[AANM: War At Sea] List of Previewed Units Stats

[Modern Major-General]

Axis & Allies Naval Miniatures
War At Sea In Stores March 16

AUSTRALIA

#1 HMAS Canberra Rare
1941 Ship - Cruiser
Cost 15, Speed 2
Attacks: Main 9/9/8/7, Antiair 5, Torpedo 2/2/1
Armor 3, Vital Armor 9, Hull Points 3

#2 HMAS Sydney Uncommon
1939 Ship - Crusier
Cost 14, Speed 2
Attacks: Main 7/7/6/5, Antiair 6, Torpedo 2/2/1
Armor 4, Vital Armor 9, Hull Points 3
Raider Hunter - This unit rolls one extra attack die when making Gunnery attacks against Cruisers and Auxiliary units.

FRANCE

#3 Gloire Uncommon

#4 Le Terrible Common

#5 Richelieu Rare
1940 Ship - Battleship
Cost 54, Speed 2
Attacks: Main 15/15/14/12, Secondary 6/6/5/5, Tertiary 4/4/3, Antiair 7
Armor 9, Vital Armor 15, Hull Points 5
Extended Range 5 - While undamaged, this unit can make range-4 or range-5 Main Gunnery attacks using its range-3 attack value.
Excellent Spotting - During your Surface Attack step, if another friendly Ship makes a Gunnery attack against an enemy Ship, this unit rolls one extra attack die when making Gunnery attacks against that enemy Ship this turn.
Torpedo Defense 1 - Each torpedo hit rolled against this unit deals 1 less point of hull damage.

UK

#6 HMS Ajax Uncommon
1939 Ship - Cruiser
Cost 13, Speed 2
Attacks: Main 7/7/6/5, Antiair 6, Torpedo 2/2/1
Armor 4, Vital Armor 9, Hull Points 3
Pursuit Ship - Instead of moving this unit during your Sea movement step, if you are the first player for this turn, you may choose a local enemy Ship. If that ship is within range 2 at the end of your opponent's Sea Movement step, put this unit in that Ship's sector.

#7 HMS Ark Royal Rare

#8 HMS Exeter Rare

#9 HMS Hood Rare

#10 HMS Javelin Common

#11 HMS Rodney Rare

#12 HMS Truculent Common
1943 Submarine
Cost 12, Speed 1
Attacks: Torpedo 4/3/2
Armor 3, Vital Armor 6, Hull Points 2
Submerged Shot
Run Silent- If this unit doesn't move during your Sea Movement step, ASW attacks against it get -1 on each attack die this turn.

#13 Sea Hurricane Mk 1B Common

#14 Swordfish Mk. II Common
1939 Aircraft - Torpedo Bomber
Cost 10, Speed - A
Attacks: Main(Antisub?) 3, Torpedo 3
Armor 3, Vital Armor 6, Hull Points 1
Lucky Hit - Whenever this unit hits an enemy Battleship with a Torpedo attack, roll a die. On a 5 or higher, that Battleship can't move next turn.

USA

#15 F4F Wildcat Common
F4F wildcat
1941 Aircraft - Fighter
Cost 7, Speed A
Attacks: Main 3, Antiair 7
Armor 6, Vital Armor 9, Hull Points 1
Combat Air Patrol
Escort
Defend the Flattop - While this unit is in the same sector as a firendly Carrier, it rolls one extra attack die when making Antiair attacks.

#16 PBY Catalina Uncommon

#17 PT Boat Common

#18 SBD Dauntless Common
1941 Aircraft - Dive Bomber
Cost 13, Speed A
Attacks: Bomb 10
Armor 5, Vital Armor 8, Hull Points 1
Press the Attack - Whenever this unit is aborted by a Ship's Antiair attack, you may roll a die. On a 1, destroy this unit. On a 4 or higher, this unit makes a Bomb attack during your Air attack phase, hitting on a 5 or higher only.

#19 SS Jeremiah O'Brien Uncommon

#20 TBD Devastator Common

#21 USS Atlanta (CL 51) Uncommon
1942 Ship - Crusier
Cost 12, Speed 2
Attacks: Main 6/6/5, Antiair 8, Torpedo 1/1
Armor 4, Vital Armor 9, Hull Points 3
Antiair Specialist - This unit can make two Antiair attacks against separate targets during your Air Defense step.

#22 USS Baltimore Rare

#23 USS Barb (SS 220) Common
Cost 12, Speed 1
Attacks: Torpedo 3/3/1
Armor 3, Vital Armor 6, Hull Points 2
Submerged Shot - This unit can make Torpedo atacks against local enemy Submarines.
Audacious Attack - Once per game, this unit can make two Torpedo attacks during your Torpedo Attack phase. The targets must be in different sectors.

#24 USS Boise (CL 47) Uncommon
1941 Ship - Cruiser
Cost 13, Speed 2
Attacks: Main 9/8/8/7, Secondary 4/4/3, Antiair 6
Armor 4, Vital Armor 10, Hull Points 3
Rapid Fire - Once per game, before you roll this unit's Main Gunnery attack against an enemy Ship, you can declare you are using Rapid Fire. If you do, roll two extra attack dice against that Ship.

#25 USS Enterprise (CV 6) Rare
1941 Ship - Carrier
Cost 25, Speed 2, Flagship Bonus 2, Basing Capacity 3
Attacks: Main 5/5/4, Antiair 8
Armor 4, Vital Armor 10, Hull Points 4
Expert Dogfighter - Once per turn, you may choose a friendly Fighter. That Fighter rolls one extra attack die when making Antiair attacks this turn.
Expert Bomber 2 - Once per turn, you may choose a friendly Dive Bomber. That Dive Bomber rolls two extra attack dice when making Bomb attacks this turn.
Survivor - If this unit receives hits equal to or greater than its vital armor, roll a die. On a 5 or higher, this unit takes 1 point of hull damage instead of being destroyed.

#26 USS Fletcher (DD 445) Common
1942 Ship - Destroyer
Cost 7, Speed 2
Attacks: Main 4/4/3, Antiair 6, ASW 5, Torpedo 2/2
Armor 3, Vital Armor 7, Hull Points 2
Chase the Salvoes - Whenever an enemy Battleship makes a Main Gunnery attack against this unit, roll a die. On a 5 or higher, this unit takes no damage from that attack.

#27 USS Iowa (BB 61) Rare
1943 Ship - Battleship
Cost 68, Speed 2, Flagship Bonus 2
Attacks: Main 18/18/17/15, Secondary 6/6/5, Antiair 9
Armor 9, Vital Armor 15, Hull Points 6
Bristling With Guns - This unit can make two Secondary Gunnery attacks against separate targets during your Surface Attack step.
Extended Range 5
Torpedo Defense 1

#28 USS Princeton Rare

#29 USS Salt Lake City Rare

#30 USS Samuel B. Roberts Common

#31 USS St. Lo Uncommon

#32 USS Tennessee Rare

#33 USS Washington Rare

GERMANY

#34 Admiral Graf Spee Rare
1939 Ship - Cruiser
Cost 21, Speed 2
Attacks: Main 12/12/11/10, Secondary 6/6/5/5, Antiair 6, Torpedo 2/1
Armor 4, Vital Armor 10, Hull Points 3
Extended Range 4

#35 Bismarck Rare
1940 Ship - Battleship
Cost 53, Speed 2, Flagship Bonus 1
Attacks: Main 15/15/14/12, Secondary 7/7/6/5, Tertiary 5/5/4, Antiair 8
Armor 8, Vital Armor 15, Hull Points 5
Extended Range 4
Torpedo Defense 1

#36 Fw 200 Kondor Uncommon

#37 Ju 87B Stuka Common

#38 Koln Uncommon

#39 Nordmark Uncommon

#40 Scharnhorst Rare

#41 U 510 Common

#42 Z 20 Karl Galster Common

ITALY

#43 Ambra Common

#44 Bolzano Rare

#45 Emanuele Filberto Duca d'Aosta Uncommon

#46 Luca Tarigo Common
1940 Ship - Destroyer
Cost 8, Speed 2
Attacks: Main 5/5/4, Antiair 4, ASW 3, Torpedo 2/1
Armor 2, Vital Armor 7, Hull Points 2
Sub Hunter - At the end of the second player's Sea Movement step, you may place this unit in an adjacent sector that contains an enemy Submarine.
Lay Smoke Screen - Instead of attacking during your Surface Attack step, this unit can make a local smoke screen. A sector containing a smoke screen blocks line of sight. A unit in a smoke screen has concealment. Remove the smoke screen at the end of the next turn.

#47 Motor Torpedo Boat Common

#48 Vittorio Veneto Rare

JAPAN

#49 A6M2 Zeke Common
1941 Aircraft - Fighter
Cost 6, Speed A
Attacks: Main 2, Antiair 7
Armor 6, Vital Armor 8, Hull Points 1
Combat Air Patrol - At the end of the Air Mission phase, if this unit is in a sector that contains a friendly Carrier and no enemy Aircraft, you may move this unit to a sector within range 2 that contains an enemy Aircraft.
Escort - If this unit is in the same sector as a friendly Bomber, enemy fighters get -1 on each attack die when making Antiair attacks against that Bomber.
Surprise - If it's the first turn of the game, this unit rolls one extra attack die when attacking.

#50 Akagi Rare

#51 B5N2 Kate Common

#52 D3A Val Common

#53 G4M Betty Uncommon

#54 I-19 Uncommon
1941 Submarine
Cost 13, Speed 1
Attacks: Torpedo 3/3/2/1
Armor 3, Vital Armor 7, Hull Points 2
Submerged Shot
Finish Him Off - This unit rolls one extra attack die when attacking damaged ships.

#55 Jintsu Uncommon

#56 Kinai Maru Uncommon

#57 Kongo Rare

#58 Myoko Rare
1941 Ship - Cruiser
Cost 24, Speed 2, Flagship Bonus 1
Attacks: Main 10/10/9/7, Secondary 4/4/3, Antiair 6, Torpedoes 3/3/2/1
Armor 4, Vital Armor 9, Hull Points 3
Night Fighter - Once per game, if it's turn 4 or later, this unit may reroll one Gunnery attack.
Long-Lance Torpedoes

#59 Shoho Uncommon

#60 Shokaku Rare
1941 Ship - Carrier
Cost 20, Speed 2, Flagship Bonus 1, Basing Capacity 3
Attacks: Main 6/6/4, Antiair 7
Armor 4, Vital Armor 10, Hull Points 4
Expert Dogfighter
Expert Bomber 2

#61 Tone Rare
1941 Ship - Cruiser
Cost 23, Speed 2
Attacks: Main 9/9/8/6, Secondary 4/4/3, Antiair 7, Torpedo 3/2/1/1
Armor 4, Vital Armor 8, Hull Points 3
Scout Cruiser - At the beginning of your Air Attack step, you may choose an enemy Ship. Your units roll one extra attack die when making Bomb or Gunnery attacks against that Ship this turn.
Long-Lance Torpedoes - Each torpedo hit rolled by this unit deals 1 extra point of hull damage.

#62 Type 13 Subchaser Common

http://www.wizards.com/global/images/ah_aam_ah20070314c_picMain_en.jpg

http://www.wizards.com/global/images/ah_aam_ah20070314c_pic1_en.jpg
#63 Yamato Rare
1942 Ship - Battleship
Cost 70, Speed 2, Flagship Bonus 2
Attacks: Main 18/18/16/15, Secondary 8/8/7/5, Tertiary 5/5/3, Antiair 7
Armor 10, Vital Armor 16, Hull Points 6
Extended Range 4
Torpedo Defense 1

#64 Yukikaze Common

[Digger]

Bob mentioned the scale of the Iowa and a Uboat so I would guess they might also be in the mix.

[Sean-Khan]

What about the planes? I can't make them out well... Don't recognize *** planes at all, is US plane Dauntless?

[mu11etboyz93]

Probably cuz that one ship gives a bonus to dive bombers.

[Mpedersen84]

What about the planes? I can't make them out well... Don't recognize *** planes at all, is US plane Dauntless?
the US plane is a PBY catalina, bigger planes like that and the condor come as 1 actual plane, where as smaller planes like dauntless will be in groups of 3 small planes on 1 stand

[Sturmgrenadier]

Curious where you get the guesstimates on the Bismark for Germany and the Yamato for Japan? No guesses for England, France or Italy?

<edit>Mine would be...
England
HMS Hood

France
Richleau

Italy
Vittorio Veneto
I guess King George V or Prince of Wales for England, depend on what theatre it’s going to be

[Sean-Khan]

I believe that this thread was meant solely for collecting hard info about what we know and not guesses. Luckily some people have sharp eyes and have seen images from booster fronts & sides :)

[Joisey]

Curious where you get the guesstimates on the Bismark for Germany and the Yamato for Japan? No guesses for England, France or Italy?

<edit>Mine would be...
England
HMS Hood

France
Richleau

Italy
Vittorio Veneto
These and the Iowa are pretty much certain to be in the first set.

[mdescalzo]

These and the Iowa are pretty much certain to be in the first set.

I'd think the Fletcher will be there, too. It was the M1 Garand of the Navy. I just want to know which flavor the Fletcher comes in.

[Joisey]

I'd think the Fletcher will be there, too. It was the M1 Garand of the Navy. I just want to know which flavor the Fletcher comes in.
If the AAM treatment of the Sherman is any indication, I'd say "All of them"! :)

[Shagohad]

Can't wait to see more. Keep up the good work.

[Richter von Manthofen]

Bathurst Class Corvette
River Class Destroyer
V - N class Destroyer

[Joisey]

I would expect the Germans to get their excellent Z class destroyers. The Japanese had a plethora of destroyer classes, so it's hard to say which one(s) they'll get.

[Cruizin2000]

The was one class of Japanese destroyers that had only one ship. The Kamikaze I think.

C2000

[Richter von Manthofen]

I would expect the Germans to get their excellent Z class destroyers. The Japanese had a plethora of destroyer classes, so it's hard to say which one(s) they'll get.

All German Destroyers had the Z-Designation (Z for Zerstoerer) There were only two basic types The older Type 34 and the newer Type 36. I'd Like to get both...

[Dugger]

The japanese carriers Akagi and Kaga would be nice to see along with the Lexington and the Enterprise.
british Ark Royal and the Hood,germans Bismarkand the Graf Spree the French who cares but any of the italian big guns would be great

[Joisey]

Boy, I'm really getting an education on my naval history here! :)

Guess I'm thinking of the Type 36 then.

For Set I, I'd think you'd get the most popular classes. WotC has shown a propensity for not being overly fond of releases in chronological order. I expect Set I to be all over the place time-wise.

They can stretch this out into quite a few sets if every carrier and battleship that fought in WWII is unique. Do you realize that you could fill all 24 rare slots JUST with the WWI holdovers that started the war in the Royal Navy?!?

Maybe that will be AANM Set V: Reserves! :) :)

[Joisey]

The japanese carriers Akagi and Kaga would be nice to see along with the Lexington and the Enterprise.
british Ark Royal and the Hood,germans Bismarkand the Graf Spree the French who cares but any of the italian big guns would be great
I'll be pretty annoyed if Set I doesn't have all of the Japanese carriers at Pearl Harbor.

And I at least want the 3 American Carriers at Midway too.

[mu11etboyz93]

if theres islands maybe therell be coastal guns.

[Joisey]

if theres islands maybe therell be coastal guns.
Ewwww! I hope not! I can buy tons of third party stuff to represent coastal guns that will look way better than what WotC is likely to produce (need I say more than their awful pillbox mini?).

A coastal gun would probably give us something akin to the infamous 3" gun. It'll be a cheap filler taking up the slot of a real mini.

[Sean-Khan]

I also hope that there's coastal guns & airports & such in the game. I don't think it would be too bad if 1 or 2 common slots would be put to these, but I think I'd prefer them being part of island cards.

I wonder if by default islands are played like terrain tiles in DDM?

[Dugger]

that would be six *** carriers and and at least 4 american carriers that would make 10 rares right there Joisey

I know there were only three american carriers at Midway but i still want the lexington to be released in this set which sunk before Midway and the Coral Sea Battle in May of 42

[Cruizin2000]

There is alot of ships that were the only ones in the class. This scares me money-wise. Here's a few:

Japan
Akagi, Kaga, Hiryu, Soryu, Ryujo, Ryuho, Shinano, Taiho, and Hosho.

US
Langley, Ranger, and Wasp.

British
Hood, Ark Royal, Vanguard, Eagle and Hermes.

Others would be like the Aquila (IT), Graf Zeppelin (GR), Berne (FR).

I'm sure that there is others but I cannot remember their names at the moment.

C2000

[Joisey]

There is alot of ships that were the only ones in the class. This scares me money-wise. Here's a few:

Japan
Akagi, Kaga, Hiryu, Soryu, Ryujo, Ryuho, Shinano, Taiho, and Hosho.

US
Langley, Ranger, and Wasp.

British
Hood, Ark Royal, Vanguard, Eagle and Hermes.

Others would be like the Aquila (IT), Graf Zeppelin (GR), Berne (FR).

I'm sure that there is others but I cannot remember their names at the moment.

C2000
The Japanese and Brits have a staggering number of different BB's as well.

[Shagohad]

I know for a fact that I'm getting this game and the Star Wars fleet game. Talked about this one to my friends at school. They liked the idea and the fact that you can get the Bismark.

[hornet69]

the U.S.S. ARIZONA would be a sweet piece .give her a chance to fight then die at pearl harbour.

[357FTG]

Tragic will take a force of 15 PT boats to gencon and destoy every BB he comes against

[RBloom0566]

There is alot of ships that were the only ones in the class. This scares me money-wise. Here's a few:

Japan
Akagi, Kaga, Hiryu, Soryu, Ryujo, Ryuho, Shinano, Taiho, and Hosho.

US
Langley, Ranger, and Wasp.

British
Hood, Ark Royal, Vanguard, Eagle and Hermes.

Others would be like the Aquila (IT), Graf Zeppelin (GR), Berne (FR).

I'm sure that there is others but I cannot remember their names at the moment.

C2000

I've got one for you!

WaS: Reserves!
United States
DBB Montana Class

[Sean-Khan]

I know for a fact that I'm getting this game and the Star Wars fleet game. Talked about this one to my friends at school. They liked the idea and the fact that you can get the Bismark.
Wow, so there are people that are getting into both of these :p I may well end up that way too. I'm still undecided about both games, but fighter sizes are a big plus for WaS. One of the criterias for me for getting SW fleet game is the chance of getting some iconic OT capital ships easily - especially Imperial Star Destroyer. If it is very rare, everyone will want several & packs cost $22, I'm pretty surely straight out and looking forward to WaS only.

Hm, there's no speculative set list up yet? I would have started one if I knew more about ww2 naval warfare, when I tried to put up something I realized there's so much I'm not aware of :o what I noticed is that planes can easily take up half of the common slots - especially if there's more land-operated ships than scouts.

[Hellcat]

Heh, i'll take 12 *** DDs with their Longlance torps and pwn you all. Give me a Simakaze, Fubuki's, and Kagero's and i'll rule the day! If they don't take into account the deadliness of the Longlance i'll drop the game there and then. Unless of course I can build up a crazy *** Cruiser force. Then i'll stay.

[Joisey]

Heh, i'll take 12 *** DDs with their Longlance torps and pwn you all. Give me a Simakaze, Fubuki's, and Kagero's and i'll rule the day! If they don't take into account the deadliness of the Longlance i'll drop the game there and then. Unless of course I can build up a crazy *** Cruiser force. Then i'll stay.
Weren't American torpedoes unreliable as well? I seem to recall that in the early war they had a lot of duds.

[XAos]

Long lance had several virtues over allied torpedoes.
1) Faster than any other WW-II torpedo.
2) Longer Ranged.
3) Used compressed oxygen as a propellant, so it left no phospherescent bubble trail in the water. That was very important in night combat. The first warning of a Japanese torpedo attack was often the explosions of the Torpedoe hits, in an otherwise dark & silent night patrol.
4) They worked. :D

As Joisey mentioned the US navy started the war with torpedoes that were virtually worthless as weapons. The magnetic detonators worked fine in test shots. But failed against real targets. Because they were affected by the earths magnetic field. i.e. they could be callibrated to work in the specific lattitude the test shot was occuring. But fired in a different location. They would either not detonate. Or detonate immediatly after fireing.

Heh, i'll take 12 *** DDs with their Longlance torps and pwn you all.
I'd want the Kitikami or Oi; Light cruisers refitted to fire 40 long lance torpedoes in a single salvo. :D

[Zissou]

I hope they a made of strong plastic. I would hate to have a bismarck curved. :(


Bob when you get details/pics of the map can you post them for us.


PLEASR

[Autarch]

I hope they a made of strong plastic. I would hate to have a bismarck curved. :(


Bob when you get details/pics of the map can you post them for us.


PLEASR

Don't trust the promotional pics. These minis are not completely representative of what you pull out of a booster. The promotional pics tend to have cleaner lines, better paint detail and no bent barrels:

http://www.wizards.com/avalonhill/images/dday_gallery/marder2.jpg

[Rick]

Hmmm..... I cannot help but wonder how deep our 'love' of AAM really is when we rant and rave and seemingly nearly swoon over a game that is NOT EVEN TO MARKET YET!

Sheesh, it seems as if the death knell is being rung on AAM by it's own die hard loyalists, US!

Rick

[Zissou]

Don't trust the promotional pics. These minis are not completely representative of what you pull out of a booster. The promotional pics tend to have cleaner lines, better paint detail and no bent barrels:

http://www.wizards.com/avalonhill/images/dday_gallery/marder2.jpg

That's why I said I hope they are made of strong plastic. I want the good stuff damn it!

[Sean-Khan]

What, don't you want a Bismark that resembles rocking chair on the board? :D Yup, I agree, that they should be hard plastic and I believe they really are.

Why I'm especially interested in 1st set is that in addition of getting lots of iconic stuff, the first set MUST be of high quality if producer wants to sell the product. It seems to have been tradition with WotC games that the first set is always high quality, but later there's been some problems with quality. Well, of course Harbinger started it all so techniques weren't yet developed, but with later products that's true.

Also, both new WotC ship/spaceship games are so expensive that if the minis aren't of good quality they will fail.

[Cruizin2000]

The Japanese and Brits have a staggering number of different BB's as well.

More so with the Brits than the Japanese. Some Japanes BBs were built by the Brits.

Japanese BBs -

Fuso/Yamashiro, Yamato/Musashi, Kirishima/Kongo/Hiei/Haruna, Mustu/Nagato, Hyuga/Ise.

There's 5 classes with 12 total BBs.

It's too early in the morning to start thinking about British BBs and their classes.

C2000

[TheJudge]

Off the top of my head:

Hood
Nelson/Rodney
Queen Elizabeth class (about 5 ships as I recall)
King George V (Prince of Wales, Howe, Anson, Duke of York, etc)
Vanguard- only 1 made and it was scrapped in the 50's for some dumb reason
They still had quite a few older ships still in service when the war broke out and these were mostly used for convoy escort and coastal defense. Royal Oak, Resolution, Malaya, etc.

I'd say the Brits had at least 20 different BB's in 1941 but had the unfortunate task of covering the Atlantic, Med, and Far East.

[Joisey]

Minis with warped hulls would be a total deal breaker for me. If that's what WotC puts out then it makes the call not to purchase an easy one.

More nuanced will be if WotC uses two different grades of plastic resin, one for the hull sculpt, and a different, cheaper grade for the turrets of the capital ships, which will have a rivet to let the turret swivel, and movable main guns (what's the over under on how soon they phase that out to save money?) I can unfortunately forsee a situation where we have satisfactorily rigid hulls but the usual bent gun barrels on the main guns. Imagine the Bismarck with the panzer IV D blurry turret.

What will your attitude be for purchasing if this is the case?

Twenty different BB classes for the Japanese, you say? Well, that's got to be worth a few Sets alone.

[Cruizin2000]

Twenty different Japanese BBs plus the conversions that took place over the years with AA updates and the Hyuga/Ise w/flight deck conversions.

I wonder if they'll do the Shinano as the Yamato class BB? Will we get both versions of the Mogami? How about the Chitose and Chiyoda - subtender/floatplane carriers converted to aircraft carriers. Maybe the Akagi and Kaga as battlecruisers?

C2000

[Joisey]

Interesting question. I was aware that Japan converted a few of their BB's to hybrid CV's by removing the rear turrets and creating a small flight deck (American pilots called them hermaphrodites). So, which ship do you get, pre or post conversion, or both?

I also believe that the one or two BB's that were salvaged from the raid on Pearl Harbor got an extensive refit during that process, making the ship look very different visually.

I would expect to get the Shinano as it was completed, as a CV. If we start getting into hypothetical ships.....well, I'd expect that maybe for the last set in the series. You know, the Soviet Union had a whole new surface fleet on the drawing boards that never got built, the steel going instead into tank production.

[Cruizin2000]

The Shinano had fixtures on the front edges of the flight deck for rockets. I believe that the Junyo and Hiyo had the same thing for the rockets.

I think that all but two BBs at Pearl were raised and went to war.

I'm thinking that Wizards will make all possible options on the ships. Look at what they've done with the Sherman. Plus, there's more money to make off of two Hyugas than one. ;)

C2000

[Panzercommander]

I wonder how compatible it will be with regular A&A minis. I mean not where you could use the ships on the regular A&A mini maps, but where the aircraft are the same sizes as the regular A&A mini ones, that way you can have a flight of dauntlesses come and bomb a Japanese tank column or a flight of stukas can bomb an American destroyer. That could be cool! You could maybe even combined both games into one big battle on land, sea, and air. That would be good for a pacific campaign.

[Imperious leader]

If AH does the job correctly they wont be offering all those marginal ships that had abolutely no impact on the war. Those two BBAV Ise and Hyaga had hardly any value to IJN. As you know those planes were catapulted and only the float planes could be extracted. The rest of her planes had to land on some island. Thats hardly any credible war vessel. The Shinano launched in 1944 will have limited potential because it missed most of the campaigns of the war so its role in a historical scenario will be very limited. The best thing would be to release only the basic Japanese class ships, so the maximum number of options could be enjoyed for historical scenarios. The battlecruiser Akagi and Kaga would be basically another kongo class Battleship copied from british designs. The japanese were better served with their conversion to carriers.

[Lotus]

I wonder how compatible it will be with regular A&A minis. I mean not where you could use the ships on the regular A&A mini maps, but where the aircraft are the same sizes as the regular A&A mini ones, that way you can have a flight of dauntlesses come and bomb a Japanese tank column or a flight of stukas can bomb an American destroyer. That could be cool! You could maybe even combined both games into one big battle on land, sea, and air. That would be good for a pacific campaign.

Combine 'em in campaigns. Not in battles.

I'm 99.9% sure they are incompatible. The .1% is just in case I woke up in a different world than I was in yesterday.

[Panzercommander]

Combine 'em in campaigns. Not in battles.

I'm 99.9% sure they are incompatible. The .1% is just in case I woke up in a different world than I was in yesterday.
Yea thats what I ment, campaigns. Well if the aircraft are the same size, I can make seperate stats for them in reg A&A and vice versa for the other aircraft. The corsair will be easy

[RichardBaker]

The War at Sea set leans toward the early war rather than the late war. It's more about Coral Sea and Midway than Leyte Gulf. So, while the US would much rather have Avenger torpedo bombers, we gave 'em Devastators instead (on the bright side, they're cheap). There are a few exceptions -- the Iowa or the Samuel Roberts, for example. We couldn't do the set without getting the Iowa out there.

We didn't include the Shinano in the first set, but we're thinking it would be an excellent addition to set 2; even though it never saw action, it occupies a very interesting "niche" as a high-defense low-capacity carrier. Generally, we tried to fill set 1 with high-utility high-prominence units, so odd ducks like the Shinano didn't make it in. But yes, you will definitely have the Fletcher, the Z31, the Yukikaze (a Kagero-class), and other "basics" for the big navies. We couldn't provide everything; there are a couple of important classes I wish we could have put into the first set. But we gotta save some sugar for set 2.

Oh, and BTW: I just finished reading "Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors." It's a great, great book, one of the best on WW2 naval combat I've ever read (and I've read quite a few). Bob Ballard's "Lost Ships of Guadalcanal" is a very good read too if you run across it. Encounters like the Battle off Samar or the Ironbottom Sound fights are what War at Sea does best.

[Stojakovic]

Thanks... counting down the daysto WAS :)


By the way will we see the Arizona?

[johnnyonthespot]

By the way will we see the Arizona?

Aw, heck. Since you're asking...

Will we see the USS North Carolina in the WAS base set?

[Stojakovic]

Aw, heck. Since you're asking...

Will we see the USS North Carolina in the WAS base set?

Back off... I asked first :)

How about a U571 or a pink sub. You can answer that 3rd...

I have a better Idea, just give us a list of all the stuff in set 1. PLEASE

[Modern Major-General]

The Quick Start Rules are available. You can see the stat cards for the Bismarck and the Iowa. Some numbers are hard to read and the text for the abilities, as well. Also, the Canberra (Australia) stat card is listed, so I will have to add that later, or someone else can post it here.

Anyway, the rules look good. Lots of phases, damage gets applied at the end of each phase, 6's count for two damage, and the map is divded into squares for sea sectors.

[Modern Major-General]

Let's try this again.

*bump to the front*

[Joisey]

Using my Adobe Reader magnifying glass:

Bristling With Guns: This unit can make Secondary Gunnery attacks <illegible> during your <illegible> attack <illegible>.

Extended Range X: While undamaged, this unit can make range 1 <illegible> Main Gunnery attacks while at range 3 <illegible>.

Torpedeo Defense X: Each torpedeo hit <illegible> against this unit <illegible> 1 less point of hull damage.

[Stojakovic]

How do you read that? You must have eagle eyes.

[shousa]

Don't forget the Canberra! We got her stat card, too.

[Modern Major-General]

Update

Added HMAS Canberra

I think I got the special abilities right. One word is missing from Bristling With Guns and I think it may be 'twice', as in a ship can make Secondary attacks twice in the Surface Attack phase.

Still missing the unit set numbers and Flagship Bonus.

[Stojakovic]

@ MMG

From Stoj’s bat eyes

Bismarck:

FS: 4
#35/64

Uss Iowa

FS 3

#27

[RBloom0566]

The War at Sea set leans toward the early war rather than the late war. It's more about Coral Sea and Midway than Leyte Gulf. So, while the US would much rather have Avenger torpedo bombers, we gave 'em Devastators instead (on the bright side, they're cheap). There are a few exceptions -- the Iowa or the Samuel Roberts, for example. We couldn't do the set without getting the Iowa out there.

We didn't include the Shinano in the first set, but we're thinking it would be an excellent addition to set 2; even though it never saw action, it occupies a very interesting "niche" as a high-defense low-capacity carrier. Generally, we tried to fill set 1 with high-utility high-prominence units, so odd ducks like the Shinano didn't make it in. But yes, you will definitely have the Fletcher, the Z31, the Yukikaze (a Kagero-class), and other "basics" for the big navies. We couldn't provide everything; there are a couple of important classes I wish we could have put into the first set. But we gotta save some sugar for set 2.

Oh, and BTW: I just finished reading "Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors." It's a great, great book, one of the best on WW2 naval combat I've ever read (and I've read quite a few). Bob Ballard's "Lost Ships of Guadalcanal" is a very good read too if you run across it. Encounters like the Battle off Samar or the Ironbottom Sound fights are what War at Sea does best.

I noticed you said you gave the US the TBD Devestator with the premier set because it was early war. Will you be upgrading aircraft availability with follow-on sets (ie. US gets the TBD Avenger, SBD HellDiver and F6F HellCat in set 2 to replace the TBD Devestator, SBD Dauntless and F4F Wildcat)?

[johnnyonthespot]

Well, here's some info for your master list from the War at Sea opening salvo up (http://boards.avalonhill.com/showthread.php?t=16206) thread, as per Richard Baker:

1) USS North Carolina (battleship) will not be in the Base Set, or likely to come anytime soon, I guess.:mad:
2) USS Washington (battleship) will be in the Base Set.:(
3) Naval patrol bombers - Catalinas, Betties, and Kondors - will be in the Base Set.:cool:

[johnnyonthespot]

From that same thread, here are some more units that are included in the Base Set, with pics:

TBD Devastator
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/28/TBD_Devastator_2.jpg

USS Samuel Roberts (DE-413) - (Butler-class destroyer escort)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ec/Samrobertsh90603.jpg

USS Fletcher (DD-445) - (Fletcher class destroyer)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/USS_Fletcher%3B0544514.jpg

[johnnyonthespot]

And some more:

Yukikaze (Japanese Kagero-class destroyer)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Japanese_destroyer_Yukikaze%3Bh73052.jpg





SS Jeremiah O'Brien (US Liberty Ship)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/99/SSJeremiahOBrien.jpg





Z31 - Narvick class destroyer (Germany)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Narvick-class.jpg

[TheCygnysGuardian]

Did someone say DAUNTLESS!?

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/NARG/images/sbd-3.jpg

[andrewsvan]

I just read a couple of pages from the Quick Start Guide and I am definitely sold on WAS. I cant wait for March!!!!!!!!!!

[johnnyonthespot]

More pics:

USS Washington (North Carolina class battleship)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cc/Uss_washington_bb.jpg




Catalina (US)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/PBY_Catalina_landing.jpg

[johnnyonthespot]

Even more pics:


Fw 200 Kondor (Germany)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/Focke_Wulf_Fw200.jpg




Mitsubishi G4M "Betty" (Japan)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/80/G4M_701st_Kokutai_Ohka.jpg

[TheCygnysGuardian]

I hope the British get the Short Sunderland.

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/BARC/images/sunderland-1.jpg

They didn't call it the Flying Porcupine for nothing. In one case, a single Sunderland was attacked by eight Ju-88s. Three 88s were shot down & the rest were driven off.

[Stojakovic]

There will be a HMS Hood in the Base set. Yuppers you heard right. :D

[johnnyonthespot]

There will be a HMS Hood in the Base set. Yuppers you heard right. :D

Well, I would hope so if they are including the Bismarck.

BTW, where did you get this from?

[Stojakovic]

Well, I would hope so if they are including the Bismarck.

BTW, where did you get this from?

Smurfs. But they only seem to come out when I have to much to drink. :D

[johnnyonthespot]

Smurfs. But they only seem to come out when I have to much to drink. :D

Aren't you too young to drink?:eek:

I seem to remember you posting pictures of your flooded high school a while back. Sorry to be ****, but I am a (young) high school teacher and can't condone that kind of thing...:)

[Fallschirmjager]

I'm curious, what if they put in the Essex?

[Stojakovic]

Aren't you too young to drink?:eek:

I seem to remember you posting pictures of your flooded high school a while back. Sorry to be ****, but I am a (young) high school teacher and can't condone that kind of thing...:)


I am in college :D


Oh and it’s a New York state law that if you are under age you can drink in your own home. But If you get drunk and step out side of you property, the parents or guardian will get busted. I must have a cool dad if he buys me Vodka and Rum.

[Photoner Hawkwind]

Aren't you too young to drink?:eek:

I seem to remember you posting pictures of your flooded high school a while back. Sorry to be ****, but I am a (young) high school teacher and can't condone that kind of thing...:)
He graduated and is in college now. I don't remember the drinking age in NY as I was only 8 when I left.

[Photoner Hawkwind]

I was hoping to get an Arizona in set one. But I wonder if it would have a move of 0? :rolleyes:

[Stojakovic]

I was hoping to get an Arizona in set one. But I wonder if it would have a move of 0? :rolleyes:

possibly Set II. :)

[Muenchausen]

He graduated and is in college now. I don't remember the drinking age in NY as I was only 8 when I left.

Twenty one

[Stojakovic]

Twenty one

21 in public.

[johnnyonthespot]

Hey Modern Major General,

Would you mind updating your list with the units that have been confirmed? It would be a nice reference.

[horacus]

Hey Modern Major General,

Would you mind updating your list with the units that have been confirmed? It would be a nice reference.

It's a very good idea.

[Modern Major-General]

I believe we were told that we would get AANM previews in January of February. If there are stat cards for new ships then let me know.

However, if you are asking about updates to put in placeholder names of ships in the checklist, then the answer would be no.

[johnnyonthespot]

OK, then.

Well, just for reference here are the confirmed units so far:

Australia
HMAS Canberra (Cruiser)

France
none

UK
none

US
USS Enterprise (Carrier)
USS Iowa (Battleship)
Devastator (Torpedo Bomber)
USS Washington (Battleship)
USS Samuel Roberts (destroyer escort)
USS Fletcher (destroyer)
SS Jeremiah O'Brien (Liberty Ship)
Catalina (bomber)

Germany
Bismarck (battleship)
Z-31 (destroyer)
Fw 200 Kondor (bomber)

Italy
none

Japan
IJN Yamato (battleship)
IJN Yukikaze (destroyer)
Mitsubishi G4M Betty (bomber)
Aichi D3A "Val" (bomber)
Nakajima B5N2 "Kate" (bomber)

[Joisey]

17 down, 47 to go. I'm sure we'll see the Richelieu, the Veneto Littoria(sp?), the Hood and the King George. Probably the carrier that was involved in sinking the Bismarck, too. Was that the Illustrious or the Ark Royal?

[Cruizin2000]

17 down, 47 to go. I'm sure we'll see the Richelieu, the Veneto Littoria(sp?), the Hood and the King George. Probably the carrier that was involved in sinking the Bismarck, too. Was that the Illustrious or the Ark Royal?

Ark Royal would be the answer.

C2000

[Belisarius]

Ark Royal would be the answer.

C2000

Actually, "both" would be the answer. They both participated. Ark Royal's stringbags scored the hit that jammed the Bismarck's rudder. Illustrious' Swordfish launched an earlier attack.

But I would assume we would see Ark Royal in the first set.

[Joisey]

While we're waiting for more preview info, let's pass the time by whetting our appetites for holding some beautiful ship models in our hands:

Maybe the first mini you'll pull out of the box will look like this ship. What is this ship's name?

[TheCygnysGuardian]

It's a US battleship, right? That's all I got.

[Joisey]

That would be a yes.

[Photoner Hawkwind]

Ah! Man! I wanted to pull a Carrier out of my first booster and all I got was a battleship.:(

[Muenchausen]

1st guess is the Arkansas, the second is the California.

[Belisarius]

I don't think it's the California (the Tennessee-class' main armament was 12 14" guns in 4 turrets; from the photo it looks like this battlewagon has 2 guns per turret). It could be a New York-class (New York or Texas) or it might be the Arkansas (The New York-class carried 10 14" guns, the Wyoming-class carried 10 12" guns). If the main guns are 12", it's the Arkansas. If they are 14", New York or Texas.

[Autarch]

West Virginia.

[MarcusAurelius]

I think Autarch's on the right track, it's either the West Virginia or the Colorado (both Colorado-class battleships).

[Joisey]

USS Colorado! :D

[Joisey]

Okay, now for something a little tougher:

Name this ship

[Joisey]

Uh, I think it's the 'Gold' something or other...
I think.

Okay, no cheating wise guy! :rolleyes:

[TheCygnysGuardian]

What? It's not cheating, it's called taking an educated guess.
<Edit>
Fine. I fold.

[Sharpe]

Is it the Bearn?

[Joisey]

Yes. Pfft. Alright, I'm making sure the file name doesn't give it away from now on. Grrr!

[Sharpe]

What's a file name? It just wasn't British, US or Japanese. Not a lot left to choose from. Give me a break. Besides, look at the tail on the plane.

[TheCygnysGuardian]

Okay, let me try one.
Guess that ship.

[Raptor]

A Yukikaze class DD?

[TheCygnysGuardian]

Close, but no cigar.

[TheCygnysGuardian]

The answer is:
The IJN’s Ayanami (綾波), a Type II Fubuki class destroyer.

[srgt. cody myers]

i have a question do the a and a come pre glued

[shousa]

i have a question do the a and a come pre glued

They don't need gluing unless something is wrong. They come fully assembled and painted.

[Joisey]

Here's another one. Name this ship:

[Stealth]

Here's another one. Name this ship:

That would be the Tone or Chikuma, 8x8" guns forward and a floatplane deck aft.

-Stealth7

[Joisey]

Correct, IJN Tone.

[Belisarius]

This is turning into a fun thread. Hmm. Let's see if I can get actually attach a photo...

http://www.hmscavalier.org.uk/L03/L03.jpg

Name this ship.

[TheCygnysGuardian]

The Tribal-class destroyer HMS Cossack?

[Belisarius]

Bingo! (I realize the "L03" on the side was a bit of a giveaway; I was looking for photos that didn't weren't along the lines of "hms_cossack.jpg" and such.)

[TheCygnysGuardian]

Okay folks, step right up & name that ship.

[Stealth]

[QUOTE=TheCygnysGuardian;214797]Okay folks, step right up & name that ship.[/QUOTE

Akagi....Definitely one of the ships I want from WAS...

[TheCygnysGuardian]

The IJN’s Akagi ( 赤城) is correct!

[Belisarius]

O.K., here's another one. Name That Ship!

http://www.marina.difesa.it/Storia/Almanacco/Parte04/images/Foto04g/n0422-01cg.jpg

[Richter von Manthofen]

Zara Class Cruiser?

[Belisarius]

Zara Class Cruiser?

Close, but no cigar. :)

Next?

[Stealth]

O.K., here's another one. Name That Ship!

http://www.marina.difesa.it/Storia/Almanacco/Parte04/images/Foto04g/n0422-01cg.jpg

Italian Trieste Cruiser?

[Belisarius]

Also close, but still no cigar!

[TheCygnysGuardian]

Dang man, you're stumping everyone! The Italian Bolzano?

[Belisarius]

All y'all are thinking a little too big, if you catch my drift.... ;)

[TheCygnysGuardian]

Can I use a life line?

[MarcusAurelius]

I believe it's the Italian Di Giussano class light cruiser Bartolomeo Colleoni, sunk off Cape Spada in 1940.

[Belisarius]

It's the light cruiser Alberico Da Barbiano (I've seen the class referred to as both the Alberto Di Giussano-class and the Barbiano-class). Launched on 08/23/30, sunk at the Battle of Cape Bon on 12/13/41 by the destroyers HMS Sikh, HMS Maori, HMS Legion, and HMNLS Isaac Sweers.

[MarcusAurelius]

Right class, wrong ship.

[TheCygnysGuardian]

Try this one on for size.

[Stealth]

Try this one on for size.

Japanese Mogami-class? Before the conversion to 8" guns? Its the single funnel thats throwing me.

[MarcusAurelius]

I don't even have a guess for that one.

[TheCygnysGuardian]

Japanese Mogami-class? Before the conversion to 8" guns? Its the single funnel thats throwing me.

Correct. To be exact, the Mikuma (三隈).

[MarcusAurelius]

Here's another:

[TheCygnysGuardian]

Can I use a life line? ;)

[MarcusAurelius]

She's a heavy cruiser that fought in several major WWII naval battles. I'll offer a further lifeline if needed. Your choices are:

A. One battle of note
B. Country of origin
C. Primary armament

[Cruizin2000]

She looks to be an early war US cruiser. 8" guns. Midway was the battle, right? Astoria class?

C2000

[MarcusAurelius]

Yes, it's an early war US cruiser with 8" guns that fought in Midway (among other battles). It's also in the same class as the Astoria.

Can you guess the ship?

[Cruizin2000]

Vincennes?

[MarcusAurelius]

Close, but not quite. The Vincennes earned 2 battle stars for her service at Midway and the Battle of Savo Island. But her sister ship is even more highly decorated.

[Stealth]

Close, but not quite. The Vincennes earned 2 battle stars for her service at Midway and the Battle of Savo Island. But her sister ship is even more highly decorated.

I'll go with the Minneapolis, which received 16 battle stars for World War II service.

[TheCygnysGuardian]

USS New Orleans?

[MarcusAurelius]

You almost have it zeroed in. This ship served in many of the same battles as the Minneapolis, including the Battle of the Coral Sea and Leyte Gulf.

[TheCygnysGuardian]

The USS Tuscaloosa?

[Stealth]

I'll go for the New Orleans....

[MarcusAurelius]

Stealth scores a direct hit! Impressive work. The New Orleans served in virtually every major battle of the Pacific War — including Pearl Harbor, Coral Sea, Midway, Eastern Solomons, Philippine Sea and Leyte Gulf.

Like her sister ship Minneapolis, the New Orleans received a total of 16 battle stars for WWII service.

[TheCygnysGuardian]

USS New Orleans?

So what am I? Chum?

[Stealth]

So what am I? Chum?

Just chopped liver...:eek:

[TheCygnysGuardian]

Nevermind.

[TheCygnysGuardian]

Here's another one to try on for size.

[MarcusAurelius]

Did I fail to detect an earlier hit? Sorry about that.

[TheCygnysGuardian]

Don't worry about it. We posted at the same time.

[Belisarius]

Can I get a lifeline? My ship recognition skills really blow.

[TheCygnysGuardian]

It's a German cruiser.

[Belisarius]

Gracias. I'll check out my sources when I get home, and then invariably come up with the wrong answer! ;)

[TheCygnysGuardian]

Another lifeline: Phone a friend.
AT&T, please get Joe Smith on the phone.
Joe: Yo! Dis is Joe!
Hi Joe, this is TheCyg.
Joe: Hey! Don't you owe me money?
We'll talk about it later. But for now, you must help the others identify this ship. You have thirty secounds.
Joe: Huh. Hmmmmmmmmmm... Oh! I know this one! It's German! And, uh, it reminds me of pants, I think. Aha! I got it! It's the...
*Click*

[Stealth]

It's a German cruiser.

I believe thats the Lutzow, ex-Deutschland. So called 'poket-battleship' class of the Germand navy, rerated to heavy cruisers during the war. 6x11" guns main, a number of 5.9" secondarys.

[Richter von Manthofen]

Admiral Graf Spee

[TheCygnysGuardian]

I believe thats the Lutzow, ex-Deutschland. So called 'poket-battleship' class of the Germand navy, rerated to heavy cruisers during the war. 6x11" guns main, a number of 5.9" secondarys.

Give this man a cigar. Nailed it right on the head.

[Stealth]

Admiral Graf Spee

Couldn't have been the Graf Spee, both her and the Adm Scheer had a much more massive bridge. The bridge on the Lutzow had a cylindrical center portion, with a much smaller bridge.

[Richter von Manthofen]

Whats that?

[Stealth]

Whats that?

Perhaps SMS Baden class? Its kinda hard to get a better understanding with all the torpedo nets and rigging stuff in the way...:)

[Cruizin2000]

Holstein? The first combatant of the war.

C2000

[Richter von Manthofen]

A little hint?

I am no German.

But SMS is OK.

[Stealth]

A little hint?

I am no German.

But SMS is OK.

Any chance on a hint at armament? Maybe number of main turrets? Its kinda hard to beyonf the B turret...

[MarcusAurelius]

This looks like a Tegetthoff class battleship of the Austro-Hungarian navy, perhaps the SMS Szente Istvan. But none of those vessels were still in service at the start of World War II.

[Richter von Manthofen]

12 * 30,5 cm L/45 Geschütze Skoda in triple towers
12 * 15 cm L/50 Geschütze
18 * 7 cm

And yes its a Tegethoff - Class

I am aware no Austrian ships survived to WWII, but I am a bit of a patriot, so I hope for a WWI mini game sometime...

[MarcusAurelius]

12 * 30,5 cm L/45 Geschütze Skoda in triple towers
12 * 15 cm L/50 Geschütze
18 * 7 cm

And yes its a Tegethoff - Class

I am aware no Austrian ships survived to WWII, but I am a bit of a patriot, so I hope for a WWI mini game sometime...

Very tricky...

There were only four ships in the Tegetthoff class (including the aforementioned Szent Istvan), so I've got a 1 in 3 chance:

The SMS Prinz Eugen?

[Richter von Manthofen]

NOPE!

Not Szent Isvan
Not Prinz Eugen

To make it short its the Flaggship Viribus Unitis

[MarcusAurelius]

I'm actually pretty happy with my ship recognition skills on that one (with the help of various online reference sources, of course).

This gives me a new appreciation of how difficult it must have been to identify enemy ships during WWII — even more so when visibility was limited by smoke, fog or nighttime.

[Belisarius]

I'm actually pretty happy with my ship recognition skills on that one (with the help of various online reference sources, of course).

This gives me a new appreciation of how difficult it must have been to identify enemy ships during WWII — even more so when visibility was limited by smoke, fog or nighttime.

Indeed (or even just the nerves of the lookouts).

Well, let's see how people do with this one (probably easy, but it's Friday.... :) ):

http://static.flickr.com/39/82401423_ce68356a0b_m.jpg

[Stealth]

Indeed (or even just the nerves of the lookouts).

Well, let's see how people do with this one (probably easy, but it's Friday.... :) ):

http://static.flickr.com/39/82401423_ce68356a0b_m.jpg

Perhaps the USS Salt Lake City, or Swayback Maru?

[Belisarius]

Perhaps the USS Salt Lake City, or Swayback Maru?

Indeed it is. See, I told you it was easy. :D

[TheCygnysGuardian]

I'm pretty sure that it's a Pensacola-class Heavy Cruiser, though I'm not sure of the exact ship.
<EDIT> Nevermind.

[Belisarius]

I'm pretty sure that it's a Pensacola-class Heavy Cruiser, though I'm not sure of the exact ship.
<EDIT> Nevermind.

Well, you had a fifty-fifty chance. There were only 2 Pensacola-class heavies.

[Belisarius]

Here's one that I'm pretty sure we won't be seeing in WAS:

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/n60000/n68191t.jpg

Anyone want to take a shot at this one?

[Stealth]

Here's one that I'm pretty sure we won't be seeing in WAS:

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/n60000/n68191t.jpg

Anyone want to take a shot at this one?

The lines and the cage mast point to an older US cruiser, but the gun mounts look like WWII era 5-inch and possibly 6-inch. A hint maybe?

[Belisarius]

The lines and the cage mast point to an older US cruiser, but the gun mounts look like WWII era 5-inch and possibly 6-inch. A hint maybe?

You're in the right ballpark. Those are 5-inch guns. But could they possibly have been replacement mounts for something else...? ;)

Hmm. Let's see what other hints I can give you. Her keel was laid down on February 9, 1910, she was launched on May 25, 1911, and commissioned on September 25, 1912. Oh, and she was the lead ship in her class.

[johnnyonthespot]

You're in the right ballpark. Those are 5-inch guns. But could they possibly have been replacement mounts for something else...? ;)

Hmm. Let's see what other hints I can give you. Her keel was laid down on February 9, 1910, she was launched on May 25, 1911, and commissioned on September 25, 1912. Oh, and she was the lead ship in her class.

That would be the USS Wyoming (BB-32).

I know nothing about ships, but I was able to find that out from the dates you gave. Thank you Google! :D

[Belisarius]

Correct, although technically, her designation was AG-17, not BB-32, during World War II. She had been turned into a training ship under the terms of the London Naval Treaty of 1930.

[johnnyonthespot]

All right. Somebody else throw a pic up here. I can't figure out how to do it without linking to another site, and that just gives away the answer...

[Stealth]

You're in the right ballpark. Those are 5-inch guns. But could they possibly have been replacement mounts for something else...? ;)

Hmm. Let's see what other hints I can give you. Her keel was laid down on February 9, 1910, she was launched on May 25, 1911, and commissioned on September 25, 1912. Oh, and she was the lead ship in her class.


Thought that was an odd looking beastie...

Based on the gun mount vs ship size, I was thinking of cruisers. I forgot how small (relatively speaking) those WWI era BB's were.

[Diamondback]

Thought that was an odd looking beastie...

Based on the gun mount vs ship size, I was thinking of cruisers. I forgot how small (relatively speaking) those WWI era BB's were.

Yeah, by OAL the Arizona was actually shorter OAL than a Cleveland-class light cruiser. A while back, some buddies and I were working on developing set ideas for a WWII naval-minis game to pitch to That Other Seattle-Area Tabletop Game Co. Which Will Go Unnamed; I still have my notes from that project and can easily look it up.

[dracos42]

Correct, although technically, her designation was AG-17, not BB-32, during World War II. She had been turned into a training ship under the terms of the London Naval Treaty of 1930.


The Wyoming's guns and turrets were in storage. She could have been rearmed in an emergency. She would be identical to her sister ship Arkansas, if the Arkansas makes it into the game. Probably not, as the Arkansas was the oldest and weakest of the US battleships.

I'll try to post a photo myself tonight.

Mike Lyons

[Diamondback]

I'd say Arkansas should be in either this or W@S set 2, as she was responsible for some of the early-morning shelling of Omaha Beach on D-Day, and provided fire support at Iwo Jima and Okinawa, earning four battle stars. Maybe not the most decorated battleship, but definitely an "Old Reliable". I'd say the only way she should be bumped is if it came down to her or Texas (with 5, also there for D-Day).

Source: DANFS Online, USS Arkansas BB-33. http://hazegray.org/danfs/battlesh/bb33.htm

[Texas_Archer]

I hope I get a U.S.S. Texas (BB-35) out of one of these sets!!!:D :D :D

3056
Displacement: 27,000 tons
Length: 573 ft (175 m)
Beam: 95.2 ft (29.0 m) at the waterline
Draft: 29.5 ft (9.0 m)
Speed: 21 knots (39 km/h)
Complement: 954 officers and men
Armament: 10 × 14 inch (356 mm) guns,
21 × 5 inch (127 mm) guns
4 × 3 pounders (1.4 kg)
4 × 21 inch (533 mm) submerged torpedo tubes

(pic and stats from wikipedia)

[Diamondback]

Speakin' as a serpent whose roots are from down yer way, sir, that's a ditto. If not Set 1, she oughtta be in Set 2.

[dracos42]

I'd say Arkansas should be in either this or W@S set 2, as she was responsible for some of the early-morning shelling of Omaha Beach on D-Day, and provided fire support at Iwo Jima and Okinawa, earning four battle stars. Maybe not the most decorated battleship, but definitely an "Old Reliable". I'd say the only way she should be bumped is if it came down to her or Texas (with 5, also there for D-Day).

Source: DANFS Online, USS Arkansas BB-33. http://hazegray.org/danfs/battlesh/bb33.htm


Also regarding Texas. Either her or New York could have encountered the Bismarck. Both battleships had an escort of three destroyers. If the Americans and Germans had run across each other in the night, the Germans might have taken the American ships to be British and opened fire...

[MarcusAurelius]

After looking back at Richard Baker's early posts about War at Sea, I noticed that he mentioned both PT boat squadrons and sub chasers. So here's an updated list of confirmed units — with the USS Barb and HMS Hood included, as well (per Stojakovic's classified sources).

AUSTRALIA
R HMAS Canberra (County class heavy cruiser)

GERMANY
R Bismarck (Bismarck class battleship)
U Focke-Wulf FW 200 Kondor patrol bomber
C Z-31 (Narvik class destroyer)

JAPAN
R Yamato (Yamato class battleship)
U Mitsubishi G4M "Betty" bomber
C Yukikaze (Kagero class destroyer)
C Aichi D3A "Val" dive bomber
C Nakajima B5N "Kate" torpedo bomber

UK
R HMS Hood (Admiral class battlecruiser)

U.S.
R USS Enterprise (Yorktown class aircraft carrier)
R USS Iowa (Iowa class battleship)
R USS Washington (North Carolina class battleship)
U Consolidated PBY Catalina patrol bomber
C USS Fletcher (Fletcher class destroyer)
C USS Samuel Roberts (Butler class destroyer escort)
C USS Barb (Gato class submarine)
C SS Jeremiah O'Brien (Liberty ship)
C Submarine chaser
C PT boat squadron
C Douglas TBD Devastator torpedo bomber

[Sharpe]

My FLGS owner was looking through a WOTC catalogue today. It had a page for WAS with several clear pictures. Two carriers, a BB, patrol plane, Japanese triple plane stand, DD and Patrol boat/sub chaser.

[Autarch]

Hey Sharpe, did you get to see the pics? How did they look?

[Sharpe]

None were close-ups. They looked okay but I would have needed a magnifying glass to have a chance of identifying the units by name. One carrier was Japanese and I would guess the BB was the Bismarck, but I couldn't say for sure. The lines looked clean and the silhouettes were good.

[TheCygnysGuardian]

C SS Jeremiah O'Brien (Liberty ship)


Query: Why would we be getting this ship? Liberty Ships are cargo ships, right?

[Chops]

It could be used for Murmansk convoy actions. Escorts vs Subs with the liberty ships serving as the scoring system. Other than that, I see no other use for that class of ship to be included.

[Stealth]

It could be used for Murmansk convoy actions. Escorts vs Subs with the liberty ships serving as the scoring system. Other than that, I see no other use for that class of ship to be included.

Cargo ships = moving objectives.

A lot of WWII surface battles were a result of Force A trying to destroy Convoy Z, with Force B intercepting. I love the idea, allows a whole slew of scenarios to be added that are different then 'pick ships then fight'...

[MarcusAurelius]

The Liberty ship is kind of like the War at Sea version of the Higgins boat in AAM. Liberty ships (along with their successors, Victory ships) played a critical role in WWII — transporting tons of supplies and munitions across the Atlantic, Pacific and Indian oceans. I think this unit could make for some great convoy scenarios.

Liberty ships weren't completely defenseless, either. Typical armament included a stern-mounted 4" or 5" deck gun for use against surfaced submarines, along with 3" guns, 37mm cannons and AA machine guns. That's more firepower than a Tiger tank.

In fact, the Liberty ship SS Stephen Hopkins was the first U.S. vessel to sink a German surface combatant during World War II. She encountered the German auxiliary cruiser Stier (armed with six 5.9" guns) in heavy fog en route from Cape Town to Dutch Guiana on September 27, 1942. Because of the fog, the ships were only 2 miles apart when they sighted each other.

Ordered to stop, the Stephen Hopkins refused to surrender, and the Stier opened fire. After a fierce battle, the Liberty ship sank and the heavily damaged Stier was scuttled by its crew less than 2 hours later.

[Belisarius]

Well, it's been a little too quiet here, so let's see if anyone can tell me something about this ship (if I've done it right):

3060

[TheCygnysGuardian]

I think it's German, but I can't be sure.
I'd like to use a lifeline.

[Belisarius]

Nope. It's from one of the Allies.

[MarcusAurelius]

Well, it's been a little too quiet here, so let's see if anyone can tell me something about this ship (if I've done it right):


That's a good one — although the dazzle paint scheme helps narrow it down a bit. Based on the hull design, layout and armament, it looks like a Somers class destroyer of the U.S. Navy.

I'd be more than happy if I just got the class right. But for bonus points, I'll guess at the exact vessel: the USS Warrington (DD-383).

[TheCygnysGuardian]

I think so too, but for some strange reason I thought it was German...

[Belisarius]

That's a good one — although the dazzle paint scheme helps narrow it down a bit. Based on the hull design, layout and armament, it looks like a Somers class destroyer of the U.S. Navy.

I'd be more than happy if I just got the class right. But for bonus points, I'll guess at the exact vessel: the USS Warrington (DD-383).

Very good. It is a Somers-class destroyer, but not the Warrington. It's the USS Sampson (I had to do a bit of searching to find a photo without the hull number on it).

[Belisarius]

O.K., This one's not a quiz. I recently found this photo of my dad's ship. Do you think we'll see and Casablanca-class CVEs?

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h94000/h94876t.jpg

(This couldn't have been much fun, I'm sure....)

[MarcusAurelius]

O.K., This one's not a quiz. I recently found this photo of my dad's ship. Do you think we'll see and Casablanca-class CVEs?

I think we will see a miniature for the Casablanca class escort carrier — but only if War at Sea gets more than 2 sets.

Richard Baker has said that WaS is built more around gunships than carriers. With the USS Enterprise (a Yorktown class carrier) already slated for the first set, my guess is we'd see several other carriers (such as the Lexington, Ranger, Wasp, Essex or Independence classes) first.

[Joisey]

O.K., This one's not a quiz. I recently found this photo of my dad's ship. Do you think we'll see and Casablanca-class CVEs?

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h94000/h94876t.jpg

(This couldn't have been much fun, I'm sure....)

My grandfather captained a liberty ship (actually several) and my father drove a stuart light tank, so I'm already set.

[Modern Major-General]

Well, if you go to your store and ask to see the Wizard's 2007 Miniatures Catalog you will see an ad for War at Sea. Several pics of model ships and planes. No labels to identify the pics, but one is obviously a Japanese carrier. Also, the date of release is March 16.

Is the catalog online?

[Texas_Archer]

3061

Here's another ship, it would be extremely funny if WAS comes out with one of these.:D This was a very solid ship design. by the way, Ever see a submarine with TWO 8" GUNS (Heavy Cruiser calibur):eek: You can find the name of the ship on the picture, but if you look into the career of this ship, it was very interesting.

[Diamondback]

2x8" guns? It's gotta be either HMS M-1 or Le Surcouf, then.

Intriguing idea, fatally-flawed execution.

[Texas_Archer]

not the M-1, the M-1 had one 12" battleship gun that could fire while it was underwater.

[Cruizin2000]

It looks like March 16th will be the release date. I wonder if the new A&A minis set will be out in June?

C2000

[Autarch]

A gun toting sub sounds like a wacky Russian idea, but I guess it's French.

[BossGnome]

yes that submarine is the Surcouf. I am 99% sure. The surcouf, btw, was actually a very good design, it was actually one of the few subs created to assist fleets in surface actions. This is one of the few submarines that I would have no qualms seeing acting in tandem with DDs and such, since that was its purpose. Although I don't believe WaS will actually be able to recreate the stealth factor that was the entire purpose of all submarines, so I'm sort of wondering why theyre including submarines at all...:rolleyes:

[MarcusAurelius]

I don't believe WaS will actually be able to recreate the stealth factor that was the entire purpose of all submarines, so I'm sort of wondering why theyre including submarines at all.

This is one of the aspects of War at Sea that I'm most curious about. I think there's an opportunity here for some very interesting rules and tactics.

What if subs are essentially treated like paratroopers in AAM — able to appear almost anywhere on the map? Or maybe subs can only be attacked at close range, similar to the camouflage SA for snipers. As a counter, destroyers and patrol aircraft could identify subs before they're in torpedo range. (In game terms, subs can't surface within 1-2 spaces of designated recon/sub hunter units.)

Something along those lines seems like a pretty simple mechanic that captures the essence of sub warfare. Of course, we'll have to wait and see...

[Joisey]

yes that submarine is the Surcouf. I am 99% sure. The surcouf, btw, was actually a very good design, it was actually one of the few subs created to assist fleets in surface actions. This is one of the few submarines that I would have no qualms seeing acting in tandem with DDs and such, since that was its purpose. Although I don't believe WaS will actually be able to recreate the stealth factor that was the entire purpose of all submarines, so I'm sort of wondering why theyre including submarines at all...:rolleyes:
There's lots of ways to account for sub abilities abstractly in the rules. The Axis & Allies board game did it by giving subs a First Shot firing opportunity before the first round of combat. Subs were unable to defend against planes, too.

[shadowhooch]

This is one of the aspects of War at Sea that I'm most curious about. I think there's an opportunity here for some very interesting rules and tactics.

What if subs are essentially treated like paratroopers in AAM — able to appear almost anywhere on the map? Or maybe subs can only be attacked at close range, similar to the camouflage SA for snipers. As a counter, destroyers and patrol aircraft could identify subs before they're in torpedo range. (In game terms, subs can't surface within 1-2 spaces of designated recon/sub hunter units.)

Something along those lines seems like a pretty simple mechanic that captures the essence of sub warfare. Of course, we'll have to wait and see...

I'm betting subs will be more like planes (popping up at will) with the destroyers and aircraft having the AntiSubmarine ability to use defensive fire if they pop up near them. The sub probably can't leave the board if disrupted (kinda opposite of aircraft). That's my guess.

I'm also guessing the subs will have the same survivability as AAM planes too.

[MarcusAurelius]

I'm betting subs will be more like planes (popping up at will) with the destroyers and aircraft having the AntiSubmarine ability to use defensive fire if they pop up near them. The sub probably can't leave the board if disrupted (kinda opposite of aircraft). That's my guess.

I'm also guessing the subs will have the same survivability as AAM planes too.

Once subs make an appearance, I don't think they'll be able to leave the board just by submerging (disrupted or not).

Aircraft have this ability in AAM because of their speed. Even the slowest planes of WWII could cover 30 miles in a 10-minute turn. Subs, on the other hand, typically had a top speed of about 20 knots on the surface — less when submerged. That probably translates to a movement of 1 in War at Sea. Plus, submarines were vulnerable to depth charges long after diving.

We'll see whether the game reflects this aspect of naval warfare.

[BossGnome]

yes, the speed of subs dropped sharply from about 20-25 knots to around 8 knots when submerged. I like the idea of having subs pop up anywhere, but then having them retreat would be very interesting... Honestly I am wondering how (and if) WaS will account for this...

[Modern Major-General]

My thoughts as of this moment.

Subs - As someone else above mentioned, I like the idea of them having something like Superior Camo and this would abstractly resemble real sub warfare. You had to be close to attack a sub with Depth Charges, planes, etc.

Rarity, Boosters, Cases, Obtaining a Set

64 models. How many rares, uncommons, and commons? Unknown. My guess is 24 rares, 20 uncommons and 20 commons.

So how does this work for collecting? The boosters will have 5 models, and I belive it was confirmed there would be 1 rare, 1 uncommon and 3 commons. Now, having read the 2007 Miniatures Catalog a couple days ago but did not write down the info, I recall there will be 12 boosters to a case and 6 starters to a case. Therefore, the reason that I am guessing 24 rares is that two cases will give you 24 rares models. You may still need to trade if you get doubles of some rares. This will also give you 24 uncommons, so you will have one of each (hopefully) with some doubles. For commons, this will give you 72, so 3 of each and 4 of at least twelve models. This is good as planes, subs and destroyers will be common and you will want several of certain types.

This also does not take into account the starter. This contains 9 models. Not sure of the rarity breakdown, but if we get one or two rares then that is one or two less boosters to buy. At least for my way of buying and collecting. I buy just one Starter for the rules and I buy enough boosters to equal the number of rares in a set and trade for what I do not get. (Actually, I buy by the case so I sometimes get less or more, then just try my luck with trading.) Okay, as for the Starter rarity, my guess would be 1 rare, 3 uncommon, and 5 common. I would like to see two rares, one for the Axis and Allies. This would make the Starter somewhat like the Star Wars Starship Battles starter where each side (Light and Dark) got a Class 1 rare ship. However, these two models were fixed, ie the same in every starter. The A&A War At Sea page explicitly says the starters and boosters are random.

Carriers and Aircraft Basing

Thinking about the Basing Capacity of the Enterprise (and all carriers.) Here is my guess as to what it may mean:

Looking at the Quick Start rules, you may place two ships, one sub and 4 planes maximum in a sea zone. (Not counting your opponent's units.)

Consider this, planes are just bought as part of your army and can be considered to come from anywhere: land or carriers.

Planes are just placed on the map, there are no rules for landing or taking-off from carriers or airfields.

So why have such a Basing Capacity statistic for the carrier?

Maybe it allows you to overstack planes in a seazone? So, the Enterprise could have 7 planes in its own seazone. This would be like simulating the CAP of a carrier.

[world war III]

we shoud have Suicide Battleships for Japanese because thay did have them

[MarcusAurelius]

64 models. How many rares, uncommons, and commons? Unknown. My guess is 24 rares, 20 uncommons and 20 commons.

WotCBob has confirmed the set distribution: 24 rares, 16 uncommons, 24 commons.

Starters come with 1 rare, 2 uncommons and 6 commons. Boosters include 1 rare, 1 uncommon and 3 commons.

[Stealth]

WotCBob has confirmed the set distribution: 24 rares, 16 uncommons, 24 commons.

Starters come with 1 rare, 2 uncommons and 6 commons. Boosters include 1 rare, 1 uncommon and 3 commons.

Do we have a pricing structure and # boosters per case as yet?

[MarcusAurelius]

So why have such a Basing Capacity statistic for the carrier?

Maybe it allows you to overstack planes in a seazone? So, the Enterprise could have 7 planes in its own seazone. This would be like simulating the CAP of a carrier.

I'm curious about that, as well. The Quick Start rules state:

"In the Air Mission phase, which occurs right after both players move their units, both players take turns placing Aircraft in sectors with enemy units, starting with the first player...The Air Return phase is when you take your Aircraft off the battle map, simulating their return to a land base or Carrier."

It doesn't really say anything about where aircraft begin the game. Even if planes aren't on the battle map at the start or end of a turn, they could still be on a carrier (represented by putting the aircraft miniature on the carrier's stat card).

Perhaps only carrier-based aircraft can take advantage of a carrier's Special Abilities. You also bring up a good question about aircraft and stacking limits.

[MarcusAurelius]

Do we have a pricing structure and # boosters per case as yet?

This was confirmed by WotC Bob a while back.

Retail prices are the same as for AAM: $24.99 for the starter set and $14.99 for boosters. Starters are 6 per case, boosters 12/case.

[offramp]

MarcusAurelius,

I have to comment on your avatar. You gotta love the old-school war games like Caesar at Alesia. I actully have it sitting in my closet, though I haven't played it in years.

[Belisarius]

WotCBob has confirmed the set distribution: 24 rares, 16 uncommons, 24 commons.

Starters come with 1 rare, 2 uncommons and 6 commons. Boosters include 1 rare, 1 uncommon and 3 commons.

Does anyone else find it interesting that there are more rares than uncommons? One would think that there should be fewer rares because, well, they're rare and all.... ;)

[MarcusAurelius]

You gotta love the old-school war games like Caesar at Alesia. I actully have it sitting in my closet, though I haven't played it in years.

Agreed. The original Squad Leader was another personal favorite. I'm glad there are still companies out there continuing and building on the counter wargaming tradition — with great games like EastFront, Silent War, Lock 'N Load and others. I just don't have the time I used to for games like this.

[Y2UAsk]

I'm sitting here at work, having just finished lunch, which I spent opening up the polybags on a complete set of WAS minis generously given me by Bob. They're now arranged in little fleets all over my desk.

I'm no WW2 naval freak -- the last game I played involving ships with engines was SPI's Dreadnought, and I couldn't tell the Hood from the Bismarck if they were silhouetted on the horizon -- so I'm not remotely qualified to comment on their accuracy or authenticity. What I can say is that, as plastic war toys go, these are schweet!

Ya'll have something cool to look forward to, and I say that as a gamer goob, not just as an AH shill. I'd spend my own money on these.

Steve

[Stealth]

I'm sitting here at work, having just finished lunch, which I spent opening up the polybags on a complete set of WAS minis generously given me by Bob. They're now arranged in little fleets all over my desk.

I'm no WW2 naval freak -- the last game I played involving ships with engines was SPI's Dreadnought, and I couldn't tell the Hood from the Bismarck if they were silhouetted on the horizon -- so I'm not remotely qualified to comment on their accuracy or authenticity. What I can say is that, as plastic war toys go, these are schweet!

Ya'll have something cool to look forward to, and I say that as a gamer goob, not just as an AH shill. I'd spend my own money on these.

Steve

Pictures we say, WE NEED PICS!

[Modern Major-General]

Now with pictures.

However, I can only have four pics per post. So, I will be switching out images as new previews come in the following weeks.

[Der Leiter]

Still missing the unit set numbers and Flagship Bonus.

HMAS Canberra is #1

USS Enterprise is #25

USS Iowa is #27, flagship bonus is 2.
Bristling with Guns "This unit can make two Secondary Gunnery attacks against separate targets during your Surface Attack step."

Bismarck is #35, flagship bonus is 1.

[Zuxius]

I would just love to see the Hood pocket BB.

[Quel]

I would just love to see the Hood pocket BB.

The HMS Hood was actually a battlecruiser, one of the few around in WWII. She was also quite a huge ship, at 262 meters, she was longer than the Bismarck(241 meters).

[Modern Major-General]

Update with the list of minis.

[Diamondback]

YESSS! Even if Mac's (and my) preference didn't happen, at least one of the Brooklyns (and another of his command ships) made it.

BTW, I'm working up a list of stuff each mini can be used for, or that existing tooling can be leveraged to produce at less cost for future sets. I'll edit it into this post when done.

EDIT: OK, here's the "leveraged options" list. Guys @ AH/WotC, you gettin' this? ;)

AUSTRALIA
#1 HMAS Canberra Rare (Class: UK/Commonwealth County; 13 ships)
Can also represent: (A) Australia, Berwick, Cornwall, Cumberland, Devonshire, Dorsetshire, Kent, London, (/A '43) Shropshire, Suffolk, Sussex
#2 HMAS Sydney Uncommon (Class: UK/Commonwealth Perth)
Can also represent: (A) Hobart, (A) Perth

FRANCE
#3 Gloire Uncommon
Can also represent:
#4 Le Terrible Common
Can also represent:
#5 Richelieu Rare
Can also represent: Jean Bart (remove two turrets)

UK
#6 HMS Ajax Uncommon (UK/Commonwealth Leander)
Can also represent: (NZ) Achilles, (NZ) Leander, Neptune, Orion
#7 HMS Ark Royal Rare (one-of-a-kind)
#8 HMS Exeter Rare (Class: UK York)
Can also represent: HMS York
#9 HMS Hood Rare (one-of-a-kind)
#10 HMS Javelin Common (Class: UK/Commonwealth J & K; 16 ships)
Can also represent:
#11 HMS Rodney Rare (Class: UK Nelson)
Can also represent: HMS Nelson
#12 HMS Truculent Common (Class: UK T-class SS; )
Can also represent:
#13 Sea Hurricane Mk 1B Common
Can also represent:
#14 Swordfish Mk II Common
Can also represent: Swordfish Mk. I (proxy, re-stat)

USA
#15 F4F Wildcat Common
Can also represent:
#16 PBY Catalina Uncommon
Can also represent:
#17 PT Boat Common
#18 SBD Dauntless Common
Can also represent:
#19 SS Jeremiah O'Brien Uncommon
Can also represent: any Liberty ship
#20 TBD Devastator Common
Can also represent:
#21 USS Atlanta Uncommon (Class: US Atlanta)
Can also represent: Juneau, San Diego, San Juan (mod: Oakland) Oakland, Reno, Flint, Tucson (mod: Juneau) Juneau (2)*, Spokane*, Fresno*
#22 USS Baltimore Rare (Class: US Baltimore)
Can also represent: Boston, Canberra, Quincy, Pittsburgh, St. Paul, Columbus, Helena (2nd)
#23 USS Barb Common (Class: US Gato)
Can also represent: too many to list
#24 USS Boise Uncommon (Class: Us Brooklyn)
Can also represent: Brooklyn, Philadelphia, Savannah, Nashville, Phoenix, (with some mod) St. Louis/Helena
#25 USS Enterprise (CV 6) Rare (Class: US Yorktown; 2 + mod. Hornet)
Can also represent: Yorktown, Hornet
#26 USS Fletcher Common (US Fletcher)
Can also represent: too many to list
#27 USS Iowa (BB 61) (4+2)
Can also represent: New Jersey, Missouri, Wisconsin, Illinois*, Kentucky*
#28 USS Princeton Rare
Can also represent:
#29 USS Salt Lake City Rare (US Pensacola)
Can also represent: Pensacola
#30 USS Samuel B. Roberts Common (Class: US John C. Butler DE
Can also represent: any US Butler-class DE, stand-in as many others
#31 USS St. Lo Uncommon (Class: US Casablanca; 50)
Can also represent: too many to list
#32 USS Tennessee Rare
Can also represent: California
#33 USS Washington Rare (Class: US North Carolina)
Can also represent: USS North Carolina

GERMANY
#34 Admiral Graf Spee Rare
Can also represent: Admiral Scheer, Deutschland/Lutzow
#35 Bismarck
Can also represent: Tirpitz
#36 Fw 200 Kondor Uncommon
#37 Ju 87B Stuka Common
#38 Koln Uncommon
Can also represent: Leipzig, Nurnberg
#39 Nordmark Uncommon (Class: GE Dithmarschen; 5)
Can also represent: Dithmarschen,Uckermark, Franken, Ermland
#40 Scharnhorst Rare (Class: GE Scharnhorst; 2)
Can also represent: Gneisenau
#41 U 510 Common (Class: GE Type IXC)
Can also represent: U-505, any Type IXC
#42 Z 20 Karl Galster Common (Class: GE Type 1936; 6 built/+20 mod)
Can also represent: Z17 Diether von Roeder, Z18 Hans Ludemann, Z19 Hermann Kunne, Z21 Wilhelm Heidkamp, Z22 Anton Schmitt

ITALY
#43 Ambra Common (Class: IT Perla SS)
Can also represent: all 10 IT 600-Serie Perla subs
#44 Bolzano Rare (Class: IT Trento CA)
Can also represent: Trento, Trieste
#45 Emanuele Filberto Duca d'Aosta Uncommon (Class: IT Duca d'Aosta CL)
Can also represent: Eugenio di Savoia
#46 Luca Tarigo Common (Class: IT "Navigatori")
Can also represent: all 12 "Navigatori" DD's
#47 Motor Torpedo Boat Common
#48 Vittorio Veneto Rare (Class: IT Vittorio Veneto)
Can also represent: Littorio/Italia, Roma, Impero (never finished)

JAPAN
#49 A6M2 Zeke Common
#50 Akagi Rare (one-of-a-kind)
#51 B5N2 Kate Common
#52 D3A Val Common
#53 G4M Betty Uncommon
#54 I-19 Uncommon (JP Type B1 w/aircraft; 20)
Can also represent:
#55 Jintsu Uncommon (Class: JP Naka CL)
Can also represent: Naka, Sendai
#56 Kinai Maru Uncommon (Class: JP Kinai Maru AK)
Can also represent: Tokai Maru, Sanyo Maru, Hokuriku Maru, Nankai Maru, Hokkai Maru
#57 Kongo Rare (Class: JP Kongo)
Can also represent: Hiei, Kirishima, Haruna
#58 Myoko Rare
Can also represent: (if CA) Nachi, Haguro, Ashigara (none if CACV)
#59 Shoho Uncommon
Can also represent: Zuiho
#60 Shokaku Rare
Can also represent: Zuikaku
#61 Tone Rare (Class: JP Tone)
Can also represent: Chikuma
#62 Type 13 Subchaser Common
Can also represent: CH-13 to CH-27 inclusive
#63 Yamato Rare (Class: JP Yamato)
Can also represent: Musashi
#64 Yukikaze Common (Class: JP Kagero; 19)
Can also represent: any Kagero

*under construction but canceled w/end of war.

[Modern Major-General]

Update with HMAS Sydney stats. Ship and card is in the Feb combat Zone Kit.

Interesting to compare it to the Canberra. Pretty much identical ships. The Sydney does have less of a Main Gun attack for being one point less and an uncommon.

[Modern Major-General]

For my own interest, I am looking up the names of the units in the War At Sea set, to know what types of planes and ships they are representing from WWII. What follows is just a very brief summary of units for each country. Mainly, for my own notes, but maybe others that are not so informed about naval history will find this useful too. I must say WOTC/AH has done a good job of using ships with distinctive war records.

First up, the US Navy, which also has the most units.


#15 F4F Wildcat (c)
Carrier-based fighter.

#16 PBY Catalina (u)
Multi-role flying boat, equipped with depth charges, bombs, torpedos and machine-guns.

#17 PT Boat (c)
Motor torpedo boat.

#18 SBD Dauntless (c)
US Navy's dive bomber.

#19 SS Jeremiah O'Brien (u)
Liberty ship.

#20 TBD Devastator (c)
Torpedo bomber

#21 USS Atlanta (u)
Atlanta-class crusier, sunk in 1942.

#22 USS Baltimore (r)
Baltimore-class cruiser.

#23 USS Barb (c)
Gato-class submarine. Impressive record of ships sunk and even destroyed a train.

#24 USS Boise (u)
Brooklyn-class cruiser

#25 USS Enterprise (r)
Yorktown-class aircraft carrier, 90 planes.

#26 USS Fletcher (c)
Fletcher-class destroyer

#27 USS Iowa (r)
Iowa-class battleship, 45,000 tons, 16 inch guns.

#28 USS Princeton (r)
Independence-class light aircraft carrier, 45 planes. Sunk 1944.

#29 USS Salt Lake City (r)
Pensacola-class cruiser. May have taken part in more engagements than any other ship in the navy.

#30 USS Samuel B. Roberts (c)
Destroyer escort. "The Destroyer Escort that fought like a Battleship" Sunk 1944

#31 USS St. Lo (u)
Casablanca-class escort carrier, 28 planes. Sunk 1944.

#32 USS Tennessee (r)
Tennessee-class battleship, 33,000 tons, 14 guns. Struck by Japanese planes at Pearl Harbor on Dec 7, 1941 but was repaired and served for the remainder of the war.

#33 USS Washington (r)
North Carolina-class battleship, 35,000 tons, 16 inch guns. Sank the Japanese battleship Kirishima.



Well, I plan to do the IJN next.

[Modern Major-General]

And here is the IJN:

#49 A6M2 Zeke (c)
Carrier based fighter.

#50 Akagi (r)
Originally a battlecruiser but converted to an aircraft carrier, 91 planes. Destroyed at Midway, 1942.

#51 B5N2 Kate (c)
Torpedo bomber

#52 D3A Val (c)
Dive bomber

#53 G4M Betty (u)
Land based bomber

#54 I-19 (u)
B1 class submarine. Fired torpedos at USS Wasp, which was scuttled as a result. Sunk 1943

#55 Jintsu (u)
Sendai-class cruiser. Sunk 1943.

#56 Kinai Maru (u)
Kinai Maru-class transport

#57 Kongo (r)
Kongo-class battleship, 36,000 tons, 14 inch guns. First in world to have 14 inch gun. Sunk 1944.

#58 Myoko (r)
Myoko-class cruiser. Survived the war.

#59 Shoho (u)
Shoho-class aircraft carrier, 30 planes. Launched originally as a submarine tender. Sunk at Coral Sea, 1942.

#60 Shokaku (r)
Shokaku-class aircraft carrier, 80 planes. Sunk 1944.

#61 Tone (r)
Tone-class cruiser. Sunk 1945

#62 Type 13 Subchaser (c)

#63 Yamato (r)
Yamato-class battleship, 72,000 tons full, 18.1 inch guns. Sunk 1945.

#64 Yukikaze (c)
Kagero-class destroyer. Survived the war.


Tomorrow, we get another preview of stats.

[Raptor]

Checking out the Sydney's stats, it looks like she will be best used in an escorting role. At 1 pt less than the Canberra, it's firepower is almost the same versus other cruisers and auxiliaries, it has better AA, and has 1 pt better armor. So its a good choice to keep fast destroyers, and PT boats away from your carrier, and provides good supporting AA fire.

[Der Leiter]

Checking out the Sydney's stats, it looks like she will be best used in an escorting role. At 1 pt less than the Canberra, it's firepower is almost the same versus other cruisers and auxiliaries, it has better AA, and has 1 pt better armor. So its a good choice to keep fast destroyers, and PT boats away from your carrier, and provides good supporting AA fire.

Initially I preferred the HMAS Canberra - mostly due to the increased main gunnery - but quickly found that the lower AA and very low armour are very detrimental; it’s almost embarassing when it’s picked apart by destroyers, and battleships fire at it as an afterthought. Even fighters have a decent chance against it. It’s main gunnery is appealing because of the higher-than-standard numbers, but overall I find the HMAS Sydney to fill the same role and last longer.

[Modern Major-General]

Two previews today.

Total of 7 units known.

[Modern Major-General]

Update with a look at planes.

[Sean-Khan]

Initially I preferred the HMAS Canberra - mostly due to the increased main gunnery - but quickly found that the lower AA and very low armour are very detrimental; it’s almost embarassing when it’s picked apart by destroyers, and battleships fire at it as an afterthought. Even fighters have a decent chance against it. It’s main gunnery is appealing because of the higher-than-standard numbers, but overall I find the HMAS Sydney to fill the same role and last longer.

I believe that cruisers against battleship -build will work best in picking out enemy's escort, allowing subs & bombers to attack with much lesser resistance.

But, there's still so much to see in rules!

[Yankee_Dynasty]

Thanks for the list and pics!

[Modern Major-General]

Update with the Shokaku.

And we get hints to more of the rules. Its seems disrupted airplanes can be used on the very next turn if you have a carrier in your fleet. But if you do not have a carrier, and have to use a land-based airstrip, then your planes will have to skip a turn.

As for Basing Capacity, I will have to read the article again, as I did not see any hint as to what game effect it had. Maybe it lets only a certain number (as in 3) of disrupted airplanes to become ready for the next turn.

[Modern Major-General]

Re Basing Capacity

I am going to revise my guess for this ability as I have reread the article and the pertinent paragraph with the clues. It would seem a force without carriers would use a default land-based airfield and hence planes could be deployed every other turn. If you do include carriers in your force, then you may deploy every turn, a number of planes equal to the combined Basing Capacity of your carriers.

[Joisey]

It's not really realistic to have general rules that assume that land based airfields are ALWAYS in range of a naval battle. I should think that the opposite was the norm. Certainly it wasn't the norm for both sidesin a battle.

[Autarch]

I get the feeling land bases are going to be at player discretion. If you have land based aircraft, then you have a land base. If not, then you don't.

[XAos]

It's not really realistic to have general rules that assume that land based airfields are ALWAYS in range of a naval battle. I should think that the opposite was the norm. Certainly it wasn't the norm for both sidesin a battle.
I would have said the reverse. Navel battles only occured while the 2 sides had parity in the air. i.e. either they both had land based air or neither did. Once one side got airial dominance the battle ended. The Japanese gave up their assault on Midway after one days combat because thier carriers were sunk. Even though their main fleet with all the battleships had not been damaged. Conversly the surface Combat around Quadel Cannal went on for weeks, because neither had uncontested air superiority.

[Joisey]

I would have said the reverse. Navel battles only occured while the 2 sides had parity in the air. i.e. either they both had land based air or neither did. Once one side got airial dominance the battle ended. The Japanese gave up their assault on Midway after one days combat because thier carriers were sunk. Even though their main fleet with all the battleships had not been damaged. Conversly the surface Combat around Quadel Cannal went on for weeks, because neither had uncontested air superiority.

Disagree. Most of the American Island hopping campaign pitted U.S. carrier aircraft versus Japanese land based aircraft. In other words, it was one type of basing or the other, not both. Oh, and its Guadalcanal.;)

[dracos42]

I get the feeling land bases are going to be at player discretion. If you have land based aircraft, then you have a land base. If not, then you don't.

Another possibility is that land bases will be bought for points. The sea-going airbase, the carrier, costs points to put in your force, so I am guessing that land bases also have a cost. Of course, if both sides automatically get land bases, then any costs would cancel each other out, in effect.

[XAos]

Preview-5; {USS-Boise, IJNS-Myoko} is up.
Boise; looks designed to hunt destroyers. It has a main-gun battery that matches HMS.Canberra. And a 2ndry battery thats inferior to Canberras torpedoes (except possibly against very flimsy targets) But it's both cheaper & better armoured than Canberra. So we'll need to see the stats for a few destroyers to calculate which ship is more cost-effective against them.

Myoko; With long lance torpedoes & "Night Fighting". It's obviously designed to close & engage enemy surface ships. Conversly as an easy to sink Flagship (Flag-1, Hull-3, Vital armor-9) it wants to stay out of harms way. But it lacks adaquate AA-factor to be your carriers main escourt.
So it's two preferred tactics are mutually exclusive. Which suggests that for a 100 point fleet it will be too expensive in either roll. For large games (300+ points) it might be a cheap way to get an initiative advantage.

[Modern Major-General]

Update with two more cruisers.

Next week, it seems we will get the HMS Ajax and Admiral Graf Spee.

[Diamondback]

And now, I am going to officially complain about a miniature.

The mini for Boise is incorrect. Brooklyn-class cruisers had 5, count 'em 1-2-3-bridge-stacks-4-5, main gun turrets, with the eight open secondaries mounted 4 to each side alongside the stacks. This version of "Boise" appears to be a Cleveland, which, while built on a only-slightly-stretched hull, had one less main turret and the first superstructure deck extended over the site where "C" turret's mounting ring would be. Even then, it's not right, as it has the Brooklyn's open secondaries instead of the Cleveland's quad of dual-mount turrets.

I will concede the possibility, though, that since that lower deck extension is level with C-turret, that it's just a bad angle, or that C-turret wasn't installed on that particular mini yet.

For illustration (letters=main turrets, :=one pair open mounts, 8=one pair turrets, <=bow, [=] and [>=superstructure towers)

Brooklyn:
<=ABC[=]::::[>XY=)

Cleveland:
<=AB=[=]8=8[>XY=)

May we have a photo from a different angle, please? If it turns out that I'm wrong and what I think is an extension to 01 deck is, in fact, C-turret, I will gladly retract my commentary and publicly apologize.