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View Full Version : Should the Germans attack the British first?


Donny
11-14-2003, 01:50 PM
I have only played A&A:E twice, so I don't have much experience off which to base my opinions, but I have had a few ideas based on those two games.

The first game went fairly evenly. I (as Germany) went after Russia, and was able to crush her fairly quickly. My rolls with my subs were pretty good at the beginning, so by making the occasional sub, I was able to hold off the Americans and British at the beginning. Once I had surrounded Moscow, I switched to making mostly Navy and creating additional infantry to defend Europe. America was not able to ever gain supremacy in the Mediterranean, though they got close, so their attempt to attack through Africa failed. Britain attempted a few times at Europe, but wasn't able to make much headway. With a large force of bombers, I was able to, after losing a tough naval battle at Gibralter, defeat the majority of the American navy. This gave me naval dominance, and the Allies conceded.

The second game went much much worse. I got terrible rolls at the beginning with my subs, giving the allies naval dominance very early on. This also gave the British the chance to start funneling in troops through Norway and Leningrad, slowing my down in Russia. I got into a prolonged war, exchanged hands with Belorussia every turn. I finally had beaten the Russian army up enough to attempt a massive attack into Belorussia, along with a small attack into Turkestan (I had just gotten the oil territories and Caucasus). However, I got bad rolls in Turkestan and lost a lot of troops in Belorussia, putting my army to shambles. By this time, the American navy was about to take the Mediterranean and begin land operations into the oil fields, along with the British moving even more troops into Northern Russia. I conceded.

We are about to start a third game, and I think that to take Russia, you must do two things. First, put almost all your money into the attack. If you don't crush them quickly, you are dead. Second, you have to get pretty good rolls at the beginning with your attacks on the Allied navy. You must destroy the whole British navy around Britain, take a good amount of the convoys, and slow down the Americans for at least 3-4 turn, since it takes, by my experience, at least 5-6 turns to beat back the Russian armies to a point where you can start putting significant IPC's into a navy.
The alternative I thought of was attacking Britain. The first turn, you move troops up to the Russian front, buy a fighter, possibly take some convoys, and destroy the British navy around Britain. The second turn, you must create 2-3 transports, more subs/fighters, and some infantry. Here you can either take out some more British ships with your planes, or slow down an impending Russian advance with some suicidal plane attacks with one infantry and a large amount of plans. Now, we added a house rule that allows with air raids (exclusive air attacks), so in the second turn, the German player would air raid Britain, annihilating the British air force (and probably taking some tought losses as well). The third turn the German player should make more subs/fighters, 2-3 transports, and infantry/artillery. They do the same as the second turn, only having to make sure the Americans are slowed down enough before they can start sending in reinforcements to Britain. Under our house rules, I attack in the third turn, because of the lack of a British navy. Without the air raid, the germans could still attack with 6 infantry/artillery and the rest of the air force, but is pretty likely to fail.
In the fourth turn, the German player can now attack with around 10 infantry into Britain, along with around 7-9 planes. This should wipe out Britain pretty easily. And the German player is in a position to have a much easier time in delaying the Americans and destroying the Russians (as they will have naval superiority in the North temporarily, and a sizeable force of transports).

This, of course, should be changed according to how the British player reacts. If he attempts to build up a large ground force to defend Britain, he abandons the sea and allows the German player to potentially land their troops anywhere (Canada, leningrad, archangel, etc.). Also, this gives the German player the opportunity to take naval funds and transfer them to either more transports and infantry/artillery or to more bombers. With a few bombers, the German player can then SPR the British with a large (6-7 fighter) escort. This will not only harm the British economy, but gives the German player a chance to take out one or two British fighters, as the German air force should outnumber the British out by a lot. If the British air force falls, Britain falls.

If the British player transfers funds to air force, the German player should respond with a larger number of transports and infantry/artillery and attack quicker, as the UK with be vulnerable to invasion.

Finally, if the British player uses funds on navy, the German player will slaughter him.

The reason I propose an attack on Britain is because of the length of time it takes to destroy Russia. Even an optimistic 6-7 turns puts the Germans so far behind in navy that they are going to have a heck of a time catching up. In the first game, when I had taken out Russian, I was making only slightly more than the Allies (usually around 5-6 IPC's more), which is not enough to catch up with the navy very quickly. Plus, there is the possibility that Britain sends troops after troop into RUssia, dirupting the expected attack on North Russia. Attacking South Russia is slower, as reiforcements are farther back, so it seems that taking out Britain is vital to destroying Russia quickly. Also, that Northern naval superiority will force Russia's defense to spread out, grossly thinning out their depleting funds.

Now, someone could certainly say that the Russias could attack the Germans within that 4-5 turn destruction of Britain. This is true, but they can not hope to attack in the North (reinforcements from Germany come to quickly), and an attack on the south yields very few IPC's, so is too slow to actually harm Germany much, and also is subject to a splitting attack from Northern Germany, which can isolate a Russian attack force in the middle of hostile Germany with no reinforcements. Russian reinforcements come slow anyway, almost exclusively from Moscow, so Russia doesn't seem like much of a threat.

RuHurt
11-14-2003, 06:40 PM
I only have advice for attacking Russia. If the Russian player is smart, he will invest all his money in Infantry, and will easly stop any German attack. The German player should, in this case, attack Russia in full force the first turn (investing the 15i.p.cs he gets in the begining into the navy), but after wiping out as many defenders as possible, WITHDRAW, thus saving a large part of his army, and preventing Russia from attacking effectivly. The German player should then keep attacking Russia on subsequent turns, keeping them from attacking, and concentrate much of his money into Subs. Once he has control of the sea, he should plan on attacking England as soon as possible.

Good luck

Donny
12-14-2003, 10:18 PM
I don't see how the Germans could possibly gain control of the sea with the Americans and British making so much each turn. If you were able to take out the whole british navy (aside from the destroyer and transport in canada) and take a couple convoys, you would have a chance, but you would have to retain control of practically all the convoys all the time against american and british destroyers. I think the only chance germany has is taking someone out quickly.

Now, the oil is the other huge deal, which German absolutely needs to win. If they can gain the oil and hold back the americans and british at sea until then, they have a chance for naval surperiority. The British and Americans would be making somewhere around 40-45, with the Germans at around 50 (but that's assuming they hold off all the Russian attacks). At that point, they could shut down and destroy Britain quickly, sealing the game.

blackwarx
12-16-2003, 04:34 AM
Hello Donny!

I have played A&A:E about 20 matches now - germany all matches!

Some remarks here:
1. Most important thing in strategy terms for germany to win is SPEED! The less rounds you need to defeat either britain or russia the better!
(you already have the force advantage on the board when the game starts but the allies will catch up due to their superior economy round by round...)(even more in A&A:P btw)

2. Do not waiste time therefore for "unnecessary" battles or aims! Naval supremacy is not a real aim in this game to force the allies to retire - they will outproduce you in the long run until they are really newbies! Only thing is to hold the americans away long enough to win in britain or moscow!

3. You can only win by occupying britain if your first massive strike on the whole british navy is kind of really succesful!!! If this is the case you have to push the landing preparations! (if you combine your initial forces well thought out you can manage to attack all british ships with the better chance on your side! but chances are one thing, the real rolls the other! smile.gif ))

4. If not it is better to achieve victory engaging in a hard long fight against russia!

5. I personally prefer the "1st strike on british navy" now, but it is also possible to fully concentrate on russia (in combination with delaying allies landing in normandy later!) to win the game!

blackwarx

Darksideknight
12-17-2003, 01:17 AM
Hi Donnie, I have been playing A+A for three years and have played Europe the most. Over 100 games against expert compitition and haven't lost a game in the past year with Germany. The easy route to victory lies in moscow. I buy two turns of all infantry then tanks tanks tanks. I move most of my forces to poland and southern europe and attack russia in the first turn and then retreat. Wittling down their infantry. I consolidate my force and win ussually in five to six turns. I don't ussaully buy any naval units. I get the most out of the german wolfpack that I start with. I get a sub with the starting twelve ipc buy put it in the mid atlantic and take american convoys and british convoys attacking all the fleets I use all my aircraft the first turn taking the north sea fleet and the channel and the other british fleet to assure victory. The Davis straight and the atlantic sea fleets are even odds battles, but if you can win one or both and take the pricier convoys, you should hold the allies off in plenty of time to take Russia. wittle away at their infanty and build a huge force of infantry and tanks and then boogie for Moscow with a purpose you should have enough infantry to keep your tanks in moscow for good.

Good Luck

P.S. I am working out a good strategy to assure victory with Britain. But haven't found any clear cut ways but luck with the dice there .

pellulo
12-17-2003, 05:02 AM
I wonder would your format work with Germany, if it followed Historical fightning. Of not having Russia and Japan fight each other, till the last round of play(U.S.S.R. did not declared war against Japan, till about 2 weeks before W.W.II ended). Thanks, Pellulo

[ February 18, 2004, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: pellulo ]

Darksideknight
12-17-2003, 10:54 AM
I was refering to the europe addition of A&A where japan is not involved not the original version. Thanks though- jason

Darksideknight
12-17-2003, 10:56 AM
I was refering to the europe addition of A&A where japan is not involved not the original version. Thanks though- jason

SkyPilot
09-21-2004, 09:50 PM
Now, we added a house rule that allows with air raids (exclusive air attacks)

Hello Donny. Not sure if you still browse these forums but I'm interested in how your air raid house rule works. Could you please explain?