US war entry

[NMRALPH]

I have a question for you guys. I AAP I find that since America gets so much money it takes the thrill out of the game so I was thinking of a way to slow Americas entry into the war, while also makeing Japan want attack america befoer that to gt a knock out punch. Needless to say there would be no VP victory.
First I was thinking that America can not enter the war till Japan attacks. This would let Japan earn some money so they can be ready to take on the Americans.
Now before Japan attacks america I was thinking that the Americans started with a small amount of money that slowly built up over time and then when it reached 75 a turn the USA can declear war. For example on t1 they get 10 on t2 20 on t3 30 and so on this way Japan wouldn't have all day to take out India and Austriala.
I was thinking Japan could not move forces into any areas that have Amercian forces, it they did it is an act of war.
And finally I was thinking of putting a limit on what America can build and were they can deploy stuff. I was thinking maybe 2/3 of thier battleships must be stationed in Parl Harbor and 1/3 of the remiander station in west coast USA.

Anyone have any thoughts or even better rules to add

[plasticman]

I think that's a cool idea. It may be important to note (for historical accuracy) that the Americans just about doubled their economic production as a result of the war (as you probably know they were in depression before that). So maybe instead of making it 10 and up make it constant at 37 or 38, and then when war starts have the economy build up to 75 (it took some time, after all). Plus, Japan should still be allowed to attack China (as they historically did without American intervention).

I guess that would change the dynamics a lot, and perhaps ruin the fun of the game altogether. But that's the problems with making historical accuracy: It sometimes has the effect of ruining the fun. But if you can somehow make it balanced, that would be great, and I would happily use your new historical accuracy rules.

[Frog]

I find Pacific easy to “adjust” or “tinker” with to change the game. If you read some of the post in this forum you will see many ideas on how to make alterations. The one you talking about with America is fairly common and I have seen many ideas.

1) You can give Japan Extra income each turn they don’t attack the U.S.
2) Give Japan 5 Ipc for each American Territory they could attack on J1, then take 5 back for each actually attacked. Another words American outrage is more depending on how many places are attacked.
3) Start America at 1o IPC’s , Add 10 Ipc’s to Americas production each round.
4) Take Americas IC off of Hawaii.

Of course Japan has the advantage in the game, so VP would be out of the question or raised considerably.

Let us know what you do and how you like it.

[Krieghund]

I think that if you do this Australia will have a very hard time staying alive, since the US will be unable to help protect it much.

[Frog]

I agree.

I have never played with altered rules for the United States. Just listing some options I've seen before.

[Krieghund]

NMRALPH,

This isn't exactly along the lines of what you're talking about, but it does make for an interesting game with minimal rules changes:

1. Count the Japanese victory points at the end of the US' turn (that way Japan has to take and hold a territory to get credit).
2. Japan can win only on victory points - not on capital capture.
3. No substalling allowed (attacking subs must fight one round before submerging).
4. Repair damaged battleships at the end of the US' turn, not the end of each turn (gives the UK a little more punch).
5. Kamikaze may not be used until "activated" - they are activated on the first turn Japan collects less than 30 IPCs of income (this makes them more of a game-saving "desperation weapon" than an advantage for Japan).

These rules make for a more active game - more small battles.

[Sinister]

Once again another add for my rule revisions posted in another thread.

Rule Changes:

1. US makes 25 not 55 for mainland us. They may lend lease 12 IPCs a turn.

2. Do away with victory points, play for VCs.

That's it. Quick easy change.

[CanucKev]

Sorry - lend lease? What's that and how does it work?

[SkyPilot]

5. Kamikaze may not be used until "activated" - they are activated on the first turn Japan collects less than 30 IPCs of income (this makes them more of a game-saving "desperation weapon" than an advantage for Japan).

All great ideas in this thread. This one in particular caught my attention. When we first played AAP (years ago) we thought Kamikaze use from the start of the game and as an advantage was odd. Though 30 IPCs seems high, the general idea behind "activation" makes perfect sense. Out of curiosity, anyone know the date when the first Kamikaze was launched?

[GROGnads]

It was during the 'Battle of Midway' when an American Pilot attempted to crash his flaming plane into one of the Japanese Carriers! Them damm sneaky Japanese 'copied' this 'tactic' later on, once again displaying their lack of 'imagination' during the WAR!:eek:

[GROGnads]

Sorry - lend lease? What's that and how does it work?The U.S. player is allowed to GIVE either the India/U.K. player or the Australian player up to 12 I.P.s from HIS 'funds'! I believe that it could even be split up between them as long as it doesn't exceed 12 I.P.s in total. This is in addition to what they would normally receive from their own sources and could greatly enhance their chances during the game. Mssr. Sinister even created an entire Variant for use in place of the regular 'Victory Conditions' in which you would agree to pick out 'Victory Cities' before the game begins. Some of them are already considered to BE 'V.C.'s such as the ones with the Industrial Complexes in them, except for Hawaii, but it could be chosen for such.

[Krieghund]

All great ideas in this thread. This one in particular caught my attention. When we first played AAP (years ago) we thought Kamikaze use from the start of the game and as an advantage was odd. Though 30 IPCs seems high, the general idea behind "activation" makes perfect sense. Out of curiosity, anyone know the date when the first Kamikaze was launched?

Thanks, SkyPilot. I considered making 25 IPCs the activation level, but settled on 30 since less than 30 also means less than 3 victory points. I didn't want to limit the kamikaze too much. I just didn't like the idea of Japan being able to leave the home islands practically undefended, relying on kamikaze to destroy enemy transports, while they were trouncing India.

[Caractacus]

Wow, the US down to 25 IPCs from the mainland! That's a great first step to repairing the IPC imbalances that would allow Pacific and Europe to be played back-to-back. (Most of the problems, of course, being that IPCs are easier to come by on the Pacific board, making things cheaper there, comparitively speaking).

I think I might try this idea, plus the lend/lease...

So US income in total is (IIRC) 48?

Interesting...

[GROGnads]

Actually it is:
At Start U.S.A. = 75
Mainland U.S. = 55 minus 30 = 25
75 minus 30 = 45 now.
45 is U.S. 'At Start' Income for this Variant.
I'd even advocate that the U.S. increases it's 'Mainland Value' of I.P.s by '5' per Turn to better reflect it's 'industrialization' as the War progressed.

[Caractacus]

Thanks for the info, GROGnads - I was in the office when I wrote and couldn't quite remember the stats. (For some reason my browser was acting up and it couldn't even find any other pages to allow me to check, for instance, Thrasher's site to get the figures from there).

Have you tried to run the two theatre games back to back, and if so, what did you do about IPC distibution in order to avoid Australia outproducing the reasonably industrialised and more heavily populated Czechoslovakia by about 8:1?


(BTW, except when you mean IT IS, one shouldn't write IT'S, but ITS).

[Doctor Strategy]

All great ideas in this thread. This one in particular caught my attention. When we first played AAP (years ago) we thought Kamikaze use from the start of the game and as an advantage was odd. Though 30 IPCs seems high, the general idea behind "activation" makes perfect sense. Out of curiosity, anyone know the date when the first Kamikaze was launched?

Sky Pilot, here is some info on kamikazes.

* Battle of Okinawa (April-June 1945) - Okinawa was close enough to Japan for U.S. B-29s to bomb Japan so it was strategically important
- Japanese began their kamikaze strategy at Okinawa- suicide missions and fight to the death
-U.S. lost 33 ships at Okinawa and 350 more were damaged

[Moderator Sinister]

I thought kamis were first used at Leyette Gulf in 44. I wrote a paper on it in college and if new evidence comes to light about their first use please tell me. I'm always intrested in things like that.

As for the varient I made, I like it alot. VPs were a way a creating an A&A game that would end in 3 hours max. I like the game to last longer with good players and be a little more strategic. The -25 IPCs still give the US a good production number in the pacific but two things occur:

1. The Japanese player gets a little longer to "Expand the Empire"

2. Now that the Japanese player is playing for Victory Cities they take a more strategic approach to the game instead of grabbing land for quick VPs. In essence the game changes from "cashing out" before the US arrives to real pacific warfare.

I added the lend lense rather relunctantly but felt it was necessary to give India a fighting chance until the US could mobilize.

[Moderator Sinister]

Actually it is:
At Start U.S.A. = 75
Mainland U.S. = 55 minus 30 = 25
75 minus 30 = 45 now.
45 is U.S. 'At Start' Income for this Variant.
I'd even advocate that the U.S. increases it's 'Mainland Value' of I.P.s by '5' per Turn to better reflect it's 'industrialization' as the War progressed.


I like this idea but I think it's too much under the current varient rules for the Japanese to stand a chance. With that said however, perhaps you throw out lend lease and play this way. Of course you'll need to hope and pray for India.

[holywolfman]

I thought kamis were first used at Leyette Gulf in 44. I wrote a paper on it in college and if new evidence comes to light about their first use please tell me. I'm always intrested in things like that.




..No Sinister.....my good buddie: YOU ARE RIGHT!- :D It was around Oct. 1944!

Here is a brief article:

http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/text/x19/xm1943.html

[Doctor Strategy]

It seems you are right about the first attack Holywolfman and Sinister. The majority of those attacks came at Okinawa. The attacks at Okinawa were deliberate compared to those at Leyte. Sorry for the confusion.

The first attacks
It seems that the first kamikaze attack was not carried out by Tamai's unit. On October 21, 1944, the flagship of the Royal Australian Navy, the heavy cruiser HMAS Australia, was hit by a Japanese plane carrying a 200 kg (441 pound) bomb, off Leyte Island. The name of the pilot and his unit is unknown, and the type of aircraft is unclear, although the pilot was perceived by observers to have made a suicide attack. The plane struck the superstructure of the Australia above the bridge, spewing burning fuel and debris over a large area. However, the bomb failed to explode; if it had, the ship may have been effectively destroyed. At least 30 crew members died as a result of the attack, including the commanding officer, Captain Emile Dechaineux; among the wounded was Commodore John Collins, the Australian force commander.

On October 25, the Australia was hit again and was forced to retire to the New Hebrides for repairs. (HMAS Australia returned to combat in January 1945; by the end of the war, she had survived being hit by kamikazes on six separate occasions, with the loss of 86 lives.)

That same day, five Zeros, led by Yukio, attacked a US escort carrier, the USS St. Lo, although only one kamikaze actually hit the ship. Its bomb caused fires that resulted in the bomb magazine exploding, sinking the carrier. Others hit and damaged several other Allied ships. Because many of them had wooden flight decks, US aircraft carriers were considered more vulnerable to kamikaze attacks than the British Royal Navy carriers operating in the Pacific.

The main wave of kamikaze attacks
These successes were followed by an immediate expansion of the program, and over the next few months over 2,000 planes made such attacks. This included new types of attacks, including purpose-built Yokosuka MXY7 Ohka rocket-bombs, small boats packed with explosives, and manned torpedoes, called the Kaiten.

The peak came during the Battle of Okinawa, when waves of planes made hundreds of attacks. The effort included a one-way mission by the battleship Yamato, which failed to get anywhere near the fight after being set upon by Allied fighters several hundred miles away.

Off Okinawa, Kamikaze aircraft attacks focused at first on Allied destroyers on "picket duty", and then on the carriers in the middle of the fleet. These attacks, which expended 1,465 planes, created havoc: accounts of losses vary, but by the end of the battle, at least 21 US ships had been sunk by kamikazes, along with some from other Allied navies, and dozens more had been damaged. It is claimed that about 5,000 Allied personnel were killed by kamikzes at Okinawa alone.

As stocks of older planes started to dry up, a new kamikaze-only plane, the Nakajima Ki-115 Tsurugi, was designed to provide a simple, easy-to-build plane that could use up existing stocks of engines in a wooden airframe. The undercarriage was non-retractable, to be jettisoned shortly after take-off for a suicide mission, to be reused. The Japanese were stockpiling hundreds of these planes, along with more Ohkas and boats, for the eventual invasion of Japan. They were never used.

Here is the web site for more info on kamikazes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze

[GROGnads]

Now, why couldn't they arrive at a 'better' term to use in reference to this? What? Doesn't "Idiot flying a Suicide Mission", make a much more descriptive form than 'Divine Wind'? What's the "wind" have anything to do with that! Man!...and they wonder WHY they lost the WAR!?...such 'craziness'!:confused:

[series]

It was during the 'Battle of Midway' when an American Pilot attempted to crash his flaming plane into one of the Japanese Carriers! Them damm sneaky Japanese 'copied' this 'tactic' later on, once again displaying their lack of 'imagination' during the WAR!:eek:

...really?

[Sinister]

The difference being of course, a crazy pilot deciding to be crazy instead of being ordered to for his country.

[Krieghund]

The difference being of course, a crazy pilot deciding to be crazy instead of being ordered to for his country.

Actually, kamikaze pilots were volunteers. The difference is a pilot with a shot-up aircraft trying to go out in a blaze of glory versus a pilot with a perfectly good aircraft committing suicide.