GEN CON Indy 2006: Last Minute AA Info.

[smo63]

OK...now we are just three weeks away from the big show. Registration ends very soon, so, if you are still on the fence about going and playing in any of the AA tournaments offered, don't delay.

Here is the latest and greatest if you have not heard and one of the bigger discussion items on the Origins thread regarding playtime and stalling...

An new END TIME RULE will be placed into the official tournament rules for the AA Revised Tournaments (Masters/Mega) Here it is:

End Time Rule: Axis & Allies Tournaments

All games shall be played within the 3:45 allotted to each game. Given an approximate time frame of 40 minutes per turn, it is clearly expected that you should be able to complete FIVE full rounds if not more. There will be a “15 minute stoppage time" play at the end of the official 3:45, IF NECESSARY. This time will be used so that teams may finish up their final moves if they have not already done so and to finalize the game ending on US’s turn.

An announcement will be made with forty five minutes remaining. What this means is:

1) If, WITH forty five minutes left and the game is in the middle of a round (UK or Japan), the NEXT ROUND WILL BE THE LAST ROUND. (i.e. you have one hour (45 min. + 15 min. of stoppage time) to complete the round you are in, and possibility the next round if you so choose.

Officially, you may NOT start another game round if there is less than thirty minutes left in regulation play. This includes a game that is at the end of US’s turn within the thirty minute warning.

IF for whatever reason, both teams choose to start another game round before the thirty minute warning period and does NOT finish (US’s turn) when time is called at the end of stoppage time (3:45 + 15 min = 4 hours), the total IPC values with bonuses will be determined AT WHATEVER POINT THE GAME IS IN.

2 - If, WITH forty five minutes LEFT, you are at the beginning of the USSR turn, THIS ROUND WILL BE YOUR LAST. You may NOT start another round after the current round including Russia.

The judges will notify all players when 1 hour is remaining in regulation play and when the thirty minute warning begins. It is up to the individual teams to complete the last round of play within the time constraints, not the judges.

With this rule in place, all games should still achieve at least a 5 round game. If you do not, you are playing way to slow!

Masters Invitational Tournament: All games should get to round six. If not, again, you are playing too slow!

Also, if during the 3 Round Swiss play, if a team would decide to drop after two games because they would NOT be able to advance due to record, the team they would be playing in round three is still required to play a game (does not matter who the opponent is.) This game will NOT count towards their overall point total but it is to be played for the integrity of the tournament. This would guarantee, all teams must play three games before entering into Single Elimination round.

Masters participants should recognize that even if they finish 1-2 and thus are out of the Masters Tournament for the next year, consideration will be given to such teams for the 2007 Mega Tournament seeding as long as a team would not have dropped out after an 0-2 start.

I will be posting this on the Swamp shortly as well...

Peace,
Greg Smorey
Axis & Allies Tournament Coordinator, GCI/Origins

[smo63]

Gents,

Also, just a reminder, we are slated, again, to be located in the Ballroom 500. Exact same locale as the last two year. We will be in the front left of the room as usual. Very close to the smoking section doors just out side our area...Jake... :)

Thanks Lee Maile for taking care of us!

Peace,
GS:)

[squirecam]

Helpful Area links....

http://www.iccrd.com/pdf/iccmap.pdf (CC map)

http://www.iccrd.com/pdf/downtown.pdf (hotels)

http://www.iccrd.com/pdf/Restaurants.pdf (food)

http://www.iccrd.com/pdf/Airport.pdf (airport)

Squirecam

[ButchOHare1]

Squirecam are you bringing that huge travelling garbage can from the airlines again? I can save some space if you are bringing your games.

[squirecam]

Squirecam are you bringing that huge travelling garbage can from the airlines again? I can save some space if you are bringing your games.

no, flying southworst this time... but I'll have all my games.

Squirecam

[squirecam]

Gencon is in 2 weeks...

http://gencon.com/

Squirecam

[Robocop]

While getting reading for the gaming, a question for the more veteran attendees: Any good suggestions for eating around the downtown area? I reviewed Squirecam's posting, which has a list, but who will recommend (or recommend avoiding) certain spots? Last year, we mostly ate at the food court in the downtown mall, which worked okay (cheaper than the convention center, not too far away, but your generic fast food stuff). If someone has another suggestion, the rest of us would like to hear it.

[squirecam]

Look here, I'm sure theres more than a few threads..

http://community.gencon.com/forums/

Squirecam

[smo63]

Gentlemen,

I am currently in the delima of determining the penalty so to speak, of coming to some sort of final IPC total if a team chooses to CONCED a game in the Swiss play of any Revised Tournament: If a team chooses to concede the game before game time is called and or 9VC have NOT been obtained by one side or the other, for whatever reason; the final score of the game will be recorded as what? There are total of 351 IPC available with Bonuses under the current FTF tournamnet play.

What about: 251 VP for the winners; 100 VP for the losers regardless what the current IPC totals are on the board?

Comments welcome...

Peace,
GS:)

[Robocop]

I am currently in the delima of determining the penalty so to speak, of coming to some sort of final IPC total if a team chooses to CONCED a game in the Swiss play of any Revised Tournament: If a team chooses to concede the game before game time is called and or 9VC have NOT been obtained by one side or the other, for whatever reason; the final score of the game will be recorded as what?

How do you score a 9 VC win? (I've never seen or heard of one, but I imagine you have at least once?)

[smo63]

The first side to gain three cities instead of two or four?

GS:)

[squirecam]

The first side to gain three cities instead of two or four?

GS:)

I think he means what bonus does the player get for an outright win...

Squirecam

[smo63]

How do you score a 9 VC win? (I've never seen or heard of one, but I imagine you have at least once?)

Then please excuse my thick-headedness, but I am not sure I am following you?

GS:(

[Robocop]

Then please excuse my thick-headedness, but I am not sure I am following you?



Victory under LHTR is based on 9 VC held by either team at the end of the US turn, or based on total IPC points (with VC bonuses) at the end of the time allotted.

If one side has 9 Victory Cities in their control at the end of the US turn prior to the clock stopping, how do you score that victory? Do you add up the IPC totals with VC bonuses at that point to determine what score to give to each side? Or do you score the victory some other way?

Unfortunately, sometimes I communicate in a way that only some kind of wierd, non-human freak like a lawyer can understand what I write. Which might explain why Squirecam understood me.
(Yes, I'm one of those, too) :)

[smo63]

Victory under LHTR is based on 9 VC held by either team at the end of the US turn, or based on total IPC points (with VC bonuses) at the end of the time allotted.

If one side has 9 Victory Cities in their control at the end of the US turn prior to the clock stopping, how do you score that victory? Do you add up the IPC totals with VC bonuses at that point to determine what score to give to each side? Or do you score the victory some other way?

Unfortunately, sometimes I communicate in a way that only some kind of wierd, non-human freak like a lawyer can understand what I write. Which might explain why Squirecam understood me.
(Yes, I'm one of those, too) :)
ROBO...sorry about that. If one reaches 9VC before game time ends, that side wins regardless how many IPC they have gained...

GS:)

[squirecam]

ROBO...sorry about that. If one reaches 9VC before game time ends, that side wins regardless how many IPC they have gained...

GS:)

Yes, but he wants to know how that win is SCORED.

You dont just put "9VC win". You give a score. Is there a bonus for that win, etc.

Thats his Q.

Squirecam

Legal Interpreter :)

[CrazyStraw]

And because it is computer programmers who can parse syntax most precisely and predict the results of such syntax, I will now interpret for the lawyers and address the crux of this issue which has its genesis in an iteration of Swiss tournament play:

Greg, in a round-robin setup, such as the first portion of the Masters Tournament, the score the winners achieved is almost as important as the fact that they won. This is due to seedings in the Single Elimination being based on score.

So in the round robin, if you get 9 VCs, the game is supposed to stop even though it might happen long before the time expires.

So do you get your score at that time or is that considered to be a "total win" and you get all the possible points?

Think about the ramifications: if you only get your score at the time you get the 9th VC, then you are penalized points-wise because you could have gotten a higher score by taking fewer than 9 VCs but playing longer and taking more territory.

That's what the squires want to know.

Peace

[Muddog]

What about giving bonus points for reaching 9 VC's?

So if you are in the situation where no side reaches 9 VC's you use the scoring system.
If a team reaches the 9 VC's, then that team wins. Bonus points are extablished by the round the game is in:

3rd round victory = 60 points
4th round victory = 50 points
5th round victory = 40 points
6th round victory = 30 points
7th round or more = 20 points.

I do believe that a reward should be given for the team because that team reached the victory condition that other teams did not.

I also think you need some type of bonus because of odd situations. Two years ago at Origins, my teams opponents negleted a German transport and my team took Washington DC. The opposing team immediatly conceded because there was no way that England or America could retake the US on that turn. Under the current condition, my team would not of received as many victory points because the opposing team conseeded.

Please keep in mind that I think a team should still be able to conceed because you do not want to be in a situation where you have won/lost the game in round 3 and still have to play instead of going and enjoying the rest of the con. You may want to give a bonus to a team if their opposition concedes.

All this is under the assumption that the points are only used for tie-breakers and seeding.

Since this is my longest post ever, though not Yoper sized I will also add that I am not a fan of the round robin. I do not mind playing pick up games or playing other games at the tournament. I usually play in other tournaments but I only had 2 days at Origins this year and I was not happy because I was not able to play in the prolifera of other games because I was locked in the tournament.

Great job running the tournaments Greg and I am looking forward to seeing everyone at my first Gencon.

Thanks,
Roderick

[squirecam]

What about giving bonus points for reaching 9 VC's?

So if you are in the situation where no side reaches 9 VC's you use the scoring system.
If a team reaches the 9 VC's, then that team wins. Bonus points are extablished by the round the game is in:

3rd round victory = 60 points
4th round victory = 50 points
5th round victory = 40 points
6th round victory = 30 points
7th round or more = 20 points.



Nice idea.

Squirecam

[squirecam]

1 week to go...

Squirecam

[smo63]

What about giving bonus points for reaching 9 VC's?

So if you are in the situation where no side reaches 9 VC's you use the scoring system.
If a team reaches the 9 VC's, then that team wins. Bonus points are extablished by the round the game is in:

3rd round victory = 60 points
4th round victory = 50 points
5th round victory = 40 points
6th round victory = 30 points
7th round or more = 20 points.

I do believe that a reward should be given for the team because that team reached the victory condition that other teams did not.

I also think you need some type of bonus because of odd situations. Two years ago at Origins, my teams opponents negleted a German transport and my team took Washington DC. The opposing team immediatly conceded because there was no way that England or America could retake the US on that turn. Under the current condition, my team would not of received as many victory points because the opposing team conseeded.

Please keep in mind that I think a team should still be able to conceed because you do not want to be in a situation where you have won/lost the game in round 3 and still have to play instead of going and enjoying the rest of the con. You may want to give a bonus to a team if their opposition concedes.

All this is under the assumption that the points are only used for tie-breakers and seeding.

Since this is my longest post ever, though not Yoper sized I will also add that I am not a fan of the round robin. I do not mind playing pick up games or playing other games at the tournament. I usually play in other tournaments but I only had 2 days at Origins this year and I was not happy because I was not able to play in the prolifera of other games because I was locked in the tournament.

Great job running the tournaments Greg and I am looking forward to seeing everyone at my first Gencon.

Thanks,
Roderick

Now I really feel stupid. Because this has never happened, it did not even cross my mind, so thanks for enlightening me regarding what was being asked...now, on to the more pressing issue, how do we score that.

This goes along the same line as how do we penalize, or do we, the teams that would decide to conceed because the writing is on the wall? Or as CS said, do you just give them the points at the end of the time in which they stop playing...a very good point indeed.

Muddog, you come up with a great solution and will really be considered. I honestly need to think about this more...run it by Larry. He seems to come up with these things in his sleep. Much as he did the IPC victory conditions...but does a great job of doing so...

Thanks guys for setting me straight. So, in short Robo, back to your original question. I will be honest, at this time, we don't have a system in place because it has never happened since we have had the IPC victory points in place...

GS:)

[smo63]

Victory under LHTR is based on 9 VC held by either team at the end of the US turn, or based on total IPC points (with VC bonuses) at the end of the time allotted.

If one side has 9 Victory Cities in their control at the end of the US turn prior to the clock stopping, how do you score that victory? Do you add up the IPC totals with VC bonuses at that point to determine what score to give to each side? Or do you score the victory some other way?

Unfortunately, sometimes I communicate in a way that only some kind of wierd, non-human freak like a lawyer can understand what I write. Which might explain why Squirecam understood me.
(Yes, I'm one of those, too) :)

Robo, after re-reading it, I have to apologize about my misunderstanding of the question. I is now much clearer thanks to everyones input...and as I mentioned above, I will have to get back with you guys on this one...

Suggestions like Muddog's are always welcome...well except Yoper's long winded sermon's on rolling dice from his towers...!

GS:)

[CrazyStraw]

Quick thought: since getting 9 VCs has never happened, let's make it the real goal and really juicy.

I vote for giving the winners of a 9 VC game all the points on the board. It's the knockout blow.

Peace

[smo63]

Wow...I know that sounds enticing but, I am not sure many would go for that. But very tempting...it will be considered.

How about all of what you have and half of what is remaining from your opponent. All just seems very steep. It could of been a very close game that was won by just a few guys sqweeking into a territory?

Something to consider...?

GS:)

[squirecam]

I dont think the axis have a 9VC "squeeker."

The only allied one is karelia/phils/kwang, which isnt much of one either.

Squirecam

[Robocop]

Gentlemen,

I am currently in the delima of determining the penalty so to speak, of coming to some sort of final IPC total if a team chooses to CONCED a game in the Swiss play of any Revised Tournament: If a team chooses to concede the game before game time is called and or 9VC have NOT been obtained by one side or the other, for whatever reason; the final score of the game will be recorded as what? There are total of 351 IPC available with Bonuses under the current FTF tournamnet play.

What about: 251 VP for the winners; 100 VP for the losers regardless what the current IPC totals are on the board?

Comments welcome...

Peace,
GS:)

Getting back to the original question, the reason I asked about the scoring for a 9 VC win was that I thought that would be a good starting point (and maybe ending point) for the discussion about what to do with an opponent who concedes.

I would suggest for this year either using the 251/100 split suggested above, or adding up the points at the point of concession (plus using Muddog's suggestion for bonus points based on the round in which the opposing player concedes), maybe giving the winner the higher of the two point totals. The other option might be to look at the average points from the Masters games last year, or, perhaps, to reward the winning team better, the largest point differential from last year's Masters as a fall back score. When some team concedes to us this year ;) , I don't want to waste their time playing out one or two more turns when the writing is on the wall. As Lyle Lovett sings, "It's time for dinner, now let's go eat."

[smo63]

Getting back to the original question, the reason I asked about the scoring for a 9 VC win was that I thought that would be a good starting point (and maybe ending point) for the discussion about what to do with an opponent who concedes.

I would suggest for this year either using the 251/100 split suggested above, or adding up the points at the point of concession (plus using Muddog's suggestion for bonus points based on the round in which the opposing player concedes), maybe giving the winner the higher of the two point totals. The other option might be to look at the average points from the Masters games last year, or, perhaps, to reward the winning team better, the largest point differential from last year's Masters as a fall back score. When some team concedes to us this year ;) , I don't want to waste their time playing out one or two more turns when the writing is on the wall. As Lyle Lovett sings, "It's time for dinner, now let's go eat."

Great point. And great suggestions...thanks.

GS:)

[Yoper]

No long winded posts.

I figured this kind of stuff out a year and a half ago when I put together my event. While my scoring system is different, I had to come up with a score for the games in which a player concedes.

A set of tie-breakers for advancement to the SE bracket is also needed as I had multiple players vying for the last spot. Having the mechanisms in place ahead of time saves the GM alot of headaches.

The moral of the story is to have all of the possible scenarios planned for and to get all of your solutions down in writing so that all know how you are going to deal with any problems that come up.

Craig A. Yope
GM WBC A&A Event

[squirecam]

Gencon Week. :)

Squirecam

[smo63]

Yes, getting excited? I am...just way too many things to do in too short of a period of time...

See you guys Wednesday...

GS:)

[smo63]

Posting for the last time this week...over and out. See you guys at GEN CON!

Hopefully I will have all the great results up for your viewing pleasure on the Swamp early next week...

Until Then...Happy Hunting!
GS:)