Question regarding the subs first strike

[snake67]

In the new rules both sides get first strike with subs. Couldn't you in essence negate the enemies first strike buy using your subs as casaulties?

[Gorak]

all subs roll in the opening fire round, without the presence of destroyers, so if the defender took a sub as a casualty, yes, it would still fire back.

[holywolfman]

Originally posted by Gorak:
all subs roll in the opening fire round, without the presence of destroyers, so if the defender took a sub as a casualty, yes, it would still fire back.I just want to add- Mike has proclaimed this many times as well:

Subs ALWAYS fire in 'Open Fire' phase!

*It doesn't matter if destroyers are present...
*Doesn't matter if it is on Friday or on Sunday...
*Doesn't matter if you have a college degree or not...
*Doesn't matter if you bought your game online or at a 'Hobby Store'...
*Doesn't matter if it is the beginning of the month or the last days...
*Doesn't matter if they are Germans or Russian player's subs....

...I think you get the idea! Subs ALWAYS fire on the 'Open Fire' phase!

AND YES... In theory- you can use a sub as 'Open Fire' casualty as well as fire it too!

Then you ask: "What in heck do the destroyers do?"

Plenty!

*They stop further movements for enemy subs in sea zones (remember- subs can move through enemy navy WITHOUT stopping unless a DD is present!)

*The prevent the 'Opening Fire Casualty' for the subs (they stop the "first strike" option so to speak)-I know Mike hates those words but remembering back to previous editions..In Revised edition: Subs fire in Open Fire Phase and then REMOVE ANY casualties hit....BUT Destroyers make the hits/casualties from those subs removed at the end of the regular battle phase (When all other navy ships including DD fires!)

* Your subs CAN NOT submerge (retreat option for subs) while DDs are present!

*(OPTION RULE)...In our group- DDs are also needed to "spot" subs for planes in order
for your planes to hit enemy subs (makes subs last longer in the game without being demolished by air plane patrols!)

[Hope that helps!] ;)

BTW: I was just being silly...and wanted to make my point too! :D

-Nick- smile.gif

[ May 12, 2004, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: holywolfman ]

[holywolfman]

;)

[ May 12, 2004, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: holywolfman ]

[holywolfman]

BTW: Found Mike's posting on Subs:

Originally posted by Mike Selinker:
As I've said a few times, nothing ever stops a sub from attacking or defending in the opening fire step. It says this very clearly on p. 15 of the rulebook. Subs only and always fire in step 2.

Destroyers only let you avoid clearing your opening fire casualties in step 3. So if you have a destroyer, the sub still fires on it in opening fire either on attack or defense, but you don't clear the casualty until step 6. So, if that casualty hasn't fired yet, it gets to fire in step 4 or 5.

I hope that helps.

Mike

....Should clear things up!

-Nick- ;)

[ May 12, 2004, 09:02 PM: Message edited by: holywolfman ]

[holywolfman]

It is also in FAQ's... it can be downloaded with the "ROGUE COMMANDER" here:

http://gimmefreebies.com/nick/RogueCommander_v1_ZIP.zip

Enjoy!

-Nick- smile.gif

[Gorak]

whoops, yeah I must have been on crack when wrote that. Poorly worded, thanks for noticing boss. ;)