Tiger 1 baseset versus veteran tiger set IV

[boersma8]

If memory serves me right, the tiger I from the base-set can use its SA ( overrun) in both the movement phase and assault phase. That's TWO guaranteed soldier disruptions!!!! In addition it can still attack in the assault phase. With good support units you have a chance of actually taking out as many as THREE units in one turn!!!! ( e.g. SS panzergrenadiers with ruthless firing at +1 at the disrupted infantry!). Try doing that with a veteran tiger which lacks the overrun SA!!!!!!!!!

So I guess, what I'm trying to say is that, unless you know for sure you're going to be up against an enemy ( heavy) tank ( which you stand a much bigger chance of damaging and/or destroying outright with the veteran tiger) I'd go with the Tiger 1 from the baseset!

OK, Now let me have it!!!!!!!!

[Xartloz]

If memory serves me right, the tiger I from the base-set can use its SA ( overrun) in both the movement phase and assault phase. That's TWO guaranteed soldier disruptions!!!! In addition it can still attack in the assault phase.
OK, Now let me have it!!!!!!!!

Wrong. Tiger I cant move and attack in the same assault phase. To use Overrun you need to move into a hex with enemy soldiers. So even tho you can use overrun twice a turn (movement and assault) you wont be able to fire your guns as well.

Even tho your combo with SSPG and Tiger I can/could be nice I wouldnt make an entire build up around this, mainly for the sheer cost of points "just" to distrupt 2 soldiers pr. turn.

[boersma8]

Wrong. Tiger I cant move and attack in the same assault phase. To use Overrun you need to move into a hex with enemy soldiers. So even tho you can use overrun twice a turn (movement and assault) you wont be able to fire your guns as well.

Even tho your combo with SSPG and Tiger I can/could be nice I wouldnt make an entire build up around this, mainly for the sheer cost of points "just" to distrupt 2 soldiers pr. turn.

You're completely right! Don't know how I overlooked that ( it's not like I remember ever playing it wrong, but sitting here behind the computer, I guess I wasn't quite thinking clearly.....)

Fact remains that you can disrupt at least 1 soldier and then attack e.g. a tank with already good stats and chances of survival. That one infantry can then be killed by the support units. The tiger itself will probably at least disrupt and possibly even damage or destroy an enemy vehicle. Still a very good unit and therefore IMO not always necesarrily worse than the VET.....

[Richter von Manthofen]

BUt Tigers are not Anti infantry weapon - they are anti tank first. So if you move to a soldier (to use overrun) it is likely that enemy tanks are already near even behind you. The Tigers guns should be used from afar, because it has good chances to make damage/kill even from afar on most tanks. Also if you move into a hex containing enemy soldiers you might loose LOS on enemy tanks. I found it a rare sight that a Tiger actually uses its overrun ability. True its not a bad ability, but its rarely used.

[Qmark]

One small advantage Tiger 1 has over Vet is that the Tiger 1 leaves enough points available for six SSPG's and one Hamster, instead of just seven SSPG's.

[Richter von Manthofen]

With the firepower of 7 SSPGs and A VEt Tiger, I would NOT bother if some are disrupted from time to time - remember the HSF can't be everywhere on the board at the same moment.

[Sherman_buster]

The problem with the Tiger (and any higly expensive tank for that matter) is that one gun is never enough, no matter how big it is. So in my builds that are not tank swarms or infantry rushes I always add a PaK 40 or 3" gun/QF 17-Pdr. The German sniper with headshot can also be used, but it's both rather cheesy and only single-shot.
While such a build will simply turn any tanks into pulp, you've got 26 points OR LESS, (Depending on the tank and support unit you used. The cheapest is Tiger 1 + WES) to stop a 50, perhaps 60 point SSPG/Ranger horde.

That's the whole damn problem with AAM that's causing all that uproar about obsolete pieces- in the standard 100pt game format, you simply can't afford to use specialized units.

---

Sorry that my posts have lately become boring lectures/rants, but I'm really in need of someone to talk to right now.

[boersma8]

BUt Tigers are not Anti infantry weapon - they are anti tank first. So if you move to a soldier (to use overrun) it is likely that enemy tanks are already near even behind you. The Tigers guns should be used from afar, because it has good chances to make damage/kill even from afar on most tanks. Also if you move into a hex containing enemy soldiers you might loose LOS on enemy tanks. I found it a rare sight that a Tiger actually uses its overrun ability. True its not a bad ability, but its rarely used.

True,but I guess any allied soldier would be scared ******** with a tiger tank suddenly looming in front of it ( hence disruption). It's a very nice bonus. If somehow you knew that your opponent's build is going to be def. 5 infantry heavy, I'd seriously consider the Tiger 1. Even with crack shot it can happen quite often that you don't manage to disrupt the def. 5/5 infantry.Like you say, the ( vet) tiger is AT. However, the base set tiger GUARANTEES you a disruption AND, while obviously not as good as the vet's, still a very potent attack against a vehicle. Mind you, I'm not saying the base set tiger is better, all I'm saying is that when facing def. 5 infantry heavy builds it has its uses. Lastly about your comments regarding being flanked by (e.g.) shermans. I usually use a star-formed pattern of SS panzergrenadiers and panzerfausts to guard the tiger against short range attacks. At a distance of 3 or more hexes, USUALLY the tiger's rear defense of 6 is sufficient.Besides, it's suicidefor the Sherman, becuase it will subsequently be taken out by a panzerfaust and/or SS panzergrenadier. Not a bad trade. Against an IS 2 or sth similar, I agree you'd have a problem, but like I said,it works best against infantry heavy builds.......

[Colonel_Coo]

Use the blackshirts with the Tiger 1. With 37 points left you can buy 1 Hamster, 1 Paratrooper, 2 SS PG's and 3 Blackshirts.

The Blackshirts are excellent attackers when their opponent is disrutped. Basically anything they shoot at will havea real good chance of being dead if it disrutped. The Fallscmiger takes out enemy 82mm threats. The SS H'F controlls initiative (very important in a Tiger 1 build) and the 2 SS'PGs just soak-up the last 2 points of the build.

In this build, I don't mind using the MG 42 as a killer (50-50 on each shot to hit a 4 defense) for longer range support. Inreality, the SS-PG's are better though.

Close Assualt 8 and Hard charger on the SE para's is threat though. Doubled up per hex with a speed 3 Tiger, you better make sure you put the hurt on them quick.

So two builds:
Tiger 1
SSHF
3 Blackshirts
2 SS PG
1 FS para

Tiger 1
SSHF
MG 42 team
3 Blackshirts
1 FS para

[Photoner Hawkwind]

With the firepower of 7 SSPGs and A VEt Tiger, I would NOT bother if some are disrupted from time to time - remember the HSF can't be everywhere on the board at the same moment.

No, but having the Hampsterfurher on the board is definately a distraction to the allied player. :D