War at Sea Pricing/Rarity

[WotC Bob]

Starter Set: $24.99, 1 Rare, 2 Uncommon, 8 Common

Booster: $14.99, 1 Rare, 1 Uncommon, 3 Common

For scale, the Iowa is just a shade under 6" long. The Enterprise is about 5 3/8" long and a U-Boat is about 1 1/2". Yes you can see the U-Boat.

[Remember-OWS-]

Same price as AAM... mmmmmmmmm
I will have to see the quality first...
If it is the same as Dreamblade maybe!

[Richter von Manthofen]

How many rares uncommons and commons in the set??

How many boosters to th case?

i think I will at least want a case - just for fun

6" seems OK ;)

[WotC Bob]

12 Boosters per carton

6 starters per carton

Don't know about total set collation yet.

[TheJudge]

Cool, good to know, thanks.

[Cruizin2000]

Wow!! This sounds cool!! Size DOES matter!!

I wonder if the distribution will be the same as in no repeat rares. 24 rares? 2 cases.

Let's just wait and see...

C2000

[Richter von Manthofen]

Thanks BOB that helps a bit. It seems I have to skip on reserves ;) to get WAS.

[RBloom0566]

Starter Set: $24.99, 1 Rare, 2 Uncommon, 8 Common

Booster: $14.99, 1 Rare, 1 Uncommon, 3 Common

For scale, the Iowa is just a shade under 6" long. The Enterprise is about 5 3/8" long and a U-Boat is about 1 1/2". Yes you can see the U-Boat.

*Shudders* Ooooh...BIIIG battleships!

<edit> Time to go to Home Depot and buy a couple more Tool Boxes!

[dictator_wanna_be]

Hmmmm 1 uncommon in a booster... thats gonna be interesting, I wonder how it will effect their value! :cool:

FYI i tend to be a land lover... so I'll wait for the game mechanics before i get all crazy.

[Sean-Khan]

Ouch... that's expensive. But they sound impressively big... Intriguing :) Thanks for the info, Bob!

I'm just afraid of the cost here in Finland - a starter & a case would give 13 rares, 14 uncommons and lots of commons. I guess that gives 2/3 of the units, and plenty of choises, but the cost? About $270. I can't afford that kind of sums for minis anymore :( Starter & 1/2 case would give 7 rares & 8 uncommons, and 23 commons... I wonder if that's enough to play some interesting games?

Wait - if the ships are that large, where the heck are they manoeuvered? :eek: I'd say that a square is 6" then, and 30"x40" would only be 5x~7 squares. Doesn't sound right...

[Cruizin2000]

Ouch... that's expensive. But they sound impressively big... Intriguing :) Thanks for the info, Bob!

I'm just afraid of the cost here in Finland - a starter & a case would give 13 rares, 14 uncommons and lots of commons. I guess that gives 2/3 of the units, and plenty of choises, but the cost? About $270. I can't afford that kind of sums for minis anymore :( Starter & 1/2 case would give 7 rares & 8 uncommons, and 23 commons... I wonder if that's enough to play some interesting games?

Wait - if the ships are that large, where the heck are they manoeuvered? :eek: I'd say that a square is 6" then, and 30"x40" would only be 5x~7 squares. Doesn't sound right...

Perhaps the game is like Avalanche Presses naval war games like Plan Orange, Plan Black, etc? The map is used for plotting and air attacks?

It says that you get TWO maps - hidden movement? This game cannot be too complex. We'll just have to wait.

C2000

[TheCygnysGuardian]

12 Boosters per carton

6 starters per carton

Don't know about total set collation yet.

Quick question; how do you get these 'cartons'?

[Cruizin2000]

Quick question; how do you get these 'cartons'?


Online vendors. They are cheaper than the old FLGS are - ALOT cheaper.

C2000

[TheCygnysGuardian]

Online vendors. They are cheaper than the old FLGS are - ALOT cheaper.

C2000

Thank you, anyone know any good ones?

[Cruizin2000]

Thank you, anyone know any good ones?


PM coming your way!!

C2000

[WotC Bob]

Quick question; how do you get these 'cartons'?

Carton = case.

[Lagduf]

Thanks Bob, knowing the size of the ships is great.

Prices for boosters/starters seem great given the size of the ships.

A question: As with AAM am i wrong to assume that rarity is based on size of the miniature, moveable pieces, and painting?

If so at least we'll be getting some "big guns" so to speak in every pack.

[Taisho_Alex]

Can we get a distribution of rarity in the set? (how many rares, how many uncommons, how many commons?)

Pwetty puhlease :)

[Stojakovic]

Move over rubber ducky! bath time just got better :)

[Predator666]

I have to see the quality. Only 5 per and the rares as it sounds are going to be the big ones. Meaning its harder to get them. Unless the quality is amazing I can't see buying only 5 for the same price I can get 9 for in AnA minis. The quality has to be good for me to invest.

[hornet69]

yes thanks bob ,and how about the distibution of the 64 pieces .how many rares ,uncommons and commons .how many pieces are aircraft.are any aircraft rare.
and the big one some pics of the pieces bob .

[Sean-Khan]

I just came to realizing... I might enjoy these minis as collectable pieces - I'm just afraid that getting Yamato, enterprise, Tirpitz and other very unique ships will probably be very hard to get.

So, after seeing the price and the size of the minis, the best reason to buy these would be just for their coolness factor. Therefore I agree Predator & others saying they want to see the quality. I also remember earlier blunders.

Anyone else wanted to build some ww2 warship kits as a kid but got frustated about attaching 50 tiny aa-turrets to the ships? :P

[Sean-Khan]

yes thanks bob ,and how about the distibution of the 64 pieces .how many rares ,uncommons and commons .how many pieces are aircraft.are any aircraft rare.
and the big one some pics of the pieces bob .
Hey, there's plenty of time before the release, and I'm afraid we're not getting much more bones for some time now :D

[horacus]

Interesting. It depends on the Quality of the figures.

But first of all:Reserves.

[WotC Bob]

The only thing I would have to show pictures of would be the paint masters. When I have production pieces in, I'll throw something up.

[Lotus]

Thanks Bob. All info appreciated.

A cheaper booster might have had me collecting both WaS and regular A&AM but can't have everything. I'll get a few to try it but realistically now I have to pick one or the other. Not both.

[AudieMurphy]

I don't think I will be a client for this.
I'm not a big fan of naval battles but I must say the mechanics seem interesting enough.
The problem is too few units per booster.
I understand that there are oversize pieces, but D&D and Star Wars both carry oversize units and have more pieces than that in their boosters.

Also, how can there be uncommon and rare units if they both have the same distribution in a booster????
Especially if there are equal numbers of rares/uncommon/commons in the set list as in A&AM (15 of each).
I don't feel like I'm getting my money's worth here.
Sorry, but I'm not in.
And I think this will flop and the upcomming set will be the first in last of that game.

[mdescalzo]

I foresee WaS doing well on eBay. People are going to bust it open by the case and sell the pieces. With so few units per booster, it will be more convenient to buy the units you want than to take your chances on a 5-ship box.

[Muenchausen]

Bob, I would also like to know what the ratio of rares to uncommons to commons is. I thought this would have been 1/2400th scale but it sounds more like 1/1800's or maybe even larger. Regardless , I think my preorder just got bigger. :D

[WotC Bob]

Bob, I would also like to know what the ratio of rares to uncommons to commons is. I thought this would have been 1/2400th scale but it sounds more like 1/1800's or maybe even larger. Regardless , I think my preorder just got bigger. :D

1/1800 for ships and submarines, 1/900 for aircraft

[Stojakovic]

1/1800 for ships and submarines, 1/900 for aircraft

wow. Those are going to be small planes. very very small. :D Micro Machines with a punch.

[Modern Major-General]

Wow, six inch models sounds great.

But to echo a few other posters, the boosters will have one uncommon and one rare unit means that the uncommon will be just as rare as the rare, yes? I just do not see that as a selling point.

[Muenchausen]

wow. Those are going to be small planes. very very small. :D Micro Machines with a punch.

Probably a little smaller then the aircraft in the A&A games. My guess would be about half the size.

[richyj1]

If there were more rares than uncommons (in terms of number of minis in each category), then there would be fewer instances of each rare available. While each booster has the same number (1) rare and uncommon, you'd likely have multiples of the uncommons prior to collecting all of the rares.

[Muenchausen]

If memory serves me correctly, which it doesn't, I had a collection of models that were very close to this scale. The company was Japanese. Don't remember the name. They modeled some of the capitol ships of WWII. The detail was impressive for the scale. I hope these will rival or even be better than those.

[Modern Major-General]

Yeah, now that I gave it some thought, that is how the rarity of units would have to be done in order to sell one uncommon and one rare in a booster. So, something like 20 rares, 14 uncommons, and 30 commons. Just a guess.

[Captain_Blackadder]

Starter Set: $24.99, 1 Rare, 2 Uncommon, 8 Common

Booster: $14.99, 1 Rare, 1 Uncommon, 3 Common

For scale, the Iowa is just a shade under 6" long. The Enterprise is about 5 3/8" long and a U-Boat is about 1 1/2". Yes you can see the U-Boat.

First off the scale of the ships seems really nice,that said I must voice my discontent over the number of minis in thier respective packaging.The starter set IMHO should have 2 rares 4 uncommon 8 common,it IS a starter set.Call mt Mr.Picky but I would be kinda ****** if my opponent got a carrier/battleship and I did not.

The boosters would be fine with 1 rare 2 uncommon 3 common as this would easily allow collectibility for the game and now doubt create less doubling of minis.

Given that nothing is set in stone about this game as of yet I urge WOT to consider the amount of minis in the starters/boosters,it is only plastic and made very cheaply in another country.It may turn out to be a wicked and fun game but I for one will not buy into it if it will be disgustingly expensive to aquire all the rares/uncommons...a booster for AAM has 9 minis...no they are not 6 inches long (well a higgins boat is close but it is nearly useless and you have to have 10 for a decent beach invasion scenario).

Heed the cry WOT....and evrybody else please join the chorus...MORE MINIS PER PACKAGE FOR OUR HARD EARNED DOLLARS

[Remember-OWS-]

They will lower the plastic quality if we ask for more mini's :mad:

[TheCygnysGuardian]

Any idea what the 'common' ships would be, i.e. destroyers, PTs, cruisers?

[RBloom0566]

Any idea what the 'common' ships would be, i.e. destroyers, PTs, cruisers?

PT Cruisers? *Snicker*
Just being facetious. Can't help but laugh at all the prognostication going on about a product that is still the best part of a half-year away. Not like they're going to tell you anything but teasers anyway. May as well grow a little patience.

[TheCygnysGuardian]

PT Cruisers? *Snicker*
Just being facetious. Can't help but laugh at all the prognostication going on about a product that is still the best part of a half-year away. Not like they're going to tell you anything but teasers anyway. May as well grow a little patience.

I hear ya, just getting a little ahead of myself. :o

[Autarch]

*Shudders* Ooooh...BIIIG battleships!

<edit> Time to go to Home Depot and buy a couple more Tool Boxes!

These things are huge. Toolbox? Better get a steamer trunk... :)


Wait - if the ships are that large, where the heck are they manoeuvered? :eek: I'd say that a square is 6" then, and 30"x40" would only be 5x~7 squares. Doesn't sound right...

I surmised this in another thread, this game looks like more of an operational than tactical game. The map would be at most 30 zones/sectors 5x6 if you want to be able to fit the monster 6" Iowa into a zone. But the contents list TWO 30"x40" battlemaps: one for each side. So it may be possible each map depicts the immediate area around each squadron and distance between the two is kept track of for relative ranges. After all, what is the point of depicting empty ocean in between two formations? A brilliant concept, though your formations couldn't be longer than 5 or 6 ships depending on stacking per zone on each individual map. Then I suppose if the the relative range is point blank, both maps could be joined together. The attack ranges given on the card may actually relate to relative distances the size of the map, so a range of three would be the equivalent three actual maps, where movement may refer to zones within an individual map.

But if map/gun range/movement are all relative, and each players map depitcts the same area for search and hidden movement, then there's no way you could recreate the first battle of Savo Island with ships of this size in their historic battle formations on a map this small. Obviously the map is not to scale with the ships, and assuming each zone is about 8km, you could easily recreate a good sized area (1 hex for you Flat Toppers which would cover Savo Island and Iron Bottom Sound) but my point is there would be absolutely no room for tactical maneuver. You'd basically be pushing piles of ships around from zone to zone (like in the A&A board games) instead of manuevering individual ships.

1/1800 for ships and submarines, 1/900 for aircraft

WotC goes with the proprietary/niche scale, acing out competition but also closing the door to other gamers who might be interested in augmenting their existing fleets.

The concept of 1 to 1 rare to uncommon per booster is a bit off putting. Even with more rares than uncommons, these things are going to be going for waaay more than A&AM rares are going for now on ebay.

PT Cruisers? *Snicker*
Just being facetious. Can't help but laugh at all the prognostication going on about a product that is still the best part of a half-year away.

But it's so much fun!

[hornet69]

The only thing I would have to show pictures of would be the paint masters. When I have production pieces in, I'll throw something up.
thanks for the info bob.and i say show us them any way.wet thy appettites

[J.L.Robert]

Also, how can there be uncommon and rare units if they both have the same distribution in a booster????
Especially if there are equal numbers of rares/uncommon/commons in the set list as in A&AM (15 of each).


That's an assumption I am not making. If there is a guaranteed Rare and Uncommon per booster, the only way to distinguish an Uncommon from a Rare would be to have fewer Uncommons.

Don't be surprised to see 24 Commons, 16 Uncommons, and 24 Rares. Or, even worse, 16 Commons, 16 Uncommons and 32(!) Rares.

More Rares = more sales to collectors. And this game looks like it is being catered to collectors more than players.

[boersma8]

Starter Set: $24.99, 1 Rare, 2 Uncommon, 8 Common

Booster: $14.99, 1 Rare, 1 Uncommon, 3 Common

For scale, the Iowa is just a shade under 6" long. The Enterprise is about 5 3/8" long and a U-Boat is about 1 1/2". Yes you can see the U-Boat.

How much is that in centimetres?

[Sean-Khan]

How much is that in centimetres?
1" = 2.54cm. So, we're talking about 15cm ships here... that's twice the size of DDM/SWM Huge bases :)

[Shrapnelsmile]

These things are huge. Toolbox? Better get a steamer trunk... :)



I surmised this in another thread, this game looks like more of an operational than tactical game. The map would be at most 30 zones/sectors 5x6 if you want to be able to fit the monster 6" Iowa into a zone. But the contents list TWO 30"x40" battlemaps: one for each side. So it may be possible each map depicts the immediate area around each squadron and distance between the two is kept track of for relative ranges. After all, what is the point of depicting empty ocean in between two formations? A brilliant concept, though your formations couldn't be longer than 5 or 6 ships depending on stacking per zone on each individual map. Then I suppose if the the relative range is point blank, both maps could be joined together. The attack ranges given on the card may actually relate to relative distances the size of the map, so a range of three would be the equivalent three actual maps, where movement may refer to zones within an individual map.

But if map/gun range/movement are all relative, and each players map depitcts the same area for search and hidden movement, then there's no way you could recreate the first battle of Savo Island with ships of this size in their historic battle formations on a map this small. Obviously the map is not to scale with the ships, and assuming each zone is about 8km, you could easily recreate a good sized area (1 hex for you Flat Toppers which would cover Savo Island and Iron Bottom Sound) but my point is there would be absolutely no room for tactical maneuver. You'd basically be pushing piles of ships around from zone to zone (like in the A&A board games) instead of manuevering individual ships.



keep in mind, if adaptable in any way, many of us will simply convert to a flex tape measure system.

[starwiz76]

well at least the price don't sound too bad. I will indeed be buying now.

[cannonfodder]

6" minis on a board 30 by 40 inches, sounds crowded. Of course if they make the planes to the same scale then a good sneeze would blow the entire air wing across the room. "Is that a plane?..No, I think it's a drop of ink." Oh well, I'm sure they've thought of that...:D
I'll be staying with A+A minis for now. I can't afford two investments like this. I hope a friend of mine will commit and buy the whole damn thing. Then I'll just borrow. Not so good for WoTC but they'll already getting everything I don't spend on bills, rent, and food.

[polish_horsy]

I think they should put it on a 10 by 10 grid and drill 2 to 5 holes in the middle of the miniatures. You setup your fleet on your map while your opponent sets up on his map. Then you shout out B-7! And your opponent yells Hit! Then you stick a red peg into the miniature. That would be a cool game.

[Joisey]

Six inch battleships are a scale I could be happy with. Does this mean that the SWM Star Destroyers are going to be 6 inches long too?

Of course, the important corollary to scale is CONSISTENCY. Will WotC be up to the task this time around?

1 rare for every 5 minis sounds like a whole lotta doubles if the rares are going to be indentified by name. Wonder how many rares will exist out of the first 64 minis?

I wonder what kind of stacking limitations, if any, will exist for fleets per sea zone?

Guess I'm getting interested in this release, despite myself. :)

[polish_horsy]

those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I'll be buying those doubles from y'all on ebay in 2008. I'll offer $6 per booster.

[Cruizin2000]

Based on SWM, there was 60 pieces in the Universe set and 60 pieces in the ROTS set. Of those 60, 28 were noted as rare/very rare. With 64 pieces in this set, will they go the same route with the rares? I would hope not for us but for them I could see that happening.

I'm with the guys that posted they want "classes" rather than individually named ships.

C2000

[whitewind]

Six inch battleships are a scale I could be happy with. Does this mean that the SWM Star Destroyers are going to be 6 inches long too?
Yep.... seems about right....6" or so. Wonder if there will be similarities in play?

[Cruizin2000]

Something that bothers me about this game is, for instance, there were 4 Kongo class battlecruisers. That means, historically, once you get 4 of them, you're done. With A&AM, if you get 4 Pnzr IVs, so what, there were more than 4 and they're all usuable in larger point games. You get your fifth or sixth Kongo and you're stuck unless you know someone else with deep pockets that will trade you. I like the idea of this game coming out but I'm not sure if I'm going to buy any. You only have some much shelf/curio space to display the extras.

C2000

[RBloom0566]

those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I'll be buying those doubles from y'all on ebay in 2008. I'll offer $6 per booster.

Not from ME you won't! I'll just collect them all if nothing else, but I know I'll have at least one person to play against; others if I want to make the trip to Tidewater.

[Autarch]

Of course, the important corollary to scale is CONSISTENCY. Will WotC be up to the task this time around?


This is one of my main areas of concern. At this scale (1/1800?) it should be easy enough to detail ships enough to differentiate between individuals of the same class and different years. At a smaller scale, these minor details would be left out and it would be easier just to release a class of ship, rather than an individually named ship.


1 rare for every 5 minis sounds like a whole lotta doubles if the rares are going to be indentified by name. Wonder how many rares will exist out of the first 64 minis?


This is also a concern. I'd rather have 2 Yorktown class CVs than a serperate, named Yorktown and Hornet that look almost identical taking up a rare slot.


I'm with the guys that posted they want "classes" rather than individually named ships.
C2000

The main reason I agree with this is because we've seen what the sculptors have done with tanks in A&AM based on the same hull/chassis (line up all your tanks based on the Panzer IV hull and see what I mean). The scaling is all over the place. With named ships of the same class, are we going to get noticeable differences in scale or quality of detail?

If released by class, I could stomach the fact that the even though all the Yorktown class CVs look identical, I know the Enterprise had more AA guns than the other two etc. I don't think I could stand the fact if I put the Enterprise by the Hornet and it is 10% larger and the Hornet's detail makes it look like it sat in the sun too long...

Something that bothers me about this game is, for instance, there were 4 Kongo class battlecruisers. That means, historically, once you get 4 of them, you're done. With A&AM, if you get 4 Pnzr IVs, so what, there were more than 4 and they're all usuable in larger point games. You get your fifth or sixth Kongo and you're stuck unless you know someone else with deep pockets that will trade you. I like the idea of this game coming out but I'm not sure if I'm going to buy any. You only have some much shelf/curio space to display the extras.

C2000

Yes, I think trading will be more of a factor in WaS than in A&AM. At least for those insane enough to want to try and fill out Historical Naval rosters with WAS minis. :)

[Joisey]

One thing that hasn't been explored yet: At 1/1800 scale, will the capital ships be big enough for the miniature sculptor to put the actual name of the ship on the mini? This would be the stern for most ships. What about the identifier number on the bow of a U.S. capital ship, e.g. BB 04 or CA 123? This will pretty much ruin aesthetically the idea of calling duplicates other ships of the same class.

Would the names of Japanese ships be in Japanese characters, or in English?

Will the miniature sculpting be done by the infamous "Chinese subcontractor" who did the Mess-o-Spit?

Buying Strategy: Seems to me that buying this I'll do the same thing I've done with the Wizkids Pirates game: Buy about 12 packs of each set as an initial purchase, this being about the tipping point where you start to turn up duplicates. From there fill out the rest of the set with after-market purchases of singles.

If the packaging really is going to produce a glut of duplicate rares, then it stands to reason there will be an abundance of fairly cheap singles to buy on the internet. One might even choose to do all your purchases via after-market vendors, as this would allow you to build just the national fleets that you are really interested in.

[Joisey]

Here's another thing I don't get: The preview marketing hype says:

Unique ships—such as the BB Bismarck, IJN Yamato, and the USS Enterprise—feature their distinctive markings and camouflage.

Now, how much camouflage, exactly, would you see on a WWII naval vessel? Aren't we going to see pretty much just shades of grey? And if there was one area where it would make sense/be justifiable to save production costs, wouldn't it be here, where nobody really expects an unusual paint job?

I'm aware of the British experimenting with some Zebra striping of destroyers and escorts in the North Atlantic, but I don't think this was found to be all that effective. I don't recall seeing any photos of this being done with capital ships.

[Photoner Hawkwind]

One thing that hasn't been explored yet: At 1/1800 scale, will the capital ships be big enough for the miniature sculptor to put the actual name of the ship on the mini? This would be the stern for most ships. What about the identifier number on the bow of a U.S. capital ship, e.g. BB 04 or CA 123? This will pretty much ruin aesthetically the idea of calling duplicates other ships of the same class.

Would the names of Japanese ships be in Japanese characters, or in English?

Will the miniature sculpting be done by the infamous "Chinese subcontractor" who did the Mess-o-Spit?

Buying Strategy: Seems to me that buying this I'll do the same thing I've done with the Wizkids Pirates game: Buy about 12 packs of each set as an initial purchase, this being about the tipping point where you start to turn up duplicates. From there fill out the rest of the set with after-market purchases of singles.

If the packaging really is going to produce a glut of duplicate rares, then it stands to reason there will be an abundance of fairly cheap singles to buy on the internet. One might even choose to do all your purchases via after-market vendors, as this would allow you to build just the national fleets that you are really interested in.

I remember reading someplace that they aren't sure yet if they will make a second set. So hopefully it won't be run into the ground like Pirates.

Also if we buy a lot from the after market area such as ebay, it will allow folks like Muenchausen to buy a few cases and sell his dupes.

[elbowsanchez]

well if anything, I can use these navy units for my Axis & Allies custom board game.

ES

[WotC Bob]

Having seen both the SWM Starship Battles and War at Sea, I can say they are quite different.

Now, as for War at Sea rarity, I believe someone actually guessed the ratio correctly:

24 rare, 16 uncommon, 24 common.

[Lynx7725]

Which means a single case of boosters would net you only 1/2 the rares, and 4 short of the uncommons. Not good.

As for scale, 1/1800 for ships is understandable; 1/700 waterlines from Tamiya etc. is quite big. However, I would have thought going with 1/700 planes would have made more sense, since WotC could have simply subcon the production contract out to existing model builders and just concentrate on the paint steps...

[Joisey]

Seems like a high number of rares. Are planes all common? Could some rares be planes (maybe the PBY?)

The U.S. went through 3 different mainline carrier fighters through the war, plus two different dive bombers. Add in the PBY and that's SIX planes just for the U.S.!

Give the Japanese at least 3 or four of their own (fighter, dive bomber, torpedeo bomber, and spotter) plus two for the Brits (fighter and Swordfish), a few for the Italians and at least a sea plane for the Germans.

That would make planes about half of all commons, if they are commons.

[Bobsalt]

One thing that hasn't been explored yet: At 1/1800 scale, will the capital ships be big enough for the miniature sculptor to put the actual name of the ship on the mini? This would be the stern for most ships. What about the identifier number on the bow of a U.S. capital ship, e.g. BB 04 or CA 123? This will pretty much ruin aesthetically the idea of calling duplicates other ships of the same class.
Well, it would make sense from a marketing standpoint though. By producing named miniatures for each of the Iowa Class BB’s, each in a different camouflage measure, you sell more rather than if you just produce one ship for the class.

Would the names of Japanese ships be in Japanese characters, or in English?
As to markings, this will depend on whether the miniatures are detailed and historically accurate or are “detailed and historically accurate” (ala Axis & allies Miniatures). If they are detailed and historically accurate the Japanese ships would have characters in Hirigana; US aircraft carriers will have blue flight decks with very dark blue numbers at either end of the flight deck, etc. If they turn out to be “detailed and historically accurate” – well, who knows?

Will the miniature sculpting be done by the infamous "Chinese subcontractor" who did the Mess-o-Spit?
Let’s not even go there…

Buying Strategy: Seems to me that buying this I'll do the same thing I've done with the Wizkids Pirates game: Buy about 12 packs of each set as an initial purchase, this being about the tipping point where you start to turn up duplicates. From there fill out the rest of the set with after-market purchases of singles.

If the packaging really is going to produce a glut of duplicate rares, then it stands to reason there will be an abundance of fairly cheap singles to buy on the internet. One might even choose to do all your purchases via after-market vendors, as this would allow you to build just the national fleets that you are really interested in.
For smaller ships, having duplicates wouldn’t be such a bad thing – carriers would likely be escorted by at least 7 or 8 DD’s for example.



Here's another thing I don't get: The preview marketing hype says:

Unique ships—such as the BB Bismarck, IJN Yamato, and the USS Enterprise—feature their distinctive markings and camouflage.

Now, how much camouflage, exactly, would you see on a WWII naval vessel? Aren't we going to see pretty much just shades of grey? And if there was one area where it would make sense/be justifiable to save production costs, wouldn't it be here, where nobody really expects an unusual paint job?

I'm aware of the British experimenting with some Zebra striping of destroyers and escorts in the North Atlantic, but I don't think this was found to be all that effective. I don't recall seeing any photos of this being done with capital ships.
Actually, all WWII navies at least experimented with ship camouflage, and some, such as the US, camouflaged all ships in one measure or another, some of which were very distinctive. You can read up on it and see photos here:

http://www.shipcamouflage.com/index.htm

As an example, here’s a photo of the USS North Carolina BB55 in Measure 32. At some point in the last couple of years, the North Carolina was painted in this measure – if you go there today, it may still be painted in this scheme.


The reason most people have the idea that US WWII ships were painted gray is because most movies filmed about WWII were shot after the war when the ships had almost all been repainted a base gray. If you see old footage, though, you’ll see that this wasn’t the case. For example, have you ever seen a shot of a US carrier flight deck on a History Channel documentary and noticed that the deck appeared to be a light blue-gray color? This is because the flight decks of US carriers were stained a dark blue beginning in 1942 – the reason they look lighter in the films is due to the weathering effect of the sun and sea spray.

It isn’t camouflage, but as another example of uniqueness the German navy painted the topside of the gun turrets of their capital ships a different color to aid in identification to German pilots; when the Bismarck was sunk the tops of all four main turrets were painted yellow. Capital ships in the Italian navy had alternating red and white stripes painted on the forecastle deck for the same reason. And so on…

If WotC does these miniatures right (I know, that’s a GIGANTIC if), they will probably pick up quite a few sales from people who just want to collect the ships. Here’s hoping they didn’t contract them to the same people who do the A&AM one.

[Joisey]

Thanks for the info Bob! Looks like there's a whole lot of history there I need to get educated on.

[J.L.Robert]

Having seen both the SWM Starship Battles and War at Sea, I can say they are quite different.

Now, as for War at Sea rarity, I believe someone actually guessed the ratio correctly:

24 rare, 16 uncommon, 24 common.

Thank you. Thank you very much. :D

It was a good hunch, basing my guess on the horrific experience that was my foray into MLB SportsClix.

So, in one case, you should get (assuming the same sorting experiences we've been getting from AAM and SWM):

1/2 of the Rares
3/4 of the Uncommons
1-1/2 sets of Commons

Wow...not a lot of collection for the money.

[Imperious leader]

Man i hope the scale in not larger than 1/2400... anything larger ( like what GHQ has done has made larger wargaming impossible. If its 2400 it will work for axis and allies board games... an additional plus. But im sure its all screwed up and the Akagi is hollow underneath like GHQ, and you get like 2 ships per box. God i hope its not that!

[Captain_Blackadder]

Thank you. Thank you very much. :D

It was a good hunch, basing my guess on the horrific experience that was my foray into MLB SportsClix.

So, in one case, you should get (assuming the same sorting experiences we've been getting from AAM and SWM):

1/2 of the Rares
3/4 of the Uncommons
1-1/2 sets of Commons

Wow...not a lot of collection for the money.

not a lot of collection for the money indeed...seems to me that this game is being marketed as a money gouge by WOTC :mad:


AHEM....more minis per package please :cool:

[Stojakovic]

not a lot of collection for the money indeed...seems to me that this game is being marketed as a money gouge by WOTC :mad:


AHEM....more minis per package please :cool:

Well it seems like there is more plastic in one mini (except planes) so I think the profit remains about the same, which is like 950% :D

[hornet69]

Having seen both the SWM Starship Battles and War at Sea, I can say they are quite different.

Now, as for War at Sea rarity, I believe someone actually guessed the ratio correctly:

24 rare, 16 uncommon, 24 common.
thanks again bob for the info .but how about a pic

[richyj1]

thanks again bob for the info .but how about a pic
Bob previously indicated that there wasn't anything to take a picture of at this point (we are a considerable amount of time from release, after all!).

I must say, I'm excited about the possibilities for this game - the scale and level of detail on the rare ships might well be quite good - of course, only time will tell. I've been very happy with the majority of the A&A Minis - of course those handful of exceptions do tend to 'spoil the bunch' (3" gun, Hellcat, etc.).

[hornet69]

[QUOTE=richyj1]Bob previously indicated that there wasn't anything to take a picture of at this point (we are a considerable amount of time from release, after all!).

this i know .but before aam was initial released ,actualy months before they showed in previews units that were gonna be in the intial set-with i might add very interesting backgrounds about them .it would be nice for them to do the same with the naval expansion to this game

[Joisey]

not a lot of collection for the money indeed...seems to me that this game is being marketed as a money gouge by WOTC :mad:


AHEM....more minis per package please :cool:
HA! Wait till you see what they'll charge for the star wars spaceships, given the hefty royalty fees Jabba the Lucas demands. :)

[Autarch]

Here's another thing I don't get: The preview marketing hype says:

Unique ships—such as the BB Bismarck, IJN Yamato, and the USS Enterprise—feature their distinctive markings and camouflage.

Now, how much camouflage, exactly, would you see on a WWII naval vessel? Aren't we going to see pretty much just shades of grey? And if there was one area where it would make sense/be justifiable to save production costs, wouldn't it be here, where nobody really expects an unusual paint job?

I'm aware of the British experimenting with some Zebra striping of destroyers and escorts in the North Atlantic, but I don't think this was found to be all that effective. I don't recall seeing any photos of this being done with capital ships.

Bobsalt mentions some of the camo/deck schemes. I've also seen color wartime footage of carriers and battleships with tan/wood colored decks, Japanese carriers with a bright red meatball on the fore deck and German ships with a swastika in a red/white circle on the fore deck as well (doubt we'll see that, though).


Seems like a high number of rares. Are planes all common? Could some rares be planes (maybe the PBY?)

The U.S. went through 3 different mainline carrier fighters through the war, plus two different dive bombers. Add in the PBY and that's SIX planes just for the U.S.!

Give the Japanese at least 3 or four of their own (fighter, dive bomber, torpedeo bomber, and spotter) plus two for the Brits (fighter and Swordfish), a few for the Italians and at least a sea plane for the Germans.

That would make planes about half of all commons, if they are commons.

Don't forget the US Devastator and Avenger torpedo bombers. I'm thinking that not all planes will be available in the first set. I'd hate to see large single planes as rares, let alone uncommons.

[Muenchausen]

Man i hope the scale in not larger than 1/2400... anything larger ( like what GHQ has done has made larger wargaming impossible. If its 2400 it will work for axis and allies board games... an additional plus. But im sure its all screwed up and the Akagi is hollow underneath like GHQ, and you get like 2 ships per box. God i hope its not that!
Bob verified that the scale will be 1/1800 for ships and 1/900 for planes.

[Sean-Khan]

Bob previously indicated that there wasn't anything to take a picture of at this point (we are a considerable amount of time from release, after all!).

I must say, I'm excited about the possibilities for this game - the scale and level of detail on the rare ships might well be quite good - of course, only time will tell. I've been very happy with the majority of the A&A Minis - of course those handful of exceptions do tend to 'spoil the bunch' (3" gun, Hellcat, etc.).
Actually there would be something to take pics of, but they aren't mass-produced pieces and might look more or less different to those we are getting.

They better have great details - at this cost per mini, it's the only thing that can sell the minis. No casual gamer will probably get into the game as it's expensive and getting few fleets will probably require several boosters. I really hope the game has some terrain elements that can be used in play and help with beginning (airbases, mines, coastal cannons etc.9

[Richter von Manthofen]

I am a bit concerned about this ditribution of UC and rare.

If you assume that they produce 2 boosters for each starter then 24 rare and 16 uncommon will yield a ration of 1 rare for two uncommon (and 4 common if I did the math correctly). That means that you will probably need many many cases to fill your (unnamed) cruiser, destroyer and plane needs.

If the game is somehow balanced you need at least a fighter and a bomber for eache mayor nation (including France + Italy) but if you assume that only US, UK Germany and Japan the full load thats alone 8 commons slots. Torpedo planes are essential too, so fill another 3 slots (not sure about germany), so at least half of the common slots could be blocked by planes. add a sub and a DD for each nation and we hold at 19 of 24 lots (not counting France, Italy and Australia). If subs and destroyers are uncommon this game sucks IMHO.

Have I mentioned PTs and transports??

16 uncommon do not leave much space for cruisers and light carriers .

the 24 rares, if named ships (and class ships for BB+CVs) seem ok to me. (2 cases and a few 2? starters are within the budget)

Looking at the numbers I fear that we will have gaping holes in many navies. My bet is on at least 32+ minis for ***+US and the rest gets underrepresented.

[Taisho_Alex]

I think RvM has it right on with the representation.

JP and US gets a lot here, and the rest will have to wait.

But, with the focus on the european theater in the AAM department, isn't it somehow fair with a pacific focus in WaS (and US was the second largest fleet at the start of WW2, wasn't it? or am I remembering something wrong here, I know JP was the largest - at least according to the books at the library)

[Richter von Manthofen]

AFAIK the Japanese Fleet at the Start of the war was larger than the US and UK fleets (in the Pacific) together. The ratio went worse for the allies after Pearl Harbor and Singapore defeats...

[Cruizin2000]

Speaking of camo, what about the Zuiho? It had a camo pattern on it's deck that made it look like a battleship with turrets and all. The Graf Spee had green/tan camo turrets.

The more and more I read about this game the more and more I don't want to get into it. I love the theme and all but the way the rariety is set up it's just going to be too expensive.

C2000

[Richter von Manthofen]

BOB you said 8 common for the starter, I believe it should be six...

[Muenchausen]

I am a bit concerned about this ditribution of UC and rare.

If you assume that they produce 2 boosters for each starter then 24 rare and 16 uncommon will yield a ration of 1 rare for two uncommon (and 4 common if I did the math correctly). That means that you will probably need many many cases to fill your (unnamed) cruiser, destroyer and plane needs.

the 24 rares, if named ships (and class ships for BB+CVs) seem ok to me. (2 cases and a few 2? starters are within the budget)

Looking at the numbers I fear that we will have gaping holes in many navies. My bet is on at least 32+ minis for ***+US and the rest gets underrepresented.

There are 24 rares and 16 uncommons and 24 commons. I'm only going to compare booster pack ratio's because most people will not buy 24 starters to complete their collection. A booster case is supposed to have 12 booster packs in it. A pack contains 1 rare, 1 uncommon and 3 common. Assume your far luckier than I and you buy two cases and get one of each rare. Also assume the distribution is one rare of any kind is in every other case. You would have 1 of each rare, you could end up with 1 of each uncommon with an additional 8 duplicates and you could have could have 3 of each common. Maybe two of some and four of another. In this situation two cases would give you a complete set along with some extra's.

Now lets assume your luck is the same as mine. Two cases might get you 14 -16 rares with duplicates of course. Probably the same count for uncommons and at least one of every common. So in this situation two cases of boosters would be a very good start. I would say that if you wanted the entire collection from the beginning you will have to buy 3-4 booster cases in addition to the starter pack.

I haven't made my decision to increase my order yet but I'm thinkng two starter packs and two booster cases will get me going. I'll either purchase more cases or buy off e-bay to fill out my navy once I actually see what the distrobution is.

[Richter von Manthofen]

Heck! What I wanted to say is that the uncommons will almost be as rare as the rare.

[Sean-Khan]

Just a thought; As boosters contain 1 rare and 1 uncommon, the amount of rares and uncommons produced will remain close to same. R:UC ratio is also smaller than in most other games. Because of this, there's not so much justification for "it's so large/complicated so it has to be made rare". I hope this has been taken into account with this game, so Rare is synonym for unique and Uncommon is synonym for non-unique.

So, I hope we can get mass-produced carriers & battleships as uncommons and putting all the unique ships, including cruisers, to Rare slots. There should be some sorting method, though; If surveillance planes are uncommons, pulling one in addition to a small unique cruiser would make people annoyed. On the other hand, anyone wanting lots of large ships can cherrypick them easily. If it could be ensured that with smaller rare there would be larger uncommon, this would work very well IMHO.

[Autarch]

Now lets assume your luck is the same as mine. Two cases might get you 14 -16 rares with duplicates of course.

Or worse, your luck could be like mine with A&AM: 2 cases with 12 rares and 12 dupes.

[Muenchausen]

Just a thought; As boosters contain 1 rare and 1 uncommon, the amount of rares and uncommons produced will remain close to same. R:UC ratio is also smaller than in most other games. Because of this, there's not so much justification for "it's so large/complicated so it has to be made rare". I hope this has been taken into account with this game, so Rare is synonym for unique and Uncommon is synonym for non-unique.

So, I hope we can get mass-produced carriers & battleships as uncommons and putting all the unique ships, including cruisers, to Rare slots. There should be some sorting method, though; If surveillance planes are uncommons, pulling one in addition to a small unique cruiser would make people annoyed. On the other hand, anyone wanting lots of large ships can cherrypick them easily. If it could be ensured that with smaller rare there would be larger uncommon, this would work very well IMHO.

By ratio it's going to be 1 rare for every 1 1/2 uncommon for every 3 common produced. I don't think we're going to see a lot of uncommon carriers or battleships for the reasons you cited in addition to a myried of other problems. IMO battleships and carriers will be rare. All cruiser classes will be uncommon and everything else will be common.

[Bobsalt]

I think RvM has it right on with the representation.

JP and US gets a lot here, and the rest will have to wait.

But, with the focus on the european theater in the AAM department, isn't it somehow fair with a pacific focus in WaS (and US was the second largest fleet at the start of WW2, wasn't it? or am I remembering something wrong here, I know JP was the largest - at least according to the books at the library)
The US fleet was much larger than Japan’s at the start of the war, and of course it went downhill for Japan from there. Of course, the US fleet was spread between the Pacific and Atlantic, so the Japanese had (temporary) superiority in the Pacific.

Speaking of camo, what about the Zuiho? It had a camo pattern on it's deck that made it look like a battleship with turrets and all. The Graf Spee had green/tan camo turrets.
When you look at the way some of the ships in WWII were painted, there’s a real opportunity here to produce some really sweet looking miniatures IF (and that is a GIGANTIC if my friends) WotC has gotten its act together.

The more and more I read about this game the more and more I don't want to get into it. I love the theme and all but the way the rariety is set up it's just going to be too expensive.
I have to agree. As promising as a lot of the things we know about the game sound, there are several reasons why I don’t plan to buy the game, in spite of my great interest in naval games.

1) I have to echo your thoughts here - the way rarity is set up makes the game just too expensive for me. If the booster cost is $15, which is the number I’ve heard tossed around, it’s going to potentially take a lot more investment in the game to get all the pieces as opposed to A&AM (which is itself already priced too high for the quality we’re getting now). Having 24 rares versus 15 in A&AM is a huge difference - I could easily see someone buying 3 or 4 cases and still not getting a complete set.

2) The scale they’re going to be using puts me off. The 1/1800 for ships and 1/900 for planes is an oddball scale – the wargaming standards for naval miniatures are 1/2400 and 1/3000. I’m blessed with a very large dining room table, and I also have a ping pong table in the basement. Even on these tables using 1/3000 scale, it gets a little crowded for a WWII naval battle. Now, possibly the game will not be purely tactical, in which case this won’t be such a big deal. I do have to admit that one nice thing about the 1/1800 scale is that when the game is set up it may have the look of a WWII naval plotting table, which would be very cool. For those who are into the 3-D game maps, this could look very good on a ping pong table.

My biggest concern about the scale though is the look of the miniatures themselves. At 1/1800 scale, you can see more detail than at 1/2400, and this scale allows you to really paint them up nicely. If WotC does these miniatures well, they could look really good. Looking at their track record, though, unless this game has a considerable upgrade in the quality of the miniatures from A&AM they would have been better off going with 1/2400 or 1/3000 scale. At those scales, it’s a lot easier to paint them a base color, maybe paint a detail or two, slap a black wash on them and they won’t look too bad (as a frame of reference, the carriers and battleships in the standard Axis & Allies games are about 1/3000).

I’ll be curious as to just how detailed the ships are – particularly the gun turrets. This is another concern I have. At 1/3000, you don’t notice so much that the turrets are molded as part of the mini itself and don’t have discernable gun barrels. You do notice this at 1/2400 and at 1/1800 if the turrets don’t have distinct separate gun barrels it’s going to look really bad. As I said, given the ongoing problems WotC has with poor quality with A&AM, going smaller where lack of detail wouldn’t have been as noticeable would have been better.

3) It kind of ties into the end of my previous comment, but I’m automatically skeptical about this game just because of the poor quality I’ve seen in A&AM. How do we know that even if the initial release of WAS looks good there won’t be a steady drop in quality from there like there’s been with A&AM? Problems with scale like those we’ve seen for so many units in A&AM could really sink (sorry!) this game. The concern about quality is enough by itself to keep me from buying, at least until I’ve seen a few sets.

4) What will the rules be like? Is this going to be a beer & pretzels wargame, or will it turn out to have a bunch of kiddie elements? I don’t even want to think about how they’d model heroes with ships.

5) Will the game be balanced, with each unit priced according to its abilities compared to other units, or will they deliberately skew the costs of some units in order to “enhance” our “fun?”

As much as I love naval games, I plan on passing on this one. There are just too many questions at this (admittedly early) stage, and my experience with A&AM has taught me to be very skeptical about WotC. I very well may get it after a couple of sets are out and they show me that it isn’t going to be a repeat of A&AM. But WotC has some things to prove to me before I buy another one of their games.

[Richter von Manthofen]

I am not so worried by the high number of rares - If they are unique I won't field multiples of Enterprises (A B C D ;)) as I do with T-26, Carros, Crusader,... I might end buying LESS from the game because I do NOT need multiples of the rare ones. (depends on the number of uniques)

I am definitly on board with this game. 2 cases and a starter (or two) I assume.

I might even buy some more starters as the ratio of uncommon is better ;) - OK now I am lying...

[Cruizin2000]

After doing some really long thinking, if you really are into naval fighting you're going to have to buy 5 cases to do anything close to Midway. We won't even talk about the battles around the Phillipines in '44/'45. $$$$$$$$$$$$

C2000

[Moderator Sinister]

After doing some really long thinking, if you really are into naval fighting you're going to have to buy 5 cases to do anything close to Midway. We won't even talk about the battles around the Phillipines in '44/'45. $$$$$$$$$$$$

C2000


Let's! The biggest naval engagment in history!!!! 15 cases! But it'll take a week to finish!

[Richter von Manthofen]

I believe some of us have done Kursk at that scale :D

[Richter von Manthofen]

I believe we should get a separate (sub) forum for WAS where all the Compwhiners are banned :)

No seriously. You have made your points that you WON'T buy that game. Its OK, but please reduce your negative posts, so we other can enjoy the game. it NOT even released and it got more (for the time period) negative response as has AAM in the last few months (Spitfire set aside).

I bet you do not complain that you do NOT buy SWM or DDM at their boards.

Sigh! I want to enjoy WAS.

[Moderator Sinister]

WAS will get its own forum closer to release time I'm sure.

[Richter von Manthofen]

Could you give exact info on release time... Whistle...

[Cruizin2000]

I believe we should get a separate (sub) forum for WAS where all the Compwhiners are banned :)

No seriously. You have made your points that you WON'T buy that game. Its OK, but please reduce your negative posts, so we other can enjoy the game. it NOT even released and it got more (for the time period) negative response as has AAM in the last few months (Spitfire set aside).

I bet you do not complain that you do NOT buy SWM or DDM at their boards.

Sigh! I want to enjoy WAS.

If you are referring to me, I do buy SWM and DDM. I also don't post on those forums. I do know that this upcoming game is going to be EXPENSIVE, atleast for me, because I don't do anything halfassed. This is one reason why I'm not going to buy any - plain and simple.

Others are free to post any positive or negative responses that they desire. Our responses, whether they are welcomed or not, help everyone with their decision to purchase this game. People complain because the LIKE the game and wish to see improvements made where they can to help all players.

If a game set up like this upcoming game excites you, go for it. You must have the money to spend on this unless you're into having the Chokai fight along side the Lutzow. No me.

So, behave and read and enjoy what people are posting. This info might help you out 4-5 months from now - and it's free.

C2000

[Cruizin2000]

Let's! The biggest naval engagment in history!!!! 15 cases! But it'll take a week to finish!


What's your address? I'll come out there and we'll play. 15 cases!? I'll buy the first and second rounds. :)

C2000

[Dugger]

Basicaly gentlemen i don't know what to do everybody has very good reasons not to get involved with this game and on the other hand the reasons to get involved in this game.
I love naval games always put naval games first on the list of games to play and having a mini of the Lexington would be great. But what to do as everybody has said where do you draw the line in what games to buy and which ones you have to discontinue buy for. :confused:

Well WOTC has been get my money for over 25 years this was when it was just TSR, for ive played and still do play D&D and still buy there stuff for it which is not cheap(not to mention the 3.0 and the 3.5 blunder ,what a waste of at least 500.00 bucks or more).
I've been playing and buying the AA&M since it started and im not that good at it but when i do get to play iplay the best i can ,but now they have another game....So what to do listening to all the comments from you and specalations that are being thrown around gets you more confussed then and thing.
So i think that WOTC should keep us WELL informed and answer the question about this new game as soon as they can, were the ones that their selling this new game too.

anyway lets but it this way do they want my 30dollars for D&D or AA&M or WAS when it comes out or don't they really care as long as they get my money.

Dugger

[Richter von Manthofen]

You is meant generally, but its true you (specifically meant ;)) sparked my post.

It seems there are more negative posts on the game than positive and all we know is 1 unit the cost and distribution - Neither rules nor an unit list - It sound a bit unfair to me

just give (all of you) the game a chance.

Cruz: If you also play the other mini games I can understand that you won't do another one - take it as a chance to save money as it replaces a regularAAM set.

[Cruizin2000]

You is meant generally, but its true you (specifically meant ;)) sparked my post.

It seems there are more negative posts on the game than positive and all we know is 1 unit the cost and distribution - Neither rules nor an unit list - It sound a bit unfair to me

just give (all of you) the game a chance.

Cruz: If you also play the other mini games I can understand that you won't do another one - take it as a chance to save money as it replaces a regularAAM set.


Saving money is right. I've bought 1 case of ROTS, RS, Universe, bought up singles from those sets to play the scenario books and to have all of the main players in the game, and the AT-AT. I've bought 2 starters of DDM and 2 boosters of each of the first four sets.

Trust me, I really want to get into this game but the distribution of the pieces and the need for several of each rare is just crazy insane.

Take the Battle of Midway as an example. I want to buy 2 starters and 2 cases. There was only ONE Hiryu, Soryu, Kaga, and Akagi. I'm sure that I'd end up with several of each - not good. On the other hand, you'll need 3 Yorktown class carriers, 4 Kongo class BC, 4 Mogami class cruisers, etc. That's where it get's expensive.

So, rather than just buying a few boosters and wishing I had more, I've decided to "look the other way" and not buy any. I'd have to sell stuff on E-bay, sell blood, sell plasma, body organs, etc to do this game right. I'm feeling anemic just thinking about it.

C2000

[Cruizin2000]

Hmmm, what can I sell?

C2000

[Joisey]

I'm a little taken aback at all the kvetching over the price, actually. Back in the Day, (set II, III) it was TYPICAL for posters to announce multi-case pre-orders and multi-case pulls. So it takes two cases to get all your rares rather than one. Big Deal. Adult Gamers who want to get into these games don't seem to me to have a problem with these size purchases.

Of course, WotC will have to be up to the task of making a mini worth $3.00 apiece. AAM minis run between $8.00-$15.00 on line for a rare. And people buy them all the time. I have no reason to believe that the AANM rares will cost any more.

I have also previously suggested a buyer's strategy to alleviate some of this. Especially if you're willing to restrict your play in the game to one or two nations (say, U.S. vs. JP in the Pacific).

One more final thought on price to put things in perspective (yeah, yeah, I know, this from the guy coming from a gaming group that did Kursk at the Divisional level with AAM): What's a pack of cigarettes up to these days? $15.00 per booster pack is like, what, the cost of 1.5 packs of cigs? If you were a "pack a week" AANM buyer, that's only $15.00 a week. Skip a lunch. There's your booster pack. In 3 months, you've got your case. Got duplicates? Sell 'em on E-bay. Trade with your friends. Seven year olds can manage it with their Yu-gi-oh cards, I'm sure you can too. If not, I have a sharp 7 year old I can loan you. :)

All that being said, I sure as heck hope that WotC have been paying attention over the last two years with AAM and realize that an even more expensive miniatures game is going to mean that your customer base will consist of Adult, serious wargamers, not kids buying a booster or two off the rack at Toys 'R' Us, and have game mechanics that cater to a more sophisticated crowd. I'd say WotC should be going for what I'll term as "Advanced Beer & Pretzels" play. And having a healthy body of "advanced rules" for players to layer onto a core set of rules wouldn't hurt, either. That allows you to get the kid's allowance money, and your grognards too. :)

Question to ponder: Given the relatively dimunitive size of the Kriegsmarine, wouldn't pretty much all of their surface capital ships, including the cruisers, be "unique" and therefore "rare"?

[ANTIBOMBER]

Outstanding!!!

I can not wait to get this game! If cost is putting you off, look at GHQ or Panzerschiffe naval mini's, that is sticker shock, and you have to paint your own ships!

I like the idea of aircraft arranged in "wings" of 3 planes, but am curious about how that effects Air casualties, Will it be an all or nothing affair? or will they take multiple hits and suffer from reduced combat effectiveness as they take damage?

Hey..Just make the mini's....If I do not like the rules, I will make my own!!!!

I hope there is a battleship Arizona! I can get her a little payback even if it is only a game!!!!!!!

[Moderator Sinister]

Outstanding!!!

I can not wait to get this game! If cost is putting you off, look at GHQ or Panzerschiffe naval mini's, that is sticker shock, and you have to paint your own ships!

I like the idea of aircraft arranged in "wings" of 3 planes, but am curious about how that effects Air casualties, Will it be an all or nothing affair? or will they take multiple hits and suffer from reduced combat effectiveness as they take damage?

Hey..Just make the mini's....If I do not like the rules, I will make my own!!!!

I hope there is a battleship Arizona! I can get her a little payback even if it is only a game!!!!!!!


There is but it's the attack on pearl version!!! In otherwords what's left of it when I hit it with my japanese forces!!!

[Cruizin2000]

Panzerschiffe? I have alot of their stuff. I met that owner, Dave I think was his name, at a Con here in Columbus. I bought a ton of that stuff and he gave me 1/2 off. They're easy to paint. Get the mold stuff off with kerosine and paint'em tan, then touch'em up with some gray paint - piece of cake. GHQ is expensive. CinC was pretty affordable. I have a ton of thier 1/4800 ships. If you sneeze, you'll lose a destroyer or two. Yikes!!

C2000

[Muenchausen]

I'm looking forward to this game. I don't plan on buying as much as I did with AAM but, who knows. When I get my first batch of minis I may go head over heals crazy and start buying like there's no tomorrow. I like the idead that the capitol ships will be up to 6" long. I know that means that they will have hollow hulls but I also expect them to be made out of sturdy plastic. No bending and distorting like set III of AAM.

I know some of you, buy your posts, have no intentions of getting into this game for what ever reasons you have stated and I don't have a problem with your decision. But if your on the fence post. Not sure if you want to get into this game ot not. I would ask that you keep an open mind and wait until AH has released more info like rules and pictures before making your decision.

[elbowsanchez]

Being a huge fan of Axis & Allies *.* the main thing that puzzles me about AAM AAWaS, why miss the opportunity to merge the board game scale with the scale of your new products. The brainchild of this series really missed the mark or was not versed with aae/aap series. Why not have made in the scale of the boardgame??? AAM tanks could have been molded in the same scale for much less and wider profit margin. Same thing with the infantry, which are somewhat same scale minus the big base that does quite fit on the chip for the boardgame. These could have been packaged in card deck like packaging sold not only for the AAM series, but for the boardgame series. Just try and order extra parts for your revised game. I would have been more truely interested in AAM Was had they did this merge. Well maybe next time. I imagine that you will get some of my money with WaS, but not as much as you could have.

ES

[Moderator Sinister]

Being a huge fan of Axis & Allies *.* the main thing that puzzles me about AAM AAWaS, why miss the opportunity to merge the board game scale with the scale of your new products. The brainchild of this series really missed the mark or was not versed with aae/aap series. Why not have made in the scale of the boardgame??? AAM tanks could have been molded in the same scale for much less and wider profit margin. Same thing with the infantry, which are somewhat same scale minus the big base that does quite fit on the chip for the boardgame. These could have been packaged in card deck like packaging sold not only for the AAM series, but for the boardgame series. Just try and order extra parts for your revised game. I would have been more truely interested in AAM Was had they did this merge. Well maybe next time. I imagine that you will get some of my money with WaS, but not as much as you could have.

ES


Considering the use of "chips" I'm not sure about that. I personally wouldn't invest in miniatures just for the boardgame. There's already too limited a space for the miniatures and by not using chips it would be impossible to fit everything in there.

Now... if they wanted to double the size of the A&A board...well then...

[TheCygnysGuardian]

I like the idea that the capitol ships will be up to 6" long. I know that means that they will have hollow hulls but I also expect them to be made out of sturdy plastic. No bending and distorting like set III of AAM.

I hear ya. I'm still trying to get the Marder II's turret (among others) to stay straight.

[Imperious leader]

I can not wait to get this game! If cost is putting you off, look at GHQ or Panzerschiffe naval mini's, that is sticker shock, and you have to paint your own ships!

Both of those are a total waste of money. Buy Skytrex 1/2400 its much more fair of a price point and the metal mold are correct for axis and allies, while the ships are not hollow or plastic. Panzersciffe only has a few ww2 molds and the price is crap. GHQ is an even worse prospect because the metals bend too much and the scale is terrible... way too big.. They make them too big so they have an excuse to charge more... they dont care if you need a huge map or table to play them kinda like this "war at sea" thing.

Skytrex is like a buck a ship or 2 bucks for a larger ship. Look under Davco 1/2400

[RBloom0566]

You is meant generally, but its true you (specifically meant ;)) sparked my post.

It seems there are more negative posts on the game than positive and all we know is 1 unit the cost and distribution - Neither rules nor an unit list - It sound a bit unfair to me

just give (all of you) the game a chance.

Cruz: If you also play the other mini games I can understand that you won't do another one - take it as a chance to save money as it replaces a regularAAM set.

Never fear RvM! I'm going to be buying into it and I think several others are as well. We're just not vocal because we have made our decision and have nothing to beech about because ... well ... we're sold.

I'm good with the distribution #'s per Starter & Booster. I'm good with the total # of minis/set. I'm ok with the cost. Sure cheaper would be better, but how much have I already sunk into A&AM--a land game--when I like naval games more? Inconsequential. Rich? Hell no. Know what I like? Yes! I like what I see. I am curious how they will work some things, but I can wait and have those questions answered well before the stuff hits the shelves.

So many are quick to condemn. And it's not just that they are providing input to "inform others;" more to the point, they enjoy drama and spoiling. If they don't have drama, they create it. If they don't want something, they try to spoil it so no one else wants it, either. Not happening here. Go preach elsewhere. I'm buying!

[Richter von Manthofen]

I fully understand cruizing 2000 (gor it right??)

If you do it - then do it right.

I do not believe the price it too high.. Compare it to AAM - you pay 15$ (sugg retail - correct?) for a rare - the same in WAS. AND the WAS rare is way bigger. I expect to get 18 different rares out of 2 cases and be able to trade in the rest with ease as there will probably be no high demand units like Vet Tiger, but most will only want 1 of each rare (if named)

1 uncommon vs 3 uncommon - that one is hard, but its often the uncommons you have too much (commanders, crappy tanks,...) SO that is not nice, but does not really hurt. (OK Elite Panzers Shermans etc you can't have enough)

3 common to 5 commons not a bad ratio, but how many units you will probably field. A case will yield 36 commons exactly 1,5 of each...

Wait that is really not much... Two cases equal 3 of each commons (I assume it will be 2 of each + from a few 3 and 4)

So the price is right for rare, average for uncommon but bad for common - Interesting fact!

It seems AH aims at collectors and not at players - Price of (all)commons will be around that of a SSPG or Mosin I fear...

[GijoeNumberOne]

I hear ya. I'm still trying to get the Marder II's turret (among others) to stay straight.
Try this: I used the hot and cold water trick in an attempt to straighten those buggers (and a couple others) but they still snake around. In frustration, I took one Marter, heated its already too soft barrel in hot water, then, using tweezers, tied the barrel into a knot. It sits on my computer, the ultimate reminded not to buy any more of the cheap crap from set III and IV.

[Cruizin2000]

Never fear RvM! I'm going to be buying into it and I think several others are as well. We're just not vocal because we have made our decision and have nothing to beech about because ... well ... we're sold.

I'm good with the distribution #'s per Starter & Booster. I'm good with the total # of minis/set. I'm ok with the cost. Sure cheaper would be better, but how much have I already sunk into A&AM--a land game--when I like naval games more? Inconsequential. Rich? Hell no. Know what I like? Yes! I like what I see. I am curious how they will work some things, but I can wait and have those questions answered well before the stuff hits the shelves.

So many are quick to condemn. And it's not just that they are providing input to "inform others;" more to the point, they enjoy drama and spoiling. If they don't have drama, they create it. If they don't want something, they try to spoil it so no one else wants it, either. Not happening here. Go preach elsewhere. I'm buying!


What sold you on it? The rules? Stat cards? The way the minis look? The price? The company that makes it?

I was just pointing out some facts about the game before it hits the shelves, that's all.

C2000

[Joisey]

I'm keenly interested, but I'm still on the fence until I get more info. Seeing a preview of minis is a must, as well as the rules.

[Sean-Khan]

I fully understand cruizing 2000 (gor it right??)
It seems AH aims at collectors and not at players - Price of (all)commons will be around that of a SSPG or Mosin I fear...

It's not a wonder - there's only 3 commons and total of 5 minis for $15. Rares will probably go for $6-$25 as singles, uncommons $2-6 and commons $0.5-$3.
If all uncommons are cruiser -size ships, uncommon minimum costs will probably be higher. I'm assuming that each category has one or more pieces that no-one will want more than 1 or maximum of 2, if they are wanted at all.

If I get into this, I'll collect only US, Japanese, British & German units. How does everyone else think? These major countries or some other group of countries, single country or all the spectrum?

Some capital ships may get really expensive, like planes in AAM; I believe almost everyone will want Yamato, Bismark & Enterprise for example. If these are exceptionally good in the game, their value might get to $30. If there's crappy -looking unknown unique ship, it will be hard to trade. In AAM, there's always someone who wants to have several pieces of the same crappy tank for some reason. With unique ship, that's unlikely.

[ANTIBOMBER]

Hey Sinister.....Not Funny, Not Funny, Not Funny!!!!

Give me the Bombed out Pearl Harbor Arizona! I will raise her and rebuild her.....like the Yamato in "Star Blazers"....Then send her straight to Toykyo Bay!!!!

[Richter von Manthofen]

I do not think that rare prices will get that high - especially if the ships are unique. Why is the T34 so expensive - because all want multiples of it - but How many Yamatos could you possible field ;).
The hot sellers will be the class ships as you will field multiples of each.

Which countries:

Japan sure
US definitly
UK Gimme Gimme
Germany - not so sure - a Bismarck and a Prinz Eugen + a few subs...
France - only if I "collect" the Set
Italy - if I can reasonable fight the British in the MED
Australia - Sure

I think it will be a Pacific centered game, and if I can connect it with AAM it will be perfect.

The only thing that can prevent me from getting in is a crappy pappy preview selection...

I believe it will be more a game for display and not for actualk action...

[Cruizin2000]

I've heard someone mention that this will be like Dreamblade with ships and that the pieces really don't matter as much as they would in SWM, A&AM, and D&DM. Who knows...

C2000

[Richter von Manthofen]

I've heard someone mention that this will be like Dreamblade with ships and that the pieces really don't matter as much as they would in SWM, A&AM, and D&DM. Who knows...

C2000

I hope that is a joke!

BOOOOOOB ! Please give us the rulebook - or at least the Quick start guide...

[Kaufschtick]

The rules will decide for me whether or not to buy on this one. If they make the game like A.H.'s old Naval War or like the Modern Naval Battles game, I'm going to have to pass. Fun games yes, but at this price level I don't want to invest if the rules are going to be that abstract.

[Autarch]

I agree with Kaufschtick. Having bathtub toy sized minis is one thing, but I hope combat is tactical like A&AM and not abstract like Flat Top. If so, the minis are going to have to be really good for me to want to buy and use with the tactical rules I devised for A&A/War! boardgame pieces long ago. Wonder where I put those...

[Sean-Khan]

I do not think that rare prices will get that high - especially if the ships are unique. Why is the T34 so expensive - because all want multiples of it - but How many Yamatos could you possible field ;).
The hot sellers will be the class ships as you will field multiples of each.

I hope so. But looking at DDM & SWM singles prices - Rare Unique Darth Maul's average price is $18.5, previous set's Rare Vader is $22. Not to speak of value of some Very Rares... In DDM, Elminster (few sets ago) is about $19. Drizzt, that was released in 3rd set is 120.00 - much more than any dragon or other non-unique mini. Most iconic pieces are very valued here and booster price is lower.

I don't know if Yamato & co has that much iconic value - if not, I'll be very happy :) Btw, I guess Bismark is more famous of the German battleships, but I prefer Tirpitz myself, but we might not get them both in this set.

I don't think this will be 'ww2 naval dreamblade'. I don't think it's avalonhill style (or is it? I don't know all the production lines :eek: ) "new miniatures game will let players recreate historical battles" doesn't support that much.

[Joisey]

I do not think that rare prices will get that high - especially if the ships are unique. Why is the T34 so expensive - because all want multiples of it - but How many Yamatos could you possible field ;).
The hot sellers will be the class ships as you will field multiples of each.

Which countries:

Japan sure
US definitly
UK Gimme Gimme
Germany - not so sure - a Bismarck and a Prinz Eugen + a few subs...
France - only if I "collect" the Set
Italy - if I can reasonable fight the British in the MED
Australia - Sure

I think it will be a Pacific centered game, and if I can connect it with AAM it will be perfect.

The only thing that can prevent me from getting in is a crappy pappy preview selection...

I believe it will be more a game for display and not for actualk action...
I agree: This will be a very Pacific-centric game. U.S. and Japan minis will be most in demand.

The thing with the Italians is that their battles with the British fleet are largely hypothetical. Ditto for Germans except for submarines vs. convoys and a very few battles where British squadrons ran down some German pocket battleships.

That's why I envision relying on resellers for a big majority of purchases, I'm not going to want to rack up alot of duplicates or ships of navies I'm not interested in.

Will each nationality get a frieghter? Would a generic suffice? You'd actually need large multiples of these to recreate battles of the North Atlantic convoys. Will the frieghter be common or uncommon?

Will the rules require you to account for logistics, like a U.S. fleet crossing the Pacific would have to have an oiler with it?

Between planes, destroyers, and freighters, we've already maxed out the commons! :)

[XAos]

I'd guess that rare-singles will sell at about the price of Huge figures in ddm. Including the high postage costs for huge figures.
The Uncommons (How is it "uncommon" with only 1 per booster) will sell as rares for ddm.
And the "commons" will sell as for ddm uncommons.

[Joisey]

I'd guess that rare-singles will sell at about the price of Huge figures in ddm. Including the high postage costs for huge figures.
The Uncommons (How is it "uncommon" with only 1 per booster) will sell as rares for ddm.
And the "commons" will sell as for ddm uncommons.
Good point: You get the same number of uncommons as rares per booster pack, and there's fewer uncommons in the set than rares.

Uncommons are the true rares.

[shadowhooch]

Good point: You get the same number of uncommons as rares per booster pack, and there's fewer uncommons in the set than rares.

Uncommons are the true rares.

Actually, just the opposite. If there are fewer Uncommons in the set, you will get more repeats of Uncommons than Rares. In theory, if you bought 24 boosters; you'd have 8 repeated "Uncommons" and no repeats of Rares. So Uncommons will still be Uncommon in your collection.

[Joisey]

Darn that Fuzzy Math! :P

[J.L.Robert]

I do not think that rare prices will get that high - especially if the ships are unique. Why is the T34 so expensive - because all want multiples of it - but How many Yamatos could you possible field ;).


For some ships, it'll be great. Get your one HMS Hood, or the Akagi, and you're finished.

But should you want the Yamato and the Musashi, that'll be about 4 cases worth of rares in circulation for ONE player to have both Japanese super BB's.

Want all 4 Missouri-Class BB's? Egads!

(And heaven forbid that they come out with "variants" of the other ships of that series in a later expansion!)

The AAM rare prices are driven by people wanting multiples of figures. The WAS rare prices will be driven by how much will have to be made available (how many boosters need to be opened) just to fill demand of specific rares. High-demand ones will fetch $30-50 a throw, while the "bad" rares will go for the same $3-5 most other rare CMG figures sell for.

Just hope the US CVE's are Uncommon...

[Sean-Khan]

But should you want the Yamato and the Musashi, that'll be about 4 cases worth of rares in circulation for ONE player to have both Japanese super BB's.

Want all 4 Missouri-Class BB's? Egads!

I don't know about Iowa -class, maybe they'll be unique ships (or at least 2 will be), but I believe that Yamato and Musashi are of high enough iconic value for making them separate ships. Hm, did they have different paintjobs or other details? I'm not aware of that. One of them might be delayed to a later set.

Hopefully Iowa -class will be uncommon! Like I mentioned before, it's not totally impossible idea (just unlikely) as there's as many uncommons in a booster than rares.

[357FTG]

so there will be 4 rarities, c, un, r and unique? What will be the distribution of uniques
in a case?

[Richter von Manthofen]

No unique will only mean that there can only be one ship (of this name) can be in play.

Only one IOWA, but many Fletcher Class Destroyers...

As we got the Enterprise CV6 - its clear that it will be the exact ship and not symbolize a whole class - ant this is good for gamers (ewithin a given distribution) because unlike AAM you will want only one (maybe two if you wont one for display) of this particular unit and not many (like the T34).

[DSV1]

Yamato / Musashi were fairly simliar in construction

As for germany

Bismark, Tirpitz BB
Scharnhorst, Gniesenau BC
Graf Spee, Scheer, Lutzow - Pocket Battleships
Prinz Eugen, Blucher, Hipper - Heavy Cruisers

And UK get the Hood :)

[Joisey]

For some ships, it'll be great. Get your one HMS Hood, or the Akagi, and you're finished.

But should you want the Yamato and the Musashi, that'll be about 4 cases worth of rares in circulation for ONE player to have both Japanese super BB's.

Want all 4 Missouri-Class BB's? Egads!

(And heaven forbid that they come out with "variants" of the other ships of that series in a later expansion!)

The AAM rare prices are driven by people wanting multiples of figures. The WAS rare prices will be driven by how much will have to be made available (how many boosters need to be opened) just to fill demand of specific rares. High-demand ones will fetch $30-50 a throw, while the "bad" rares will go for the same $3-5 most other rare CMG figures sell for.

Just hope the US CVE's are Uncommon...
I'm not expecting Set I to have all 4 Iowa class BB's. There's just not that many slots to go around and If you get the Iowa and the Missouri you can probably wait till Set II to get the New Jersey.

Likewise, If I get the Bismarck in Set I, I can wait for the Tirpitz in another set, seeing as how it's entire contribution to the war was as a very expensive aerial bombardment target tucked away in a Norwegian fjord.

[Muenchausen]

Decided to resurrect this thread since these questions are being asked again.

[carson]

[QUOTE=Photoner Hawkwind]I remember reading someplace that they aren't sure yet if they will make a second set. So hopefully it won't be run into the ground like Pirates.

*** I doubt there's much chance of seeing WaS beach itself Pirates style. Even if they went completely mad and produced every single ship that fought in WWII, there's a definite, known, finite #.....

[Muenchausen]

[QUOTE=Photoner Hawkwind]I remember reading someplace that they aren't sure yet if they will make a second set. So hopefully it won't be run into the ground like Pirates.

*** I doubt there's much chance of seeing WaS beach itself Pirates style. Even if they went completely mad and produced every single ship that fought in WWII, there's a definite, known, finite #.....

During one of the discussions WOTC held about a month ago, someone had asked something about WAS. The reply was they have two sets of WAS planned and any further sets after that will be determined by the popularity of the first two sets.

[Bobsalt]

During one of the discussions WOTC held about a month ago, someone had asked something about WAS. The reply was they have two sets of WAS planned and any further sets after that will be determined by the popularity of the first two sets.
If WaS ends after those two sets I guess I’ll be one of the people to blame. A year ago about this time I would have been very enthusiastic about this game. After seeing what WotC did with A&AM between all the kiddie stuff and the very uneven quality of the miniatures there’s no way I’m going to buy WaS until I’ve seen at least two sets, preferably three. I’m impressed by what Richard has said so far – it sounds like he knows what he’s doing. But it’s still the same company, which causes me to worry that the game will still have the same quality issues with the minis and that WotC’s marketing philosophy of deliberately skewing the costs and abilities of certain units to “enhance” our “fun” will creep in. I simply do not trust WotC – “fool me once…”, as they say.

I hope the game is well done, historical, and sells very well. In spite of my overall negative tone here I really do want it to be a success – a big success. But WotC has to prove itself to me before I will spend any money on another one of their games. If that kind of attitude causes the game to sink – well, that’s the way it goes. Personally I’d rather it be a decent game, die after 2 sets due to lack of sales, and me not spend any money on it than for it to be a repeat of the A&AM experience with all of the attendant issues and me having sunk as much money in it as I have with A&AM.

[Stojakovic]

If a product fails there is only one person to blame, it depends on the point of view. The company would blame you, and the fanatics of the product would blame you as well. The people who did no bother with it would blame the company for not making something that "the people" wanted, or just did not reach there expectations.

[whitewind]

[QUOTE=carson]

During one of the discussions WOTC held about a month ago, someone had asked something about WAS. The reply was they have two sets of WAS planned and any further sets after that will be determined by the popularity of the first two sets.Oh well, so much for me waiting for 4 sets to come out before buying into it. If it succeeds then great. Has anyone herd if it is going to be another tourney oriented game? I am guessing that it will be but just don't know for sure.

[DSV1]

surely all the Capital ships will be unique ?

There is little sense in making them generic from a sales point of view, the generic ships will be the frigates / destroyers / subs etc.

Please let them be unique game wise , I really dont want to see 5 BISMARKS on the table even if Germany is outgunned by the British a 200 point force say can include a couple of BBs a BC etc for a decent game.

What does concern me is how powerful the Carriers will be unless Nations like Germany may get land cover perhaps.

I get the feeling this isnt going to be a multiple expansion game as there just isnt the ships to do it , lets say there are 18 Battleships/Battlecruisers in the first set thats a hefty chunk of the nations Capital ships during ww2

UK BBs - 5 QE, 5 Revenge, 5 KG5, 2 Nelson,
BCs - 1 Hood, 2 Repulse, 1 Tiger

US BBs - 4 Iowa, 2 North Carolina, 4 South Dakota, 4 Texas ( i think )
BCs 2 Alaska

Japan BBs 2 yamato, 4 Kongo plus a couple of others

Germany BBs 2 Bismark
BCs 2 Scharnhorst, 3 Graf spee

French BBs 4

Italy bbs 3

Probably only about 60 BBs in total so maybe 3 expansions . Anymore than that and we are into the what if this was built realm of the Montana class etc which I hope WOTC do not do.

[shousa]

surely all the Capital ships will be unique ?

There is little sense in making them generic from a sales point of view, the generic ships will be the frigates / destroyers / subs etc.

Please let them be unique game wise , I really dont want to see 5 BISMARKS on the table even if Germany is outgunned by the British a 200 point force say can include a couple of BBs a BC etc for a decent game.

What does concern me is how powerful the Carriers will be unless Nations like Germany may get land cover perhaps.

I get the feeling this isnt going to be a multiple expansion game as there just isnt the ships to do it , lets say there are 18 Battleships/Battlecruisers in the first set thats a hefty chunk of the nations Capital ships during ww2

UK BBs - 5 QE, 5 Revenge, 5 KG5, 2 Nelson,
BCs - 1 Hood, 2 Repulse, 1 Tiger

US BBs - 4 Iowa, 2 North Carolina, 4 South Dakota, 4 Texas ( i think )
BCs 2 Alaska

Japan BBs 2 yamato, 4 Kongo plus a couple of others

Germany BBs 2 Bismark
BCs 2 Scharnhorst, 3 Graf spee

French BBs 4

Italy bbs 3

Probably only about 60 BBs in total so maybe 3 expansions . Anymore than that and we are into the what if this was built realm of the Montana class etc which I hope WOTC do not do.


See, the problem with that argument is that there can't be 18 battleships in the first set, because battleships have to share the 24 rare spots with carriers and heavy cruisers, so more likely we'll see around 12 battleships at most. Granted, that only extends things to 5 expansions, but it's still a big difference.

[Shaposhnikov]

Well, once more WotC is going to totally dis the installed base of historical gamers. I own a large reference library on Naval Warfare, and plenty of miniatures in the existing scales.,1/1200 and 1/2400. Now (Quick trip down the hall to the Library), the USS Enterprize was 809' OA (Length), the Ioaw 887' (OA); in 1/1200, 1"=100', so, the miniatyures are not in the INTERNATIONALLY recognized 1/1200 scale. (OK, the Germans manufacture theirs in 1/1250, but close enough).

Can't you guys LEARN ANYTHING.


Of course, the local kids will twist the game for their own purpose, who has a Bismark (Or Enterprize?) will almost always determine the winner.

But WHY should I invest my time, dollars and energy in an activity (Organizing tournaments, games, teaching the rules ets) that doesn't support aspects of the hobby I already have a significant investment in? Especially if your historical knowledge is as farcial and superficial as some of your A&A Minis decisions would indicate.

[Muenchausen]

Just thought I'd resurrect this thead in preperation of WAS getting it's own forum on Monday. Theres alot of useful information on WAS. Some of these questions keep getting asked so maybe this will provide some clarity.

[Thunderjp]

I found a price to pre-order a case of boosters for $114.95. If anybody has a better price, could you PM it to me?

[MarcusAurelius]

Bump for transfer to new Axis & Allies Naval Miniatures forum.

[horacus]

Bump for transfer to new Axis & Allies Naval Miniatures forum.

It's a good idea.

[world war III]

good price...

[world war III]

good price.......

[world war III]

good price......

[world war III]

good price..........

[world war III]

good price...........

[world war III]

good price..

[world war III]

good price............:D :D :D :D

[Joisey]

<sigh> Spam much? :rolleyes:

[world war III]

<sigh> Spam much? :rolleyes:

no way thats not spam i did not do that Scuba Steve did :D :D

[Muenchausen]

12 Boosters per carton

6 starters per carton

Don't know about total set collation yet.

Bob, I was checking the prices of a couple of on line vendors and they are listing 12 starters per case. Would you verify that it is 6 or 12? Thanks.

[Zhukov]

Will you get 99% of the enitre set (at least 1 of each) with a case?

[XAos]

Will you get 99% of the enitre set (at least 1 of each) with a case?
One case will not give you a complete set. A case contains;
12 rares. With 24 in the set. I'd expect 11 different rares & about 1 duplicate.
12 Uncommons. With only 16 in set I'd expect 10 different & a couple of duplicates in a case.
36 commons. (24 in set) I would expect that to be about 21 different commons & 15 duplicates.
The odds of getting a complete set with 2 cases would be absurdly low, easier to win the national lottery.:rolleyes:
The last half dozen rares in a set you should trade for. Trying to get them just by opening cases would require about 8 cases for the first set. (with a lot of duplicates)

[TheJudge]

24 rares means you need 8 cases to get a complete set? Is there canabis in your coffeee?

2 cases should net about 21 or 22 different rares and easily all of the uncommons and commons unless you get 2 identical cases which would be horrible luck. Ideally, you buy 2 cases at the same time from the same place and they should be unique cases and will have 2-3 dupes at most.

I would plan on buying 2 cases + a starter and thats about it, I can buy the needed singles for a set or trade my extras but I can also see the extras being the heavy cruisers of Baltimore class which you'll want dupes of anyhow. I hate that cruisers are rare, I really do.

[XAos]

24 rares means you need 8 cases to get a complete set? Is there canabis in your coffeee?
I'm assuming that's just by opening boosters. With no one to trade with of buy singles from. Or possably if your a singles trader & intend to pre-auction a complete set on e-bay.
So no, not cannabis, just (accurate) probability maths. The first rare you open is 24/24 of being one you don't have. But with each progressive rare you get the odds of the next one being a duplicate increase. When you have 12 of the 24, for each new rare you averagly have to open 2 more boosters. When you have 22 of the 24 the next rare requires 12 more boosters (thats for just one non-duplicate) And the final 24th rare needs an average of 24 boosters. It could easily take 48 or more boosters to draw that last rare, or you get lucky & draw it in one booster. But averagly you need to open 2 cases just to get the last rare.
At which point you have 4 of most of the rares and 7 or more of some. If your a singles trader you might with good luck have 8 of the most wanted rare to sell as singles or you might randomly have none of the most valuable rare.

[Ballshot]

Starter Set: $24.99, 1 Rare, 2 Uncommon, 8 Common

Booster: $14.99, 1 Rare, 1 Uncommon, 3 Common

For scale, the Iowa is just a shade under 6" long. The Enterprise is about 5 3/8" long and a U-Boat is about 1 1/2". Yes you can see the U-Boat.

I might have missed another post that addressed this but the WoTC site says 9 units in the Starter Set; 1 Rare, 2 Uncommon, 6 Common.

So which is it? 11 units or 9 units.

[Muenchausen]

It's nine.

[Ballshot]

It's nine.

Thanks! I find both of the quotes in your signature very appropriate for this addiction.

[Muenchausen]

Thanks, I need to modify the second one to include "ships".