subs.... again :)

[sadbttru]

i know that subs are a much discussed topic, but heres my question/understanding:

after reading this:
Subs have always been confusing. Can you summarize the changes?
Here's what you need to remember about subs.

1. Every sub, regardless of whether it's on the attacking or defending side, fires in the Opening Fire step of combat. That's the only time a sub ever fires.

and

Submarines are part of a large naval engagement. Do they get to fire during the opening fire step of every round, or only the first round?
Every round.

so i would take this to mean that subs only roll for attacks/defends in opening fire and continue to do so until combat is finished.
for ex:

2 sub, 1 bs, 2 trans vs 1 bs, 2 trans
opening, subs roll and remove casualties of their choice (of any of the 5)
combat, remaining units roll (for attacker that would be only the BS) NOT including the subs.
IF there were no hits opening fire would repeat and the subs would roll again at this point.

the presence of a destroyer (owned by defender) allows defender to roll against the hits...

ack im confused again! :)

[smo63]

Subs only fire once in a round. So, once the opening round is over, they do NOT get to fire again. All hits from a sub are immediately removed(defenders choice) unless an enemy destroyer is present. At which time, the sub losses its' special attack as well as can not submurge if they so choose.

GS:)

[sadbttru]

then what does this mean:
Q Submarines are part of a large naval engagement. Do they get to fire during the opening fire step of every round, or only the first round?
A Every round.

it is from the official faq

i took it to mean every round of the combat phase

[smo63]

Nope, only in the opening round and only once. Which is the start of combat...

GS:)

[Yoper]

You have to understand that the Opening Fire Step is just one step of a combat round.

The Opening fire step is done during each combat round in which there is an applicable unit in the battle.

Craig

[Krieghund]

Here is how a combat round breaks down:

Conduct Opening Fire: Attacking subs fire, and the defender chooses the casualties (he may not choose air units) and moves them behind the casualty line. Then, defending subs fire, and the attacker chooses the casualties (he may not choose air units) and moves them behind the casualty line.
Remove Opening Fire Casualties: If there are no attacking destroyers present, the attacker removes the units behind his casualty line. If there are no defending destroyers present, the defender removes the units behind his casualty line.
Attacking Units Fire: All attacking units that did not fire in the Opening Fire Step (including those behind the casualty line) fire, and the defender chooses casualties from those units not behind the casualty line.
Defending Units Fire: All defending units that did not fire in the Opening Fire Step (including those behind the casualty line) fire, and the attacker chooses casualties from those units not behind the casualty line.
Remove Casualties: Both players remove all units behind their casualty lines.
This cycle continues until the battle ends. No unit may fire in more than one step in the combat round.

Hope this helps!

[sadbttru]

Thanks..
that helps. confusing little buggers! :)

so....

if i am attacking with all subs against a fleet with no destroyer than i will get opening shots for each sub. does the defending fleet get to shoot back?

opening fire subs shoot
remove casualties
there are no attacking units (only subs)
defending units fire back
remove casualties
repeat

so in a way in this example each side gets to fire (subs opening, defenders step 4) without the other side being able to fire back?

[Krieghund]

If there are no subs in the defending fleet, that's true.

[sadbttru]

thanks!

nice quote by the way. just saw that episode yesterday!