Is this game broken??

[Jinks]

I have played a few matchs and love this game , but after reading more and more posts on the forum I get the impression some units or rules have not been through extensive testing....so is there a "patch" coming to fix it?? ;)

With that said I was wondering how the values of the different units where worked out?

If I had to design a game like this I would have put values on the different stats(defense/attack/speed value) a unit has, after that I would put a values on all abilities, so in the end when I add up a units stats and the value of all its abilities I would get a total value of the unit that could be directly translated to the point value you build your army with.

Like a 4 in front defense would be = 8 points, 5 rear defense = 10 points, hard to spot +1 cover roll= 10 points, speed 3= 6 and so on, that way I think you would get a more precise point value of a unit.

Just my 2 cents :o

[Zeus[BTY]]

Welcome to the boards!

There are some things about the game which have been put there deliberately by WotC because it would make the game more "fun", but most of the forum visitors don't agree on their definition of fun...

The most important thing is how you yourself experience the game: if you're having fun with it playing it however you and your friends are playing it, then no amount of complaints from other players on the net should make it less fun for you ;) , and you shouldn't feel obliged to change the way you play just to make it less fun!

About point costs, unfortunately one of the things WotC considered fun is adjusting points values up or down randomly, so we would have a great time finding out what units were good or bad :rolleyes: . Weird, but it has been discussed a lot already, so I won't go into it... but after a few games, you can sit down, check out all the cards, and decide within half an hour which units are broken in this way and which aren't, and you'll have had the fun WotC meant for you :) .

Determining serious points values isn't as straighforward as you describe (although it's a good start), because there is an almost infinite amount of combinations of stats and special abilities, and not all combinations you can get for the same points are equal in effectiveness.

[Richter von Manthofen]

First of all: The game IS fun.

The rants here are mostly by - let me say older, historical minded gamers (like me ;)).

The game is NOT historical, as many of us wish, but we play nontheless.

But if you agree with the people you play with on some houserules (only one hero per build for example) you can avoid the things you do not like.

the bad thing (as in every collectible game) is that if you want to be sucessful in tourney you must buy and build the cheese.

[oddfellow]

First of all: The game IS fun.

The rants here are mostly by - let me say older, historical minded gamers (like me ;)).

The game is NOT historical, as many of us wish, but we play nontheless.

But if you agree with the people you play with on some houserules (only one hero per build for example) you can avoid the things you do not like.

the bad thing (as in every collectible game) is that if you want to be sucessful in tourney you must buy and build the cheese.

good post Richter... it seems like for a while "not historical" and "fun" were mutually exclusive on these boards. How much fun did/does everyone have with the original A&A board game? That was even more abstract than AAM (with the dice war boards and whatnot) but damn was it fun. I still wish they'd release an "advanced rulebook" for AAM with a bit more historical slant so you'd have the choice of "pick up and play" rules that take 1-2 hours, or a more deliberate 4-6 hour game. AAM in its current incarnation is still a fun game if you ask me.

[Jinks]

I agree this game IS fun and when somthing pops up looking to put the fun off balance then I'm sure me and my friends can agree to a fair houserule to put it right again.

Btw has anyone thought about merging the A&A board game with A&A Miniature.....man that game would take weeks to play :D

[Muenchausen]

I agree this game IS fun and when somthing pops up looking to put the fun off balance then I'm sure me and my friends can agree to a fair houserule to put it right again.

Btw has anyone thought about merging the A&A board game with A&A Miniature.....man that game would take weeks to play :D

We're doing that right now. I plan on posting a thread with pics as soon as we start a new game. This one should be over anytime now. I'll also post the rules.

[cannonfodder]

It is fun, and it ain't broke. At least from where I'm sitting.
Some units are very powerful, yes. Some units will end up in pretty much every competitive build, yes. That doesn't mean you have to use them in every fun game you play.
For games between buddies I usually build strange combos and try to see what works. I don't mind losing as long as I learn something (On Tuesday I learned that elite infantry -SSPGs- will die faster than regular infantry if the reg inf is in cover and the SSPGs aren't-damn it, next time I soften up the objective before I charge ever so slowly across the open plains.) The flip side of this is winning every game but not learning anything because you always play the same army the same way. Somewhere in the middle of that range is probably the happy place.
Win some, lose some, have fun either way.
Welcome to the boards. Enjoy the game.
Do you hear something? Sounds like mortars. Oops, dead SSPG.

[The_SunDance_Kid]

Its really funny to see people complain over and over again. Are you trying to look for some sympathy.
Just look at it this way. When you play do you have fun and a great time with your friends? If you do that’s what is intended. So what do you have to complain about? If you don't why the hell are you still around? Stop bringing the boards down, and do something a little more useful. We get the picture. You don't like this game! (for those who are vocal about it.)

[Cruizin2000]

Its really funny to see people complain over and over again. Are you trying to look for some sympathy.
Just look at it this way. When you play do you have fun and a great time with your friends? If you do that’s what is intended. So what do you have to complain about? If you don't why the hell are you still around? Stop bringing the boards down, and do something a little more useful. We get the picture. You don't like this game! (for those who are vocal about it.)


Here we go again - complaining about complaining is still complaining.

C2000

[The_SunDance_Kid]

Here we go again - complaining about complaining is still complaining.

C2000

Its not complaining. Its asking questions to why for those who continue to complain for so long and I was making a statement. Maybe I can open your eyes a bit. But you will probably still see the glass half empty with your attitude. why you stick around to complain. I just assume you like to complain. About something. Actually you NEED to complain about something.

[RBloom0566]

Several Points:

1) The Rules are broken--not the whole game.
2) The Game is fun--if house-ruled.
3) The Complaint is against the company, not the game itself.
4) You'll be rid of me soon. I've decided when my post count = my unit count, I'm done & gone from the boards. I'll lurk, maybe, but that's all.
5) You may be happy now.

[Cruizin2000]

This game is a blast!! I agree that some of the rules are units are "broken" or just not well thought out. The fact that the units costs were skewed is heartbreaking. I haven't found where this needs any house rules other than the Heros being limited to 1/100 points. Although I've made my own house rule for using a 3" hex map - I modified the waterways and use PatrickWR's idea about the buildings.

C2000

[Halcyon]

I like the game for what it is. I'm not a "Wargamer" by any stretch and I won't pretend to be. I've never played the classic Axis and Allies or any other games of its ilk, so playing this game is perfectly fine to me.

What DOES pisses me off is this attitude towards competitive play. Using words such as "cheap" and "cheese" to describe it as if the very act of playing an army to win is such a terrible deed.

[Jinks]

We're doing that right now. I plan on posting a thread with pics as soon as we start a new game. This one should be over anytime now. I'll also post the rules.

Awesome I'm looking forward to check it out :D

[118th_MPCo_abn]

The game is outstanding (my opinion).
Any rules I don't agree with I errata!
It's as simple as that.

I enjoy the game, and I enjoy playing the game with our local gaming group. I have been traveling about 50 miles every other week to do so for the past 6 months.
I don't see that ending any time soon.

[Kaufschtick]

Is this game broken? Is there a patch coming?

It seems there is a patch coming, and I would say that after this "patch" is in place that no, the game isn't broken. As for now, I'm undecided on whether to call it broken or not. Very, very bent in places...yes.

[DocD]

I don't think the game is broken....except when it comes to tourneys.
There is something wrong about having hundreds of units to choose from, yet in tournaments the same units show up in almost every build. That is surely a sign that more units are useless than not.

Even though the game isn't as historical as it could be, it is still pretty fun, with or without houserules.

[Avoll]

most people have been talking about the use or heros at Gencon tournaments
but although tournaments are fun to play in
they are not realE that much fun

the most fun you are going to have with this game is playing it with friends
it takes some of the fun outa the game if you try to win at all costs
and playing big games with friends lets you bring units you would never use in tournaments

over all its a game and its spose to be fun
and if you just play and have a good time, thats all that realE matters

[Lotus]

Indeed. As long as the game is fun, it ain't broken.

Building a scenario tonight finally that I mentally planned months ago. It has nothing to do with points and everything to do with objective. It will be played by a large group of friends and the ability of each is taken into account so that they have fun and challenge.

Some of the units used might be considered 'broken' for tournies, but they fit perfectly in this case. Vise-versa.

The game accomodates both. Not perfect. Not broken either.

[Kaufschtick]

There is something wrong about having hundreds of units to choose from, yet in tournaments the same units show up in almost every build. That is surely a sign that more units are useless than not.

Even though the game isn't as historical as it could be, it is still pretty fun, with or without houserules.

To me DocD, that's the big difference between the so called "power gamers" and the so called "historical gamers". The "power gamers" are simply people who focus on the pieces that are going to be useful in winning, which is the point of the game. The "historical gamers" want to see the value in all the pieces to link it to the historical aspect of the game, otherwise why even include them in the game.

Regardless, it's good for the game and all of us to have one set of clear, constistent rules to use so that we all may have a common thread to link us all together in a community no matter your preference of gameplay style.

[cannonfodder]

I play it as is. No house rules, and I don't think a darn thing is broken. The game has evolved over time and that's good.
The one thing I have noticed is that there are camps on these boards. Some like the game, some, apparently, hate the game, and some like it but want it changed to suit what they think the game should be. Good. We shouldn't all be the same. But, by now, I think we all know where everyone stands on this issue. Seeing the same comments over and over again gets boring. I know I don't want to type this post out again. I know some of you want things changed, and I know that you know that I like it just the way it is. Good, we all get it. Now can we talk about tactics, or builds, or how to beat heros, or how to kill a Sherman swarm. Or the weather. Or Maria Sharipova (nice pic Stoj).