Only one army at tourneys

[357FTG]

There is only one army that can be built to stand up to the hero army and any other army that it comes across, that is the hero army.

Any anti infantry build created to destroy the hero army is vunerable to an armor army.

a heavy armor unit has no hope to destroy the hero army, and airplanes really have no chance.

It is like WofC magic the gathering, on occuasion they have set releases that spon one or two decks that everyone uses in tourneys until the errata the set. Samething is happening here, only it will take longer since there are not allot of tourneys for AAM.

I believe (and hope) that wizards will take the information gathered at gencon and limit the number of heros in a tourney like they have channeler/Fireball.

[tragicmishap]

I have the feeling they will. I'm pretty sure I remember one of them saying on here that if people abused the Heroes, they would be limited.

[cannonfodder]

So it takes heros to kill heros. Yup. So put more in your armies. It's a way to limit the amount of armour out there. I, for one, was getting sick of seeing all armour builds. Infantry is the core of the army. Adding heros has taken us back to that, and I for one am happy.
Or, if you must then house rule or eliminate heros in your games.
Your choice.

[Raptor]

Except some of us don't feel you should have to buy a case (or more) to be able to put a competitive build together.

[tragicmishap]

Except some of us don't feel you should have to buy a case (or more) to be able to put a competitive build together.

I never bought a case :).

[357FTG]

Except some of us don't feel you should have to buy a case (or more) to be able to put a competitive build together.

You should not have to buy a case, shermans (u) usually do just fine until you add heros (u).

[Muenchausen]

Heroes are still a dime a dozen on ebay. OK, not really, you can get 2 - 4 for $.99 + shipping. A hellova lot cheaper than a case. All you need is 10 -11 per faction and your set for 100 point builds.

[tragicmishap]

"They're only little plastic soldiers and tanks."

[Arontje]

3x M1 88 Mortar
1x Screaming Egale Captain
5x Screaming Eagle Paratrooper
1x Resourcefull hero


I think this build has a fairly chance to stand up to an axis hero build.

The parabomb works against armour too altough it wouldnt be as effective as usual.

[J.L.Robert]

3x M1 88 Mortar
1x Screaming Egale Captain
5x Screaming Eagle Paratrooper
1x Resourcefull hero


I think this build has a fairly chance to stand up to an axis hero build.

The parabomb works against armour too altough it wouldnt be as effective as usual.

Swap out 1 Para with 1 Commisar + 2 Chinese Rifles. Purge the KMT Rifles only on "must kill" attacks from the mortars. After 6 +1 mortar strikes, the Commisar can then start canniballizing the mortars--destroy one to give the bonus to the other 2...

However, this build is still susceptible to the BMW strike.

[carson]

Except some of us don't feel you should have to buy a case (or more) to be able to put a competitive build together.


** And you don't. You can build the hero army for $20 or less(not counting shipping) just by ordering from various websites. Nevermind what you can trade for.....

[Qmark]

However, this build is still susceptible to the BMW strike.It's pretty damn crafty of those Germans to figure out how to cram a dozen grizzled vets onto one single little motercycle!

[Cruizin2000]

You fight fire with fire and cheese with cheese.

Skirmish games should have infantry and 1-2 AVFs at the most. Lots of infantry.

C2000

[Cruizin2000]

It's pretty damn crafty of those Germans to figure out how to cram a dozen grizzled vets onto one single little motercycle!


It all started with the VW bug.

C2000

[Autarch]

** And you don't. You can build the hero army for $20 or less(not counting shipping) just by ordering from various websites. Nevermind what you can trade for.....

LOL, WotC's own cheese has killed their overcosting-push/punish-units-to-get-customers-to-buy-more-boosters design philosophy/business model!

Once they figure this out, expect to see all manner of errata post haste.

[polish_horsy]

oohhh how is this for a "fun" army.

2x Imperial Sgt
2x Luftwaffe Infantry
6x Grizzled Superhero
4x Honor-bound superhero

The Luftwaffe guys prevent the short range plane attack on the bi-lingual Imperial Sgt. And allow for fast hero-spawning. And people tried telling me a month ago that hero-based armies wouldn't work... of course they will.

[Autarch]

It's pretty damn crafty of those Germans to figure out how to cram a dozen grizzled vets onto one single little motercycle!

That's called the German Clown Car build.

I like the Heavy Assault Russian Clown Car build: KV-1, Cossack Captain, 7 Heroes of the Soviet Union.

:)

[polish_horsy]

yeah but picturing heros spewing forth from a KV-1 is easier than imagining a stream of heros hoping out of a sidecar.

[Muenchausen]

It's pretty damn crafty of those Germans to figure out how to cram a dozen grizzled vets onto one single little motercycle!
I think this build would be counter productive. Could you imagine how any one Hero would feel after riding in a side car with 11 other Hero buddies. He'll probably feel humiliated and want to go hide his head in shame.

[Major Adler]

with all the bashing of the new hero units...those doing so must be of the opinion that AH did not play test them properly...so for their sake...perhaps some input from WOTC might be in order on this subject...

I think the hero units are just fine the way they are...and with no limit...

[Raptor]

Swap out 1 Para with 1 Commisar + 2 Chinese Rifles. Purge the KMT Rifles only on "must kill" attacks from the mortars. After 6 +1 mortar strikes, the Commisar can then start canniballizing the mortars--destroy one to give the bonus to the other 2...

However, this build is still susceptible to the BMW strike.

That's why you use the mortars on the bikes first.

[357FTG]

11 out of the BMW makes it a clown bike, has anyone checked the size of the heros feet? They should be huge.

[cannonfodder]

I like the image of the BMW whistling around the board using road bonus and High Gear. Out if this high speed spectacle Heros keep rolling to a stop all up and down the road. 1 right next to a Sherman then bang 1 right behind the mortars. Then whizzz roll roll roll another one drops to a stop on the objective just before the enemy arrives there. Then one slides to a halt beside it's own mortar unit to replace the 20mm AA gun that's just been destroyed. "Hmmm," mutters the player "where am I going to put the other 3?"
Actually, as outrageous as that sounds I still don't want limits on heros. None. Of any kind. They are beatable. Other heros can beat them. Mortars blow them up just fine. Allied heros can fall to the HtoH of Japanese Fanatics and Allied heros can be beaten by Gurkha Riflemens HtoH. I'm sure if we keep looking for ways to defeat them we will find them. As we do then they will become less prevalent in builds. It's a natural progression.

[Patton 68]

I'm sure if we keep looking for ways to defeat them we will find them. As we do then they will become less prevalent in builds. It's a natural progression.

Well said...that is the nature of warfare: a continual introduction of newer weapons and tactics,with opponents trying to one up each other ad infinitum.Heroes should only be limited by ones willingness to deploy them and their opponents ability to counter them.Remember: if you throw enough successes,you will kill them outright,negating their immunity to disruption.

[357FTG]

Well said...that is the nature of warfare: a continual introduction of newer weapons and tactics,with opponents trying to one up each other ad infinitum.Heroes should only be limited by ones willingness to deploy them and their opponents ability to counter them.Remember: if you throw enough successes,you will kill them outright,negating their immunity to disruption.


Allright, tell me, Oh gluru of war philosophy, how do you beat the hero army?

[cannonfodder]

Mortars and other heros. Done. Dead. Finished. Next.
Flamethrowers work well too. It doesn't matter what it is, 3 successes and poof, hero ashes everywhere. Of course you have to avoid getting CA'd if you use the flamer.

[Colonel_Coo]

I was hypothosizzing, hypothasizing, highpoth...

Err, I was thinking last night about the hero delima.

I've decided that the best defense against an All Hero army is a screened Mortar with Anti-tank gun support.

So here it goes,

Bar Gunner: 4pts each x7 = sum 28 points
US 81mm Mortar: 12pts each x3 = sum 64pts
Red Devil captain: 7points each x1 = sum 71pts
M18 Hellcat Tank Detroyer x1 20 points each = sum 91 points
Resourceful Hero: 8 pts each x1 = sum 99 points
Barbed wire: 1/2 pt each x2 = sum 100 points

Now this may be academic, but the Bar's should hold down the fort so to speak while the Mortars rain death. The Captain give -1 on cover rolls from the Mortar attacks.
The Hellcat is kept in reserve to sprint to whereever the US Hero Spawns. This would be preffered on or near the objective. The US Hero and the Hellcat should co-occupy the same hex as soon as possible.

The Barbed wire should be placed along avenues of approach for enemy infantry to allow the Mortars to rain death.

Control of initiative is vital, so I wouldn't mind shifting to all-infantry and bringing in the Para-commander. This changes how to play the US Hero (likely should not play him) and the tank buster. (a single plane to replace the Hellcat to free up points the few points needed for upgrade of the Red Devil commander to the Para-commander)

But with the Bar's suppressing the Hero's or enemy infantry and the Mortars knocking 1 or 2 off per turn, it should work.

Weaknesses are enemy Veteran Tigers. Hard to kill that 7 defense unit. The enemy SS-PG's die just like the heros.

[357FTG]

I believe that WofC saw the same thing I did at Gencon. There was one dominate build, nothing could touch it. In order to prevent 20 players from showing up at a tourney with exactly the same army (all the kids at our store were making the same build) they had to errate the Hero.

[Hum_35711]

oohhh how is this for a "fun" army.

2x Imperial Sgt
2x Luftwaffe Infantry
6x Grizzled Superhero
4x Honor-bound superhero

The Luftwaffe guys prevent the short range plane attack on the bi-lingual Imperial Sgt. And allow for fast hero-spawning. And people tried telling me a month ago that hero-based armies wouldn't work... of course they will.

I was saying when d-day first came out that hero armies wouldn't dominate and could easily be countered. I stand by what I said. There are several easy ways to trump heroes. Cover them with brens or bars. Bust them with mortars, or run them down with the Kv-1 / cossack capt. combo. Etc. Also, I still maintain that when you take too many heroes in your build, they will spawn too slowly, which will prevent you from contesting key hexes early in the game, and give your opponent a chance to get a few hits in on you while you are still at half strength.

[Hum_35711]

of course, now that the heroes have been limited, the argument is purely accademic.

[boersma8]

Allright, tell me, Oh gluru of war philosophy, how do you beat the hero army?

By limiting heroes to 1 per army which is basically exactly what's happened ;)