proper costs

[FlyingDutchman]

Following all this discussion of silly platoons combining non-historical units etc :mad: etc. I am more and more convinced the only true and viable solution is to have properly cost units.

Does anyone have a list of the proper costs of all the units so far? I would be most obliged...

ps. I do not want to start discussions on the costs of individual units - that is for HHR. Rather, post competing and complete list of all the units with the proper costs according to YOU! (marking the difference with the original price would of course be perfect...):cool:

[Colonel_Panic]

I agree that the notion of historically incorrect platoon-cards is silly, but the platooncards as presented by WotC is the very best thing announced for this game since the game itself was announced. I think I can speak for many histrorcal players that the more historically correct armies we can build, the better. Powergamers on the other hand, just want cost effective armies, and pure cost correction is a main issue for them.

I sincerely hope that the Expert Rules aim for historically correctness, and not for powergaming. The way shown by WotC clearly points in that direction, so I say, keep marching Bob & Mons, and you'll reach the objective of making A&AM more histroically accurate.

[Qmark]

I sincerely hope that the Expert Rules aim for historically correctness, and not for powergaming.Powergamers have an innate instinct for exploiting any rules.

[Colonel_Panic]

Powergamers have an innate instinct for exploiting any rules.

That is true, but they also have a tendency to try to drive the development of the game into the cheesy-spiral-of-cheesy-spiral-of (repeat until dead). If the focus of the new rules are for historical accurate playability, then they can try to abuse the rules, but as long as we don't leave open holes in the front, they cannot break in.

[Qmark]

Why assume that Shermans and SSPG's cost too litte, when it's just as valid to assume pretty much everything else costs too much? This is the idea behind "Platoon Pricing", and it is much more compatable with the game we already have if Volkstrum was recosted at 1.25 points, SMLE at 2.5 etc. - essentially bringing the crap up instead of castrating the good.
This way, any pre-existing build would still be valid. Some may be far fewer total points than the cards actually say, but nothing will suddenly bloat to 180 points.

The rules and precident already allow for fractional point costs, use them.

[Colonel_Panic]

Why assume that Shermans and SSPG's cost too litte, when it's just as valid to assume pretty much everything else costs too much?

Thats exactly why we need platoon cards for the now too expensive troops, and to get more historical combinations of troops on the battlefield.

Just think how it will sound in a few years when too many teens been playing A&AM power-game-style.

In the second world war, the snipers were the pilots worst enemies, and the german snipers also killed hundreds of allied tank commanders with their sniper rifles. The American paratroopers where unstoppable, and the Brittish soldiers were so afraid of their commanders that they always ran at twice the speed of their counterparts. On the other hand the Soviet union manned their tanks with Cossack Captains, who induced fear into the hearts of the German Soldiers. The SS was the bulk force of the German Army, and normally fought the Rangerdivisons, and the MG-42 was not at as fearsome as the Bren or the BAR, which caused the enemy to by reflex fall prone when it was fired.

[Qmark]

I have no objection to repricing units, so long as the new numbers are lower than the old ones. Better to inadvertantly pay more, than have someone insist I do so.

[shadowhooch]

In the second world war, the snipers were the pilots worst enemies, and the german snipers also killed hundreds of allied tank commanders with their sniper rifles. The American paratroopers where unstoppable, and the Brittish soldiers were so afraid of their commanders that they always ran at twice the speed of their counterparts. On the other hand the Soviet union manned their tanks with Cossack Captains, who induced fear into the hearts of the German Soldiers. The SS was the bulk force of the German Army, and normally fought the Rangerdivisons, and the MG-42 was not at as fearsome as the Bren or the BAR, which caused the enemy to by reflex fall prone when it was fired.

That's funny!:D

Sad but true.:rolleyes:

[polish_horsy]

I have no objection to repricing units, so long as the new numbers are lower than the old ones. Better to inadvertantly pay more, than have someone insist I do so.

that doesn't quite fit with what you were saying in another thread.

"The idea of the cards becoming plain wrong is unacceptable. There's a massive difference between tweaking an SA when something unexpected comes up, and having the numbers on the card not be the numbers the unit really has."

You were objecting to changing the cost of 2 units. So instead we have to talk about changing 10 or 20 units? Why not just set the SS-PG and Ranger to 7. I don't get it.

[Qmark]

Because, If something previously costing three were recosted at two, I can still "legally" use it as if it costs three. This is not possible for something previously five going to seven.

Better to 'accidentally' build a 60-point army and be accused of being stupid, than to 'accidentally' build a 130-point army and be accused of cheating.

[Autarch]

But isn't it also about incorrect unit stats? Is the Sherman's AI over the top, or all the other German AFVs AI undervalued? Or both? I'm not sure playing a correctly costed, underperforming unit would be very satisfying.

I'm a proponent of correct costing, but while the hoods up, I think there are other unit values that need to be adjusted as well.

[Colonel_Panic]

But isn't it also about incorrect unit stats? Is the Sherman's AI over the top, or all the other German AFVs AI undervalued? Or both? I'm not sure playing a correctly costed, underperforming unit would be very satisfying.

I'm a proponent of correct costing, but while the hoods up, I think there are other unit values that need to be adjusted as well.

So, is the Panzer IVG overcosted or underperforming?
Its overcosted for the performance is has now, and underperformig related to the cost i has now. Lower the cost until it's cost is in pair with its performance, or do as I have suggested twice, use the Platoon Cards (they have some estate left i hope), to provide simple updates to the units belonging to that card. As we say here in Sweden "Slå två flugor i en smäll!" (Hit two flies in one strike).

[wilson2]

Just fix the prices and forget platoons

[Vikingwarrior]

Recost the units. And I think I finally came up with how WoTc can do it inexpensively and promote the game and the local game store at the same time. WoTc could issue small square stickers that could be applied to the existing cards with the new numbers on them. They could supply these stickers to the local game store for free, as a service. The benefit to WoTc is to promote the game, sell more boosters, and make existing gamers happy which will in turn promote the game even more. The benefit to the local game store is it creates traffic and buzz for the game. Couple this with Combat Zone gaming and more boosters should be sold as well which should increase sales for the game store. The benefit to the gamers is obvious.
Since HHR has done the lions share of the work WoTc can use their costs but only recost units that are aggregiously out of wack. I think this is a VERY doable and low cost way of promoting the game.

[Cpt. John Miller]

Recost the units. And I think I finally came up with how WoTc can do it inexpensively and promote the game and the local game store at the same time. WoTc could issue small square stickers that could be applied to the existing cards with the new numbers on them. They could supply these stickers to the local game store for free, as a service. The benefit to WoTc is to promote the game, sell more boosters, and make existing gamers happy which will in turn promote the game even more. The benefit to the local game store is it creates traffic and buzz for the game. Couple this with Combat Zone gaming and more boosters should be sold as well which should increase sales for the game store. The benefit to the gamers is obvious.
Since HHR has done the lions share of the work WoTc can use their costs but only recost units that are aggregiously out of wack. I think this is a VERY doable and low cost way of promoting the game.

I'm sorry guys, recosting may be the easiest solution(some of you want restatting too!) but it is just not gonna happen. Make a list of all the units with the costs you would like and use it to build all your armies and make your opponent do the same.
WotC is not going to recost anything.
Or reprint cards.
Or make stickers for you.
I wish they could make us all happy with custom corrections, and new cards and such, but I give it very little chance of happening.
I hate to be a party pooper but this is a fix you will have to do yourselves.