Japan tactics?

[Vikingwarrior]

If you are Japan what is your stratedgy for taking out a Sherman?

I don't know if there is a Japanese unit capable of doing that. Close assault is only a six which only gives you about a 33% chance of disruption.

[polish_horsy]

Bonzai!

(and pray)

[Surfer_Sam]

Bonzai!

(and pray)

EN MASSE!!!

[TheCygnysGuardian]

Praying for a kaiju attack always works for me...

[Eisenheim]

bring 2 ho ni's

[polish_horsy]

or...

Ho-Ni
Bonzai
repeat

[Colonel_Coo]

Four Ho-Ni's!
2 Sergent
1 HBH
2 Fanatic
The rest in Arisaka's!

[carl_brisgamer]

Last weekend I killed two Shermans with one Honour Bound Hero backed up by an Imperial Sgt. Prior to that I destroyed a Sherman with a frontal shot by a 47mm ATG, but I did get lucky with that one.

So much depends on how you use the terrain to limit the exposure of your infantry to the M4's excellent AI attacks.

[Predator666]

Banzai!!!!

I love that ability. I was able to banzai 4 marines with 4 arisakas and 2 Imp. sergeants backing them. It was a forest over a group of forest hexes on a custom map and even with defensive fire the rolls from the Marines were horrible. The Arisakas each got a kill and the Marines retaliated....Some of the worst rolls I've seen. Not a single Marine made a successful attack.

So Banzai your cheap Arisakas into a shermans hex and destroy him with repeated attacks. If you can disrupt it and live to repeat the attack, move out of the hex and then move back in during assault through banzai.

[RaidingParty]

1 Sherman = 21 points
1 Ha-Go + 1 Ho-Ni = 21 points

With the Ha-Go/Ho-Ni combo, you can flank a single Sherman and hopefully destroy him before he destroys both of yours. All bets are off if there's more than one Sherman.

[Wiking_5]

die rolls must be good and hit hard and fast

[Captain_Blackadder]

I myself have not fielded an honorable japanese army yet and doubt I will as I traded them all away for some needed armour and a 2nd p-38 lightning.BUT I will say the Arikasa rifleman seems to be the most deadly thing in close combat in the game even more so if banzai charged :eek: it is a pity I only ever got one of them LOL

On the flip side of the coin the best method I have found for taking out a sherman is a yummy Jagtiger at close range....the kinda blow up nicely :D

[wkko]

Tora! Tora! Tora!

[cannonfodder]

If at all possible use terrain to block LOS from the Sherman to as many of your units as possible. Also, build infantry heavy, very heavy. This will limit the damage the Sherman can do. Use tanktraps to slow him down.
The best idea is to modify your maps so that they represent forest/jungle terrain. This means the Sherman (all bets are off if it's a Rhino) has to make movement rolls pretty much every turn. This makes it easier to avoid.
I have found that any time you are facing armour you can't kill you should do your best to avoid it rather than wasting precious resources trying to kill the (basically) unkillable. This applies when facing monster German tanks too.

[Vikingwarrior]

How does this build look for Japan? I'm a little leary about adding the zero but I'm thinking in a jungle scenario the zero can move quickly to any unit that is in the open.

4xArisaka Rifle
1xImperial Sergeant
1xType 92 Machine Gun Team
3xSNLF Paratrooper
1xType 1 Ho-Ni
1xType 97 Chi-Ha
1xMitsubishi A6M Zero
2xSNLF Fanatic
1xHonor Bound Hero

[Rick]

How does this build look for Japan? I'm a little leary about adding the zero but I'm thinking in a jungle scenario the zero can move quickly to any unit that is in the open.

4xArisaka Rifle
1xImperial Sergeant
1xType 92 Machine Gun Team
3xSNLF Paratrooper
1xType 1 Ho-Ni
1xType 97 Chi-Ha
1xMitsubishi A6M Zero
2xSNLF Fanatic
1xHonor Bound Hero

Gosh, it's been a LONG time since I've played a Japanese army. But, this is perhaps about as balanced as you can get. If possible, try and have your opponent agree to some terrain changes such as making clear hexes jungle hexes and wood, pond, & hill hexes become 'clear'. That way, you are playing something that is more accurate to the situation that the Japanese & Allies actually fought.

But, as I've said before in other posts, I've never won as Japan with the basic rules as they currently stand. Allied armor is too powerful both in AT and in base defense. Allied air trumps the Zero. Yes, Japan has some of the best infantry in the game, but they do no good if they are killed at range before they can close for hand to hand. Stuarts, Vickers, Mortars, Quad 50's genearlly have taken the Japanese infantry and introduced them to Hell's gates quicker than St. Peter could count them!

[FSSF]

How does this build look for Japan? I'm a little leary about adding the zero but I'm thinking in a jungle scenario the zero can move quickly to any unit that is in the open.

4xArisaka Rifle
1xImperial Sergeant
1xType 92 Machine Gun Team
3xSNLF Paratrooper
1xType 1 Ho-Ni
1xType 97 Chi-Ha
1xMitsubishi A6M Zero
2xSNLF Fanatic
1xHonor Bound Hero

Not bad at all!
A lot of variety and options.

Japan's best units are still the SNLF Fanatics (Honor Bound Hero is better but as a certain Highlander used to say: there can be only one). The games where I had the most success with Japan are games where I played as many of them as I could field.

The Mitsubishi A6M Zero and SNLF Paratroopers are basically units that will do the same thing: harass and slow down enemy advance, take out Ammo Dump/sniper/mortar/and other support units). 27 points of these is a bit much in a 100 points army. Also the Zero is mostly a cheap, one shot deal since it is so fragile it will, most of the time, be good for one kamizaze attack before it is shot down. Even basic soldiers can take it out. For 4 points more, the Kawanishi NIK-J ''Shiden-Kai'' is a much better plane. The +1/+1 defense is a big difference; you also get a +1 attack at short range which is also a big difference when you add the very synergic ''Agility'' SA which will give the Shiden-Kai a bit of an edge against most other planes.

I really don't like the Type 92 Machine Gun Team. It's about the lousiest MG team in the game right now. For two more points you can get the much better Type 89 Mortar which is the best long range anti-infantry Japan has got. I've seen it take out SE paratroopers and other 5/5 defense elite soldiers. If you can afford to bring in a SNLF Captain in the mix, Pinpointer + Seasoned Crew almost remove cover as an option. The only advantage the MG has got over the mortar is that it can substitute as a poor man's AA gun; but if you have a Shiden-Kai, you don't have to rely on that flimsy option.

The Chi-Ha is not the best choice of tank.

[Vikingwarrior]

I agree it is not the best army however to have a limit of 100 points makes it very difficult. I like the double shot on the Machine gun and it is only 7 pts. The Chi-Ha although not the best tank it does give me options and in a jungle setting I can place it in the woods and wait for the surprise attack.

Following your suggestions I would have an army looking something more like this:

3xArisaka Rifle
1xImperial Sergeant
1xType 89 Mortar
1xSNLF Captain
1xSNLF Paratrooper
2xType 1 Ho-Ni
2xSNLF Fanatic
1xHonor Bound Hero
1xKawanishi NIK-J "Shiden-Kai"

the negatives to this army, as I see them are:
1) there are only 13 units. Japan needs to maximize units
2) In a 100 point game 15 points on the mortar and capt. is alot even if it does pretty much eliminate cover. It still only gets 7 inaccurate die at up to 8 hexes. For that I could have the machine gun team w/double shot, an Arisaka and a Para. More options, more units, more fire power.
3) the Ho Ni is a better AT tank then the Chi Ha, however it limits your options since it has no AI. You could choose the Chi Nu however that is an additional 6 points, thereby eliminating more units, and you have to deal with ferocity which is a pain in the a**.
4) Now you are limited to 2 units that can harass the enemy deep. The NIK-J and the Para. You better be rolling well.

All in all not a bad army but only having 13 units instead of 15 would worry me.

[Colonel_Coo]

How does this build look for Japan? I'm a little leary about adding the zero but I'm thinking in a jungle scenario the zero can move quickly to any unit that is in the open.

4xArisaka Rifle
1xImperial Sergeant
1xType 92 Machine Gun Team
3xSNLF Paratrooper
1xType 1 Ho-Ni
1xType 97 Chi-Ha
1xMitsubishi A6M Zero
2xSNLF Fanatic
1xHonor Bound Hero

No ZERO's or 2+. One zero will get shot down on the first placement and not guarentee a kill against anything. Two ZERO's will kill an enemy aircraft (typically costing 20 points).

Ho-Ni's are very difficult to use properly. 1 will never get a shot off against an enemy tank unless it is at the enemy tanks advantage. Once again I recommend 0 or 2+.

Paratroopers are not tough enough to stand on their own. They are good for attacking enemy bofors and 82mm but you'll only need 2 to get the job done.

The Japanese Sgt will be targeted quickly, so get 0 or 2 but not 1. If you go with none, choose the HARDCHARGER Fanatic.

[muttonjavelin]

I have not fielded a Japanese force yet. Is the Mortar worth taking in a 100 point game?

[Vikingwarrior]

I agree multiple units for the units you mentioned would be nice however a 100 pt. build really limits you. I can see taking out one of the paras.

See if you like this one better:

4xArisaka Rifle
2xImperial Sergeant
1xType 89 Mortar
1xSNLF Captain
2xSNLF Paratrooper
2xType 1 Ho-Ni
2xSNLF Fanatic
1xHonor Bound Hero

[Colonel_Coo]

I have not fielded a Japanese force yet. Is the Mortar worth taking in a 100 point game?

yes, and so is the sniper. that head-hunter (ie. Shoot the officers first) is awesome!

The mortar's defense gets it killed fairly quickly because most people try to push him forward too soon. An enemy machine gun kills him quick, while enemy heavies (5/5) really don't do jack. Pushing a line of SNLF Fanatics forward with a Mortar and Sniper backing them up is just great fun!

[Predator666]

I also enjoy the sniper. While most people don't think its that useful it can help to weaken your entire enemy force by destroying their strategy of using a commander to either rapidly move a force or to help cover an advancing enemy.

[FSSF]

the negatives to this army, as I see them are:
1) there are only 13 units. Japan needs to maximize units
2) In a 100 point game 15 points on the mortar and capt. is alot even if it does pretty much eliminate cover. It still only gets 7 inaccurate die at up to 8 hexes. For that I could have the machine gun team w/double shot, an Arisaka and a Para. More options, more units, more fire power.
3) the Ho Ni is a better AT tank then the Chi Ha, however it limits your options since it has no AI. You could choose the Chi Nu however that is an additional 6 points, thereby eliminating more units, and you have to deal with ferocity which is a pain in the a**.
4) Now you are limited to 2 units that can harass the enemy deep. The NIK-J and the Para. You better be rolling well.

All in all not a bad army but only having 13 units instead of 15 would worry me.

Maximizing at 15 units is very nice, but sometimes it is better to have 13 very good units than 15 units that includes a few lame horses. I prefer to have a single SNLF Fanatic than 2 x Arisakas. Why? Because SNFL are not easy to take out, have Hard Charger and better attack numbers. In a game where I played Japan against a US/UK mix, I lost almost all my units except not a single one of my 4 SNLF Fanatics died. One or two was disrupted at some point in the game, but they held their ground. Yes, as Stalin said, Quantity is a Quality in it's own (or something like that), but wise selection of units is an important tool in army building. Anyway, getting to 15 units in a Japanese army is not that hard really as they are no unit that costs more than 18 points.

About the Type 89 Mortar vs Type 92 MG Team, lets compare...

The Type 89 Mortar
It costs two more points than the Type 92 MG.
Not a big deal, Japan has no units over 18 points cost. You can afford to spend an extra 2 pts for one or two units.

It's only 3/3 defense vs 4/4 for the MG.
This is the worst. I don't see why a Flamethrower can have a 4/4 defense but a mortar is only 3/3? But that's for another debate. This is the Mortar worst attribute. Nothing to add.

Innacurate 1! Yes but you also get Shrapnel 2 which gives you a better chance to take out even 5/5 units. You only need 3 hits to do this. 2 hits will disrupt a 4/4 defense and kill 3/3 units like artillery, spotters, etc.
Even with Double Shot, your chances of taking out a 5/5 with the Type 92 MG at any range other than short are pretty low.

Bad attack at short range. Yes, the MG is better at short range even more so with Double Shot. But you have to ask yourself, why do you need a support weapon (which both units are) ? Does Japan really need another good unit at close range? No. You need something that will take out enemy support units (at long range) that are shooting up your Hand to Hand units while they are crawling up to engage them. At short range, you are better off with a SNFL Fanatic for the 7 points the Japanese MG will cost you.

Finally, there is nothing more annoying than getting the right numbers on the dices to take out that pesky eneny unit and seing it stay on the map because of cover rolls. Remember that a lot of units you will be trying to hit at long range (most support units anyway) will have cover. Seasoned Crew is a very nice SA. In combo with the SNFL Captain's Pinpointer it just gets so much better, but even on it's own, it's a welcomed bonus.

I've never seen a Type 92 MG take out anything significant on a map.
I've seen the Type 89 Mortar take out elite 5/5 soldiers, even when they had cover.

Just my two cents worth of opinion.

[Predator666]

I don't love, but I don't hate the ***. MG. I used them in a game on a custom board. It held a dominating hill on its own disrupting and killing marines at mostly long range, occasionally medium when they got close enough. It was a great unit in that game but the rest of the ones I had did die without doing much. The mortar would have been a better piece for that situation though.

[Colonel_Coo]

My Japan build is either a bunch of Ho-Ni's or none. If I go none, then the Arisaka/Sergents with SNLF fanatics have to be set up for a three-pronged attack.

I generally stay away from the ZERO unless we're playing Fighter Patrol rules or the additional -1 on the attack optional rules. Then the ZERO is awesome at keeping the P-38's and Corsairs away for their lower point cost.

I generally don't play less than 4 Ho-Ni's and in 150 point games, I have fielded 6 of them. I iether go all-out or none at all. See the Zero statement above. Personally, outside of the 150 point game, I generally stay away from the Tanks and Airplanes of Japan. I have not played with more than 1 Shiden yet (I recently received my second via a trade).

I love the mortar but my opponent loves killing him. It is the first target by aircraft or 82mm mortars.

Since the 82mm mortars I have taken a strong interest in the SNLF paratroopers. 2 generally are enough to get the work done.

So, try out a
2 SNLF Para's (drop on rear threat)
2 Sergents
1 HBH
3 SNLF fanatics and the rest
Arisaka's. When you run out of men before you run out of points adjust your Rifles into a Sniper and then a Mortar.

[scootmanfromhell]

At our local game store where we play every week... hardly nobody ever and I mean EVER plays the Japanese. So every now and then I like to throw a small army together to have on hand for those 100 point games.

I always had decent luck with this one.

6 - SNLF Fanatics 42 points
1 - Imperial Sergeant 9 points
2 - Mitsubishi A6M Zeros 24 points
2 - Type I Ho-Ni 24 points

I believe that's sitting there at 99 points. This build is pretty fun.

[FSSF]

I like your ideas about Japan army building Colonel Coo.
Now that we have the Shiden-Kai, it might be more versatile than either MG or mortar to take out enemy mortars, snipers and support unit. Plus, since Japan doesn't have any AA artillery, planes are the only alternative to take out enemy fighters targetting the Imperial Sergeants.
As soon as I get my second Shiden-Kai, I will try out:

2 x Kawanishi NIK-J Shiden-Kai (32pts.)
2 x SNLF Paratroopers (10 pts.)
2 x Imperial Sergeant (18 pts.)
3 x SNLF Fanatics (21 pts.)
4 x Arisaka Rifle (12 pts.)
14 units for 100 pts.

[Colonel_Coo]

I like your ideas about Japan army building Colonel Coo.
Now that we have the Shiden-Kai, it might be more versatile than either MG or mortar to take out enemy mortars, snipers and support unit. Plus, since Japan doesn't have any AA artillery, planes are the only alternative to take out enemy fighters targetting the Imperial Sergeants.
As soon as I get my second Shiden-Kai, I will try out:

2 x Kawanishi NIK-J Shiden-Kai (32pts.)
2 x SNLF Paratroopers (10 pts.)
2 x Imperial Sergeant (18 pts.)
3 x SNLF Fanatics (21 pts.)
4 x Arisaka Rifle (12 pts.)
14 units for 100 pts.

It will work. Don't be in a hurry with the Japanese and you should do okay. Trade one of the Fanatics for a Honor Bound Hero. That allows a Rifle or Paratrooper to spawn a 5/5 where ever it is needed.

For 16 points, I can see a downgrade of 1 Shiden-Kai to a standard Zero. That will free up 4 points. You can also trade out both Shiden-Kai for Zero's and free up 8 points.
With 4 points you get to upgrade a Rifle to a Fanatic or you get to add a Rifle and buy a tank obsticle or upgrade a Rifle to Paratrooper and buy a Minefield.

For 8 points, you could add a sniper.

However, I do like the idea of using two Shiden for anti-Corsair and anti-Mortar duty.

[Vikingwarrior]

In a build like that there is vertually no AT. How would you take out a sherman with a build like that or god forbid your opponent has two shermans?

US build:
M4A1
Quad 50
M1 81mm mortar
infantry

I think Japan would be very hard pressed to deal with that.

[Colonel_Coo]

In a build like that there is vertually no AT. How would you take out a sherman with a build like that or god forbid your opponent has two shermans?

US build:
M4A1
Quad 50
M1 81mm mortar
infantry

I think Japan would be very hard pressed to deal with that.

That is a pretty straight forward fight. With limited firepower of a M4A1 and a rear defense of 4 (no blast, no bombardment, no rockets!) you press against other attacks. Only 1 map doesn't allow the Japanese to assualt with Cover. The Quad 50 is tough to move at Relocate 2 while the 81 mm is very succeptable to SNLF Paratroopers with an additional Hero Spawn. Both SNLF move forward during combat to get adjacent to the enemy. The Hero spawns and close assualt the enemy Mortar/Quad. Hand to hand 10 kills everything.

The big trick is to avoid getting BOTH Sergents killed. On about turn 5 the Japanese two prongs will be converging. One Sergent can Banzaii a LOT of Japanese. With defensive fire against your troops in the open, the enemy is going to get at least 1 Rifle into their hex. The Arisaka's have hand to hand 12. Even disrutped in hex they are deadly. The close assualt 6 kills shermans on Bazaii attacks.

The Fanatics have HARDCharger and hand to hand 12. CA6. They survive a lot of medium range attacks only to NOT BE STOPPED at close range.

[Vikingwarrior]

Sounds good but here is the rest of the build.
1xJeep
1xM4A1 Sherman
1xRed Devil Captain
2x"Screaming Eagle" Paratrooper
4xMarine Riflemen
1xQuad 50
1xM1 81mm Mortar
3xThompson Gunner

you hang back for the first few turns and let the 81 rip up infantry, you keep the thompsons close to the quad and 81 for defense 10, +1 on dice. Let the paras and marines with the sherman do their thing. OUCH.

[Colonel_Coo]

I would be very happy to kill that build. The Paratroopers are NOT a threat against the Japanese. The Japanese have the BEST Soldiers in the game.

So are you asking me how I would fight this build? I would say with GLEE!

THe Jeep is an easy 4 point kill. The Para's are 18 points of wasted firepower because the Japanese will stay in a fighting group (2 of them actually). For 18 points you'll need to kill that many Japanese. That's a Fanatic, the Sergent and 1 rifles at the same time. That is not going to happen.

Keeping anythig near the 10 point 50 quad is fine by me. I'll play the turn 7 win while your team sits back and taunts me from a far. I don't have to kill everything you own. I just have to kill everything on the objective on turn 7.

By clumping the Quad near the 81mm mortar with the Thompson, you'll protect it, but you won't contest the objective. SO far that is 8 units that I don't have to deal with. By clumping you also free up my SNLF Paratroopers to deal with the fight and the HBH.

It is not the US that gives the Japanese a NO-WIN condition. It is the Russians. The Russians with their 6/6 defense tank with Cossack Captain. The Russians with their own 3pt killing machine PSsH gunner. Remember the Japanese WANT to get close. So does the PSsH. But the PSsh has great attack dice and only cost 3. Advantage: Russia.

[Colonel_Coo]

Zero Zero build:
Ho-Ni x 2. 24 points.
Chi Ha x1. 12 points.
Imp Sergent x 2 18 point
Honor Bound Hero x 1 7 points
SNLF Fantastics x 3 21 points
Arisaka Rifles x 6 18 points.

Double Zero Build: just converts the Chi Ha and 1 Ho-Ni into two Zero's.

In both cases, you'll have two assualt teams putting pressure from two angles:
The teams are
Imperial Sergent, 2 SNLF Fanatics, 3 Arisaka Rifles.
Imperial Sergent, 1 SNLF Fanatic, 1 Honor Bound Hero, 3 Arisaka Rifles.

In these builds, the Fanatics generally are IGNORED while the weaker targets are chewed up. Don't expect any Rifles to live. They won't. However, the Fanatics are KILLING MACHINES without any Sergent. Just keep one sergent alive so that on turn 7 he can Banzaii and kill the last remaining enemy that can contest the objective.

When facing heavy armor, the HBH has to be placed properly or you will lose. He is the only chance to kill a KV-1 by Banzaii CA8. Low chance to be sure, but once disrutped the KV-1 will be dead in about 2 turns.

Again, RUSSIA Heavy Armor builds is why I rarely play Japan. Not the US or UK. IMHO UK offers more threat with their AVRE's Blast/Bombardment AI 12 dice and 6 freaking defense.

[Colonel_Coo]

Deep threats: commit 10 points. Even if they both get killed, a dead Ammo dump or 81mm mortar is worth the trade-off

SNLF Paratrooper x2

Wild Card:
Type 89 Mortar x1
Imperial Sniper x 1

Flank Assualt team Alpha & Bravo (each team identical)
Imperial Sergent x1
Arisaka Rifles x1
SNLF Fanatic x2

Center Strike team
SNLF Fanatic x2
Honor Bound Hero x1


That's 7 units with 5 defense. 2 officers, 2 para's, a sniper, a mortar and 2 standard rifles.

[FSSF]

It will work. Don't be in a hurry with the Japanese and you should do okay. Trade one of the Fanatics for a Honor Bound Hero. That allows a Rifle or Paratrooper to spawn a 5/5 where ever it is needed.

For 16 points, I can see a downgrade of 1 Shiden-Kai to a standard Zero. That will free up 4 points. You can also trade out both Shiden-Kai for Zero's and free up 8 points.
With 4 points you get to upgrade a Rifle to a Fanatic or you get to add a Rifle and buy a tank obsticle or upgrade a Rifle to Paratrooper and buy a Minefield.

For 8 points, you could add a sniper.

However, I do like the idea of using two Shiden for anti-Corsair and anti-Mortar duty.

Actually a Honor-Bound Hero is included in this army. I just forgot to write him up. If you count the points, it's missing 7 points.

[Colonel_Coo]

Actually a Honor-Bound Hero is included in this army. I just forgot to write him up. If you count the points, it's missing 7 points.


Even better!:)

I like japan except against 6 rear defense armor. Hmm, that's a KV-1, AVRE, Croc, Easy 8.
Unfortunetly, 3 of the 4 are very common allied builds.