Fleet co-operations?

[Sean-Khan]

As quite newbie with Naval warfare of WW2, I'm wondering if there were any kind of united fleets used, for example Fleets where German german destroyers supported Italian fleet or fleets consisting Brit & US ships - or were there many conflicts where Italian fleet & German fleet engaged British fleet etc.

Of course the largest events (D-Day) had participants from multiple countries, but other than that I'm not aware of this subject.

First thing on my mind to mix is to give some patrol/torpedo boats for Brits/Germans - boats aren't even named after type, so I guess they fit in pretty well :)

[Legbiter]

As quite newbie with Naval warfare of WW2, I'm wondering if there were any kind of united fleets used, for example Fleets where German german destroyers supported Italian fleet or fleets consisting Brit & US ships - or were there many conflicts where Italian fleet & German fleet engaged British fleet etc.

Of course the largest events (D-Day) had participants from multiple countries, but other than that I'm not aware of this subject.

First thing on my mind to mix is to give some patrol/torpedo boats for Brits/Germans - boats aren't even named after type, so I guess they fit in pretty well :)

The only large-scale events of this type that I'm aware of are the hunt for the Graf Spee [British/Commonwealth and French, allied victory], Battle of the North Atlantic [some cooperation between American and British surface units, lots more between planes and ships], operations around the North Cape [British/Soviet vs Germans, cooperation so bad that eventually the British tried to avoid having to cooperate at all] and the battle of the Java Sea [British/Australian/Dutch/American against Japanese] which was a disastrous defeat.

I remember seeing General Mark Clark give an interview in which he blamed the slowness of the Allied land advance in Italy on the fact that the allies were a lot of different armies whereas the Germans were one united army. I know that Gen Clark was a notorious old woman and whiner but I thought there was something in his remarks. I expect they would apply a fortiori to naval matters!

On the smaller scale there was a tremendous amount of cooperation, with Polish, Dutch, Norwegian and Free French units operating as part of the Royal Navy throughout the war. Later the Italian Navy fought on both sides, the battleship Roma being the first warship ever sunk by what we would now call a cruise missile, launched from a German aeroplane.

[MarcusAurelius]

As quite newbie with Naval warfare of WW2, I'm wondering if there were any kind of united fleets used, for example Fleets where German german destroyers supported Italian fleet or fleets consisting Brit & US ships - or were there many conflicts where Italian fleet & German fleet engaged British fleet etc.

There were a number of united fleet actions during WWII — particularly in the Mediterranean and Pacific theaters. Here are a few battles you might find interesting:

Battle of Dakar
September 23-25, 1940
An Allied fleet including ships from the UK, Australia, Free France and the Netherlands attacked the Vichy French in an unsuccessful attempt to capture this strategic port.

Battle of the Java Sea
February 27 – March 1, 1942
In the largest surface engagement since the Battle of Jutland in World War I, the American-British-Dutch-Australian (ABDA) fleet suffered a series of disastrous defeats at the hands of the Imperial Japanese Navy.

Indian Ocean Raid
March 31-April 10, 1942
After the destruction of the ABDA forces, the Japanese carried out a series of attacks against the Royal Navy fleet in the Indian Ocean — which was supported by the Dutch light cruiser Jacob Van Heemskerc, along with several Dutch and Australian destroyers.

Operation Vigorous
June 12-16, 1942
The British Mediterranean Fleet (including ships from the UK and Australia) assembled to escort a supply convoy to Malta. After encountering heavy opposition from Axis forces — including the Italian fleet and German aircraft, submarines and E-boats — the operation was abandoned.

Operation Pedestal
August 11-13, 1942
A British convoy escort fleet fought off repeated attacks by Italian and German submarines, torpedo boats, bombers and fighters — delivering crucial supplies to lift the siege of Malta.

[XAos]

German & Italian surface ships could not co-operate because the Italian fleet was inside the mediteranian & the german fleet was outside. And with the exception of a small number of U-boats no axis ship could get through the streights of Gibralta. The German airforce did co-operate with the Italian navy.
Japan & Germany were simply too far apart to co-operate. Again the exception was a couple of U-Boats. Which the germans "sold" to the Japanese. I don't recall seeing any mention of how the crews of those U-boats got home...?
The most noticable "mixed" fleet engagement of the war was the Battle of the Java sea. Where a mixed force of Dutch, US, British & Australian cruisers was sunk by a Japanese squadron.
I'd guess the Italian & free-French ships are the only ones likly to be employed in mixed forces.

[dracos42]

There were Australian ships fighting alongside the US Navy in the Battle of Leyte Gulf. One Aussie cruiser, maybe more ships, was in the Battle of Surigao Strait. And of course, Savo Island featured a mixed US/RAN force.

There was probably mixing of US and Commonwealth escorts for Atlantic convoys. I know US and British ships were mixed together into escort groups for the Murmansk convoy runs.

The aircraft carrier USS Wasp was part of one of the British resupply efforts to Malta.

That's off the top of my head. It's late.

Mike L.

[XAos]

A number of US/UK ships were also "sold" to other allies.
e.g; You could use the US DDE in a UK fleet.

[Legbiter]

A number of US/UK ships were also "sold" to other allies.
e.g; You could use the US DDE in a UK fleet.

Nitpick #1: I believe that should be Sold!, at least as regards the US to UK transactions. We just finished paying you guys for world war 2 at the end of last year.

Nitpick #2: If you want a Royal Navy DDE you have to file the torpedo tubes off. At least, that's what the guy in my FLGS told me [without ANY prompting on my part] when I bought the Trumpeter 1/350 kit of the USS England off him.

[Sean-Khan]

These things have been very interesting, thanks for all the info!

I'll be replying also to my aircraft -thread soon, with something to show...