't. So for some of this games faults it has just to many attributes to not play it. If I didn't play this game every week my life would be a little less enjoyable. For that I"ll allow some ugly sculpting.

[AATigers1]

I currently have 2 cases on pre-order. However, the order will now be removed until I have seen more Opening Salvo updates(i.e. the entire HERO issue when other more important pieces could have produced, the current Spitfire issue, the recycled mg42 and the decling qaulity of a "collectible game"). My collection now is well over 1000 pieces but may soon be for sale - may be going to GHQ. The recent out break of a severe depleting mental capacity virus at the A&A minis design and marketing department leads me to one of the following perhaps even final solutions to the AH problem;
A) Purge the leadership
B) Send those responsible to a corporate work camp - never to be seen at
AH again
C) Purge the leadership twice
D) Lead injections - the cure can be terminal
E) Get the Donald to fire some people

To those at AH listening - A plan that can not be altered will be defeated

[Tico303]

Of course AAM is a great game and WotC has done quite a good job so far. Still, the Low-cost recylced Airplane just blew up in their face and if this is not fixed it will harm the community and - in the long run, also the AAM sales.

On the other hand: If WotC makes up for it, the fans will notice! This whole mess may even turn out as an opportunity if the WotC people control damage now!

[gloriesofold]

I Love this game. I don't love some of the goof looking units, 3" gun, piat gunner, supersized pak 40, but I do like the game mechanics. I've been playing every week now for 9 months and I still find the games very enjoyable. Can I say that about any other game? No I can't, not a computer game, not any other board game. I still havn't figured out how to use all the combinations of arms. This is a very complex yet simple game.

My challenge to all the naysayers is to tell me of any other better World War Two based game. You can't. So for some of this games faults it has just to many attributes to not play it. If I didn't play this game every week my life would be a little less enjoyable. For that I"ll allow some ugly sculpting.


Check the market man FoW is big!

[spadsept@mac.com]

Still, the Low-cost recylced Airplane just blew up in their face and if this is not fixed it will harm the community and - in the long run, also the AAM sales.

On the other hand: If WotC makes up for it, the fans will notice! This whole mess may even turn out as an opportunity if the WotC people control damage now!

It look like it's more in the short run that sales will fall and not counting the new WW2 naval games wich would be played by AAM players...

Yes, it's still time to do something about, we would like an annoncement saying a tournament promo in a few month will be a real Spit... That would calm everything down and it would show WOTC cares about their customers, i was going fo dreamblade and the new WW@ naval game. Not sure anymore... Wizkids cares much more so far than WOTC.

[Colonel_Coo]

The biggest problem is not sculpts. From what I can tell they've screwed the pooch on four of them. (US Micro-gun ATG, Japanese McCheese Mobile, US Jumbo Tank Hunter, and the UK Spitsashit) When dealing with the Chinese, I expect nothing less (hey when you pay $100 a month for labor, you get what you pay for) than screw ups and cover-ups (from Chinese management).

The problem is they don't make pieces playable due to power factor.

Look at two units that should be identical:
US Half-track
GE Half-track
Both are identical in cost, indentical in speed, identical in armor, identical in AI attack value, but the US has a 50% improvement in AT dice (3 versus 2). So the US one is just "better"? Give me a break. The US copied the German one because it (the German one) was so effective. At 14 points they're Dead units.

Look at spring loaded rifleman for UK. No gunpowder use in the weapon meant that it was very hard to locate, but does it have any camoflage? Nope. Dead unit.

Look at the Panzergrenadier versus the SS Panzergrenadier. Total crap. Why, because the Germans don't have a Jeep. Why bother with SA that cannot be use?

Take a look at fearsome tank hunters of the sky. Anyone driving a IS-2 fear a tank-hunting Stuka? Nope. Top armor just as strong as front armor, side armor and rear armor. Total crap.

SA that have been written are poorly thought out (missing things like Camoflage), not supported (mechanised tatics with only a 14pt crap unit with transport), not reflective of combat potential (tank hunters that can't hurt a tank!) or just generally falling under the "nothing to see here, move along".

With the lack of immagination, we start seeing Gamesmanship abilities like "HERO!". Total crap. How about the Hero having a "or die trying" capability. On a 4,5,6 he is immediately destroyed; otherwise, see improvisational SA. Would that add balance? Yep.

How about a Mechanised tactics allowing Dismount and move or Move and Mount? How about a 251 half-track that gives that capability to units with Mechanised tactics?

How about instead of MOVE 0 for the Sandbagged Machine gun but it still has to set up with 5 hexes of the edge of the map retrictions, you give the unit a an ability to set up 8 hexes from rear map edge or some such restriction. Oh that's right, German units don't get to set up anywhere, only American, British, Russian and Japanese units can do that. Crap! Total crap.

How about every tank having a lower rear armor than front armor? Or if not that, then how about Superior Armor only affecting shots from the front arc?

How about a tank that has a 5 defense but it is attacked at long range it gets +2/+0 defense to refelct slope of armor and difficulty at hitting at long range?

How about ATG's that have short/medium +1 die modifiers to reflect muzzle velocity but don't have them at long range.

How about a ATG that ignores Superior Armor?

How about some dang thought into special abilities other than bigger, stronger, faster, cheaper?

Okay maybe that last line was uncalled for. The spitsashit reflects non-linear thought and orignality. Too bad planes suck.

[spadsept@mac.com]

Check the market man FoW is big!


Agreed FOW rocks!

[Marquis]

Check the market man FoW is big!

That maybe but NO ONE here plays it. Can't be that big. Our local AAM tourney always has at least 10 people and we've had up to 20 plus a weekly campaign game. Fow is just that Fog of War, as in I don't see it.

[Bobsalt]

That maybe but NO ONE here plays it. Can't be that big. Our local AAM tourney always has at least 10 people and we've had up to 20 plus a weekly campaign game. Fow is just that Fog of War, as in I don't see it.

It's the total opposite here. I can find any number of places to play FOW, on almost any night of the week, and could probably play anytime I want if I want to host a session in my home. FOW is a hot game here right now. On the other hand, A&AM has totally dried up here - not only can you not find players, but most of the stores here aren't even carrying it anymore.

[Ewokhunter92]

I for one could care less about the HERO. He makes no changes in the way we play, so it's no big deal.

the sculpting issue is not bad...yet. If they continue this path, it may affect my future purchases.

[skeevo666]

I'm still in ;)





.

[gloriesofold]

It's the total opposite here. I can find any number of places to play FOW, on almost any night of the week, and could probably play anytime I want if I want to host a session in my home. FOW is a hot game here right now. On the other hand, A&AM has totally dried up here - not only can you not find players, but most of the stores here aren't even carrying it anymore.



Once again Bobsalt, all I can do is say the exact same thing is true where I live. FOW is HOT, while A&A minis are not! You have to drive over 1 hour to even find the store that still carries A&A minis.

[Zhukov]

That maybe but NO ONE here plays it. Can't be that big. Our local AAM tourney always has at least 10 people and we've had up to 20 plus a weekly campaign game. Fow is just that Fog of War, as in I don't see it.
lies. AAM is near dead FoW is huge where I am. I dont really want to but I feel im getting pushed to it.

[Zhukov]

Once again Bobsalt, all I can do is say the exact same thing is true where I live. FOW is HOT, while A&A minis are not! You have to drive over 1 hour to even find the store that still carries A&A minis.
w00t w00t. Gald to see 2 more people in my position.

[GrimJesta]

S
All planes should have one of three capbilities:

Tank Buster: +1 on each attack die when attacking vehicles
Ground Support: +1 on each attack die when attacking soldiers
Air Superiority fighter: +1 on each attack die when attacking aircraft without air superiority fighter.

That's not a bad idea...

Anyway, besides the Spitfire, what else is wrong with D-Day that would prompt this poll? The Hero rules are lame*, and it looks like most people aren't going to use them anyway, but what else?


My challenge to all the naysayers is to tell me of any other better World War Two based game. You can't.

Flames of War: It has better models and better rules, but it's more expensive. The price and the fact that A&AM are painted are the only thing better.

Check the market man FoW is big!

Right.

Apparently me and my girlfriend are the only people in Albany that actually play the game A&AM, but they can't keep the models on the shelves. People are buying the models up and using them for House Rules or Flames of War since people don't want to paint. I wish I had the cash to buy that many boosters, but I'm limited in cash. And I don't mind the rules. It's an abstract pseudo-boardgame.

-=Grim=-

*What sucks is that the HEro, should you get one, will be your Rare most likely. That's what stinks about it. OK, maybe I *am* starting to understand the griping.

[NEVjr]

the hero is uncommon

i will be playing with a different miniature set, and HHR i think

[Stojakovic]

Honestly? I don't think they will..

As of this pot there are 11 answers, and even if this reaches several hundreds, WotC know what kind of players participate and opinionate (is that a word? ;) ) on the boards.

Fans that are FANatic about something mostly.



That is the nice way of calling us nerds :D

Anyway I am sticking to this game.

[Stojakovic]

Not a single person plays FoW in my area. But a LOT of people play AAM

[RommeL BombeR 77]

and so begins the beginning of the end

[Patton 68]

Look at two units that should be identical:
US Half-track
GE Half-track
Both are identical in cost, indentical in speed, identical in armor, identical in AI attack value, but the US has a 50% improvement in AT dice (3 versus 2). So the US one is just "better"? Give me a break. The US copied the German one because it (the German one) was so effective. At 14 points they're Dead units.



US halftrcks were not conceptual copies of German units but rather the culmination of development of artillery prime movers from the interwar years.The reason the US version has more AT dice reflects that a
.50 cal has better AT ability vs an MG 34 or 42. Even as Europe went to war,light tanks with .50 cal main guns formed the bulk of US tank strength.

In game terms though,they are overcosted for what they offer,and I rarely use them.

[horacus]

Yes, 20 people less. Haw thay say in my country: less dukies, more food.

[horacus]

Well, FoW is a good game, but it is most expensive and you have to paint. In my area the 20 players that played FoW changed to A&Aminis beacause of the price and the rules. And,here we will keep playing A&Aminis because we don't really care about the exact minis, we collect the metal miniatures at 1/100 scale because we like the details, but, for the game, the most important are the cards, the stats. We use the A&A minis to play, to have a perfectionist figure, the metal ones.