How to take out an Axis ammo dump?

[boersma8]

This seems all too easy. Put a plane or a paratrooper within line of sight and have the 81 mm mortar pounder away at it. It may not even be necesarry, since a mere attack is already enough to trigger the "self-destruct" flammable SA when you throw a 5 or six, so the plane itself or the paratrooper might be able to finish the job too.....Anyway, with the mortar ( even if the ammo or fuel dump ( supposedly it'll also have flammable) survive "flammable" will certainly finish it off....Goodbye ammo dump! 1 para+ 1 81 mm mortar = 21 points if I'm not mistaken.......Even if it turns out that your opponent does NOT have an ammo or fuel dump in play, those points will probably still be well-spent!

Conclusion: They're MUCH too fragile!

Cover: Only works against ACTUAL carried out attacks. Does not prevent self destruction by rolling the die for "flammable" SA

[boersma8]

I hope the German fallschirmjaeger will have the spotter ability too for the German mortar. That'll even the playing field again, although I doubt if this would be very historical, but gamewise I'd welcome it! How else will the Germans take out an ALLIED fuel and/or ammo dump?

[Arontje]

Get a chinese unit to shoot at it. Dont hit it, it probably blow up of itself.

By the way you can make armies for all nations now with the support units!

Ammo dump
Fuel dump
HQ

Chinese rifleman and machinegun :D

[XAos]

This seems all too easy. Put a plane or a paratrooper within line of sight and have the 81 mm mortar pounder away at it. ...

Conclusion: They're MUCH too fragile!

Cover: Only works against ACTUAL carried out attacks. Does not prevent self destruction by rolling the die for "flammable" SA

You may be correct, I hope not. Possibly there are tactics to pretect the ammo dump.
e.g. a Do335 near the ammo dump.
Since it benefits from the ammo-supply. (oops, checked the ammo dump card, and planes don't benefit) So it would need 2 or 3 Do-335's to kill an enemy plane before the mortar can shoot.... :(
The paratroopers are more worrying, you'd need a ring of cheap infantry to deny the paratrooper a drop-zone (can't be placed adjascent to the enemy, remember)
The bottem line could be that you play a couple of ammo dumps, & try to make it too expensive for your oponent to kill them both.

But I think we need to see all the units in set-5 before we can tell if ammo dumps are useless. There are a lot of partisan type units in the set & they might affect the question. Also the two Jets should be the best aircraft in the game, so should affect the result.

Certainly if A/H are going to errata anything about the ammo dumps, it should be to make them harder to attack (e.g. Improved camoflage)

[Arontje]

When I play games I most of the time agree that we play without planes :D

[Remember-OWS-]

I hope the German fallschirmjaeger will have the spotter ability too for the German mortar. That'll even the playing field again, although I doubt if this would be very historical, but gamewise I'd welcome it! How else will the Germans take out an ALLIED fuel and/or ammo dump?

The Fallschirmjäger did'nt use any radio communication compare to the US.

So why AH would have change one of the biggest advantage the US got so far...

[Twentecable]

One thing:
why bother shooting with the mortar when your para can take a shot on that dump??

Second: I really hope they come with an errata on the US Mortar that only spotters(aility) can work for indirect fire.
I think in this game the indirect fire ability for the US mortar is a big flaw. It is much to decisive

[spite48]

Conclusion: They're MUCH too fragile!


Are they?

I only need them for one or two turns for my blitz. Then, if you've expended 10 or more points trying to take it out, well it has been well spent.

[XAos]

For one or 2 turns, your opponent can probably hide from a "blitz".
Depends on the map of course, But Sherman Rhinos can hide nearly anywhere. And a blitz that losses effectiveness after 2 turns has to take all sorts of tactical risks.

Interesting thought about the title of this thread, notice the inherent assumption that it's the Axis that need to protect an ammo dump. It's quite a comment on the existing game balence, that no one has even questioned the assumption that the allies don't need one. :rolleyes:

[boersma8]

I think the ALLIES could make use of an ammo and/or fuel dump very well too, but I think it will be slightly more difficult for the axis to take it out since they don't have IMPROVED indirect fire. That's a sure kill against a 3/3 unit. I suppose a fallschirmjaeger or a plane might still fail to destroy said units out right....Subsequently they themselves might be eliminated from play.........

[CaptainHans]

SNLF Paratroopers would be sufficient in any axis build to destroy a ammo dump. And at 5 points a piece that makes these guys awesome!

[spite48]

I don't intend to protect the ammo dump at all. If you drop a 9 point paratrooper to deal with my 10 point ammo dump, that paratrooper is going to be largely irrelevant to the rest of the engagement.

[Cruizin2000]

I don't intend to protect the ammo dump at all. If you drop a 9 point paratrooper to deal with my 10 point ammo dump, that paratrooper is going to be largely irrelevant to the rest of the engagement.


But doesn't that cost you 10% of your build to do that? Is it really worth doing? The para will have 4 turns of nothing but movement to get back to the center of the map. I'm not sure about your strategy, spite48. Then again, play a European scenario and you won't have to worry about the Japanese. ;)

C2000

[cannonfodder]

You definitely can't count on this thing lasting more than 1 or two turns. If you can do enough damage in that time then it's worth having. If not then it's not worth having. All that's left to do now is to decide whether the rest of your build will benefit from such limited advantage.
I just made that sound easy didn't I. It ain't that easy, unless you're playing an all tank army in which case drop a Brummbar near your dump and go for it.
Hmmmm. 4 Brummbars, an ammo dump, and 4 bits of barbed wire. All infantry armies beware.

[polish_horsy]

how 'bout...

ammo = 10
US Mortar x5 = 60
Corsair = 20
Ranger x2 = 10

OR

ammo = 10
US Mortar x6 = 72
Jeep x2 = 8
Ranger x2 = 10

All infantry armies REALLY beware.

[Predator666]

The germans did use radios on paras if they were close enough to the front lines for artillery to fire. It was in the latter part of the war that the Germans suffered from no radios.

I read a book on The Battle of the Bulge. The leader of the paratroopers asked for carrier pigeons or something like that, incase their radios didn't work, so they could call in arty. But they (I believe Sepp Dietrich) said some witty remark and they weren't allowed their messangers of doom. Well most of the paras, ammo and all radios were destroyed or missing during the night drop and behold, hundreds of soldiers were seen on roads, by the paras, going to and from the offensive area. If they woulda had their birds, the battle mighta lasted longer with more allied casualties.

I don't know what I'm trying to get at. I just rly rly rly wish that the Germans Para has the spotter ability, at least like the Ranger.

[tragicmishap]

Is this some kind of joke? I think I've heard it before. The punchline is "anyway you want."

[Dr.Cornelius]

BAR/Bren covering fire will shut down enemy paratroopers/partisans, at least as long as the Allies win initiative...

[Sean-Khan]

I don't think you'll have to destroy the dump. Just be able to threaten it so opponent must deploy forces to protect it, giving you advantage of numbers in the main battle. Depend on cover and firepower rather than defence.

[boersma8]

Is this some kind of joke? I think I've heard it before. The punchline is "anyway you want."

That's exactly my point: They're extremely easy to take out and therefore a very liable pick in your 100 point army.

[HerrPanzer]

If you offer them roses and ask them to a nice resturant and a movie you can take out an ammo dump be it axis or allyhttp://boards.avalonhill.com/newreply.php#
Stick Out Tongue