Is This The End???

[Muenchausen]

What do you think? Is there going to be another AAM set release? We are going on three weeks without an announcement of any kind. D-Day was announced before contested skies was released. Does anyone remember how long it took to announce set two after set one was released? How about Contested Skies after after set two was released? Maybe there going to annopunce the War at Sea game. What's your thoughts.

[Stojakovic]

2 more sets for this year. And there are plans for 2007. But only plans. Then there is the new game where you fight on that big blue wet thing! :)

[Predator666]

I think right now they are mostly thinking about scenarios. They are probably ganna try and get all those out and then tell us some about what to expect.

[Dr_Strangelove]

I get the feeling that WotC is mulling over exactly what they should do next. They will probably look at the sale figures and the online feedback. It might take them a little time to choose a course of action. From what I'm seeing the game will continue but they want to figure out the most cost effective way to maintain fan loyalty and bring in new players. It might take time.

[DocD]

I think the crazy thing is is that the game is just now getting really good.

With 4 sets in, there is a plethora of units to choose from. With so many units, a player can test almost any strategy for almost any engagement and replicate almost any battle in almost any theater.

The down side of course, is that the rule book needs revamping to incorporate all the new units and their SAs, but I'm really looking forward to seeing what the next few sets bring.

[Dr_Strangelove]

I think the crazy thing is is that the game is just now getting really good.

With 4 sets in, there is a plethora of units to choose from. With so many units, a player can test almost any strategy for almost any engagement and replicate almost any battle in almost any theater.

The down side of course, is that the rule book needs revamping to incorporate all the new units and their SAs, but I'm really looking forward to seeing what the next few sets bring.

I agree.

It would be nice if the rules were cleaned up a little. I would even consider buying a revised set of rules if they expanded on a few things. Right now the guys I play with are heavily experimenting with the HHR rules off the HBF website. This game still has a lot of room for growth and for WotC to make some money.

[Sniper45]

2 more sets for this year. And there are plans for 2007. But only plans. Then there is the new game where you fight on that big blue wet thing! :)
Heh, I haven't seen that movie in so long.

[Stojakovic]

Heh, I haven't seen that movie in so long.

Who else know what movie that is from? I am surprised someone got it :cool: You are now on my A list

[Sniper45]

But you don't even know what I'm thinking...

[Sharpe]

Muppets' T I.

[cannonfodder]

As opposed to "Big blue wobbly thing" which was Baldrics' definition of "C" on Black Adder. If you don't know who or what B.A. is then you're probably not damn near 40 like me. :rolleyes:

[Stojakovic]

Muppets' T I.

Wingo... you are on the A list.

[Sharpe]

Way past 40. My kids used to watch MTI, now they watch Blackadder. Bugger me with a fishfork they grow up fast.

[cannonfodder]

Bugger me with a fishfork? There are only one place where I can imagine that coming from. I believe I live near the West Coast of the same northern nation that you live near the East Coast of. If I'm right then you probably used to watch Codco too.

[Arpathapius]

Codco was great show

[Sharpe]

Never heard of Codco. I deny living near any coast of any country, residing instead in the virtue-laden heartland.

BMWAFF is from General Melchett (Stephen Fry) in Blackadder Goes Forth.

[cannonfodder]

Wherever you are from you could be an honourary Newfie (and that's intended as a compliment). A turn of phrase like that would get you invited to all the parties. An example of the language as used last time I went to visit.
"Stay where you're at and I'll come where you're too."
or my personal favourite way to show surprise (please don't be offended)
"Lord Thunderin' Jesus on a popsicle stick." as in that surprised me as much as if I'd seen...
Thanks for the laugh.

[NorthernRommel]

Tum good me son......

And I don't need to be honorary, just ornery. :cool:

But seriously, if you ever go there don't try to imitate a Newfoundlander. But its okay to ask how to say something properly.

[Porter]

Actually I've never used the heard the popsicle stick one, but I do use I do use

"Lord Tunderin (the h is silent) Jezus (the second s sounds more like a z) drove bye in a sidecar"

or as we would say here about the whole "messspit" thingin:

"She's gone, bye, she's gone arse o' kettle and she ain't comin back"

[Muenchausen]

This thread was originally started for some serious discussion on what people thought about next release, if there is going to be another release. Not all this stuff that seemed to derail it.

[Hiro]

I thnik with this set they jumped the shark.

[Porter]

I thnik with this set they jumped the shark.


I must say that I've been trying to avoid the same conclusion.

However, I believe that the introduction of Heros, and the various mistakes in the minis themselves may have propelled it over the ramp.

[Sturmgrenadier]

This thread was originally started for some serious discussion on what people thought about next release, if there is going to be another release. Not all this stuff that seemed to derail it.
Another classic forum hijacking ;)

[Dr_Strangelove]

Another classic forum hijacking ;)

Okay, so we put this discussion back on it's original track. I think the topic is worth following. I'm not so sure the 'D-Day' set is the end of the road. It looks like WotC is getting ready to respond to some of the negative feedback they have been seeing.

Now they might just blow us all off and continue the same course. Then I would have to admit that the game's demise would be coming shortly.

They could also start taking some constructive steps. I'm personally leaning to the idea that they will try to correct their mistakes. The real question, at least for me, is what these corrective actions might be. I want to believe that they will attempt to produce a more historical game with less of the comic book hero stuff.

[Cruizin2000]

I'm thinking that the end is near for this game. D-Day was the end for Germany. Maybe the next set will be called 1945? Of course it will include the early war units. They do need to make one more set to fill in the rest of the missing units like Russian and US MG teams, Polish forces, etc.

C2000

[Muenchausen]

I have my doubts wheather the game is going to continue. Don't get me wrong, I like this game and want to see at least one more set to kind of round out some of the armies. For example, I want to see Russian and US machine guns. All the minor factions need additional units just so we'll be able to field an army of that nation. This silence from WOTC has got me wondering whats going on. Maybe they might release the War at Sea gane.

[Autarch]

Now they might just blow us all off and continue the same course. .

This is more likely the case on the difficult issues, such as unit mis-scaling, lower quality design (pegs, drooping barrels) and paint schemes.

They could also start taking some constructive steps. I'm personally leaning to the idea that they will try to correct their mistakes. The real question, at least for me, is what these corrective actions might be. I want to believe that they will attempt to produce a more historical game with less of the comic book hero stuff.

They have produced rules errata based on voluminous complaints on these forums before, as well as maps/scenarios. But these are non-issues for me since I use modified/other rules for large numbers of units on 3d terrain. My main concerns are the quality of the minis, and it looks to me like these are issues that are completely out of WotC USA's control as has been repeatedly proven with the last three sets. Therefore, I don't anticipate any improvement in that direction.

[cannonfodder]

I don't have a problem with the minis. For me they are just markers. I tend to use the rules as written. I like what they've done so far and expect more of the same. As has been pointed out before by many posters A+A minis is not, advertising aside, a historically accurate depiction of WW2. It is a quick table top combat system that uses WW2 as it's inspiration. For me, I'll keep buying boosters at $17 CDN as long as they still make them.
I choose not to abuse the rules as written.
Logic over the need for victory (it's only a game, noone dies if you lose)

[spadsept@mac.com]

Hum... They should do a new starter with 2 boosters in it, 4 new maps and rules updates... :) Who want's to bet with me?

[Aries]

Hum... They should do a new starter with 2 boosters in it, 4 new maps and rules updates... :) Who want's to bet with me?

I would only purchase it if it contained corrected miniatures.

[Porter]

I think it's winding down, mostly if you take a look at the reamining "armour" left to produce, There is very little that can be introduced in terms of game play.

Yes I realize that there is the Ferdinand/Elephant, and the KV-2, and Marder III and Lorraine Schlepper, and Panzer 38t, but seriously consider will the introduction of these units add anything to the game? The heaviest and lightest tanks have already been released, so by rights and logic, all other tanks are going to fall "in between". Lets take a look at some examples:

The Elephant: It's going to have Tiger I like armour stats and armour attack values, it very little, if any AI stats. (Due to a lack of an MG), it's slow, so speed will be around 2. and cost around 55 to 60 pts. Except for collectibility and to have an "Elefant presence in you Kursk scenarios " why would you choose this item? It cost is going to be prohibitative, there will be better tank destoyers out there, so why really even produce it, except for being completist?

The Panzer 38, is it really going to have better stats than the Panzer III? - Not lilkely,

I believe That we are going to see a "ramping up" of SA's on current units. Similiar to the Vet Tiger. If this does happen the game is effectively over, as this practice cannot entice pople to new sets.

[Ewokhunter92]

it's kind of ironic that the D-Day set makes people believe the game is ending. D-Day was the start of the main campaigns yet this set may be the end.

Wierd ain't it.

I do believe the last set will be called The Bomb and will consist of a large bomb that when played, the game is competely over.

[horacus]

Well, I can say that this is not the end because we are getting an other stater. yes¡'¡¡¡¡¡

[shadowhooch]

I think it's winding down, mostly if you take a look at the reamining "armour" left to produce, There is very little that can be introduced in terms of game play.

Yes I realize that there is the Ferdinand/Elephant, and the KV-2, and Marder III and Lorraine Schlepper, and Panzer 38t, but seriously consider will the introduction of these units add anything to the game? The heaviest and lightest tanks have already been released, so by rights and logic, all other tanks are going to fall "in between". Lets take a look at some examples:

The Elephant: It's going to have Tiger I like armour stats and armour attack values, it very little, if any AI stats. (Due to a lack of an MG), it's slow, so speed will be around 2. and cost around 55 to 60 pts. Except for collectibility and to have an "Elefant presence in you Kursk scenarios " why would you choose this item? It cost is going to be prohibitative, there will be better tank destoyers out there, so why really even produce it, except for being completist?

The Panzer 38, is it really going to have better stats than the Panzer III? - Not lilkely,

I believe That we are going to see a "ramping up" of SA's on current units. Similiar to the Vet Tiger. If this does happen the game is effectively over, as this practice cannot entice pople to new sets.

I think there is PLENTY left. Aside from multitudes new vehicles, they can still rehash old ones. One I'd like to see is Panzer II Ausf C - Blitzkrieg. Give it SS Determination or something to reflect its use in 1939 (but please cost it accordingly ;) ).

[Cruizin2000]

I think there is PLENTY left. Aside from multitudes new vehicles, they can still rehash old ones. One I'd like to see is Panzer II Ausf C - Blitzkrieg. Give it SS Determination or something to reflect its use in 1939 (but please cost it accordingly ;) ).

Why would anyone want to buy the same fig again but with different stats? We already got stuck with a "new" Tiger I. Remember when WizKids did that with the Dungeons Mage Spawns? That game took a dump fast. If they do go this route, they can whip out 4 more sets in no time. I'm not going to be a sucker and buy any more stuff if that's the case. That's like going to an all-you-can-eat place and liking it so much that you go back up and buy another plate.

C2000

[spadsept@mac.com]

Well if i get 1-2 repaint/restat of a mini per set, i won't mind ... but no more than that.

[Stojakovic]

Well if i get 1-2 repaint/restat of a mini per set, i won't mind ... but no more than that.

Same here. As long as they are not botarded look. Whcih is every german unit so far.

[Ewokhunter92]

My gaming group is already getting bored. It's always the same types of teams. we don't play campaigns that are listed as no one likes them.

We played that one big game and it was quite boring, and stopped.

I hold no ill will toward WotC or with what they have done, we are just getting bored. I will probably sell my stuff and focus on SWM instead.

[Porter]

I think there is PLENTY left. Aside from multitudes new vehicles, they can still rehash old ones. One I'd like to see is Panzer II Ausf C - Blitzkrieg. Give it SS Determination or something to reflect its use in 1939 (but please cost it accordingly ;) ).


This is a prime example of the Ramping Up of SA's that I mentioned earlier.
The Panzer II is already released so the only way to make it intersting is to raise the power level.

IMHO this is not an example of "plenty" left, this is a ramping up of a previously released unit.

You can release 100 different Panzer IV G's all with Different SA's. But it won't attract new players or expand the game. It would only cause power creep and obsolence of the previously released units.

[Stojakovic]

This is a prime example of the Ramping Up of SA's that I mentioned earlier.
The Panzer II is already released so the only way to make it intersting is to raise the power level.

IMHO this is not an example of "plenty" left, this is a ramping up of a previously released unit.

You can release 100 different Panzer IV G's all with Different SA's. But it won't attract new players or expand the game. It would only cause power creep and obsolence of the previously released units.

Second that. But I don't think re-releasing a panzer II will be popular. There is not much to make it a better tank. The only thing is to make it a vet. But then people will get a little tired of seeing a reprint of old vehicles with vet. in front. Though a vet. panzer II could be deadly. Cheap, nice little swarm, +1 on each att. die. Could suffocate any allied design.

[spadsept@mac.com]

What i like with some repaint/restat is that i can use the card i want with the model i want... now i got a tiger for Africa and one for russian front, and they can be both vet or standard. But as i said no more than 1-2 of those repaint/restat in each set...

[Remember-OWS-]

I will look under your unit spad...

[spadsept@mac.com]

I know you will... You should look at my special dices too...

Anyway, you know i got tons of every unit... ;)

[Dr_Strangelove]

Looks like this game still has some life in it. Now we just have to wait until November to see if they have corrected any of the problems.

[Maturin]

Looks like this game still has some life in it. Now we just have to wait until November to see if they have corrected any of the problems.
I'm less sure about that today than yesterday ("sure" is probably not the right word :)). To me, 'Reserves' looks a lot like a coffin nail. And the new starter set? Starter Set? Recycling older boosters and calling it a new "Starter Set" isn't just misrepresentation, it's embarrassing.

[fifleche]

I wish they had done an early war set. There's much more left unused in '39-41 than the "wunderwaffen" of '45. Also, an early-war front-line unit is still useable as a second or third-line unit years later... And with the advent of commandos/paras/rangers/partisans, these are the kind of enemies they faced...

Anyways, WoTC did the same "recycling" gimmick for their new "player's kit" for D&D/DDM, and I highly doubt it's because they just had to "recycle" those "Aberrations" boosters...

[Maturin]

Anyways, WoTC did the same "recycling" gimmick for their new "player's kit" for D&D/DDM, and I highly doubt it's because they just had to "recycle" those "Aberrations" boosters...
On the contrary, I think that's precisely why they did it. Twenty-first century marketing is leaving me behind, I guess. When I saw the ads for the player's kit my first thought was "jeez, that's lame," and my second thought was "but it'll sell like hotcakes because so many folks have never experienced anything better." Same with this starter set, I think. Lotsa folks with suitably lowered expectations will buy it, and that will give positive marks to the marketing sharks responsible for it, and the downward spiral (which includes lower quality plastic and even less QC expenses) will continue until at some point it bottoms out and folks stop buying.

It's a very effective sales mechanism, in the short term. Squeeze and suck as long as there's any liquid left, then dump the product and move on to the next. I've resisted that conclusion as long as I can, but avoided buying any Set IV because of the red flags. I was hoping there'd be an actual new Starter, the way it's done in DDM. Too bad.

[Dr_Strangelove]

I'm reserving my final judgment on 'reserves'; we have very little idea what is even in it yet. We only know about 4 of the pieces so we have about 40 more to check out yet.

[PURE_EVIL]

reservrs will not be the end as long as they can keep you buying more

[Muenchausen]

I think reserves is it. Without sales statistics it all pure speculation. I'm making my assumption based on this. They have offered a pretty fair mix of all the major types of units involved in WWII. I know that units like US and Soviet machine gun teams are missing but that where the reserve set will come in. In addition to jets, fallshirmjaegers and Hungarians, I think we will see the missing units for all the major factions to kind of round them out. The other thing thats got me perplexed is why the five month wait? Is War at Sea going to be released between now and then? Are they going to release the map packs that everyone has been asking for? Do they have something else in mind for us? I don't know. I hope I'm wrong but I think the game is nearing the end.

[Stojakovic]

reservrs will not be the end as long as they can keep you buying more
I was wondering why it was so hot today. Evil is up. But there are plans for sets to come up in 2007.

[Autarch]

I'm less sure about that today than yesterday ("sure" is probably not the right word :)). To me, 'Reserves' looks a lot like a coffin nail. And the new starter set? Starter Set? Recycling older boosters and calling it a new "Starter Set" isn't just misrepresentation, it's embarrassing.

But you get two new maps.

TWO!

And two boosters from sets you don't need anymore of.

TWO!

And already out of date rules!

OUT OF DATE!

I was all hyped about getting the new starter until your post slapped me upside the head and made me realize what I WASN'T getting.

Ideally the new starter should have included minis from only the newest set (or at least all of them), all new maps, individual map tiles, a fully updated errated rulebook, reference card (like SSG_Hubles but updated) and a scenarios rule book of all the official ones to date. And some counters not one molecule thick.

How cool would that be?

I'd even pay $29-35 for something like that! Toss in some dice and you would be getting a complete game.

[Stojakovic]

I thought it was the new rule book?

[NEVjr]

I thought it was the new rule book?
it is, but its not quite up to date

look at it this way, buying a starter costs less then the 2 boosters in it, since im not done with those 3 sets yet, ill buy starters over boosters unless i need a dday booster, because more maps and counters and a lower price is welcomed

[Stojakovic]

it is, but its not quite up to date

look at it this way, buying a starter costs less then the 2 boosters in it, since im not done with those 3 sets yet, ill buy starters over boosters unless i need a dday booster, because more maps and counters and a lower price is welcomed

I was planning to buy 2 or 3 of them. Need some more stuff from those sets. I need a lot more counters. And more maps never hurt.

[Dr_Strangelove]

I think this game will continue as long as it sells. Once the sales numbers drop it will fade away. Right now, from what I can see online and at the shops and my wholesaler it is still selling rather well. I think this game has a large fan base that never visits this forum; their dollar might be what decides things. We can shout and message about all the problems this game has, and it does have problems, but as long as it sells it will live on.

[cannonfodder]

In that case sell dude sell. With the new expansions coming out this seems like a game that still has it's legs. Let it run. Buy more boosters.

[Dr_Strangelove]

In that case sell dude sell. With the new expansions coming out this seems like a game that still has it's legs. Let it run. Buy more boosters.

It definitely has legs, inspite of what some people feel so vehemently the game is living on inspite of its problems. The recent increase in communications from WotC has given me some hope. I'll have to wait awhile but I'm more than a little curious about what will be in Set V. WotC seems to be listening to some of the bitter pleas that have come from the forums in that they are releasing German paratroopers. I will just feel better if I see more Russian stuff come out.

[Kaufschtick]

It definitely has legs, inspite of what some people feel so vehemently the game is living on inspite of its problems. I will just feel better if I see more Russian stuff come out.

Agreed. It would be nice to see a "veteran" type infantry piece and an MG of some kind. That and some decent uncommon tanks (T-34 type...hint hint).

[Bobsalt]

It definitely has legs, inspite of what some people feel so vehemently the game is living on inspite of its problems.
I'm not so sure. There are so many basic units still to be done that the fact they are apparently already resorting to experimental units makes me wonder just how much longer this will go on.

The recent increase in communications from WotC has given me some hope. I'll have to wait awhile but I'm more than a little curious about what will be in Set V. WotC seems to be listening to some of the bitter pleas that have come from the forums in that they are releasing German paratroopers. I will just feel better if I see more Russian stuff come out.
The apparent response by WotC to all of the player requests for communication has given me a little hope as well, though I prefer to withhold final judgement until I see how substantive their responses are.

[horacus]

Only time will say the fate of the game.

[TheJudge]

Seems like it is doing fine to me. Ebay is busy, stores are busy selling boosters as long as they aren't full retail, and I hear talk about gaming nights.

There are always those that play but never go to stores or this forumn so the people here are not the only ones who play this game. lol

There is still quite a bit of material to use and they can always reprint things with different paint schemes, insignias, etc. I don't like that idea but if you want to be buying this new, 3 years from now, I would expect them to remake the T-34 and other pieces and make them a different rarity.

The good news is, you can play with just these 4 sets and have enough to play the game for a long, long time and have it still be fun to play.