Europe engulfed ( for historic play)

[boersma8]

Since many of us complain about the lack of historical accuracy in the AA product line and more specifically concerning miniatures, I was wondering which of you have actually played Europe engulfed and what your opinions are of this game.

Personally I think it's really great, historically speaking that is! Yes, it is much more complicated and at a strategic level unlike " miniatures" , but I can definately recommend this game to all those who'd like to see more historically accurate play......

So would anyone care to share their views??? ( a shame there are no miniatures, though, but that's rule technically impossible in EE)

[Yoper]

Try this game for more historic play:

http://www.ww2wargame.com./
http://ww2wargame.com/forum/index.php?topic=66.0

We are starting a new game this Friday.

Craig

[ButchOHare1]

I watched WWII:Struggle for Europe and Asia being played at GenCon. Looked very similar to A&A but with hundreds more spaces. They had played 10 hours and were still in 1942.

Europe Engulfed and Axis and Allies are very different games. EE is not complicated as wargames go. Block games are usually pretty simple games to play. It's a fine game if you can afford the price tag, can find an opponent, and can leave it set up for a few nights.

Axis and Allies is not a simulation. It's an abstract strategy game with a World War II theme. Unlike either of the above games it can be played in 1 night.

If you want a more historical game that can be played in one night I'd recommend GMT's WWII:Barbarossa to Berlin. The second edition was released last week. It's a card driven game similar to Paths of Glory.

[Imperious leader]

I was the first to buy the game. I own the delux version. It plays very well but it takes a long time. I am not fully satisfied of its concept, but it sure corrected alot of what AA sometimes lacks in terms of realism. MY main thing is the combat system has too many steps to finish. Its rather tedious system. Its not like you can simply roll things out from the board and everything has to be allocated to a complicated matrix on the battleboard. I love the production ideas however and all the historical things built in.

[TrimChris]

I just started playing WW2: BtB last week. It has a good learning curve for me, especially as I never played Paths of Glory. It's definitely interesting this far.

I've played EE only once and was a bit underwhelmed. I'd like to eventually give it a second shot. Especially with Asia Engulfed on the way.

[Yoper]

I was the first to buy the game. I own the delux version. It plays very well but it takes a long time. I am not fully satisfied of its concept, but it sure corrected alot of what AA sometimes lacks in terms of realism. MY main thing is the combat system has too many steps to finish. Its rather tedious system. Its not like you can simply roll things out from the board and everything has to be allocated to a complicated matrix on the battleboard. I love the production ideas however and all the historical things built in.

I actually like the varied ways in which the combat system plays out and I look forward to figuring out the proper combination of units needed to maximize my advantage.

Yes, it does take a long time to play, but my group can handle that. The one friend hosts and has room to store the game in between Friday nights. It typically take us 4-5 sessions (7-8 hours a session) to finish a game like this.

Craig

[boersma8]

Looks like a great game. The price tag really scaresmeoff big time, though! Though it's obviously a big improvement over A&A ( rulewise if you want more historical play, that is) there's nothing alittle houseruling can't fix using for instance Europe at war ( Xeno games) or even A&A revised. I realize you won't get nearly as much detail with the latter and with the former you'd have to make do without Asia, but things such as fortifications, supply and support units are not that difficult to blend in. Actually it's already been done many times. Although I really dig the miniatures as opposed to Europe engulfed, I think the rest of the rules don't add much ( if anything, e.g. it seems to me there's no fog of war here...) and since you can buy about 10 (!) copies of EE for one copy of " WW II Struggle", I'm afraid I'll have to pass on this one.........Pictures look great, though.......

[Imperious leader]

Hey ill sell you my copy. its in pristine condition. And i had the player aids laminated.The ruleset is in a hardbound notebook. $175.00

[Thoth]

$1,000 for the deluxe version! Was it worth it Imperious Leader? The game looks interesting and the $200 is steep but managable. So to reiterate boersma8's question...is it worth it? If your spending a few days playing it then it seems like a good investment. Alas, at the moment im in Japan and havent found any gamers...yet. Yoper,when i get back to Michigan I would love to check out the group you have going on downstate. Happy gaming all.

[Yoper]

Yes, I went with the "stripped down" version for the lesser amount.

I have spent a few bucks more to get some of the minatures for the few specialty units that I don't have plastic ones for.

Craig

[Imperious leader]

"$1,000 for the deluxe version! Was it worth it Imperious Leader? The game looks interesting and the $200 is steep but managable. So to reiterate boersma8's question...is it worth it? If your spending a few days playing it then it seems like a good investment. Alas, at the moment im in Japan and havent found any gamers...yet. Yoper,when i get back to Michigan I would love to check out the group you have going on downstate. Happy gaming all."


It was worth it for the pieces. I dont have that much time to play this game. It take alot of time to finish. I spent another 700.00 on skytrex pieces ( what they use mostly) and now i basically have all metal which is far superior than plastic. I wish those chaps well, but for me it does not represent my more than a good idea put to good use. Its not perfection as far as a game, but it has its moments. Id say its better than alot of other games.

Another thing that bugs me is how they dont have africa and the movement from the western and eastern half of the map is different. The aesthetics are pretty good, but im not hip on the colors and the contour of the continents, but thats just me. The game follows the real war very well but this direction is rather guided to say the least. The rules kinda guide you to perform the same way as historical. My offer still stands at $175.00 postage paid.

Make sure you all buy a crap load of pieces from skytrex.. they are the best for price and value.

[boersma8]

Hey ill sell you my copy. its in pristine condition. And i had the player aids laminated.The ruleset is in a hardbound notebook. $175.00

It's " struggle" you're referring to, right? And the down-stripped version, huh? Would you include the figures you acquired overtime yourself? ( I assume you bought Sturmoviks, Katyusha's Sdkf 251's etc.). Actually I wouldn't mind playing with plastic pieces. Are yours made of plastic or metal? If I do decide to buy ( I'm not sure yet, it's all very similar to A&A + some houseruling and terrain effects....) would you be able to send it to the Netherlands? How much for shipping would that more or less boil down to?

I just ordered EE for myself ( been playing with a friend's copy so far, but I also desperately want one for myself!). Unfortunately I've just heard they're out of stock and I'll have to wait for a reprint......I think it's a great game. Historically accurate (enough)and still playable ( unlike World in flames or Advanced third Reich.). I can live without the raw materails etc. being represented in the game. There are a few minor issues with the game, sure, but you'll always have that.I have them with " struggle" too ( I've read the rules) but it just costs so much more!

[Imperious leader]

Ok Its $175.00 including shipping plus all player aids are laminated and the ruleset is in a notebook. the map is rolled up in a mailing tube. You get two packages the notebook in one and the map in another. Everything is totally pristine. No pieces included. Goto Skytrex.com and buy what you need for like 3.20 USD you get 5 tanks. GHQ will cost you 8.95 and C and C will cost you 4.00 but you get only 4 tanks. YOu can buy that "axis and allies tank set" from C and C for 30 bucks and get 50 tanks.

If you order from hasblo a couple of additional sets, and use pieces from 2nd edition or find that ebay guy who sells millions of extra AA pieces youll be set for cheaper.

for planes goto www.brookhurst.com look under tumbling dice 1/700 scale planes 6 for 3.99 metal

[boersma8]

That's definately worth considering. I'll get back to you on this real soon!