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MarcusAurelius
01-11-2007, 04:36 PM
Another list, this one focused on World War II carriers. Year commissioned in parentheses, with additional ships in each class noted where possible. A quick look at this list demonstrates the overwhelming economic advantage of the Allies — especially from 1942 onward.

BRITISH ROYAL NAVY
Argus (1918)
Hermes (1923)
Eagle (1924)
Furious (1925)
Glorious class (1928-30): Glorious, Courageous
Ark Royal (1938)
Illustrious class (1940-41): Illustrious, Formidable, Indomitable, Victorious
Nairana class escort carrier (1941-44): Audacity, Nairana, Campania, Activity, Pretoria Castle, Vindex
Avenger class escort carrier (1942-43): Avenger, Biter, Dasher
Bogue/Attacker class escort carrier (1942-44): Attacker, Battler, Chaser, Hunter, Fencer, Stalker, Striker, Pursuer
Unicorn light carrier (1943)
Bogue/Ameer/Ruler class escort carrier (1943-44): 20+ ships
Implacable class (1944): Implacable, Indefatigable
Colossus class light carrier (1945): Glory, Ocean, Vengeance, Venerable
Majestic class (never commissioned): Majestic, Terrible, Magnificent, Powerful, Leviathan, Hercules

FRENCH MARINE NATIONALE
Bearn (1927)
Avenger class escort carrier (1944): Dixmude
Joffre class (never commissioned): Joffre, Painleve

GERMAN KRIEGSMARINE
Graf Zeppelin (never commissioned)

IMPERIAL JAPANESE NAVY
Hosho (1922)
Akagi (1927)
Kaga (1929)
Ryujo light carrier (1933)
Soryu class (1937): Soryu, Hiryu
Shokaku class (1941): Shokaku, Zuikaku
Shoho class (1941): Shoho, Zuiho
Hiyo class (1942): Hiyo, Junyo
Taiyo class escort carrier (1942): Taiyo, Unyo, Chuyo
Akitsu Maru class escort carrier (1942-43): Akitsu Maru, Nigitsu Maru
Kaiyo class escort carrier (1943): Kaiyo
Shinyo escort carrier (1943)
Shinano (1944)
Chitose light carrier (1944)
Taiho (1944)
Unryu class (1944): Unryu, Amagi, Katsuragi
Ibuki light carrier (never commissioned)
Yamashiro Maru class escort carrier (never commissioned)
Shimano Maru class escort carrier (never commissioned)

ITALIAN REGIA MARINA
Aquila (never commissioned)

ROYAL CANADIAN NAVY
Bogue/Prince Williams class escort carrier (1943): Nabob
Bogue/Ameer/Ruler class escort carrier (1944): Puncher

UNITED STATES NAVY
Lexington class (1927): Lexington, Saratoga
Ranger (1934)
Yorktown class (1937-38): Yorktown, Enterprise, Hornet
Wasp (1940)
Sangamon class escort carrier (1942): Sangamon, Chenango, Suwannee
Independence class light carrier (1942-43): Independence, Princeton, Belleau Wood, Cowpens, Monterey, Langley, Cabot, Bataan, San Jacinto
Essex class — short hull (1942-44): Essex, Yorktown, Intrepid, Hornet, Franklin, Lexington, Bunker Hill, Wasp, Bennington, Bon Homme Richard
Essex/Ticonderoga class — long hull (1944-45): Ticonderoga, Randolph, Hancock, Boxer
Bogue class escort carrier (1942-45): 20+ ships
Casablanca class escort carrier (1943-44): 40+ ships
Commencement Bay class escort carrier (1944-45): 20+ ships
Midway class (1945): Midway, Franklin D. Roosevelt

Flyboy
01-11-2007, 07:09 PM
I never knew that the British Navy had so many carriers durring WWII you always hear about the American and Japinese ones but never the British ones
Thanks :)

BossGnome
01-11-2007, 08:19 PM
The reason you never hear about the british carriers is because of their comparatively poor performance during WW2. IIRC the Illustrious class carriers could only carry something like 50ish planes, compared to the IJN's average of 70 some and the USN's 90 some. The british carriers did, however, have armoured flightdecks, a big advantage over the japanese ones, but it is really in the plane selection that the british failed. A lot of their carriers were still equipped with old biplane swordfish torpedo bombers, and although I can't quite remember what their carrier fighters were, I remember that they were nothing comparable to the american F4F and the japanese Zero. And I won't even get into when the corsair came in:D

RBloom0566
01-11-2007, 08:21 PM
The reason you never hear about the british carriers is because of their comparatively poor performance during WW2. IIRC the Illustrious class carriers could only carry something like 50ish planes, compared to the IJN's average of 70 some and the USN's 90 some. The british carriers did, however, have armoured flightdecks, a big advantage over the japanese ones, but it is really in the plane selection that the british failed. A lot of their carriers were still equipped with old biplane swordfish torpedo bombers, and although I can't quite remember what their carrier fighters were, I remember that they were nothing comparable to the american F4F and the japanese Zero. And I won't even get into when the corsair came in:D

Primarily the Fulmar Fairy.

Diamondback
01-11-2007, 08:31 PM
BTW, IIRC the Ruler class were also Bogues. Gimme a couple minutes to rip through DANFS and I'll post comparative specs.

It doesn't help that almost every CVE built in a US yard was built on a standard Maritime Commission C3-series hull. Not to mention that classes are rather confused, they're all mixed together with no "linear progression" from Bogue to Prince William to Casablanca like, say, the CLAA line of Atlanta->Oakland->Juneau.

I will mention right now, though, that Ticonderoga and several other Essex had a 16' stretch, enough to cite them as a separate subclass if not a class of their own. (I prefer separate class to avoid confusion; grouping different designs in the same class is one of the tings that gives me fits when trying to research the IJN!)

Texas_Archer
01-11-2007, 09:37 PM
Some of the british carriers also carried a variation of the F4F wildcat. I believe it was called the Martlet

mikoyan
01-11-2007, 10:16 PM
Although she never saw any action as she was commissioned in Sept 1945, you could include the USS Midway.

Imperious leader
01-11-2007, 10:19 PM
Germans had a second carrier DKM Peter Strasser in planning stage

Diamondback
01-11-2007, 10:21 PM
Mikoyan, when I finish my detailed lists, I plan to include EVERYTHING that could have been operational before August 1946, whether it was built, construction started but canceled, or never made it past blueprints. Back when I was part of a team trying to pitch a WW2 naval-minis game to that other Seattle-based game company, we had planned for the final set to be an alternate-history "WWII version of Star Wars: Infinities" allowing players to answer the great what-ifs for themselves: What if Japan hadn't surrendered? What if Patton had lived? What if Stalin had turned (more) hostile? What if any of a number of different technologies had been deployed, or MacArthur's Operation DOWNFALL had come to pass? Like I said, I still have my research from that and am trawling through it for info here.

Yes, Midway is planned for inclusion on my list--have to have an Allied counter to Shinano, right? (Although recent evidence calls Shinano's A/C capacity into question...)

mikoyan
01-11-2007, 11:21 PM
Mikoyan, when I finish my detailed lists, I plan to include EVERYTHING that could have been operational before August 1946, whether it was built, construction started but canceled, or never made it past blueprints. Back when I was part of a team trying to pitch a WW2 naval-minis game to that other Seattle-based game company, we had planned for the final set to be an alternate-history "WWII version of Star Wars: Infinities" allowing players to answer the great what-ifs for themselves: What if Japan hadn't surrendered? What if Patton had lived? What if Stalin had turned (more) hostile? What if any of a number of different technologies had been deployed, or MacArthur's Operation DOWNFALL had come to pass? Like I said, I still have my research from that and am trawling through it for info here.

Yes, Midway is planned for inclusion on my list--have to have an Allied counter to Shinano, right? (Although recent evidence calls Shinano's A/C capacity into question...)

That is cool. It almost sounds like one of my favorite add ons the 1946 expansion for Aces of the Pacific.

MarcusAurelius
01-12-2007, 07:45 AM
Primarily the Fulmar Fairy.

You mean the Fairey Fulmar, right?

It's one thing to name a company Fairey Aviation for its founder, industry pioneer Sir Richard Fairey — but quite another to name a plane after a diminuative flying elf.

MarcusAurelius
01-12-2007, 08:28 AM
Mikoyan, when I finish my detailed lists, I plan to include EVERYTHING that could have been operational before August 1946, whether it was built, construction started but canceled, or never made it past blueprints.

When it comes to WaS, I think this is a tough call. I'd rather have miniatures of all the ships actually in service during WWII before anything that wasn't even commissioned before the end of the war.

You can make a strong case for including carriers that were nearly completed, such as the Graf Zeppelin or Aquila; GHQ includes both in its 1/2400 miniature line. The Midway and Unryu classes probably belong in the same category. But I would save hypothetical units for later sets.

MarcusAurelius
01-12-2007, 10:04 AM
Although she never saw any action as she was commissioned in Sept 1945, you could include the USS Midway.

Made a few updates to incorporate the Midway, Majestic and Implacable classes (don't know how I overlooked that one), along with the short- and long-hull carriers of the Essex class.

Stealth
01-12-2007, 10:31 AM
When it comes to WaS, I think this is a tough call. I'd rather have miniatures of all the ships actually in service during WWII before anything that wasn't even commissioned before the end of the war.

You can make a strong case for including carriers that were nearly completed, such as the Graf Zeppelin or Aquila; GHQ includes both in its 1/2400 miniature line. The Midway and Unryu classes probably belong in the same category. But I would save hypothetical units for later sets.

For non-completed ships I'd love to have the Graf Zepplin and Aquila. The inclusion of just these two would open a whole slew of scenarios, such as the much talked about sortie of the Kriegsmarine to take on the NA convoys.
Imagine!

Graf Zepplin
Bismark
Tirpitz
Scharnhorst
Gneisenau
Hipper
Prinz Eugen
Graf Spee
Lutzow
Scheer supported by light cruisers and U-Boats taking on the Home Fleet
(The German Z-class DDs would never have lasted in the Atlantic due to topweight and poor seakeeping.

Or a Mediterrainian raid by the Italians:

Littorio
Vitorio Venito
Roma
Aquila
Pola
Zara
Fiume
and plenty os supporting land based air and MTBs, taking on the British Med fleet....

MarcusAurelius
01-12-2007, 10:45 AM
The German Kriegsmarine originally planned to build a large North Sea battle fleet capable of taking on the Royal Navy — including four aircraft carriers and six H class battleships to be completed by 1945.

But that all changed at the start of World War II, when it was decided that these projects would tie up too many resources vital to the army and Luftwaffe. This cleared the way for the rise of the U-boats and the Battle of the Atlantic.

Stealth
01-12-2007, 11:02 AM
The German Kriegsmarine originally planned to build a large North Sea battle fleet capable of taking on the Royal Navy — including four aircraft carriers and six H class battleships to be completed by 1945.

But that all changed at the start of World War II, when it was decided that these projects would tie up too many resources vital to the army and Luftwaffe. This cleared the way for the rise of the U-boats and the Battle of the Atlantic.

True. but the Z-Plan was entirely unrealistic and relied on the Royal Navy to not build any additional units to match them.

At least the Graf Zepplin was an achievable goal, was at least 50% completed, and just its inclusion would provide lots of replay value.

MarcusAurelius
01-12-2007, 01:15 PM
I'd like to eventually see WaS miniatures for the Graf Zeppelin and Aquila, as well — just not before getting more essential units.

Diamondback
01-13-2007, 06:58 AM
When it comes to WaS, I think this is a tough call. I'd rather have miniatures of all the ships actually in service during WWII before anything that wasn't even commissioned before the end of the war.

You can make a strong case for including carriers that were nearly completed, such as the Graf Zeppelin or Aquila; GHQ includes both in its 1/2400 miniature line. The Midway and Unryu classes probably belong in the same category. But I would save hypothetical units for later sets.

Marcus, our old plan was to do all the research for every possible ship first, then focus on one year at a time, creating each battle as a separate set, then after all of a year's battles, do a "Year in Review" covering everything from that year not in a battle set. This would have allowed us to do multiple versions of a ship to represent upgrades, or, in Bismarck's case, decay and degradation as the Royal Navy inflicted small but ultimately fatal damage to the leviathan.

I had also favored a "Gathering Storm" set as a precursor before any of the battles, but was shot down.

Colonel_Coo
01-13-2007, 07:02 PM
For non-completed ships I'd love to have the Graf Zepplin and Aquila. The inclusion of just these two would open a whole slew of scenarios, such as the much talked about sortie of the Kriegsmarine to take on the NA convoys.
Imagine!

Graf Zepplin
Bismark
Tirpitz
Scharnhorst
Gneisenau
Hipper
Prinz Eugen
Graf Spee
Lutzow
Scheer supported by light cruisers and U-Boats taking on the Home Fleet
(The German Z-class DDs would never have lasted in the Atlantic due to topweight and poor seakeeping.

Or a Mediterrainian raid by the Italians:

Littorio
Vitorio Venito
Roma
Aquila
Pola
Zara
Fiume
and plenty os supporting land based air and MTBs, taking on the British Med fleet....

Just imagine all that steel in Panthers and Tiger with the manpower to boot! Russia = dead had it not been for the BB's and CV's of Germany.

MarcusAurelius
02-05-2007, 01:49 PM
Bump for transfer to new Axis & Allies Naval Miniatures forum.

Lynx7725
02-05-2007, 07:26 PM
IMPERIAL JAPANESE NAVY
[..]
Unryu class (never commissioned): Unryu, Amagi, Katsuragi, Kasagi, Aso, Ikoma
Uhm, I'll contest this. The Unryu was sunk on 19 Dec 1944 by the US Submarine Redfish while on active duty. The Amagi was pretty much wrecked by air attacks in late 1945, capsizing on 29 July 1945 in Mitsuko-jima (Kure), having served quietly since late 1944. Katsuragi had a quiet war, survived it, and was scrapped in 1947.

MarcusAurelius
02-06-2007, 07:32 AM
Uhm, I'll contest this. The Unryu was sunk on 19 Dec 1944 by the US Submarine Redfish while on active duty. The Amagi was pretty much wrecked by air attacks in late 1945, capsizing on 29 July 1945 in Mitsuko-jima (Kure), having served quietly since late 1944. Katsuragi had a quiet war, survived it, and was scrapped in 1947.

Good catch. I've updated the list to reflect the fact that the Unryu, Amagi and Katsuragi were all commissioned in 1944.

Legbiter
02-06-2007, 08:02 AM
Primarily the Fulmar Fairy.

Later the Sea Hurricane which was reasonably successful, and the Seafire [naval Spitfire] which wasn't, largely because its undercarriage proved highly unsuitable for deck-landing.

Legbiter
02-06-2007, 08:18 AM
The reason you never hear about the british carriers is because of their comparatively poor performance during WW2. IIRC the Illustrious class carriers could only carry something like 50ish planes, compared to the IJN's average of 70 some and the USN's 90 some. The british carriers did, however, have armoured flightdecks, a big advantage over the japanese ones, but it is really in the plane selection that the british failed. A lot of their carriers were still equipped with old biplane swordfish torpedo bombers, and although I can't quite remember what their carrier fighters were, I remember that they were nothing comparable to the american F4F and the japanese Zero. And I won't even get into when the corsair came in:D

Comparatively poor performance would presumably include wrecking the Italian fleet at Taranto [an exploit which inspired the Japanese planning for Pearl Harbour], and crippling the Bismarck. Both were done using obsolete Fairey Swordfish biplanes. Ironically, in the Bismarck attacks, their obsolescence contributed to their effectiveness because allegedly the German AA couldn't be set for an aeroplane that slow! Our carriers' armoured flight decks also made them less vulnerable to Kamikaze attacks late in the war so the Americans copied the idea.

I actually think the reason you don't hear so much about British carriers is that their main task was to protect convoys rather than take part in fleet actions. To this end a great many gallant actions were fought in the Atlantic, North Cape and Med where British carrier-borne aircraft took part, but the effects of these actions was incremental instead of being instantly decisive as for example at Midway or Pearl Harbour.

I think you are right about our naval fighters being inferior to the competition, though the Fairey Fulmar did have some success in the Med. We did get a first-rate carrier-borne torpedo bomber late in the war [Fairey Barracuda. which took part in attacks on the Tirpitz], and arguably the Torbeau was the best land-based torpedo plane of WW2.