Aircraft & WaS

[Sean-Khan]

As aircraft have always been my soft spot in WW2 -stuff, now when we're starting to get small-scale planes in WaS I'm starting to have ideas of making some customs too :) But again, I haven't got much knowledge about use of planes at sea. Still, some things I might do to create some

I already asked about He-111 in another thread - apparently they didn't see much use on seas, but I'd still like to do some :) Me-109's are obvious choise for land-based escort, although we might well get those in set 2.

Sea/spitfire would be an important choise for Brits. Beaufighter would make a great coast-based torpedo bomber. I'd also like to do some Lancasters - does anyone know if heavy bombers were used in WW2 in any other case than bombing of Tirpitz? What kind of tactics did they use (altitude), and what kind of tactics Condor's used? Were Condor's used as units or solitary planes? There is only one on base...

Also, I'd like to know what kind of tactics did He-196 and Ju-88's use; It's difficult to think of these as most planes are used in larger groups and I have a feeling that these didn't operate in very large groups.

Of US planes, Corsair is pretty obvious, as well as Avenger. I believe that Mitchell wasn't actually used in naval battles but Hornet's operation is pretty legendary so I guess that makes Mitchells potential for this game, maybe with some kind of single-use limitation (did they strip some weapons too?) if carrier -based.

As I mentioned, I believe set 2 will have Bf109's. I also think there will be Corsairs & Avengers, unless something's intentionally held for future sets. What else do you think there will be?

Oo, and of course there must be Short Sunderland! Set 2 -stuff too?

Thanks for any info & opinions on these matters :)

[mikoyan]

I don't know about Europe, but in the Pacific, the US had a group of B-17's attack the fleet off Midway. The results weren't very good. The US tried to use heavy bombers a couple more times and didn't have good results. The bombs were just not accurate enough and the ships too mobile for high altitude bombing.

I think the US did use skip bombing against shipping later in the war but I'm not sure if those were by heavy bombers or medium bombers.

[CdtWeasel]

The B-25 was used in many various anti-shipping operations in the pacific. It operated under the PBJ designation in Marine service. As previously mentioned it was used to skip bomb (as were other medium bombers I believe) for one. There was also the version with a 75mm cannon in the nose, with the primary use being to attack shipping. Not sure what version or thinking will be behind the one we get in the game.

[TheFoeHammer]

For US Pacific operations you have the F4F and the F6F for carrier based fighters. The Marines at Midway also flew F2As.

Scout/Dive Bombers were the SBD, SB2C, and the little used SB2U.

And Torpedo bombers you had TBD, TBF and TBM

The US Army would have flown just about any plane used in the European theatre. Since as the late war bombing missions stepped up against Japanese industry, a variety of escorts were needed.

[mikoyan]

For US Pacific operations you have the F4F and the F6F for carrier based fighters. The Marines at Midway also flew F2As.

Scout/Dive Bombers were the SBD, SB2C, and the little used SB2U.

And Torpedo bombers you had TBD, TBF and TBM

The US Army would have flown just about any plane used in the European theatre. Since as the late war bombing missions stepped up against Japanese industry, a variety of escorts were needed.
The Bombing Campaign against Japan was predominantly escort-less as the B-29 could outfly any escort available. The bombing campaign was carried out with daylight bombing at first and then switched to a night fire bombing campaign with devastating results.

[MarcusAurelius]

The Battle of the Bismarck Sea demonstrated the growing strength of Allied air power in 1943 — as aircraft from the U.S. and the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) carried out decisive attacks on a Japanese troop convoy.

After the convoy was spotted by a patrolling B-24 Liberator, several flights of B-17s attacked and sunk several merchant ships. PBY Catalina flying boats of the RAAF continued to trail the transports, until a force of 90 Allied aircraft took off from Port Moresby to intercept the convoy.

With U.S. P-38 Lightnings providing top cover, Beaufighters, Mitchells, A-20s and B-17s pressed the attack. By the end of the day, all of the transports were sunk — alonk with several escorting destroyers.

[Joisey]

As aircraft have always been my soft spot in WW2 -stuff, now when we're starting to get small-scale planes in WaS I'm starting to have ideas of making some customs too :) But again, I haven't got much knowledge about use of planes at sea. Still, some things I might do to create some

I already asked about He-111 in another thread - apparently they didn't see much use on seas, but I'd still like to do some :) Me-109's are obvious choise for land-based escort, although we might well get those in set 2.



The Me109 was far too short ranged to be any use as a naval fighter. The FW-190 would have been suitable, but by the time it was introduced the Battle of the Atlantic was over.

[MarcusAurelius]

As far as War at Sea goes, here's my wish list for aircraft in upcoming sets:

UK
Short Sunderland
Bristol Type 152 Beaufort
Fairey Barracuda
Fairey Fulmar
Supermarine Seafire

GERMANY
Junkers Ju 290
Heinkel He 115
Junkers Ju 88
Messerschmitt Bf 109

ITALY
CANT Z.506 Airone
Savoia-Marchetti SM.79 Sparviero
Fiat CR.42 Falco
Macchi C.202 Folgore

JAPAN
Kawanishi H8K "Emily"
Nakajima B6N "Jill"
Yokosuka D4Y Suisei "Judy"
Kawanishi N1K-J "George"

UNITED STATES
Lockheed PV-1 Ventura
North American B-25 Mitchell
Grumman TBF Avenger
Curtiss SB2C Helldiver
Chance Vought F4U Corsair

[MarcusAurelius]

The Me109 was far too short ranged to be any use as a naval fighter. The FW-190 would have been suitable, but by the time it was introduced the Battle of the Atlantic was over.

I'd take either one, actually. Both aircraft provided air cover for the duration of the Channel Dash. But I'd rather see the Heinkel He 115 or Junkers Ju 88 in War at Sea first.

[TheFoeHammer]

The Bombing Campaign against Japan was predominantly escort-less as the B-29 could outfly any escort available. The bombing campaign was carried out with daylight bombing at first and then switched to a night fire bombing campaign with devastating results.

That's just plain incorrect.

There were several AAF fighter groups in the Pacific flying Bomber Escorts for B-29s (and other bombers) in both P51s and P47s.

A quick search immediately reveals the 15th and 506th Fighter Groups with specific long range escort duties during 1945.

http://506thfightergroup.org/506thistory.asp

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/usaf/15abw.htm

[XAos]

That's just plain incorrect.

There were several AAF fighter groups in the Pacific flying Bomber Escorts for B-29s (and other bombers) in both P51s and P47s.

A quick search immediately reveals the 15th and 506th Fighter Groups with specific long range escort duties during 1945.

http://506thfightergroup.org/506thistory.asp

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/usaf/15abw.htm
True, I suspect the orrigional post was confused with early war strategic bombing. By mid-late war the Mustang & Aircobra were providing fighter escourt to most targets.

[Lynx7725]

Airacobras? Airacobras?? Those flying tricycles? They were good as close support early and mid war, but as escorts late war when the B-29s were active?

[mikoyan]

There weren't fighter escorts for the Bombers until Iwo Jima became operational, I think. So when I said the missions were predominantly escortless, I was pretty much correct given that the bases weren't ready until mid-1945.

[M4A1 Sherman]

In order for Bombers to get Fighter escorts, the target had to be within Fighter range.

Europe:
P-47's escorted Bombers as far as they could and then they would turn back leaving the Bombers to continue to their targets alone. That changed when the P-51 was introduced. The P-51 could escort Bombers all the way to the targets.

Pacific:
Fighter escorts were hit and miss as the Fighters depended on islands and carriers. The B-29's could fly higher than any Japanese Fighter so they did not require Fighter escort. Yes, they did recieve them when it was necessary. The B-29's that hit Japan with the A-Bomb were (I believe) not escorted as the A-Bomb's blast would catch up to any US Fighter. The B-29 pilots that dropped the A-Bomb were even told that the bomb's blast might catch up to them and rip their Bomber apart killing them all.

Well, that is my two cents worth.

[Sean-Khan]

All right, thanks everyone for info! Some interesting reading, I'll have to say.

I got my first custom ready, 1:900 Me-109, and wanted to post it here to show something about details & scale of the planes.

Here's a close shot:

http://www.iki.fi/~twilek/models/was/109-close.jpg

You can see, it doesn't look all that good. Also, I think the plane has some features of spitfire or hurricane, too... it's just pretty hard to make detailed shapes in that scale.

Here's another picture, a bit more away and something for scale:

http://www.iki.fi/~twilek/models/was/109-scale.jpg

Maybe I should have used some kind of tools to make the insignia, but I didn't want to spend too much time to these. Maybe next time... They look almost ok anyway to the eye ;)