Who Likes Planes In 100 Point Games?

[Kaufschtick]

Just curious as to who feels planes are worth choosing in 100 point games? Even with the added ability of being effective against the new "support units", I still find planes not worth the cost in 100 point games. I find that partisans, para's and light AFV's are more cost effective and versatile.

Note: This is not a gripe, I like the game as is and planes the way they are. :)

[Predator666]

I like planes and try to use them as much as I can if I'm axis. Otherwise I scarecly use them. In 100 point games I usually don't use planes but sometimes do if I feel I will really need them.

[DocD]

Hey kaufy, docd here. Yes, I support the usage of planes in 100pt games.

[Lotus]

I like planes in any game. At the moment I've taken a strong liking to that ugly Dornier. Kept a Typhoon off my ammo dump for most of my last game until the Typhoon came out and got shot down. :D

Planes are much fun.

[Rick]

Prior to Set 5, I didn't give much consideration to my builds and using planes. I thought of them as frosting but, not the cake. They did not have enough of AI or AT value for their cost. Plus, their defenses were just not enough to last. They just did not have enough of an impact on the battle in my opinion when compared to what their cost; Shall that be one 17 pt plane or 3 SSPzrgr, or 4 Garands, or 5 SMLE.

Now, that we have 'support units', I am reconsidering all my builds. Quick vehicles, Paratroops, Partisans and yes, even considering the low cost planes as viable ways to knock out Ammo Dumps, or HQ and the like.

Currently I'm gaming out various combinations to see what works well.

Game on.

Rick

[Kaufschtick]

Prior to Set 5, I didn't give much consideration to my builds and using planes. I thought of them as frosting but, not the cake. They did not have enough of AI or AT value for their cost. Plus, their defenses were just not enough to last. They just did not have enough of an impact on the battle in my opinion when compared to what their cost; Shall that be one 17 pt plane or 3 SSPzrgr, or 4 Garands, or 5 SMLE.

Now, that we have 'support units', I am reconsidering all my builds. Quick vehicles, Paratroops, Partisans and yes, even considering the low cost planes as viable ways to knock out Ammo Dumps, or HQ and the like.

Currently I'm gaming out various combinations to see what works well.

Game on.

Rick

I guess that about sums up my take on a/c too. The new a/c seem to be priced a little lower with more "punch" and abilities. So I'm kinda re-examining the whole thing for regular 100 point games.

[carson]

I have no issues with planes in 100 pt games.
If my foe includes them, fine. if they don't, fine.
As for using them myself? I'll use them if I'm in the mood, or if I think they'll either prove usefull or entertaining enough. Or if they'll fit a particular scenario etc. Really it just depends upon what I'm building.......

[Cruizin2000]

For me, airplanes depends on my mood and my opponent's mood. Are we "test driving" pieces to see how they interact with other pieces? Sure, I'll try an airplane or two. Do we have alot of time to play? Sure, maybe. Does my opponent want to hand me my ass on a plate? I probably won't use airplanes. Scenarios? Sure. Large battles? Absolutley!! Do we have a small amount of time to play? Probably not. I suppose larger battles with all of the "bells and whistles" is where it's at for airplanes, support units, and fortifications.

C2000

[Richter von Manthofen]

Sure if the game is set in early war a plane or two can save the day. I like to use Spits with my Brits. A Focke or even Messerschmitt has proven effective against the pesky french (afterwards fries ;))


the Stuka is too late to be effective against most 1943+ builds.

[Surfer_Sam]

Sometimes I use planes. I usualy do it inconsistenly(spelling?) so that my oppoent doesn't buy a anti-air gun.

[wkko]

When I use Japan, Planes save me alot

[cannonfodder]

I do use planes, sparingly. I especially like the Me 262 with it's excellent SA and the Dornier with Speed Boost appear regularly in my 100 point builds. I've even played both in one game. I lost, but it was fun.

[Modern Major-General]

I find planes are good in a 100 point game and are just as effective as well as vulnerable as any other piece. (Well, okay maybe not a King Tiger.) I have had planes last the whole game and kill a soldier unit every turn and other times it would be destroyed on the first turn. But that can happen with any unit you put on the map.

[Captain_Blackadder]

I think planes kick ass....nothing more fun than deepstriking your opponents fuel/ammo dumps with strafing run by a P-38....or perhaps a pesky light tank blown to bits from a rocket attack from the cadillac of the sky(P-51 mustang) or even a ME-262 wiping the floor with either of the afore mention whilst going second :D ..........ALL GOOD STUFF !

I have played in 2 tournaments thus far and have not met one person that has used a plane.......victory's are lopsided in my favour .Aircraft in the game add a very good advantage if properly chosen for the build.2 shermans and a P-51 plus infantry support is deadly :eek:

[oddfellow]

Just played 2 planes in a 200 point game to great effect. ME-262 killed lots of units in the open field trying to maneuver and my Stuka put a key rear shot on a Sherman, leaving it vulnerable to AT guns to mop up. It was very fun to use planes, though I think my opponent was caught a bit by surprise, leaving key units in the Hill hexes... I think he'll not make that same mistake twice. I ended up losing the battle as I could not dislodge his Crocodile from the objective, but it was fun because it was the first time planes held their own and were worth the points.

I've also formed the opinion that 200 point games on 2x3 maps that make a large, square battlefield are much more engaging that the standard 100 pt four map affairs. The points allow more flexibility to use combined arms and spend the points on things like planes, etc. and the wider maps allows for more lateral movement.

[Captain_Blackadder]

Just played 2 planes in a 200 point game to great effect. ME-262 killed lots of units in the open field trying to maneuver and my Stuka put a key rear shot on a Sherman, leaving it vulnerable to AT guns to mop up. It was very fun to use planes, though I think my opponent was caught a bit by surprise, leaving key units in the Hill hexes... I think he'll not make that same mistake twice. I ended up losing the battle as I could not dislodge his Crocodile from the objective, but it was fun because it was the first time planes held their own and were worth the points.

I've also formed the opinion that 200 point games on 2x3 maps that make a large, square battlefield are much more engaging that the standard 100 pt four map affairs. The points allow more flexibility to use combined arms and spend the points on things like planes, etc. and the wider maps allows for more lateral movement.

I agree...larger maps make planes vital and also VERY signifigant..they can make or break a battle...it all depends on the build and the tacticle flexibilty

[Lotus]

I agree...larger maps make planes vital and also VERY signifigant..they can make or break a battle...it all depends on the build and the tacticle flexibilty

Bigger battles both open up and demand more options.

The bigger the battle, the more you can get away with, but the more you must prepare for. Expect planes in a big battle. Also expect paras. And of course, with the arrival of set V...expect ammo dumps. They are make or break IMO.

And then, as has been noted by some higher minds in other threads: however many planes, etc., expect cover rolls. There, I said it again. ;)

[cannonfodder]

YARGH, cover rolls. Blah. Phooey. Damn and Blast. Cover rolls. ptui.
Hmmm,
A couple of Stukas and an Me 262, and a whack of infantry. Might be fun.

[gunhawk]

There is no airplane in the game that is effective against a tank with Superior Armor. Especially not a Veteran Tiger that can still hit on 4,5,6 when disrupted or damaged. As I've said before, I'd like to see a "tank buster" airplane for both the Axis and the Allies. We definately need a P-47 Thunderbolt carrying a bomb with anti-armor ability. I'd say that a plane like that should cost about 40-50 points and have *one* shot with an anti-armor of 17 and no save for terrain. *Then* we'd have a realistic "Bulge" type scenario. As it is a Veteran Tiger has nothing to fear from the sky.

Gunhawk

[DarkMercy]

Planes can be fun in larger games, but in 100pt games I don't like spending points on things that can't hold an objective.

[TheCygnysGuardian]

I usually use planes. There's nothing like watching my opponent's troops getting mowed down by my Me262s! :D

[oddfellow]

Veteran Tiger has nothing to fear from the sky.

... Vet Tigers don't fear a whole lot in this game methinks. Sky or otherwise.

[Predator666]

Vet. Tigers should fear the Typhoon or Mustange. With the right amount of successes those can do some work on em.

[gunhawk]

Vet. Tigers should fear the Typhoon or Mustange. With the right amount of successes those can do some work on em.

That's true of quite few pieces in the game. The problem is that the "right amount of successes" against a veteran Tiger is highly improbable considering "cover" saves and Superior Armor. And even if you *do* wack a Vet Tiger and damage it the big cat can *still* roll 4,5,6 to hit. There is no aircraft in A&A miniatures that's a genuine threat to the Veteran Tiger's effectiveness, but historically there certainly *ought* to be.

Gunhawk

[oddfellow]

Vet. Tigers should fear the Typhoon or Mustange. With the right amount of successes those can do some work on em.

Don't have those planes... guess I'll have to get me some! Most online retailers I deal with are sold out on most planes.:( ... How do the Typhoon and Mustang hold up against infantry? They sound like good planes!

[Sheppard1972]

No, I don't like planes in 100 point games but I do like to use them in 200 points or better. I don't do well with planes but love the element they bring to the game. If I play with a teammate my planes provide cover for my teammate so his planes can hit other important targets.

I would love to see a Thunderbolt that is a real tank buster because I think it would add a new element to the game by forcing the Axis player to honor the chance of one being in his/her opponents build. How much more value would the Axis planes be worth with this threat?:)

[Surfer_Sam]

This is why I hate the Vet Tiger, It takes no skill to use and is not fun to use. It freakin unstoppable!

[wkko]

This is why I hate the Vet Tiger, It takes no skill to use and is not fun to use. It freakin unstoppable!

But I hate 88 more than Vet. Tiger.

[gunhawk]

This is why I hate the Vet Tiger, It takes no skill to use and is not fun to use. It freakin unstoppable!

Our small group has banned it from informal play. I think we're going to ban it from league and tourney play as well if a "Tank Busting" airplane isn't introduced.

Gunhawk

[Malaky]

It's pretty funny now that you mention this. One of the guys with whom we play always plays german and is pretty much in love with his Vet Tiger. Fact is I think he touches himself with the Vet Tiger and the KT at night. That and he uses it to our dispair asking us why do we think it is so strong and saying incredibly witty remarks like: "You know, if you get all your success with your rockets on your plane you can damage it"... Yeah right... Banning it might be a good idea. Anyway, we're planning of starting to use the HHR rules soon if we all can agree to START USING THEM SOMETIME *cough cough*

Back on the subject, I sometime use planes in a small 100 pts game. Spitfires aren't that expensive plus they are "teh awesome" at protecting your back from those pesky enemy planes. We usually play a bit bigger than 100pts so I can't really compare, but there is nothing like a 150pts force of Defiant paratroopers backed up by three Spitfires and a Typhoon. All of this being backed by some yanks pushing to relieve pressure on those paras. Ah... Good times. :p

Well, time for some FFXII!

Over and out

[Kaufschtick]

No, I don't like planes in 100 point games but I do like to use them in 200 points or better.

My take as well.:)

I don't do well with planes but love the element they bring to the game. If I play with a teammate my planes provide cover for my teammate so his planes can hit other important targets.

I would love to see a Thunderbolt that is a real tank buster because I think it would add a new element to the game by forcing the Axis player to honor the chance of one being in his/her opponents build. How much more value would the Axis planes be worth with this threat?:)

I haven't played teams yet, but I am with you 100% on everything else.

[Kaufschtick]

...I'm not bashing the game or aircraft here. I like the planes but I've been frustrated with them in 100 point games and, up to now, would rather use strictly ground units in 100 pointers. I'm not condemning them or anything, I just seriously was wondering who liked to use them in 100 point games. You know, in case there was something I was missing, which normally is most of the time with me as I'm too busy thinking to myself "how good this beer tastes" when I'm playing and how great it is that I've scratched out some time in an otherwise very busy life to hang out "with me mates"! Arrg! Here's to those "good times"!

As far as larger point battles, I'm good with the planes. In 100 point games you have to make every point count, obviously. So are they worth it in that case? As of now, IMHO I'm not convinced that they are, but that's just me. When you get down to it though, it's the friends and the beer that really counts, anyway!:D

It's all good though, this ain't no "all haters, man your poison pens" thread or anything!:D

I've got alot of loot in this game and I really like it. It's been well worth every penny with a few, uhm, we'll call them "minor" exceptions here and there. But overall, I'm a big fan. No really, I am.:)

[Sheppard1972]

I haven't played teams yet, but I am with you 100% on everything else.

What would you say to a challage of a team game sometime after the holidays as I might be able to get Khayman7 and myself to take on you and Cruzin2000. Middle Ohioan's VS. Northern Ohioan's. It would be great if we can work something out and if not keep up the great gaming. I'll tip a beer to you guys at the next gaming night.

[Cruizin2000]

What would you say to a challage of a team game sometime after the holidays as I might be able to get Khayman7 and myself to take on you and Cruzin2000. Middle Ohioan's VS. Northern Ohioan's. It would be great if we can work something out and if not keep up the great gaming. I'll tip a beer to you guys at the next gaming night.

Hmmm, that sounds like a blast. I'll have to get ahold of Kaufy and see what his schedule looks like. His work hours vary from week to week where I'm a M-F 8-5 person. Lucky me!! TA has the same weird work schedule as well. I like being "normal". :)

C2000

[cannonfodder]

I just played one of those "what the hell" games where it was about odd combos rather than efficient army use. I used a 262 and a Stuka to great effect. I got lucky and the enemy didn't bring any planes so the Stuka survived. The Stuka killed 3 armoured units and the 262 smeared inf every time they came out from cover. Of course it helped that the enemy didn't read the card and thought hills provide cover from the 262....Now he knows better.

[Sheppard1972]

I just played one of those "what the hell" games where it was about odd combos rather than efficient army use. I used a 262 and a Stuka to great effect. I got lucky and the enemy didn't bring any planes so the Stuka survived. The Stuka killed 3 armoured units and the 262 smeared inf every time they came out from cover. Of course it helped that the enemy didn't read the card and thought hills provide cover from the 262....Now he knows better.

Cannonfodder, you are Evil, pure Evil.;) Attention everyone: Watch yourself when you play Cannonfodder.:p

Cruizin2000, PM me when you talk to your buddies as I will talk to Khayman7 about this.

[Khayman7]

Doing a little North vs. Central Ohio sounds good to me. I two weeks off starting in t-minus 2 work days! Though admittedly 2 of those 3 weekends are kind of spoken for with Xmas and New Years.

As for the topic of this thread, if I'm playing competitively I wouldn't use planes in 100 points, they can't kill enough to justify their use and are usually nullified from a large part of the map (if your using origional ones) by a single AAG. You NEED something that can kill AND hold ground in 100 points. In 150+ maybe. Now if we're just playing for fun I like to try out some themes/historical type of groups with some air support for the combined arms action.

Side note, playing on a large flocked map with 3d terrain is a lot of fun, but also leaves a lot more open ground for the jets, in particular the ME262, it just becomes a beast! With that 5 defense you can put it right up to close range against any ground unit that doesn't have AA. I've only been disrupted once in 3 games with it. I should really be keeping track of that things kills instead of my lowly fortress defender, but it always brings a smile to my face when I'm reminded how it rolled 6 hits in 7 dice killing the SEPT that everyone swore would walk away fine and get the objective! If you know my rolling this is nothing short of a miracle.

[Eisenheim]

I find that the Stuka is very useful in GE v. US games, as it can easily smash a Sherman of any variety save Easy Eight. It's also very good if you have an artillery battery that needs to be protected from a blitz by a light vehicle. I occasionally use a Typhoon as well, but it's generally only the Stuka for 100pts.

[horacus]

For 100 points, well, I don't like Planet too much. For 150+ games, they are always there.