Does any one know what MM the German Light Mortar (27/48) is? [Archive]

brwnx

08-11-2006, 08:11 AM

I just read the other day that a trained german soldier could have ten grenades in the air at the same time fired from a mortar (light, heavy, cant remember)....But I find that very impressive...

MrBluze

08-11-2006, 10:15 AM

Thanks, I also believe that the light mortar in the game was a 5 cm leichter Granatwerfer 36: 50 mm light mortar. I was not quite sure. I am dong some research for a scenario and was hoping that someone might have a defiant answer. Thanks again.
http://213.239.164.115/screensavers/nokia/1000075.gif

Richter von Manthofen

08-11-2006, 10:19 AM

I found a site not sure but look for something like ritterkreuztaeger.de or rk-traeger.de.

they have all the weapons of the WM listed.

its (sorry german): www.rktraeger.de
(http://www.rktraeger.de)

Halcyon

08-11-2006, 02:52 PM

The Granatwerfer 36 light mortar was pulled from production in 1942 I believe, because it's bomb was too weak for its intended purpose, and the mortar itself was overly complicated for its role. Thus, the mortar was gradually phased out of front line use. The mortar continued use until the end of WWII however by second-line units and garrison units.

The mortar was designed for high angle fire only, and had a rather limited range, on top of the fact that the 50mm round was too weak to cause signifigant damage.

Predator666

08-11-2006, 03:33 PM

If it was so weak then y didn't the germans make some other type of frontline mortar.

118th_MPCo_abn

08-11-2006, 04:40 PM

I just read the other day that a trained german soldier could have ten grenades in the air at the same time fired from a mortar (light, heavy, cant remember)....But I find that very impressive...

I find that very hard to believe.
I have a dummy "potato masher" and the damn things have to be "unscrewed before thrown.
There are a couple styles. The one I own has a "wingnut" on top that must be unscrewed to access a "lanyard" which is then pulled.
The other style has a cap at the bottom of the handle which is unscrewed for access to the "lanyard".
If the "wingnuts" and/or caps have already been removed from these grenades, then I could see a soldier being able to throw them at a high rate as he would only be required to pull the "lanyard".

Kaufschtick

08-11-2006, 05:58 PM

What is a MM?

It's a little candy coated chocolate. Why do you ask? :D

Halcyon

08-11-2006, 10:40 PM

If it was so weak then y didn't the germans make some other type of frontline mortar.

For frontline mortars, the Germans had them in various sizes, ranging from a 120mm to a 80mm mortar.

NEVjr

08-11-2006, 11:33 PM

I find that very hard to believe.
I have a dummy "potato masher" and the damn things have to be "unscrewed before thrown.
There are a couple styles. The one I own has a "wingnut" on top that must be unscrewed to access a "lanyard" which is then pulled.
The other style has a cap at the bottom of the handle which is unscrewed for access to the "lanyard".
If the "wingnuts" and/or caps have already been removed from these grenades, then I could see a soldier being able to throw them at a high rate as he would only be required to pull the "lanyard".
mortar bombs can be pre primed (maybe as simple as turning the fuse a quarter turn) and they just need to be droped down the tube to fire, they are propelled by a shotgun shell in the back of the bomb that goes off when it hits the stationary pin in the bottom of the tube, most dont have any kind of trigger system

NEVjr

08-11-2006, 11:34 PM

For frontline mortars, the Germans had them in various sizes, ranging from a 120mm to a 80mm mortar.
those are big mortars, not a light man portable unit

Richter von Manthofen

08-11-2006, 11:41 PM

There was a "shorrt" version of the 81mm SGrW, meant to be used by the paratroopers.

brwnx

08-12-2006, 12:35 AM

its in "with our backs against berlin" by Tony Le Tissier...

There's and amazing story from a Senior Sergeant Rogmann from Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler where he says the above qoute regarding the mortar rate of fire...

Photoner Hawkwind

08-12-2006, 08:07 AM

those are big mortars, not a light man portable unit

Correct, but the heavier mortars are also what I read the Germans replaced their light mortar with for their frontline mortars. The article I read didn't say anything though about having any new light man portable units.

protevangelium

08-14-2006, 01:59 PM

From everything I have read, the lack of a light infantry mortar was made up by an increase in automatic firepower: MG 42s, Stu44s, and so forth.

While playing on the hedgerow maps with the Germans, I experienced an absolute slaughter this Friday against Patton4014. In my 600-pt all-Wehrmacht force (50/50 armor and infantry; no aircraft on either side), I was creamed by a combination of heavy American AI firepower (that stupid M1 mortar!!), Shermans, and atrocious dice rolls. I even lost one out of three Tigers. My mistake was not taking enough machine-guns (had 4; needed at least twice that) and perhaps not even using the German light mortar. I noted that most of the engagment was at 4 hexes or less. That cheap mortar would have made up for all of my dead spoters and consequently useless 81mm moratrs.

Ironically, the most unexpectedly useful unit was probably the Puma heavy armored car. Two of them did more than the two Tiger I's and the Vet Tiger put together.

Richter von Manthofen

08-14-2006, 11:51 PM

All I know is that the 50mm went out of production mid war, but as so many were produced earlier they were used throughout the war...

GijoeNumberOne

08-15-2006, 02:25 PM

those are big mortars, not a light man portable unit
We're talking WWII here. The US M1 81mm mortar weighed 136 pounds and was carried by 3 men (the tube-44.5 lbs, bipod-46.5 lbs, & base plate-45 lbs), and the 60mm weighed 42 pounds total. By comparison, the German 81mm weighed 124 lbs and the 50mm, 31 pounds. As such, all mortars are considered "man portable" since they can be carried by men, no transports needed. (Wait until you see the German & Russian 120mm mortars; at 600+ pounds, they were still considered "man portable".)

protevangelium

08-15-2006, 04:17 PM

We're talking WWII here. The US M1 81mm mortar weighed 136 pounds and was carried by 3 men (the tube-44.5 lbs, bipod-46.5 lbs, & base plate-45 lbs), and the 60mm weighed 42 pounds total. By comparison, the German 81mm weighed 124 lbs and the 50mm, 31 pounds. As such, all mortars are considered "man portable" since they can be carried by men, no transports needed. (Wait until you see the German & Russian 120mm mortars; at 600+ pounds, they were still considered "man portable".)

Who's going to carry all the ammo? I thought German heavy mortars had a truck assigned to each crew. I might be wrong; I'll check my T&OE book later.

AATigers1

08-15-2006, 04:22 PM

It's a little candy coated chocolate. Why do you ask? :D

Specifically a dark german chocolate.

GijoeNumberOne

08-15-2006, 08:36 PM

Who's going to carry all the ammo? I thought German heavy mortars had a truck assigned to each crew. I might be wrong; I'll check my T&OE book later.
That depends. All members of the heavy weapons squad had to carry mortar shells (more commonly for the 50/60mm), but there were never enough to fire constantly for 7 - 10 minutes. Yes, supply vehicles were an integral part of a mortar crew (especially the 81mm and above) and are not visible in the game. That really isn't a bad thing as we have been doing that for the AT guns from the start and supply vehicles would clutter up the game. I've played 8 hour miniature games of far greater complexity, and we still don't use supply -- they complicate the game greater then they contribute.

In jungle fighting, and to some degree, Europe, it was common to use carts pulled by dogs, donkeys, horses, even men. Carrying a couple of 8 pound shells along with everything else a soldier needs, gets tiring real fast.

protevangelium

08-15-2006, 10:10 PM

That depends. All members of the heavy weapons squad had to carry mortar shells (more commonly for the 50/60mm), but there were never enough to fire constantly for 7 - 10 minutes. Yes, supply vehicles were an integral part of a mortar crew (especially the 81mm and above) and are not visible in the game. That really isn't a bad thing as we have been doing that for the AT guns from the start and supply vehicles would clutter up the game. I've played 8 hour miniature games of far greater complexity, and we still don't use supply -- they complicate the game greater then they contribute.

In jungle fighting, and to some degree, Europe, it was common to use carts pulled by dogs, donkeys, horses, even men. Carrying a couple of 8 pound shells along with everything else a soldier needs, gets tiring real fast.

This is all true. Still, it would be nice to have a truck available for each major combatant. And I also agree, supply elements in the game would simply clutter it, but having prime movers available isn't a bad thing.

GijoeNumberOne

08-16-2006, 09:36 AM

This is all true. Still, it would be nice to have a truck available for each major combatant. And I also agree, supply elements in the game would simply clutter it, but having prime movers available isn't a bad thing.
We do use prime movers in the really realistic miniature games (I'm not talking AAM here, folks) and would like to see them in AAM, even if only a generic version to be used by all nations. However, if we do get one, I'll bet we would quickly see another type of the jeepzooka. Instead to towing anything, they'll be used to suicidally haul bazookas, flamethrowers, commanders, etc. in the same manner jeeps are being used. It would take people like HHR to clean up the mess and make the truck act like a truck. In other words, as much as I'd like trucks, I don't think they would really be worth it.

protevangelium

08-16-2006, 12:27 PM

We do use prime movers in the really realistic miniature games (I'm not talking AAM here, folks) and would like to see them in AAM, even if only a generic version to be used by all nations. However, if we do get one, I'll bet we would quickly see another type of the jeepzooka. Instead to towing anything, they'll be used to suicidally haul bazookas, flamethrowers, commanders, etc. in the same manner jeeps are being used. It would take people like HHR to clean up the mess and make the truck act like a truck. In other words, as much as I'd like trucks, I don't think they would really be worth it.

To be honest, I don't think I've ever had any unit with the flamethrower ability succeed at ever toasting anything. The Marine flamethrower usually gets killed before he can do that. I guess a BAR for support would help.