Carriers worth it?...

[Major Adler]

wondering...since IMO a U.S. carrier and 3 airgroups will cost around 50 pts...and a Stuka for example will cost around 8pts....

that means you could have 6 Stuka units for the price of a carrier and 3 airgroups...you can base the Stukas from a land site...but the 3 air groups are flying off a unit that can be detroyed...

we have not seen the advanced rules yet...but it seems to me there must be some healthy advantage to having a carrier...otherwise I would rather have the planes based on land and have twice as many...

[Bellerophon]

wondering...since IMO a U.S. carrier and 3 airgroups will cost around 50 pts...and a Stuka for example will cost around 8pts....

that means you could have 6 Stuka units for the price of a carrier and 3 airgroups...you can base the Stukas from a land site...but the 3 air groups are flying off a unit that can be detroyed...

we have not seen the advanced rules yet...but it seems to me there must be some healthy advantage to having a carrier...otherwise I would rather have the planes based on land and have twice as many...
I guess that depends on whether you would judge a single carrier as an effective AA platform or not. If the 3 US airgroups can engage 3 of the land-based Stukas, that would leave 3 Stukas to engage the carrier. I would be willing to lay even odds on the carrier being able to disrupt and/or destroy at least 2 of the 3, so 1 in 6 odds ain't too bad.

This is assuming that the carrier is by itself and unescorted by other AA platforms such as cruisers or destroyers.

[Modern Major-General]

You can view the USS Enterprise's stats and most interestingly, the special abilities. Expert Dogfighter and Expert Bomber give bonus dice to planes. In the last preview on planes, it was said these abilities are available to carriers in general.

Now as to what a "Basing Capacity 3" means for carriers, we may get a clue in the next preview when they will be discussing an Axis carrier.

[Joisey]

wondering...since IMO a U.S. carrier and 3 airgroups will cost around 50 pts...and a Stuka for example will cost around 8pts....

that means you could have 6 Stuka units for the price of a carrier and 3 airgroups...you can base the Stukas from a land site...but the 3 air groups are flying off a unit that can be detroyed...

we have not seen the advanced rules yet...but it seems to me there must be some healthy advantage to having a carrier...otherwise I would rather have the planes based on land and have twice as many...


Only assuming that your battle is within range of land based air. Which is why navies traditionally are very cautious approaching enemy positions where ground air is available. Anywhere out in the open ocean, your stukas aren't available, and the aircraft carrier is the queen of battle for that reason.

[hornet69]

carriers are worth it if you make sure you have adequate support such as anti-aircraft defense ships .destoyers for asw searchies and a good selection of planes .having all fighters is no good attacking a base or a fleet.

and for that matter .what defense will a port or airfield have

[Major Adler]

well I guess if you use a carrier and then have to spend more pts. to protect it...it's not that great a deal...that is why there must be some sort of ability that makes a carrier worth it...

something like carriers can launch their planes every turn and land based aircraft can launch every other turn...

the thing that makes the carriers worth their weight in gold is the fact that their are usually hidden from the enemy when their planes strike...it does not appear to me that there is any hidden movement in this game...and planes do not move to their target...they kinda hyper-space there like in A&A minis...

[XAos]

wondering...since IMO a U.S. carrier and 3 airgroups will cost around 50 pts...and a Stuka for example will cost around 8pts....

Err... do we actually know the cost of a Stuka or any other bomber in the game. Do we know the rules about what the aircapacity of 3 (on enterprise) means. I want to see the rules for that "carrier-stat" before I try to guess if it's worth playing or not.
We do know the Enterprise gives a wildcat+1 V's enemy aircraft which increases the odds of a kill on a Zeke by nearly double. And also increases the odds of aborting an enemy bomber. We won't know how much by until we see the bombers armor. But I'd guess that +1 justifies 6 of the Enterprises points. It also gives 2 dauntlesses +2 each against ships. Again we need the stats for a dauntless before we can calculate what thats worth.

[Major Adler]

hidden movement for carriers is historical and what gives them their value...without such in this game...I guess they will have to come up with super powerful rule for them (which will probably be un-authentic) to make them worth having...

Errrrrrrrrrrrr...and...no we do not know the value of a Stuka XAos...you might notice my use of IMO...pardon me for starting threads here that might...launch some discusion/activity on this rather dead forum...

[unc_samurai]

What has hurt a lot of games (particularly video games, but also table-top) is the effectiveness of aircraft. To give some sort of "balance" most aircraft weaponry isn't as powerful as it should be. The power of a squadron of Dauntless Dive bombers is underrated. Part of this problem comes from the number of aircraft represented. No one wants to control a large fighter group (I pointed out in a previous thread that dive-bomber squadrons operated at about 32-36 aircraft. That's a lot of bombs. It's no wonder the battleship went from being a global necessity to AA escort in the span of five years. I hope they will give the carrier aircraft sufficient hitting power to represent this.

[XAos]

.I guess they will have to come up with super powerful rule for them (which will probably be un-authentic) to make them worth having...

The +1 to a fighter & +2 to a bomber is "a super-powerfull rule" to make them worth having. +1 may not sound like much but it doubles the odds of a wildcat destroying a Zeke (or vis-versa).
The "CAP" special ability on fighters is also a "super-rule" it enables up to 4 fighters to provide defense to any ship in the fleet, providing the carrier stays within 2 cells of all the ships.
The flagship Bonus of 2; is also valuable (I presume a plus to initiative rolls.)
Most of Enterprise's bonuses can be justified by the use of Radar & the overall "Combat-Inteligence" assets it had as flagship.

[Der Leiter]

The +1 to a fighter & +2 to a bomber is "a super-powerfull rule" to make them worth having. +1 may not sound like much but it doubles the odds of a wildcat destroying a Zeke (or vis-versa).
The "CAP" special ability on fighters is also a "super-rule" it enables up to 4 fighters to provide defense to any ship in the fleet, providing the carrier stays within 2 cells of all the ships.
The flagship Bonus of 2; is also valuable (I presume a plus to initiative rolls.)
Most of Enterprise's bonuses can be justified by the use of Radar & the overall "Combat-Inteligence" assets it had as flagship.

Each of these is a very good point, and yes the flagship bonus of two is very valuable. Just wait for the opening salvo for some more information on how it all works.