Opening Salvo 8 is up!

[Kommandant]

look at title

[Darth Nazi]

Im liking what I see so far with both figures.

Plus it looks like planes might actually go back into my builds to blow up the ammo dumps!

[Krimsonstarr]

Ha, I was right! :D I said that the Ammo Dump would having something like Ammo to Spare (roll an extra die), which turns out to be a RE-ROLL (of any 1's you've rolled) on your attack dice, and that it could explode when attacked, and as it turns out it is FLAMMABLE!

[TheCygnysGuardian]

Heh, how about that. As for the partisan units: French Resistance Fighter & Werwolf Partisan. Thanks to Tiggerr for the names. ;)

[dictator_wanna_be]

Interesting... :cool:

[Krimsonstarr]

The Goliath sounds like it will be fun to use!

[Jay_Gatsby]

From what I see, the Goliath is described as having a "one-time punch", yet there is nowhere on the stat card that says the ability may only be used once.

[Cruizin2000]

Allow me to be the first to complain. I don't like these new units. You have to buy them from your 100 points, it counts as 1 of the 15 units, once placed they belong to noone, and they cannot move. What?!?! So, the way I'm reading this is that once they're placed noone owns them but YOU get the bonus??? It reads that BOTH players would get whatever bonus that the piece is offering since once placed it belongs to noone.

What's your take on this???

C2000

[WotC Bob]

bad wording on my part for the one time punch. My thinking was, once you do that once...your opponent will probably make it go boom.

Still working on some Market Garden maps, including a rather interesting urban one, so you guys get the preview. Plus, wanted to get the support unit info out to you before god knows who spoils it.

[Darth Nazi]

From what I see, the Goliath is described as having a "one-time punch", yet there is nowhere on the stat card that says the ability may only be used once.

I noticed that also. Another nice thing about it is you can load it onto a 250 and run it around dropping it off at various locations needed to blow stuff up!

For the ammo dump I was wondering about is all you do is attack it to roll the flammable dice? If that fails then do you attack it normally??

"Quick robin to the questions boards...."

[Cruizin2000]

Do the depot unit effects stack? I have a feeling that Steve is going to be experiencing the "Bombard" SA in the FAQ section. Poor Steve...

C2000

[Darth Nazi]

Allow me to be the first to complain. I don't like these new units. You have to buy them from your 100 points, it counts as 1 of the 15 units, once placed they belong to noone, and they cannot move. What?!?! So, the way I'm reading this is that once they're placed noone owns them but YOU get the bonus??? It reads that BOTH players would get whatever bonus that the piece is offering since once placed it belongs to noone.

What's your take on this???

C2000


Wait! I think you are reading into this a little too deep. Aren't they going to be placed just like obstacles? When you place them they are considered yours and your opponent can't take advantage of them?

And you need to read alittle lower in the article about the stacking limits....

[sputnik]

From what I see, the Goliath is described as having a "one-time punch", yet there is nowhere on the stat card that says the ability may only be used once.

Yes, the Goliath needs some explanation. From what I read his SA is instead of an attack. Because it can only attack adjacent units this means some kind of one time punch, because the goliath is likely to be destroyed by most units.

But it can wreak havoc on all units up to 7 fields away (if able to attack normally). Up to 12 is possible but not likely...

And as Jay mentioned - there is no "once per game" phrase on the card...

Steve?

regards
sputnik

[polish_horsy]

what is with the new units?

Elvis on the left with a guitar... a shifty criminal with hot pants on the right? Which units are these?

[Krimsonstarr]

From what I see, the Goliath is described as having a "one-time punch", yet there is nowhere on the stat card that says the ability may only be used once.

It seems that so long as the unit is alive it can keep making these attacks. But, you will have to make your dice roll that will allow you to make the attack which you may not get every time. You will also need to be fairly close (for a good chance of make the "detonation" roll), and undoubtedly will be under enemy fire while trying to do so.

[Bobsalt]

I just read Salvo 8.

Ammo Dump. Fuel Depot. Headquarters.

I'm absolutely speechless.

[Jay_Gatsby]

Yes, the Goliath needs some explanation. From what I read his SA is instead of an attack. Because it can only attack adjacent units this means some kind of one time punch, because the goliath is likely to be destroyed by most units.

But it can wreak havoc on all units up to 7 fields away (if able to attack normally). Up to 12 is possible but not likely...

And as Jay mentioned - there is no "once per game" phrase on the card...

Steve?

regards
sputnik

That brings up another question: Are both the dice combined or not? The way I read it, each die is compared to range seperately, making the range 1-6, with 6 having a small chance to actually work.

[polish_horsy]

Jay I think you have it right and Sputnik is wrong.

[Jay_Gatsby]

bad wording on my part for the one time punch. My thinking was, once you do that once...your opponent will probably make it go boom.



I had a feeling that this was what you meant. Thanks for clearing it up.

[TheCygnysGuardian]

What is with the new units? Elvis on the left with a guitar... a shifty criminal with hot pants on the right? Which units are these?

Elvis is a French Resistance Fighter and Mr. Hot Pants & Sunglasses is a German Werwolf Partisan.

[Cruizin2000]

Wait! I think you are reading into this a little too deep. Aren't they going to be placed just like obstacles? When you place them they are considered yours and your opponent can't take advantage of them?

And you need to read alittle lower in the article about the stacking limits....

Not piece stacking limits, ability stacking. Once you place Barbed Wire, Bunkers, Mines, and Tank Traps they belong to noone and effect everyone.

I don't want to pay 10% of my army build just so that my opponent and I get to re-roll 1's. We allow 1 "snivel" per game and it's free.

C2000

[Darth Nazi]

Elvis is a French Resistance Fighter and Mr. Hot Pants & Sunglasses is a German Werwolf Partisan.

So it looks (hopefully) like our Russian Partisan's will be getting company in their hexes trying to make attacks on the outer edges of the playing fields!

I meant "ability stacking"...I am partially correct and incorrect.

"If you have two Fuel Depots on the battle map, their abilities don’t stack."

It doesn't say anything else about the other two.

[Krimsonstarr]

That brings up another question: Are both the dice combined or not? The way I read it, each die is compared to range seperately, making the range 1-6, with 6 having a small chance to actually work.

I'm understanding it this way:

target is three hexes away, then you need to roll 4+ or higher on each die to make the attack

I can't honestly see this RC unit having an attack range of up to a possible 12 hexes

[sputnik]

That brings up another question: Are both the dice combined or not? The way I read it, each die is compared to range seperately, making the range 1-6, with 6 having a small chance to actually work.

Yes I think you are correct. I misinterpreded the text.
BOTH die rolls have to be GREATER than the range to the target, making attacks on ranges of 4+ VERY unlikely... (and on range 5 are limited to 1/36 if I calculate right - 6 is impossible, because you can´t roll anything greater than 6 with a d6 :o ).

This unit needs to be supported right...

regards
sputnil

[polish_horsy]

Aaaahh-wooooo! Werewolves in Berlin.

It's got a funky beat. Dig the shades and hot-pants. Sweet.

[WinterWarCaptain]

Do the depot unit effects stack? I have a feeling that Steve is going to be experiencing the "Bombard" SA in the FAQ section. Poor Steve...

C2000
I loved this!

[Krimsonstarr]

Allow me to be the first to complain. I don't like these new units. You have to buy them from your 100 points, it counts as 1 of the 15 units, once placed they belong to noone, and they cannot move. What?!?! So, the way I'm reading this is that once they're placed noone owns them but YOU get the bonus??? It reads that BOTH players would get whatever bonus that the piece is offering since once placed it belongs to noone.

What's your take on this???

C2000

Why would "Your" ammo depot benefit your enemy? :confused:
The ammo/fuel/hq units are "soldier" units..
It (the ammo dumo at least) even has a token attack value with which to defend itself with. :cool:

[shadowhooch]

As far as the Depot not being owned by either side, I think it just means that there isn't going to be a "German Depot" or a "US Depot" (like spotters).

So, when you deploy it, it only gives bonus to the side who deployed it.

If I'm wrong, then it's the stupidest piece in the world.

[DjChimp]

Defensive fire on the Goliath? It seems the Goliath would need to be in the same hex to use its SA. The lesser regular attacks look more like the operator's pistol attacks or some such attack.

If the support units are placed like obstacles, then they couldn't be transported I'm guessing?

[lozmoid]

So, from the look of the stat card it appears that this is not a 'one-time only' effect, and that you would not have to destroy this unit after it makes its Remote Control attack...And it looks like both of the seperate die rolls must be greater than the range to the target; not both rolls combined. Cool. Not a bad unit for 7 points.

[Darth Nazi]

Can they be put inside of Pillboxes?

Not that a fuel or Ammo dump was stored inside them but nowhere is it stating it can't happen?

Id want to put them inside the pillboxes and in hexes with cover making them next to impossible to destroy.

[shadowhooch]

Can they be put inside of Pillboxes?

Not that a fuel or Ammo dump was stored inside them but nowhere is it stating it can't happen?

Id want to put them inside the pillboxes and in hexes with cover making them next to impossible to destroy.

I don't see why not. But it still doesn't help the "when it's attacked" rule. It can be destroyed 33% of the time with no cover roll possible.

[Cruizin2000]

Why would "Your" ammo depot benefit your enemy? :confused:
The ammo/fuel/hq units are "soldier" units..
It (the ammo dumo at least) even has a token attack value with which to defend itself with. :cool:

Maybe since noone owns it, you can destroy the unit? But why would you do that if noone owned it? Strange...

C2000

[hellstorm]

it says instead of your attack you can roll d6's and if your resault is greater than your opponents distance then you go as follows 12 dice vs tanks and 8 dice vs infantry thats what i read anyways

[Krimsonstarr]

Maybe since noone owns it, you can destroy the unit? But why would you do that if noone owned it? Strange...

C2000

But "you" will own it if you purchase it as part of your army.
It is a "generic soldier unit" that any army can purchase and use for its own benefit :)

[Cruizin2000]

Defensive fire on the Goliath? It seems the Goliath would need to be in the same hex to use its SA. The lesser regular attacks look more like the operator's pistol attacks or some such attack.

If the support units are placed like obstacles, then they couldn't be transported I'm guessing?

No, they couldn't be transported since they are "dug in" like the SBMG42.

C2000

[shadowhooch]

Anyone see much use for the Fuel dump? Extra movement? Is it really worth it to spend points on it? Sounds like more armour playing the "merry go round" game at a faster pace.

Maybe if you could move while disrupted; THEN I'd use it in a heartbeat.
Or if you could spray fuel on those pesky 5/5 soldiers to prevent cover, they'd be worth it.

[polish_horsy]

"Support units usually give a bonus that applies to friendly units regardless of range or line of sight."

they have to be "owned". But what gives with the usually word in there?

[TheCygnysGuardian]

Aaaahh-wooooo! Werewolves in Berlin. It's got a funky beat. Dig the shades and hot-pants. Sweet.

And we've got some Thompson Gunners named Roland to accompany them.
:D

[Darth Nazi]

But "you" will own it if you purchase it as part of your army.
It is a "generic soldier unit." :)

Right you spent the points to place it on the board you are granted the benefits of it's ability.

[Cruizin2000]

But "you" will own it if you purchase it as part of your army.
It is a "generic soldier unit." :)

I don't know about this piece. Can you imagine if they hadn't changed the Hero limits? GENCON would become the Ultimate Cheese Fest with Heros and Support Units. They should've made the figs look alittle be different. One too many St. Pauli Girls and you'll really be fighting over ammo dumps. ;)

C2000

[dracos42]

I would say it is obvious that Support Units only benefit the units of the player that selects them. I would also assume that they are placed on the same side of the map as the rest of your units, so it will be easy to know which side a particular Support Unit belongs to.

As for their effects being ahistorical, just remove them from play if don't want to have their effects in your game. I can see them being used as objectives - like the Germans going for the fuel dumps in the Ardennes or paratroopers defending a supply drop. They also give the possibility of including supply lines into the game.

Mike L.

[polish_horsy]

I look at the figure and see this: the ammo is on the left and the dump is on the right.

[Darth Nazi]

These three units introduce Mechanics that are staples in all the other WoTC games.

Reroll initiative...Reroll 1's.... In almost every other Dice game that has been sold through WoTc these mechanics are incorporated. Now they have units that allow them to happen.

[Krimsonstarr]

I look at the figure and see this: the ammo is on the left and the dump is on the right.

lol NICE. I thought that to, but I wasn't going to comment on that. lol

[Xartloz]

Am I the only one who can see the GREAT scenarios now playable thanks to the new HQ, Ammo and fuel depots?

Dont use points on those units imho. Rather place them on map together with opponent in fair spots, the one who "capture" the depots or HQ gets the benefits at least for as long as they hold it. that or you can decide to just destroy it to make sure opponent doesnt get his dirty hands on it.

That makes 4 objectives in a 2 player game.

The winning objective
The Fuel depot objective
The Ammo depot
And the HQ

I am certainly gonna talk my friends into useing the new pieces like this!

[polish_horsy]

the ammo dump will have the effect to help a defender. this is needed. I don't know to what degree it will help but it certainly seems better for defensive positions.

[Darth Nazi]

Am I the only one who can see the GREAT scenarios now playable thanks to the new HQ, Ammo and fuel depots?

Dont use points on those units imho. Rather place them on map together with opponent in fair spots, the one who "capture" the depots or HQ gets the benefits at least for as long as they hold it. that or you can decide to just destroy it to make sure opponent doesnt get his dirty hands on it.

That makes 4 objectives in a 2 player game.

The winning objective
The Fuel depot objective
The Ammo depot
And the HQ

I am certainly gonna talk my friends into useing the new pieces like this!

Im thinking that Bob and the gents at AH have already developed this and are going to release them when the set comes out.

[Krimsonstarr]

I don't know about this piece. Can you imagine if they hadn't changed the Hero limits? GENCON would become the Ultimate Cheese Fest with Heros and Support Units. They should've made the figs look alittle be different. One too many St. Pauli Girls and you'll really be fighting over ammo dumps. ;)

C2000

Well, for the one the effects don't stack, and secondly if you spend all your points on support units you won't have much of an army with which to fight the war! I think that they will limit themselves in this way.

[shadowhooch]

Am I the only one who can see the GREAT scenarios now playable thanks to the new HQ, Ammo and fuel depots?

Dont use points on those units imho. Rather place them on map together with opponent in fair spots, the one who "capture" the depots or HQ gets the benefits at least for as long as they hold it. that or you can decide to just destroy it to make sure opponent doesnt get his dirty hands on it.

That makes 4 objectives in a 2 player game.

The winning objective
The Fuel depot objective
The Ammo depot
And the HQ

I am certainly gonna talk my friends into useing the new pieces like this!

Wow, that's a great idea!

[Krimsonstarr]

the ammo dump will have the effect to help a defender. this is needed. I don't know to what degree it will help but it certainly seems better for defensive positions.

But as an attacker (with an ammo dump) you will get to re-roll your 1's.
So what's the difference - attacker or defender :confused:

[polish_horsy]

I mean when you are in a defensive position you can stay near the ammo.

[Darth Nazi]

"Headquarters has the Organization ability, which allows you to reroll your initiative die. You get to see both initiative die rolls before you decide whether to reroll or not, and you must reroll before the movement phases begin."

I thought you rolled initative "Dice", Plural not one "Die"?

Pg 11 of rule book...

"At the beginning of each turn, each player makes an initiative roll to determine who is the first player...Roll two dice and add them together"

:confused:

[Krimsonstarr]

I mean when you are in a defensive position you can stay near the ammo.

Proximity doesn't matter though. As the attacker you park your support unit on your back line and push forward your advance. I think that it would be much more difficult to defend a support unit/position that is being assaulted.

I think that these are going to add a lot of FUN to the game :D
Can't wait to try them.

[shadowhooch]

"Headquarters has the Organization ability, which allows you to reroll your initiative die. You get to see both initiative die rolls before you decide whether to reroll or not, and you must reroll before the movement phases begin."

I thought you rolled initative "Dice", Plural not one "Die"?

Pg 11 of rule book...

"At the beginning of each turn, each player makes an initiative roll to determine who is the first player...Roll two dice and add them together"

:confused:

"Die" is a plural version of the word "Dice". Though both are frequently used i.e 2 Dice or 2 Die - same thing.

[polish_horsy]

Proximity doesn't matter though. As the attacker you park your support unit on your back line and push forward your advance. I think that it would be much more difficult to defend a support unit/position that is being assaulted.

I think that these are going to add a lot more FUN to the game :D
Can't wait to try them.


ooops. you are right. this has the opposite effect. good luck defending an assault/defend game now. holy crap. At first I thought you had to be adjacent. Now I see an attacker can park this in a safe spot and the defender is unlikly to have planes or fast movers.

[Colonel_Coo]

Well now I'll have to play with Airplanes!

Ammo dump and fuel dump are too valuable to not have.

If you conisder the re-roll function makes all attacks become N, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 on the attack where N=1 and therfore each 1 represents a 50% chance of success then each 6 dice now yield 3.5 successes instead of 3. That is a 16% improvement in all attack results.

For the Dual prop German aircraft, that gives you (8x3.5)/6 or 4.7 successes per attack. That is a fairly strong position to have.

Sample army: 100pts

Ammo Dump: 10
New GE aircraft: 15
SS H"furher: 7
20mm FlaK x 2: 14
Goliath: 7
SS PG x8 40
SS ST: x1

[Richter von Manthofen]

Do I read it right: Fuel depot: ...units with a base speed of three... Does that mean the Pz IV will benefit (Speed 3) and the Sherman won't (speed 4) ??? That would be silly...

The Goliath is a decent unit which I will certainly use often 7 points is bot that bad for the chance of 8/12 attack dice at mid range...

The Ammo depot I read as "friendly soldier" and "you" and not "any player" - its after all a soldier (but one without nation ;))

I have no problem with the thing in a 100 point game, but in larger games it will get a nuisance as it then will be still 10 points for your whole army. 1 dump gives the same bonus for different army sizes!

I would restrict the bonus to the map sheet the supply unit is in for larger games (or give it a reach - for example 8 Hexes).

Larger units (like the Tigers) will benefit more as they are more likely to take advantage) For example the Vet Tiger at long range: (12 dice (IIRC)) on average 8 sucesses initially + 2 1s to expect you gain anothe 1 1/3 sucesses out of the reroll - wow the same at mit range 15 dice 10 inital sucesses on average 2,5 1s 1,67 reroll sucesses almost kills a def 6 vehicle on average...)

[Colonel_Coo]

German Hero:


each 6 = 2 success
Each 1 = 4/6ths of a success (where if you had six 1's come up and then re-roll a perfect distriubtion of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 you would then received 4 success)
Therefore each 6 attack dice now represent 4.67 successes.

BTW, little guys like the 3 point Mauzer may make a sceduled comback. Previous choice to not include them was due to two things:
Lack of surviveability and lack of punch. At 3.5 success per 6 attack dice these guys become much more potent.

[Richter von Manthofen]

Thats what many demanded - make the lil'ones better :D

[shadowhooch]

Larger units (like the Tigers) will benefit more as they are more likely to take advantage) For example the Vet Tiger at long range: (12 dice (IIRC)) on average 8 sucesses initially + 2 1s to expect you gain anothe 1 1/3 sucesses out of the reroll - wow the same at mit range 15 dice 10 inital sucesses on average 2,5 1s 1,67 reroll sucesses almost kills a def 6 vehicle on average...)

Oh wow. Good point. I think the Tiger, Elite PZIV, and all snipers now have a new, must-have, friend. Combine the ammo dump with those units and you can only fail on a roll of a 2. That is assuming you don't reroll another "1" on your rerolls.

It's kinda expensive for the Tiger build.
But it could cause the Elite to become the best tank in the game.
And now Snipers can feast on those 5/5 infantry.

[Colonel_Coo]

Certain units such as the Brixia Mortar team and the Chinese MG team just got a lot better due to the reroll of the "1" which get's rid of the hated overheat and Jamming.

[shadowhooch]

Certain units such as the Brixia Mortar team and the Chinese MG team just got a lot better due to the reroll of the "1" which get's rid of the hated overheat and Jamming.

Hmmm...yeah, your probably right. But this might be a good question for Y2Ask. Does overheat occur on the first roll or the reroll?

[Krimsonstarr]

Hmmm...yeah, your probably right. But this might be a good question for Y2Ask. Does overheat occur on the first roll or the reroll?

I don't think that the intent of the new unit abilities was to "nullify" preivously exisiting SA's.

Or, to make exisiting SA's even more powerful then they already are, ie: a flamethrower

[Colonel_Coo]

Thats what many demanded - make the lil'ones better :D
Yep and If I can kill a 5 point SS with a 3 point unit on the same turn that my 3 point unit dies, I win!

For Germany, 7 points for Init Control (SS H'Furher) plus 10 for the fuel dump and 15 for the Do335 leaves 68 for 12 units. 2 Elite pzr IVs would leave abother 36 points for 10 units. Take out another 11 for Sniper and you still can add in 8 Mauzers.

That is pretty awesome.

Figure the 32 point Depot/SS Hfurher/Do335 to be a basic build and you can easily see your options for a 12 unit at 68 points army to build around it.

[DjChimp]

The reroll sure seems to lessen the veteran crew special abilities - Russian Gaurds tank and others? If the ammo dump is destroyed, they still can reroll a single "1".

[Richter von Manthofen]

You still rolled the three 1s - so the requirement for the negative SA is still fulfilled - my interpretation. You only may reroll them...

But the Guards SA got soon quite useless - as are rangers - anyone can now be a ranger and reroll 1s (ok once the depot is gone...)

[Darth Nazi]

The reroll sure seems to lessen the veteran crew special abilities - Russian Gaurds tank and others? If the ammo dump is destroyed, they still can reroll a single "1".

That might be a question to throw to steve. I would think that you use the Dump to reroll all those one's you initially threw and if you have one more 1 come up use the ability from the Guards Tank.

I think that would be possible.

[Colonel_Coo]

flame thrower:

each 1 now represents 1/6th of a "6". 13 dice x 1/6 (1's) x 1/6th of rerolls now nets an additional ..361 of a 6. So now you get 2.528 Sixes instead of 2.167.

So instead of having roughly a 1 in 6 chance of Flamethrowing INSTANT DEATH you now have rough 3 in 6 chance of instant death (you'll reroll 2 and 1/6 Ones on average)

[polish_horsy]

Flamethrower... ammo dump provides unlimited napalm?

[Richter von Manthofen]

Interesting question, but I think for game balances sake (and KISS) - I would think that all SA that require a certain munber of specific results (3 6s, 3 1s) should only count the initial die roll and leave the additional results out...

[Krimsonstarr]

Interesting question, but I think for game balances sake (and KISS) - I would think that all SA that require a certain munber of specific results (3 6s, 3 1s) should only count the initial die roll and leave the additional results out...

I concur! :) A flamethrower, for example, doesn't need to be more powerful then it already is!

[Colonel_Coo]

I concur! :) A flamethrower, for example, doesn't need to be more powerful then it already is!
I'll bet your both wrong on the game interpretation.

I bet the "final" result is the "official" result by which Head-Shot, Overheat, Jamming, Flamethrower, Guards and the rest all resolve off from.

[Krimsonstarr]

I'll bet your both wrong on the game interpretation.

I bet the "final" result is the "official" result by which Head-Shot, Overheat, Jamming, Flamethrower, Guards and the rest all resolve off from.

If we are wrong, roll out the SUPER-DUPER-CHEESE-A-RAMA.
I'll begin assembling my all German Sniper army right now. :D

[polish_horsy]

so a bonzai charging SS-PG supported with an ammo dump attacking a disrupted unit could only miss by rolling a 1 and then a 1. Since he already hits on 2-3-4-5-6 and now gets to re-roll 1's.

[spite48]

I'm worried about 5 Elite Panzer IVs and an ammo dump.

In terms of interpretation, I'm pretty sure that you don't get to re-reroll ones, but I wonder if the Elite Panzer IV counts the number on the dice, or the adjusted +1 result, in which case there would be no benefit from the ammo dump.

[Arontje]

bad wording on my part for the one time punch. My thinking was, once you do that once...your opponent will probably make it go boom.

Still working on some Market Garden maps, including a rather interesting urban one, so you guys get the preview. Plus, wanted to get the support unit info out to you before god knows who spoils it.


Thank you Bob, you are the greatest as always.

I like all of set 5 i have seen. It is great :)

[Arontje]

I'm worried about 5 Elite Panzer IVs and an ammo dump.

In terms of interpretation, I'm pretty sure that you don't get to re-reroll ones, but I wonder if the Elite Panzer IV counts the number on the dice, or the adjusted +1 result, in which case there would be no benefit from the ammo dump.


For rerolling purpose you look at the natural die roll, it is the same with chinese machinegun.

[Lettische_Scooterist]

It seem to me, that it will be vital to have aircraft in your army build now if your opponent fields a "depot" unit of some kind. The aircraft can attack it immediately (turn1) pretty much no matter how far behind the lines it's placed it and possibly elimnate it.

[Sheppard1972]

ooops. you are right. this has the opposite effect. good luck defending an assault/defend game now. holy crap. At first I thought you had to be adjacent. Now I see an attacker can park this in a safe spot and the defender is unlikly to have planes or fast movers.

What about beach assault games where does the attacker park these pieces? In a Higgins boat? (Maybe use for this piece again?) On the beach? New twist to beach assaults.

[Kommandant]

wow i posted this,
i go outside to be with my girlfriend, for about an hour
i come back, what do i see, 8 PAGES!!! :D

well i personally like the units, the Goliath is nothing great, i'll
probably will never use it, but will collect it

the support units, yay! the cheap 3 pointers might actually come back
and now the luftwaffe infantrymen are bit more useful against aircraft now

[Arontje]

It seem to me, that it will be vital to have aircraft in your army build now if your opponent fields a "depot" unit of some kind. The aircraft can attack it immediately (turn1) pretty much no matter how far behind the lines it's placed it and possibly elimnate it.

Yes indeed, they are soldiers, def 3 and flammable, that will make the german plane even better with his new ability to instant kill planes


Whole new strategies come again.

[Arontje]

I think the goliath is good and cool.

It certainly has its uses and it is fun to use.

[Lotus]

Interesting SAs. Units are not overpowered or difficult to knock off. Price seems right.

Rerolling 1s does not guarantee successful return on the investment. Nice edge still.

[mlund]

Wow, rerolling 1's may finally make the lowly 3-point Infantry cost-effective again - well, the ones with 6+ Medium Range attacks, anyway. The poor Arisaka Rifle is going to be miserable, though. It'll help out Mortars and Machine guns too - so maybe the Japanese MG Team will finally get to shine against those pesky Americans.

Cover will be more important, because income fire will score more successes - an average of 3.5 / 6 is such a huge margin over 3 / 6.

- Marty Lund

[Sean-Khan]

I meant "ability stacking"...I am partially correct and incorrect.

"If you have two Fuel Depots on the battle map, their abilities don’t stack."

It doesn't say anything else about the other two.

You mean the other two fuel depots? :p Sorry, couldn't resist...

Btw, I probably have missed something reading this thread fast half-asleep - why is everyone talking about units having auto-succeed on all attacks? Sure, 3+ and rerolls of 1 for several units give almost 5/6 change of success (in case that rerolls aren't rerolled), but better than that I don't get except with charging snipers...

I cast my vote for making only initial rolls count for ammo dump.

I really like these units! :) They are powerful but only with a gret risk... Put an ammo dump into bunker, AA gun next to it and pray that it doesn't explode when a plane comes after it!

[RBloom0566]

I just read Salvo 8.

Ammo Dump. Fuel Depot. Headquarters.

I'm absolutely speechless.


Why are you speechless?

[RBloom0566]

I had a feeling that this was what you meant. Thanks for clearing it up.

Actually, I wish it had a one-time punch attached to that SA.
I mean, once it detonates, there ain't a whole lot left to move on to the next target, eh?! At least not unless you count flying bits of shrapnel.

[RBloom0566]

Remote Control - Instead of attacking during your Assault Phase, choose an enemy soldier or vehicle and then roll two dice. If both die rolls are greater than the range to the target, roll 12 attack dice against that target if it's a Vehicle or 8 attack dice if it's a Soldier.

Clearly, roll two dice, but each DIE has to be greater than the range to target. This puppy ALWAYS detonates at Range 0 and NEVER detonates at Range 6+.

This sucker is obviously a "hide in the woods until the big freakin' tanks rolls by then slip out and nuke his hide" unit. *LOL* Oh, just had a wicked idea--Goliath ala Pillbox. Plop that bad boy down a hex back from the objective and just lay in wait for the first sucker on objective.

[RBloom0566]

Can they be put inside of Pillboxes?

Not that a fuel or Ammo dump was stored inside them but nowhere is it stating it can't happen?

Id want to put them inside the pillboxes and in hexes with cover making them next to impossible to destroy.

EXCELLENT POINT, Darth! Both are Soldier-types. Goliath is Artillery sub-type and Dump is Support sub-type. Pillbox only says that Vehicles may not enter, so...I'd say they could be.

[RBloom0566]

"Support units usually give a bonus that applies to friendly units regardless of range or line of sight."

they have to be "owned". But what gives with the usually word in there?

Perhaps a future support unit that may one day require line of sight or be range-limited?

[RBloom0566]

Well, for the one the effects don't stack, and secondly if you spend all your points on support units you won't have much of an army with which to fight the war! I think that they will limit themselves in this way.

Probably not going to make a big splash in the Tournament scene, but I say that's ok. These support units clearly have the over 100-pt players in mind.
They'll be extensively play-tested in my armies of all point builds. I'm likin' 'em.

[RBloom0566]

"Die" is a plural version of the word "Dice". Though both are frequently used i.e 2 Dice or 2 Die - same thing.

You only have that half wrong--the half about being backwards. *LOL*
Dice is the plural of die, my friend. One die, two or more dice. Unfortunately, the term die roll is used interchangably to mean the roll of one die or many dice, since dice roll sounds wonky. Somantics.

[RBloom0566]

I don't think that the intent of the new unit abilities was to "nullify" preivously exisiting SA's.

Or, to make exisiting SA's even more powerful then they already are, ie: a flamethrower

Power creep. Who loves ya baby?

[Arpathapius]

well the 1st dude could crush u with his hands

[RBloom0566]

If we are wrong, roll out the SUPER-DUPER-CHEESE-A-RAMA.
I'll begin assembling my all German Sniper army right now. :D

Plentiful Ammo - After each friendly Soldier or Vehicle attacks you may reroll any 1's from it's attack dice roll. (You may only reroll an attack die once with this ability.)

Ladies and Gentlemen, this unit's ability will NOT affect SA's because it is limited to affecting a unit's ATTACKS, not it's SA's!

[RBloom0566]

Our Aryan Supremecist (Werwulf Partisan) has gray hair. *LOL*
What happened to the blue-eyed, blonde-haired idyllic Hitler Youth?

<edit> His Ray-Bans must be hiding his brown eyes. *L*

[Krimsonstarr]

Probably not going to make a big splash in the Tournament scene, but I say that's ok. These support units clearly have the over 100-pt players in mind.
They'll be extensively play-tested in my armies of all point builds. I'm likin' 'em.

Yes, I think that they really have a lot of potential to add positively to the game in many, many ways. They seem pretty :cool: all around!

[Autarch]

Plentiful Ammo - After each friendly Soldier or Vehicle attacks you may reroll any 1's from it's attack dice roll. (You may only reroll an attack die once with this ability.)

Ladies and Gentlemen, this unit's ability will NOT affect SA's because it is limited to affecting a unit's ATTACKS, not it's SA's!

I think I read a clarification that stated SAs that require die rolls are considered attacks.

[Raptor]

Yes, the Goliath needs some explanation. From what I read his SA is instead of an attack. Because it can only attack adjacent units this means some kind of one time punch, because the goliath is likely to be destroyed by most units.

But it can wreak havoc on all units up to 7 fields away (if able to attack normally). Up to 12 is possible but not likely...

And as Jay mentioned - there is no "once per game" phrase on the card...

Steve?

regards
sputnik

I'm afraid you misread the SA both dies, not both dies added together, must be higher than the range to the target.

[Krimsonstarr]

Our Aryan Supremecist (Werwulf Partisan) has gray hair. *LOL*
What happened to the blue-eyed, blonde-haired idyllic Hitler Youth?

<edit> His Ray-Bans must be hiding his brown eyes. *L*

The Hitler Youth are laying dead on battlefields all across Europe and North Africa.

[RBloom0566]

I think I read a clarification that stated SAs that require die rolls are considered attacks.

Really? Who do I slap for not telling me about that one? *L*

[RBloom0566]

The Hitler Youth are laying dead on battlefields all across Europe and North Africa.

Hitler Youth League in particular, not the youth of Germany!
I'm talking about Hitler's propaganda children; the ones that groups like the Werwulf were to be drawn from. The "Chosen" people.

[Raptor]

Another fun combo for the ammo dump is with snipers. Hit on 3s with rerolls on 1s....... :eek:

[RBloom0566]

Another fun combo for the ammo dump is with snipers. Hit on 3s with rerolls on 1s....... :eek:

Only true miss is an initial 2 or snake eyes (two 1's) or a 1 followed by a 2. Wow!

[Krimsonstarr]

Hitler Youth League in particular, not the youth of Germany!
I'm talking about Hitler's propaganda children; the ones that groups like the Werwulf were to be drawn from. The "Chosen" people.

They're all dead to! :D

[Krimsonstarr]

Only true miss is an initial 2 or snake eyes (two 1's) or a 1 followed by a 2. Wow!

That's why I've begun to muster my all German Sniper Army! :)
Well, not really . . . I don't think that it would be much fun :(

I had a German Sniper do a nasty piece of work on my Russian Riflemen at the FallCon 19 tournament. One shot . . . one kill, every turn - plus it didn't help that I couldn't make a cover save roll to save my life (their life)! :D

[Raptor]

Plus, now the germans know where to put the sandbagged MG.

[spite48]

Only true miss is an initial 2 or snake eyes (two 1's) or a 1 followed by a 2. Wow!

Same goes with Elite Panzer IVD, only with a lot more dice. At medium range 7 dice against soldiers and 9 dice against vehicles. Each dice rerolls ones, and then is +1.

According to my quick calculations each dice from an Elite Panzer IVD or sniper with an ammo dump has a 75% chance of succeeding against soldiers and vehicles and a 50% chance of succeeding against aircraft.

(anyone want to check my math? I am somewhat clumsy with this sort of thing.)

That would mean an Elite Panzer IVD at medium range with an ammo dump would, on average, score 7 successes against a vehicle (6.75), 5 successes against a soldier (5.25) and 3 or 4 successes against an aircraft(3.5). More than enough to reliably rip up the opposition given that you can field 5 Elite Panzer IVDs and an ammo dump for 100 points.

Vulnerability of the Ammo dump is an issue, but an aircraft attacking the ammo dump is spending time not shooting at panzer IVDs, which is itself valuable for 10 points.

[RBloom0566]

Ammo Dump, Fuel Dump and HQ combo.
I have only 3 words for you...
Maximized Veteran Tiger!
Holy God!

<edit> How appropriate that this should be post 9-1-1!

[Colonel_Coo]

Plentiful Ammo - After each friendly Soldier or Vehicle attacks you may reroll any 1's from it's attack dice roll. (You may only reroll an attack die once with this ability.)

Ladies and Gentlemen, this unit's ability will NOT affect SA's because it is limited to affecting a unit's ATTACKS, not it's SA's!
Where do you come up with this?

Wrong.

These cards are that GOOD.

[Krimsonstarr]

Ammo Dump, Fuel Dump and HQ combo.
I have only 3 words for you...
Maximized Veteran Tiger!
Holy God!

<edit> How appropriate that this should be post 9-1-1!

lol - Good one! No doubt! A pimped-out Tiger tank ripping up the countryside is certainly reason enough to call for help!

[Krimsonstarr]

Plus, now the germans know where to put the sandbagged MG.

That will provide the support unit with AA coverage!

[Kommandant]

That will provide the support unit with AA coverage!

well the German's have a cheap AA unit, The Luftwaffe Infantrymen
which with the help of the ammo dump, it should be a bit better than before

[Colonel_Coo]

well the German's have a cheap AA unit, The Luftwaffe Infantrymen
which with the help of the ammo dump, it should be a bit better than before
Better yet:
For 15 points get the Do335 with BURST of SPEED and re-roll all 1's.

[Raptor]

Actually, I wish it had a one-time punch attached to that SA.
I mean, once it detonates, there ain't a whole lot left to move on to the next target, eh?! At least not unless you count flying bits of shrapnel.

Well, historically this would represent a engineer unit with 3 or 4 goliaths and a single control panel.

[Kommandant]

Well, historically this would represent a engineer unit with 3 or 4 goliaths and a single control panel.

same with the the infantry, each unit represents about 3-4 soldier

so why can't this represent 2-3 goliath's :p

[Raptor]

well the German's have a cheap AA unit, The Luftwaffe Infantrymen
which with the help of the ammo dump, it should be a bit better than before

An 88 flak 36 would make a good choice too, since its fairly immobile. 7 dice with anti-air and re-rolling 1s means they'll probably loss whatever aircraft they send in.

[NorthernRommel]

I just read Salvo 8.

Ammo Dump. Fuel Depot. Headquarters.

I'm absolutely speechless.

"Repent yee of historical favor - The End (and Set V) is Near" :o

...sorry just practicing :cool:

And all this time the pessimists said Elvis was not gonna return too lol

[RBloom0566]

Well, historically this would represent a engineer unit with 3 or 4 goliaths and a single control panel.

Well, since you put it that way....ok. I'll buy that explaination.

[Modern Major-General]

These units just are not worth it.

The Ammo Dump is 10 points and the other two (Fuel and HQ) I guess will be similarly costed. But that is not the big problem. The Ammo Dump is Defense 3 with Dug In and Flammable. No doubt, the Fuel Dump and HQ will be Defense 3 with Dug In and an additional negative SA.

Plus, Germany is getting Paratroopers and Partisans. Now, everyone can put troops in the back of their opponents deployment zone. There is no good place to put a Support unit.

[NorthernRommel]

Well consider too that the presence of these units may only serve to create a form of arms race within the game, since each side will seek to have the pieces to balance out that the other side has the same pieces.

So if both sides have a HQ for example.......Player A rolls crappy and decides to reroll. Player B not liking the outcome of that also decides to reroll. So wheres the equalizer in this?

Who benefits from the Fuel dump since most Allied units already move 4 or 5. The Germans buy it to make their tanks on par, but what does this solve? Nothing.

Who benefits most from the Fuel and Ammo dump.....Germans. Who will just not buy one of the cool new aircraft to take out the Ammo/Fuel each game? Allies. This will make things a little predictable.

Perhaps this is WOTCs twisted plan to make Aircraft more in demand and more important in play. But in a 100 point game??

Leaving the units as objectives would seem to make more sense. Figuring out what to do with all of the extra minis will be interesting.

[Raptor]

These units just are not worth it.

The Ammo Dump is 10 points and the other two (Fuel and HQ) I guess will be similarly costed. But that is not the big problem. The Ammo Dump is Defense 3 with Dug In and Flammable. No doubt, the Fuel Dump and HQ will be Defense 3 with Dug In and an additional negative SA.

Plus, Germany is getting Paratroopers and Partisans. Now, everyone can put troops in the back of their opponents deployment zone. There is no good place to put a Support unit.

Perhaps, but if you lose a 14 point plane or 10 pt paratrooper getting it, I'm still ahead or even in points, I forced you to react to my strategy rather than supporting yours, and probably pulled your units out of position to take objectives. plus even if killed on the first turn, its benefits on that turn could make the difference between victory or defeat.

[horacus]

I thinks that the Dump's won't work very well, for casual or large games they are OK, but, spending 10 points in something that won't help me that great, I prefer the Grizzled veteran or two SSPG for the cost.

[whitewind]

Does anyone else feel that these would be better played as just objective markers? Just eye candy.

[mattertoenergy]

I don't want to whine or anything, but I don't like the support units, or this set overall. The thing that bothers me is some of ahistorical features of these units. I mean, how can an ammo dump give an aircraft extra ammo, or give a tank on the other side of the map extra ammo.

Overall, I'm dissapointed in this set. I feel that there's too many useless units. I'd have rather seen a Smevonte 75/18 than an Italian Hero. :(

Don't worry that I'll be posting many complaints on this board though. I plan on voting with my wallet. I'll just buy the singles that I want, fortunately most of them are common/ uncommon.

[Predator666]

I think the support units are pretty cool. The fuel depot will help most german and smaller nation armies. Ones that need more fillers and what not. The Goliath will probably not survive long. Just imagine though, an hq or something, in a bunker. They will be able to survive more that way. I'm glad with the way they are introduced. Not to strong but not to weak. They still cost a good amount of pts before equiping them. They are also weak against planes. Extremely weak. A suicidal plane can make quick work of one.

[J.L.Robert]

The thought that opposing supply stations can be located within 1.5 km apart from one another, across enemy lines, seems a bit absurd.

Historical does not equal realism. Historically, these units did exist. But, this game continues down the path of unrealistic game situations and army builds.

The support units will be useful for scenario building. For a defending player, their effects can portray elite or guard units protecting the support position.

And finally, back to the Guards T-34/85 + Ammo Dump...what's stopping a player from using Plentiful Ammo to re-roll the 1's, then using the Guards Tank SA to re-roll any single remaining 1?

[Richter von Manthofen]

Ammo DEpots will not overly benefit from cover and bunkers as the highly flammayble SA (roll a die on a 5 -6 destroyed immediately, so if the player 1 goes first player 2 won't benefit from his armor dump)

[boersma8]

From what I see, the Goliath is described as having a "one-time punch", yet there is nowhere on the stat card that says the ability may only be used once.

My sentiments exactly! We'd better ask Steve for clarification!

[boersma8]

bad wording on my part for the one time punch. My thinking was, once you do that once...your opponent will probably make it go boom.

Still working on some Market Garden maps, including a rather interesting urban one, so you guys get the preview. Plus, wanted to get the support unit info out to you before god knows who spoils it.

I'd prefer to take it out BEFORE it even uses its SA once! ;)

If you don't want anyone to " spoil" anything else, Would you be so kind as to post the set's gallery ( better pics) along with all the statcards? Oh yeah, before I forget, could we also have the release date for set VI along with its units and statcards?

Very much obliged............ :D

[boersma8]

what is with the new units?

Elvis on the left with a guitar... a shifty criminal with hot pants on the right? Which units are these?

LOL ( and I mean it!) This is the very first time a post actually made me laugh out loud! Well, they're not that bad, but I understand where you're coming from! HAha!

[boersma8]

I just read Salvo 8.

Ammo Dump. Fuel Depot. Headquarters.

I'm absolutely speechless.

I guess the guys at WoTC thought: Let's mess up as much as possible and then the HHR committee can fix things so we'll issue errata later! If we stay to close to reality, they might just leave things the way they are!

[boersma8]

I'm understanding it this way:

target is three hexes away, then you need to roll 4+ or higher on each die to make the attack

I can't honestly see this RC unit having an attack range of up to a possible 12 hexes

That's how I read it too and frankly I'd be very surprsied if it turned out to be different, because this is exactly what the card says, it seems to me.........

[boersma8]

As far as the Depot not being owned by either side, I think it just means that there isn't going to be a "German Depot" or a "US Depot" (like spotters).

So, when you deploy it, it only gives bonus to the side who deployed it.

If I'm wrong, then it's the stupidest piece in the world.

Well, they sure do look most like Germans to me,those guys standing around the table.....I guess it's more or less like the memoir 44 cards, where you can use all cards for both sides..........( German soldiers on a card making an allied close assault or sth...). It's a shame in a way. It would've been nicer to have had nation specific headquarters, fuel and ammo dumps.......

[boersma8]

.

BTW, little guys like the 3 point Mauzer may make a sceduled comback. Previous choice to not include them was due to two things:
Lack of surviveability and lack of punch. At 3.5 success per 6 attack dice these guys become much more potent.

Unless I'm misunderstanding this: Doesn't the bonus apply to SS panzergrenadiers (e.g.) alike????
I would say yes. So no reason to include a mauser in your (competitive) 100 point army........

[Kommandant]

It would've been nicer to have had nation specific headquarters, fuel and ammo dumps.......

actually i think this was a better way of doing this

why? because then people would be complaining that the allies got
a better one, and it would most likely be the US, and other similar complaints

although i would agree with you there though, it would have been nicer

but then again they would be taking a lot of slots in the set, and we would
have less stuff :D

[boersma8]

Goliath: :)

Ammo dump: should've functioned in a dual way: giving a bonus to the owner and an incentive for the opposing player to capture it. SA is the " least" silly one ( rerolling ones) OK, there's plentiful ammo, but does that make you shoot more accurately or increase the gun's rate of fire? It'd 've been better to give an extra attack to certain units. Well, like I said it's the least silly one.......

HQ: No way in the world I'll spend so many points on rerolling iniative! Both going first and second have their own benefits, depending on many game situations. You usually have a fairly good chance of winning it at least a couple of times during the game, and at most once or twice when it's really crucial for the outcome of the game when you go first or second. Useless piece IMO and very unhistorical..........( AND very easy to take out! like all the other supply units!; paras, partisans, planes........)

Fuel dump: So a very restricted class of vehicles ( with movement 3 or POSSIBLY 3 or LESS or 3 or MORE) get increased speed because they have enough fuel........Hmmm, so that actually makes them go FASTER???? I don't think so! How about: Fuel to burn: As long as your in control of a fuel dump one friendly vehicle per assault phase can move at speed one before attacking. It may not be perfect either, but it seems better to me than the " official" rule....( Of course it should be ALL friendly vehicles, but that'd make the SA too powerful!)

[boersma8]

Another thing I'm starting to dislike more and more is that the game is getting ( UNNECESARRILY) overcomplex with all these different units and SA's! How do they interact? Didn't I overlook sth? Was I allowed to attack at all? Should I have attacked, because I was able to? Did I reroll my ones? Should it be face-up or face-down? =1 for this,minus 1 for that then again =1 for this, rollmy attack dice, oh yeah I can reroll the ones, Oh, it seems I'm overheeted now ( or did that only apply to the initial attack??; let's look it up AGAIN!)and five minutes later that one single attack has been resolved. That's nOT hwat this game set out to be! If at least it actually made the game better all the time, but the SA's are so often so cheesy that it actually makes the game a whole lot worse.......etc. etc.

[Sean-Khan]

So, to protect a supply unit, you would have to have 1 AA unit and few riflemen to control nearby hexes. Costs are increasing. Well, Luftwaffe infantrymen really could do it, taking care of both problems at the same time, at least to some extent.

I'm disappointed if fuel dump is also 10 points - speed isn't that important. 7 would be good cost I think.

[Remember-OWS-]

Goliath: :)

...

Fuel dump: So a very restricted class of vehicles ( with movement 3 or POSSIBLY 3 or LESS or 3 or MORE) get increased speed because they have enough fuel........Hmmm, so that actually makes them go FASTER???? I don't think so! How about: Fuel to burn: As long as your in control of a fuel dump one friendly vehicle per assault phase can move at speed one before attacking. It may not be perfect either, but it seems better to me than the " official" rule....( Of course it should be ALL friendly vehicles, but that'd make the SA too powerful!)

The way AAM was presented was that the game is in a time frame of 7 to 10 minutes. The German were more and more concern, as the war going, about fuel consumption and radius of action. As I see it, or trying to see it, from the R&D way of WOTC, is that the Fuel Dump lets you go further into action because now your full depot is in range and you can make your full action movement to a good radius of action.

That is not necessarily the best to see it, but too me it is the best new Non-specific card of SET V. The Ammo Dump and Headquarters are of lesser us to me than Fuel Dump. Now my limited move German built have a better chance of going head to head against Sherman and Stuart.

[Raptor]

So, to protect a supply unit, you would have to have 1 AA unit and few riflemen to control nearby hexes. Costs are increasing. Well, Luftwaffe infantrymen really could do it, taking care of both problems at the same time, at least to some extent.

I'm disappointed if fuel dump is also 10 points - speed isn't that important. 7 would be good cost I think.

Well if you cover it with an 88 Flak 36 or a Bofors 40mm, these both have extended range and can still contribute a lot to the battle and are fairly immobile anyway. Most of the other units you'd cover it with are similar (sandbagged MG, snipers, etc).

[Autarch]

Bofors has Enhanced Range, which is superior to the 88's Extended Range. But both units are rather specialized against one or another target type. You would still need additional units to cover the other area.

[Kommandant]

So, to protect a supply unit, you would have to have 1 AA unit and few riflemen to control nearby hexes. Costs are increasing. Well, Luftwaffe infantrymen really could do it, taking care of both problems at the same time, at least to some extent.

I'm disappointed if fuel dump is also 10 points - speed isn't that important. 7 would be good cost I think.

it would be better if it costs like 5 points :D

the only nations that will really use them are:
Germany-->most of their tank are speed 3, Elite, PzIV G, KT, Tiger, and so on
France
Japan-->making the Ho-Ni speed 4 :eek: pretty good huh, but still easy to kill
Romania
Poland
Italy

[Krimsonstarr]

it would be better if it costs like 5 points :D


How about if it was free? Would that be cheap enough for you? :D
You could just say that each side could use one without including it as part of their army point value.

[Kommandant]

How about if it was free? Would that be cheap enough for you? :D
You could just say that each side could use one without including it as part of their army point value.

FREE! yes that would be cheap enough for me :p

[Richter von Manthofen]

Bnus points :)

If the fuel depot is 10 points, it is really too expensive compared to the ammo dump. The latter adds to all units while the fule dump helps only (some) vehicles. 3-6 points I assume...

[RBloom0566]

As any other unit, this unit will see it's usefulness in facing an opponent unprepared to deal with it. That's the beauty of the whole constructed army design. Will he bring a Vet Tiger? Will he bring a Fuel Depot? Will he bring Air?

A good General tries to account for everything with a balanced build. A dead General doesn't.

[dracos42]

We don't know what additional rules may go with these new support units. Might they have a maximun range of effect? In which case an attacker could outrun his supply dumps. Then again, maybe not, for the standard game. For games with larger maps though, supply ranges could be an interesting effect.

[RBloom0566]

We don't know what additional rules may go with these new support units. Might they have a maximun range of effect? In which case an attacker could outrun his supply dumps. Then again, maybe not, for the standard game. For games with larger maps though, supply ranges could be an interesting effect.

Ooooh, I do like that. Granted it's more strategic than tactical, but so are the dumps & hq in the first place. Very coolf if they only exert a zone of influence, say, out to long range (8 hexes).

[polish_horsy]

range 8? That is such a hard thing to consider. In reality it should be range 80 or more. These guys aren't fillin' up every 2 minutes.

[tragicmishap]

I think I read a clarification that stated SAs that require die rolls are considered attacks.

I don't know how they would justify this with the Bombardment ability being able to attack transported units, which can't be attacked with the whole "Can't" trumps "can" thing.

[tragicmishap]

These units just are not worth it.

Finally someone's talking sense. The only units from what we've seen so far of set V that will significantly influence competitive play are the Ranger and possibly the Su-152.

[Autarch]

I don't know how they would justify this with the Bombardment ability being able to attack transported units, which can't be attacked with the whole "Can't" trumps "can" thing.

It was in answer to something else, something like do units get cover rolls vs
SAs or something like that.

We really need a set of annotated rules. The volume of official clarifications and errata in various threads makes it difficult to keep abreast of, or refer others to, when issues arise while on the discussion board or on the battlefield.

[tragicmishap]

I agree, but I think I found what you were referring to here (http://boards.avalonhill.com/showpost.php?p=142818&postcount=2).

This only affects SAs that say "instead of attacking". There aren't many of those. Utilizing my new AAM Guidebook (http://www.aamguidebook.com), the only SAs that include this wording are:

Headshot
Rockets 8

[RBloom0566]

range 8? That is such a hard thing to consider. In reality it should be range 80 or more. These guys aren't fillin' up every 2 minutes.

Agreed, but we are talking tactical here. Think "supply truck in the compound" not "Ploesti Oil Fields, 1000m."

[Autarch]

Kurt's book is proving it's value! I wonder if he would be up for doing an annotated set of rules? I doubt WotC would let him due to copyright. Then again, I'm actually surprised they let him do the reference book.

Robert: I think your right, on this scale depot units are merely supply points, at least for ammo. Not vast dumps. Either a single truck or a prepositioned cache. From that point, handlers would run the ammo up to the fighting men. I figure a mile would be reasonable so basically 1 ammo dump would service the entire map. Maybe half the map for weapons with high rates of fire (MGs, mortars). Honestly, I think the bonus should only apply to soldiers since reloading vehicles would take longer than an actual A&AM battle.

[kurtgish]

Kurt's book is proving it's value! I wonder if he would be up for doing an annotated set of rules? I doubt WotC would let him due to copyright. Then again, I'm actually surprised they let him do the reference book.


They did grant me permission previously for using their copyrighted and trademarked material, so hopefully they will do so again. I, too, was a little surprised to receive permission from WotC for the current guidebook (sets 1-4), but I'm guessing that they perceived the book of having some small chance of increasing/maintaining interest in the game, which can only be good for them. Considering that I've sold 9 books so far, I'm sure their miniatures sales must be skyrocketing! :)

As for an annotated set of rules, sounds great to me! this all is getting a little complicated. If I receive permission from WotC, I will gladly stick them into my next edition (covering sets 1-5). I may need some help on this, and would love to hear from any volunteers. Tell me your wishlist for things to stick into the book, and we'll see if it'll fly.

[tragicmishap]

I volunteer! I suppose you already know that though.

[Sean-Khan]

As any other unit, this unit will see it's usefulness in facing an opponent unprepared to deal with it. That's the beauty of the whole constructed army design. Will he bring a Vet Tiger? Will he bring a Fuel Depot? Will he bring Air?

A good General tries to account for everything with a balanced build. A dead General doesn't.
If you're not prepared to take it out, better to forget it and concentrate on enemy force with 10 less points. Even it it's more efficient it dies just as easily as normally. But if you have anything that has a chance of threating the support piece, opponent is forced to protect it, tying even more points to it. In that, the armoured car would be perfect - if it can stay hidden and attack other units but has a chance of moving to eliminate the dump, you've got the edge.

[kurtgish]

I volunteer! I suppose you already know that though.

I was hoping you would. :)