Best tank for under 20 points......?

[Cpt. John Miller]

Those loveable underdogs, the cheap tank. I'm kinda fond of the Turan but it didn't make the cut.

[Krimsonstarr]

How about exactly 20 pts.? The Hetzer gets my vote, though I do have a soft spot for the M3 Stuart :) :cool:

[Sheppard1972]

M3 Stuart would be my pick as i love this cheap tank. Had some good gaming with it as well. BTW, what up Krimsonstar? ;)

[Cpt. John Miller]

How about exactly 20 pts.? The Hetzer gets my vote, though I do have a soft spot for the M3 Stuart :) :cool:

I purposely made it "less than 20" or else everyone would have just voted for the hetzer. It's a no brainer, with so much bang for your buck.

[Qmark]

Elite Pz4D looks pretty good for the points. T-35 may also have potiential.



And just to be weird, Goliath.

[dictator_wanna_be]

Elite Panzer IV is great... I would of chosen the Stug... but crack shot is pretty tough to beat...

[boersma8]

Elite Panzer IV is great... I would of chosen the Stug... but crack shot is pretty tough to beat...

Exactly! I think it's the only "cheap" tank that stands a good chance of defeating both much heavier tanks and elite infantry alike, thanks to its crack shot. The wirblewind is good against infantry, but is extremely vulnerable against enemy armor. The panzer IV would probably get killed too but then it might be a trade off. The wirblewind would simply be lost when going head to head with almost any enemy tank!

[Cruizin2000]

All in all, the Stuart has the best bang for the buck. The Elite Pnzr IV, in the real world, was more about killing infantry and not armor. Crack Shot makes it a better tank in the game although I'm not a big fan of that SA - it's too easy to kill things. I enjoy that pieces that you use your brains and talents to win - not gimme rolls.

C2000

[Wiking_5]

stuart 1st has the ability to get off two attacks and the stug is second

[spacepope]

I'm very partial to the M3 Stuart. It has served me well in several tournaments, and I have been on the receiving end of it's AI firepower as well. But, the Elite PzIVD is also a good little tank, although it isn't as tough. voted m3 in the end.

[Lettische_Scooterist]

I went with the Elite Mark IVD as well. I like that crack shot SA. The Stug would be my second choice.

My son and I have played quite a few games where the restriction was only units under 20 points(less that 20 points), but no number limit. Lots of fun with light tanks and armored cars! :)

[polish_horsy]

I also like the Carro Armato but only if by "best" you mean best value. Which I'm assuming the Chi-Nu voter was thinking. :)

[Krimsonstarr]

How come nobody is voting for the T-35? :D Piece of junk! :p

http://www.nucleus.com/~richdesn/book.jpg

In regards to the SU-76M I've actually found this to be a pretty good "finisher."

http://www.wizards.com/avalonhill/images/dday_gallery/su76m.jpg

Park it/them in some cover and then take pot-shots at disrupted AFV's. When used in conjunction with an Ammo Dump the SU-76M's potency rises dramatically.

[polish_horsy]

They should have given the T-35 completxity, prone to breakdown, and cost =21. Then it would have been more like reality. As it is the T-35 is actually a decent tank in this game.

[Joisey]

If playing with the Official rules, I picked the Elite Panzer IV. That crack shot, en masse, has won battles for me. While the venerable Stuart would be my second choice, and it is a good infantry killer, it is usually the tank battle that decides the game. When using the Stuart en masse against heavy enemy tanks, I have found it's performance disappointing.

[Qmark]

They should have given the T-35 completxity, prone to breakdown, and cost =21. Then it would have been more like reality. As it is the T-35 is actually a decent tank in this game.So you want the T-35 to be worse? It's already quite awkward as is.

[polish_horsy]

I don't think the T-35 is a bad piece in this game. It could be played badly and die easily but could also do a lot of damage for only 18 points. While it was a terrible WW II wepaon it is not a terrible AA mini piece to use in a game.

[Cruizin2000]

I don't think the T-35 is a bad piece in this game. It could be played badly and die easily but could also do a lot of damage for only 18 points. While it was a terrible WW II wepaon it is not a terrible AA mini piece to use in a game.

Just protect it with infantry close by. Watch it's rear end too.

C2000

[cannonfodder]

I broke the damn rules again. I voted other/Hetzer. I don't think the P4 elite has the staying power to be considered. It's a trade unit, as in "I'll trade you this p4 for your Sherman". As such it isn't that useful to me. The STUG is nice in early war games but doesn't have the umph to stick around and fight.
The Hetzer, hard hitting and with bonus to cover rolls, has only one weakness, it's armour. It's SA helps with that. It's fixed howitzer isn't a disadvantage if you stay at a distance. I voted for it since I almost never use any of the tanks listed on your list.
If I have to vote for an under 20 pointer I'll go with the Flamingo. Flame on makes up for the weak armour and the lack of range.

[Surfer_Sam]

The Renault! I am insulted that it is not on your list

[DooMNaToR]

Krimstarr, after reading your post, I vote for the T35. ;)

I've not tested this tank yet (I have 2 of them), but it doesn't seem to be too bad for an 18pts. Yup it is slow with only 2 at rear defense, but if you protect it with infantry, as Cruizin2000 wrote, it could be a good tank.

[General_Blitzkrieg]

EPIV hands down. With crack shot it can take on armor, infantry and aircraft. I think though that the hetzer and sherman might have gotten a nod with just a couple more points to play with :)

[Kaufschtick]

That's a tough choice between the Stuart and the E Pnzr IV. I went E Pnzr IV just because of the "crack shot" SA. It makes the E Pnzr IV a danger to armor more so than the Stuarts 37mm, IMHO.

[fifleche]

EPIVD hands down. I mean, this thing is compared to the Sherman :eek:

I rest my case!

[boersma8]

They should have given the T-35 completxity, prone to breakdown, and cost =21. Then it would have been more like reality. As it is the T-35 is actually a decent tank in this game.

Agreed! It's very good against infantry, even from medium range, when many infantry can't hurt it in return....

[horacus]

Elite Panzer IV is great... I would of chosen the Stug... but crack shot is pretty tough to beat...

Exactly. You can send two ELites in suicide mission against a croc, and expect to have one surviving, while the Croc will be death. I has worked for me. Two disruptions in the same turn. Those buggers are pretty damn good.

[horacus]

The Renault! I am insulted that it is not on your list

Maybie because there are more important things than that damn 9 point only usefull in 1940 scenario tank? It is included in "Other Options" has the Carro Armato.

[wkko]

Seems not much people Like Valentine II like me

[Rick]

I voted for the M3 Stuart, but it was a close call for me between that and the Elite Pzr. IV. Plus one per die is sweet, and it beats the Stuart with its AT stats.

But, where the Stuart excels in the game is with it's speed and it's double shot. Two attacks per turn is very nice. It can out manouver most tanks, getting behind them or behind cover. My opponent must take it as a serious threat to his mortars, not to mention that it has enough fire power to be a threat to many of Germany's finest tanks. Just consider how many German tanks have a 4 or lower rear defense. [SS Panther G, SS Panzer IV F, Panzer IV G, Elite Panzer IV D, Panzer III, Panzer II, ALL the German Tank Destroyers, ALL Italian tanks, ALL Japanese tanks.]

The Elite Panzer IV may be better against tanks in its AT, but the M3 Stuart is the better all around threat to my opponent.

[Kaufschtick]

But, where the Stuart excels in the game is with it's speed and it's double shot. Two attacks per turn is very nice.


Yes, the speed is nice. As far as the two attacks per turn, one of them has to be against soldiers and so it still only gets one shot max against vehicles. That leaves this tank as fairly weak in the AV department. Against soldiers, it's great.

[Malaky]

M3 stuart for me. I played a game US and UK versus Japan last friday. 150 US + 150 UK vs 300 Japs. It started to be a good battle with 3 of my paras in a central forest backed up by their major ( hero) getting shot at by some japs comming out of the bigger forest in front of them. My OOB was something like:

Inspiring Hero, 2 vickers MG, 4 Ghurkas, 2 SMLE, 3 paras, Inspiring Lieutenant and 3 M3 Stuart.

One squad of infantry battled in a city on the right side of the map while the paras were desperatly trying to hold the center of the map. Reinforcement came to them by the way of 3 Stuarts :p . Japanese infantry continued to pour out of the forest and two machine guns opened fire on the boys. Fanatics were headed their way and they couldn't let them close in. The americans on the left (west) side had difficulty taking the other objective in the small village. They came underfire by 3 japanese tanks but in the end finally came to relieve some pressure on the UK troops.

So back to the main discussion :p

The stuart is awesome when facing infantry. You can usually get 2 shots at soldiers and mop the place pretty quickly. It has about the same stats at medium and long range as a Vickers MG but it is a lot harder to take down.

Alright, Malaky out.

[DarkMercy]

Seems not much people Like Valentine II like me

I love the Valentine II. I usually build my Commonwealth forces around a few of thes in North Africa games.

[Lotus]

Stuart. Cheap, additional shot on infantry, 4/3 Def...and fast.
That got my vote over the Elite PZIV, which was my second choice.

In the case of the Elite, I'll say this: It makes planes think twice about attacking in their vicinity. That's a plus in their favor, but they're still second in my book.

[lubomirvaic]

T-35!!! Fun, fun tank to play with. I love it's attack rolls. Your opponent has to watch out for it all the time. Mind you, you also have to watch out for your opponent, but it's fun to play with.

[Richter von Manthofen]

The Stuart beats the Pz IV. I can remember a discussion (while only set I was out) where everybody seemed to agree that this baby was not worth fielding...

[Rick]

Yes, the speed is nice. As far as the two attacks per turn, one of them has to be against soldiers and so it still only gets one shot max against vehicles. That leaves this tank as fairly weak in the AV department. Against soldiers, it's great.

Because of its speed, you should be able to move it for a rear shot against armor. Most of the German armor is a 3 or 4 rear defense. The close range attacks for the Stuart are 9 at 0-1 and 7 for 2-4. Those are numbers too high for your opponent to ignore. 9 die to a 3 defense is a killer.

[General_Blitzkrieg]

The Stuart beats the Pz IV. I can remember a discussion (while only set I was out) where everybody seemed to agree that this baby was not worth fielding...

There are units like this in every set....sleeper units nobody notices until they start getting whacked by them on a continual basis. The Stuart and the EPIV are both great tanks and are probably the best for their points for each side...and, yes, I put these two tanks in the same class as the sherman based on point to usefulness ratio. I know, around here the sherman is god-on-a-stick but there are other units in its class. Just food for thought.

[Cpt. John Miller]

Before this poll I did "best tank for 30 points or less" excluding T-34, Vet Rhino, and M4A1. The results were very even across the board. Many people liked the calliope, brummbar, avre, pzIV G, etc. No one or two units dominated that poll.
I am surprised that this subsequent is so much more partisan. Do you love the Elite Panzer or the Stuart?
Maybe I should repost this poll excluding these two obvious choices.
In fact I think I will.

[Patton 68]

I voted other,because I love my PzIIIF's.No doubt there are better tanks on this list,but I am endlessly amazed by how useful the smoke SA has been for me,and I try to include one in every German build I field.Understand that I play casually(and not often enough) against a couple of friends who I've managed to bring into the game.If I were in a tournament,I'd probably use a couple EP4s instead.

[Richter von Manthofen]

I am not surprised that the EP IV won as I rate that baby almost equal to the basic Sherman which is still the most cost efficient tank out here.