WAS and mini's [Archive] - Avalon Hill Boards

Luthorn

02-19-2007, 01:15 PM

Has anyone here thought about using all 5 a+a mini's sets and the WAS set to have a huge campaign, or even using it with the a+a board game? Lets here your plans guys.

TheJudge

02-19-2007, 02:06 PM

My first thoughts were of doing a Guadalcanal Scenario on a very large table so you can have both. 3/4 of the table would apply to the sea battles around guadalcanal and Iron Bottom Sound.

The Americans invade of course and the Japanese are defending so the American invasion force is say, 1/3 greater than the defenders, like 120pts vs 80 but they Japanese can attempt to reinforce using both merchant ships and destroyers and submarines so if a merchant ship gets through, the defending army adds say 3 more troops, if a destroyer gets through, they add 2 more, and a sub adds 1 troop.

The Americans, meanwhile are reinforcing with troops and planes and trying to stave off the Tokyo Express which is the reinforcements from Rabaul led by Tanaka.

Each turn is crucial since the Americans need to attempt to sink the reinforcement ships, fight the ground battles, and defend against the Japanese fleet.

Just as a start:

Japanese-

Shokaku
Zuikaku
Fuso
Yamashiro
Tone
Mikuma
Several destroyers
Several merchant ships

Imperial Fanatics x3
Imperial Sargeant x1
Arisaka Rifle x6
Anti tank gun x2
Mortar team x2

Americans

Enterprise
Hornet
2 cruisers
Washington
South Dakota
Several destroyers
Several merchant ships

Marine riflemen x8
red devil captain
Flamethrowers x2
Mortar team
Sherman M4A1
P-38 Lightning or Corsairs x2

The Japanese reinforcements would be 10 Arisaka rifles and if the ship transporting them is lost, they are lost but no more than 3 trrops in one turn may reach the island.

The Americans would get a reinforcement of Marine riflemen on turns 3 and 6 and they have 6 total.

Something to that effect, I haven't priced it all out yet but that gives you a general idea. The first part of each turn is the naval and/or reinforcement and the 2nd part of the turn is the ground battles that include the air phase for the Americans who own Henderson Field.

Have much more work to do on it but I think it may play very well and it would basically more than double the length of a standard game but the theory makes it sound like a lot of fun.

M2A0

02-19-2007, 03:27 PM

I'm actually doing this. We are using the Revised, Pacific, & Europe boards for strategic moves. And minis to fight it out. We started the game in July of 1937. We just finished up the 2nd quarter of 1939 Sat night with a big naval battle. Germany tried to break out into the the N. Atlantic via the N. Sea. As most of the models stats have not been revealed yet, I'll not get into the nitty gritty of the actions. Let's just say the Bismarck and a ragtag group of damaged support units had to head back to the Danish Sea after the fight. Of course about a third of the UK navy is now resting on the bottom of the ocean.

Each side has around 8000+ points for land units and something around 2500 each for naval. It's all broken down by nation and year of entry etc... far to much stuff to post.

This was a great way for me to par down my collection too. Except for the more basic infantry types and certain support units I cut my collection down to 4-5 of each unit.

Luthorn

02-19-2007, 03:37 PM

M2A0

02-19-2007, 03:47 PM

Are you playing the battles using the mini's rules and having the board game as a strategic map? I would love to know your rules that you are using to determine who gets what, when they get it, and how they get it. I am looking at doing the same thing as soon as the War at Sea comes out. I have well over $1000 in mini's right now, but waiting to get the WAS before i start.

You pegged it. I'll post the info for you in a few minutes. Keep in mind the point totals are based off of my personal collection so you will need to alter that part of it.

M2A0

02-19-2007, 03:49 PM

FR Lebel 86M93 Grenadier 4/40-5/45 x4 3 Jul-37 297
FR MAS 7.5mm Rifle 4/40-5/45 x12 3
FR Bold Captain 4/40-5/45 x2 7
FR Renault R-35 5/40-6/40 x6 9
FR Somua S-35 5/40-6/40 x6 14
FR Char B1-bis 5/40-6/40 x3 21
FR Panhard et Levassor P 178 5/40-6/40 x6 10 May-40 60
FR French Resistance Fighters 7/40-2/45 x6 4 Jul-40 24
FR Free French Infantrymen 6/41-5/45 x15 3 Jun-41 35

AUS Veteran SMLE Riflemen 12/40-8/45 x6 5 Jul-37 30

CAN Canadian Infantrymen 8/42-5/45 x12 3 Jul-37 80
CAN Eagle-Eyed NCO 8/42-5/45 x4 7
CAN Intrepid Hero 8/42-5/45 x2 8
CAN Entrenched Antitank Gun 7/43-5/45 x6 7 Jul-43 42
CAN Sherman DD 6/44 & 3/45 x6 24 Jun-44 144

CH Kuomintang Rifleman 7/37-8/45 x4 2 Jul-37 59
CH Kuomintang Officer 7/37-8/45 x1 5
CH Kuomintang Machine-Gun Team 7/37-8/45 x2 6
CH T-26 Series 1933 3/38-12/39 x5 11 Mar-38 55

POL Polish Mauser Kar 98 Sep-39 x8 3 Jul-37 122
POL Cavalrymen Sep-39 x6 4
POL 7TPdw Sep-39 x5 8
POL Determined Infantrymen 4/40-8/45 x8 4 Apr-40 32

SOV Soviet Grenadiers 6/41-4/42 x10 4 Jul-37 401
SOV Mosin-Nagant 1891/30 6/41-8/45 x10 3
SOV Degtyarev DP-27 6/41-8/45 x5 4 Apr-39 Remainder
SOV Commissar 6/41-8/45 x5 5 Sep-39 Remainder
SOV Red Army Forward Observer 6/41-8/45 x2 8
SOV 82mm PM-37 Mortar 6/41-8/45 x4 11
SOV BA-10M 6/41-8/43 x7 12
SOV BT-7 6/41-8/45 x6 13
SOV Cossack Cavalrymen 6/41-8/45 x5 4 Jun-41 339
SOV Cossack Captain 6/41-8/45 x2 9
SOV T-35 6/41-10/41 x5 18
SOV Hero of the Soviet Union 6/41-8/45 x3 8
SOV Communist Partisans 6/41-7/44 x5 3
SOV PTRD-41 AT Rifle 6/41/8/45 x4 4
SOV Fanatical Sniper 6/41-8/45 x4 8
SOV T-34/76 6/41-8/45 x5 28
SOV KV-1 7/41-12/43 x6 32 Jul-41 240
SOV BM-13 Katyusha Rocket Launcher 7/41-8/45 x4 12
SOV PPSh-41 SMG 12/41-8/45 x10 3 Dec-41 30
SOV Soviet M3 Lee 11/42-8/43 x6 30 Nov-42 180
SOV T-70 Model 1942 5/42-8/45 x7 12 May-42 84
SOV SU-76M 5/43-8/45 x4 18 May-43 72
SOV SU-152 7/43-8/45 x4 51 Jul-43 204
SOV ZIS-2 57mm Model 1943 8/43-8/45 x4 8 Aug-43 162
SOV SU-85 8/43-8/45 x5 26
SOV Guards T-34/85 3/44-8/45 x4 33 Mar-44 132
SOV IS-2 Model 1944 6/44-8/45 x4 68 Jun-44 272
SOV IL-10 Sturmovik 4/45-8/45 x4 21 Apr-45 84
SOV IS-3 Aug-45 x5 76 Aug-45 380

UK Bren Machine Gunner 4/40-8/45 x3 5 Jul-37 233
UK Vickers Machine-Gun Team 4/40-8/45 x7 8
UK 40mm Bofors L60 4/40-8/45 x3 9 Apr-40 Remainder
UK Inspiring Lieutenant 4/40-8/45 x7 10
UK Royal Engineers 4/40-8/45 x4 10
UK Concealed Forward Observer 4/40-8/45 x2 9
UK Inspiring Hero 4/40-8/45 x4 9
UK Supermarine Spitfire Mk. I 4/40-4/41 x4 15
UK Mk. VII Tetrarch 12/40-5/43 x6 12 Dec-40 125
UK Gurkha Riflemen 12/40-8/45 x3 4
UK Defiant Paratroopers 2/41-5/45 x15 8 Feb-41 147
UK SMLE No. 4 Rifle 3/41-8/45 x6 3 Mar-41 121
UK Humber Scout Car 3/41-8/45 x6 8
UK Universal Carrier 5/41-8/45 x6 10 May-41 144
UK Hawker Typhoon 5/41-5/45 x4 21
UK Crusader II 6/41-5/43 x3 11 Jun-41 33
UK Valentine II 11/41-5/45 x6 16 Nov-41 96
UK M3 Stuart 12/41-5/43 x6 15 Dec-41 90
UK 6-Pounder Antitank Gun 4/42-5/45 x6 9 Apr-42 54
UK PIAT Gunner 7/43-5/45 x3 7 Jul-43 21
UK 17-Pounder Antitank Gun 3/44-5/45 x6 16 Mar-44 96
UK Cromwell IV 6/44-5/45 x6 22 Jun-44 546
UK Churchill AVRE 6/44-5/45 x4 25
UK Sherman VC Firefly 6/44-5/45 x6 29
UK Churchill Crocodile 6/44-5/45 x4 35
UK Archer 10/44-5/45 x4 21 Oct-44 84
UK Comet A-34 12/44-5/45 x6 40 Dec-44 240
UK Gloster Meteor 1/45-5/45 x4 17 Jan-45 68
UK M22 "Locust" Mar-45 x6 13 Mar-45 78
UK Centurion A41 May-45 x3 50 May-45 150

US BAR Gunner 7/41-6/45 x8 4 Jul-37 165
US Jeep 7/41-6/45 x8 4
US Marine Riflemen 7/41-6/45 x3 4
US Mortar M2 7/41-6/45 x6 6
US Resourceful Hero 7/41-6/45 x5 8
US Hunting Sniper 7/41-6/45 x4 9
US FO Jeep 7/41-6/45 x2 11
US M1 81mm Mortar 7/41-6/45 x6 12
US Thompson Gunner 7/41-6/45 x5 4 Dec-41 Remainder
US Higgens Boat 8/42-4/45 x7 7 Aug-42 53
US Bazooka 8/42-6/45 x9 4
US Lockheed P-38G Lightning 9/42-6/45 x4 17 Sep-42 68
US M1 Garand Rifle 10/42-6/45 x9 4 Oct-42 99
US M3 Lee 11/42-4/44 x5 37 Nov-42 884
US Rangers 11/42-6/45 x6 5
US M3 Half-Track 11/42-6/45 x13 9
US 3" Gun M5 11/42-6/45 x6 12
US M4A1 Sherman 11/42-6/45 x10 21
US M5 Half-Track 11/42-6/45 x7 14
US M7 105mm Priest 11/42-6/45 x5 27
US F4U Corsair 2/43-6/45 x3 20 Feb-43 60
US M8 "Greyhound" 3/43-6/45 x4 16 Mar-43 80
US Quad 50 7/43-6/45 x3 10 Jul-43 120
US M16 Half-Track 7/43-6/45 x6 15
US "Amtrack" 11/43-4/45 x7 11 Nov-43 77
US Marines M2-2 Flamethrower 4/44-6/45 x4 5 Apr-44 16
US Veteran M4 Sherman "Rhino" 6/44-7/44 x4 26 Jun-44 757
US "Red Devil" Captain 6/44-5/45 x1 7
US "Screaming Eagle" Paratroopers 6/44-5/45 x6 9
US "Screaming Eagle" Captain 6/44-5/45 x1 11
US P-51D Mustang 6/44-8/45 x4 17
US M18 Hellcat 6-44-5/45 x4 20
US M4A3 (105) Sherman 6/44-5/45 x5 24
US M4 Sherman T-34 Calliope 6/44-5/45 x5 29
US M36 GMC 6/44-5/45 x4 36
US "Buffalo Soldiers" 9/44-5/45 x9 4 Sep-44 373
US M4A3E8 Sherman "Easy Eight" 9/44-5/45 x5 54
US M24 Chaffee 1/45-5/45 x5 22 Jan-45 110
US M26 Pershing 2/45-5/45 x4 65 Feb-45 260
US M20 75mm Recoilless Rifle 3/45-5/45 x6 10 Mar-45 60

XXX Ammo Dump x6 10
XXX Fuel Depot x6 6
XXX Headquarters x6 7
XXX Barbed Wire x12 0.5
XXX Minefield x12 2
XXX Pillbox x12 2
XXX Tank Obstacles x12 1

M2A0

02-19-2007, 03:52 PM

Note for all of these list. Units that are bold and in italics can be purchased in 1937 for the intial set up. And now I see that the bold and italics didn't show up with a copy paste. Oh well.

GR Mauser Kar 98k 9/39-5/45 x12 1937 621
GR Light Mortar 9/39-5/42 x9 1939 Q3 364
GR Sd Kfz 222 9/39-5/45 x3 1940 Q2 491
GR Disciplined Spotter 9/39-5/45 x6 1941 Q2 374
GR Sandbagged Machine-Gun Team 9/39-5/45 x5 1941 Q3 309
GR sGrW 34 81mm Mortar 9/39-5/45 x6 1941 Q4 104
GR Wehrmacht Expert Sniper 9/39-5/45 x3 1942 Q1 214
GR Messerschmitt Me 110 9/39-5/45 x4 1942 Q2 480
GR 88mm Flak 36 9/39-5/45 x6 1942 Q3 514
GR Panzer II Ausf. C 9/39-12/41 x4 1943 Q2 546
GR PzKpfw 38(t) 9/39-6/42 x5 1943 Q3 801
GR Messerschmitt Bf109E 9/39-5/44 x4 1944 Q1 1201
GR Panzergrenadier 9/39-5/45 x6 1944 Q2 522
GR Sd Kfz 251 9/39-5/45 x9 1944 Q3 193
GR 20mm Flak 38 4/40-5/45 x4 1944 Q4 74
GR Fallschirmjager 4/40-5/45 x6 1945 Q1 340
GR Panzer III Ausf. F 5/40-12/41 x5 1945 Q2 80
GR sIG 33 5/40-6/43 x4
GR Elite Panzer IV Ausf. D 5/40-12/43 x5
GR Pak 38 Antitank Gun 5/40-5/45 x6
GR Panzer II(F) "Flamingo" 6/41-12/41 x5
GR SS-Panzergrenadier 6/41-5/45 x9
GR Wehrmacht Veteran Infantrymen 6/41-5/45 x12
GR SS-Haupsturmfuhrer 6/41-5/45 x1
GR Grizzled Veteran 6/41-5/45 x6
GR StuG III Ausf. D 7/41-6/43 x4
GR BMW R75 8/41-5/45 x5
GR Sd Kfz 250 8/41-5/45 x11
GR Focke-Wulf Fw 190A 9/41-5/45 x4
GR PAK 40 Antitank Gun 11/41-5/45 x6
GR MG 42 Machine-Gun Team 3/42-5/45 x13
GR Nebelwerfer 42 3/42-5/45 x4
GR SS-Panzer IV Ausf. F2 4/42-5/45 x5
GR Luftwaffe Infantrymen 5/42-5/45 x4
GR Panzer IV Ausf. G 6/42-5/45 x5
GR Marder II 7/42-5/45 x4
GR Fortress Defender 8/42-5/45 x12
GR Tiger I 9/42-5/45 x4
GR Veteran Tiger 4/43-5/45 x4
GR Junkers JU 87G Stuka 5/43-5/45 x4
GR Panzerschreck 6/43-6/44 x6
GR Panzerjager Bren 731(E) 6/43-6/44 x4
GR Panther Ausf. D 7/43-10/43 x4
GR Sturmpanzer IV "Brummbär" 7/43-5/45 x4
GR Nashorn 7/43-5/45 x4
GR Sd Kfz 234/2 "Puma" 8/43-5/45 x3
GR Panzerfaust 30 9/43-11/44 x10
GR Wehrmacht Oberleutnant 9/43-11/44 x3
GR Jagdpanther 2/44-5/45 x4
GR King Tiger 2/44-5/45 x4
GR Elefant 3/44-4/45 x4
GR Jagdpanzer IV/48 3/44-5/45 x4
GR Jagdpanzer 38(t) Hetzer 5/44-5/45 x4
GR SS-Panther Ausf. G 5/44-5/45 x5
GR Flakpanzer IV Wirbelwind 6/44-5/45 x3
GR SS Stormtroopers 7/44-5/45 x3
GR Sd Kfz 303 "Goliath" 7/44-5/45 x3
GR Messerschmitt ME 262 8/44-5/45 x4
GR Volkssturm Infantrymen 10/44-5/45 x6
GR Werwolf Partisans 10/44-5/45 x3
GR Jagdtiger 1/45-5/45 x4
GR Dornier Do 335 Apr-45 x4

JP Arisaka Rifle 12/41-8/45 x6 1937 373
JP Type 97 Antitank Rifle 12/41-8/45 x2 1939 Q2 29
JP Honor-Bound Hero 12/41-8/45 x2 1940 Q3 67
JP Type 92 Machine-Gun Team 12/41-8/45 x6 1941 Q4 108
JP Type 97 Te-Ke Tankette 12/41-8/45 x9 1942 Q1 170
JP Imperial Sniper 12/41-8/45 x2 1942 Q4 49
JP Type 87 Armored Car 12/41-8/45 x3 1944 Q4 89
JP Imperial Sergeant 12/41-8/45 x2 1945 Q2 76
JP Type 89 Mortar 12/41-8/45 x2
JP Type 95 Ha-Go 12/41-8/45 x3
JP SNLF Captain 12/41-8/45 x1
JP SNLF Fanatics 12/41-8/45 x6
JP Type 89A Chi-Ro 12/41-8/45 x3
JP Mitsubishi A6M Zero 12/41-8/45 x4
JP SNLF Paratroopers 12/41-8/45 x6
JP 47mm Type I Antitank Gun 3/42-8/45 x3
JP Type 2 Ka-Mi Amphibious Tank 3/42-8/45 x3
JP Type 1 Ho-Ni 3/42-8/45 x3
JP Type 97 Chi-Ha 3/42-8/45 x3
JP Azad Hind Fauj Infantrymen 12/42-5/45 x7
JP Kawanishi NIK-J "Shiden-Kai" 10/44-8/45 x4
JP Type 3 Chi-Nu 4/45-6/45 x3

HU 8mm Huzagol 35M 7/41-12/44 x4 1937 124
HU 37mm Light Antitank Gun 7/41-12/44 x6 1944 Q2 75
HU Tenacious Officer 7/41-12/44 x3
HU Turan I 4/44-12/44 x5

IT Fucile Modello 1891 6/40-9/43 x12 1937 286
IT Blackshirts 6/40-9/43 x8 1940 Q2 96
IT Brixia M35 45mm Mortar 6/40-9/43 x3
IT Stalwart Lieutenant 6/40-9/43 x4
IT Stalwart Hero 6/40-9/43 x2
IT L3/35 6/40-9/43 x4
IT Carro Armato M13/40 6/40-9/43 x8

ROM Antitank Grenadier 6/41-8/44 x8 1937 268
ROM Bohler 47mm Antitank Gun 6/41-8/44 x6
ROM Vigilant Lieutenant 6/41-8/44 x4
ROM R-2 LT-35 6/41-8/44 x5

M2A0

02-19-2007, 03:53 PM

Grrrrrr.... Seems that I never bothered to send the Naval spreadsheet to myself at work. I'll have to get back to you on the #'s for them in a week or so when I'm back at work again.

M2A0

02-19-2007, 03:56 PM

I'm playing the Allies. As my opponent is a Luddite and will never check this forum I don't mind posting my forces. These troop dispositions have already changed as we are 2 years into the war now. About half of my Chinese forces are dead. As well as virtually all UK naval units that were in the N. Sea.

Australia

New South Wales 15 Veteran SMLE Rifleman x3

Queensland 10 Veteran SMLE Rifleman x2

Western Australia 5 Veteran SMLE Rifleman x1

(N) Pacific Sea Zone # 14 14 Sydney x1

(N) Pacific Sea Zone # 26 14 Sydney x1

(N) Pacific Sea Zone # 33 60 Canberra x4

(N) Pacific Sea Zone # 39 14 Sydney x1

Canada
1943 Q3 42
East Canada 56 Canadian Infantrymen x9 1944 Q2 144
Eagle-Eyed NCO x3
Intrepid Hero x1

West Canada 24 Canadian Infantrymen x3
Eagle-Eyed NCO x1
Intrepid Hero x1

China
1938 Q1 55
Shanghai's Zone (find name) 21 Barbed Wire x2
Kuomintang MG Team x2
Sd Kfz 222 x1

Manchuria 36 Kuomintang MG Team x2
Sd Kfz 222 x3

Yuiyuan (sic) (West of Manchuria) 2 Kuomintang Riflemen

France
1939 56 Naval
(A) Belgium 10 Pillbox x2 1940 108 Naval
MAS 7.5mm Rifle x2 1940 Q2 60
1940 Q3 24
East France 105 Minefield x6 1941 Q2 35
Pillbox x6
MAS 7.5mm Rifle x6
Char B1-bis x3

France 173 MAS 7.5mm Rifle x3
Headquarters x1
Ammo Dump x1
Somua S-35 x6
Char B1-bis x3

Indo-China 3 MAS 7.5mm Rifle x1

Tunisia 3 MAS 7.5mm Rifle x1

Vichy France 3 MAS 7.5mm Rifle x1

(N) Revised Sea Zone # 32 9 Le Terrible

(N) Bay of Biscay 9 Le Terrible

(N) English Channel 9 Le Terrible

(N) Tyrrhenian Sea 9 Le Terrible

Poland
1940 Q2 32
East Poland 24 Cavalrymen x6

Poland 98 Minefield x1
Polish Mauser Kar 98 x8
BAR Gunner x2
Cavalrymen x6
7TPdw x5

Soviet Union
1941 Q2 227
Belorussia 24 Mosin-Nagant 1891/30 x5 1941 Q3 240
Degtyarev DP-27 x1 1941 Q4 30
Commissar x1 1942 Q2 84
1942 Q4 180
Buryatia 98 Cossack Cavalrymen x5 1943 Q2 72
BT-7 x6 1943 Q3 366
1944 Q1 132
Karelia 20 Soviet Grenadiers x5 1944 Q2 272
1945 Q2 84
Leningrad 177 Mosin-Nagant 1891/30 x9 1945 Q3 380
Degtyarev DP-27 x2
Soviet Grenadiers x5
Commissar x1
Red Army Forward Observer x1
Cossack Captain x1
82mm PM-37 Mortar x2
BT-7 x6

Soviet Far East 20 Soviet Grenadiers x5

Ukraine 160 Mosin-Nagant 1891/30 x10
Degtyarev DP-27 x2
Commissar x1
Red Army Forward Observer x1
Cossack Captain x1
82mm PM-37 Mortar x2
BT-7 x6

United Kingdom Naval 1937 - 300
1939 145 Naval
(A) Celebes 15 Bren Machine Gunner x3 1940 Q2 114
1940 Q4 125
Burma 5 Bren Machine Gunner x1 1941 20 Naval
1941 Q1 268
Eygpt 85 Vickers MG Team x6 1941 Q2 177
40mm Bofors L60 x3 1941 Q3 186
Inspiring Lieutenant x1 1942 Q2 54
1943 Q3 21
Gibraltar 8 Vickers MG Team x1 1944 Q1 96
1944 Q2 546
Hong Kong 16 Vickers MG Team x2 1944 Q4 324
1945 Q1 146
Malaya 16 Vickers MG Team x2 1945 Q2 150

Malta 16 Vickers MG Team x2 Swordfish Mk. II x4
HMS Exeter x2
Trans-Jordan 8 Vickers MG Team x1 HMS Ajax x1
HMS Hood x1
UK 73 Bren Machine Gunner x3 HMS Rodney x2
Vickers MG Team x6
Inspiring Lieutenant x1

United States Naval 1937 -178
1941 492 Naval
Aleutians Islands 4 Marine Riflemen x1 1941 Q4 20
1942 88 Naval
Eastern US 12 BAR Gunner x1 1942 Q3 220
Resourceful Hero x1 1942 Q4 884
1943 484 Naval
Gilbert Islands 48 BAR Gunner x3 1943 Q1 140
Marine Riflemen x3 1943 Q3 120
M1 81mm Mortar x2 1943 Q4 77
1944 24 Naval
Hawaiian Islands 48 BAR Gunner x3 1944 Q2 773
Marine Riflemen x3 1944 Q3 373
M1 81mm Mortar x2 1945 Q1 430

Philippine Islands 48 BAR Gunner x3 PBY Catalina x4
Marine Riflemen x3 TBD Devastator x1
M1 81mm Mortar x2 USS Salt Lake City x2
USS Tennessee x2
Marshall Islands 48 BAR Gunner x3
Marine Riflemen x3
M1 81mm Mortar x2

Midway Island 48 BAR Gunner x3
Marine Riflemen x3
M1 81mm Mortar x2

Wake Island 48 BAR Gunner x3
Marine Riflemen x3
M1 81mm Mortar x2

Western US 12 BAR Gunner x1
Resourceful Hero x1

M2A0

02-19-2007, 04:15 PM

The xl spreadsheet ended up kinda messy when I copy pasted the info. I'll try to repost the info in a slightly better format in a new thread for you.

Luthorn

02-19-2007, 04:52 PM

On your axis and allies game board how do you represent these forces? Are you using custom chits, or the actual board game pieces?

M2A0

02-19-2007, 05:23 PM

We use the A&A boardgame units to represent platoons. So for example in Poland I have 2 armor, 4 infantry, and a factory.

This represents: 2 Cav platoons, 2 Mauser Platoons, a R-35 platoon, a T7pdw platoon, and fortifications.

So I actually have roughly 22 mini units in the territory, using platoons leaves some degree of uncertainty to it. For example a armor unit could represent a single T-34 or a full platoon of 9 or 10. Keeps the enemy guessing on your true level of deployment. We keep track of our armies on paper, as we only place on the board units that can be spotted by the enemy (generally adjacent to friendly areas)

We also incorporate spy networks into this. Even though the Axis has no areas adjacent to France proper, or the Bay of Biscay, Gibraltar etc... My allied forces are on the board due to being adjacent to Spain. Same goes for Saudi Arabia (before Germany enters war), the Baltic States, Finland etc...

M2A0

02-19-2007, 05:32 PM

So here is a rough breakdown of platoon size at full strength. Note that for support weapons such as a BAR, 50mm Mortar, Officers, spotters, snipers etc we do not count towards the boardgame pieces. We only represent actual basic infantry (including SSPG, SNLF etc..) armor, & AA units on the boards.

Germany:
Infantry is generally 4 units per platoon, panzergrenadier are 3. By 44 most platoon sizes drop down to 3.

Armor is usually 5 per, except for the PzIV which is 4. Most Assault guns are 2 until 44 when they go to 4 per.

Support, most AT guns, AA etc.. are 2-3 units per platoon.

You can get all the particulars from the list I posted earlier today.

Luthorn

02-19-2007, 05:35 PM

That sounds pretty interesting to me. I was thinking about also using the A+A board game with each unit representing a possible amount of points, for example; a tank would represent 100 points in armor, but your idea sure does make the game more interesting. I am also thinking about designing my on map and using custom chits to put up on the wall.

M2A0

02-19-2007, 05:44 PM

This was the best idea I've had yet for the game. I had mostly stopped playing as of late. Now my buddy is excited about the game again, and we play at least once a week.

We have thrown all kinds of variables into the mix. Does Japan attack the Soviets in Manchuria in 39, Does the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact get signed (it was in our game). Do the Western powers give into Hitler over Czechoslovakia (Sorta, Germany was able to occupy the Sudentenland in 38. However when they tried to occupy the rest of Bohemia & Moravia, the western powers declared war. So instead of Sep 39, the Western war kicked off for us in March of 39.)

Does Germany attack Poland in Sep 39, if not does it anger the Soviets who were promised Eastern Poland.

We have also introduced concepts such as evacuating a territory with or without leaving a rearguard. Breakthroughs to represent blitzkrieg tactics. Heck during the later parts of our naval battle in the N. Sea, it was just waves of Swordfish chasing the Bismarck and friends back to German waters. I'm planning on sending some Swordfish over to Kiel and Hamburg on my next turn to finish off his ships while they sit in drydock getting repaired.

Muenchausen

02-19-2007, 05:47 PM

I use these rules for land combat. I modified them after playing them several times. http://boards.avalonhill.com/showthread.php?t=6265 I have played numerious games using this system. I also plan on revising these rules once WAS is released to include ships. What I like about this system is it is completely reliant on the A&A game as a scenerio generator. What you do on a stratigic level (Axis & Allies) has a direct influence on what happens at the tactical level ( Axis & Allies Mini's). Also how well you do on the battlefield has a direct influence on the strategic level. Hope this is what your looking for.
I thought that was a likn to the rules after I modified them. Can't seem to find them but check this out. http://boards.avalonhill.com/showthread.php?t=14336

Luthorn

02-19-2007, 05:48 PM

that sounds really fun, thanks for the ideas.

Luthorn

02-19-2007, 05:51 PM

I use these rules for land combat. I modified them after playing them several times. http://boards.avalonhill.com/showthread.php?t=6265 I have played numerious games using this system. I also plan on revising these rules once WAS is released to include ships. What I like about this system is it is completely reliant on the A&A game as a scenerio generator. What you do on a stratigic level (Axis & Allies) has a direct influence on what happens at the tactical level ( Axis & Allies Mini's). Also how well you do on the battlefield has a direct influence on the strategic level. Hope this is what your looking for.

Wow that sounds fun too, I may have to explore both of these types of campaigns and give it a shot. Thanks guys

Muenchausen

02-19-2007, 06:02 PM

Added a shortcut to my prior post. I'm trying to find my rules.

M2A0

02-19-2007, 06:03 PM

I'd post a more comprehensive list of rules I use, but I make most of them up on the fly and I'm out of time today. Be back in a week and a day for more posting goodness.

TheJudge

02-20-2007, 09:02 AM

Japanese Forces

A6M Zero x1- 12
Ha Go Forest Tank x1 9
Ka Mi Boat Tank x2 18
47 mm anti tank gun x1 7
Imperial Sergeant x1 9
SNLF Fanatics x3 21
Arisaka Riflemen x6 18
Imperial Sniper x1 8
Type 92 Machine Gun Team x1 7
Type 89 Mortar x1 4
Total deployed points- 113

Reserves- 10 Arisaka Riflemen 1 Imperial Sergeant 39 points

Navy

Shokaku Class x2 Fleet carriers Shokaku, Zuikaku
Shoho x1 Light carrier
I-19 x1 submarine
Jintsu Class cruiser x1
Tone Class Cruiser x1
Yukikaze Class Destroyer x8
Kongo Class Battleships x2 (represents Hiei, Kirishima)
Kinai Maru Merchant ships x5
Zero- x2
Kate- x2
Val- x2
Betty- x1 Land Based on Rabaul

Japanese reserves must be brought in to Guadalcanal by Merchant ship(3 troops per turn) Destroyer(2 troops per turn) or submarine (1 troop per turn) Japanese may attempt to reinforce each turn.

American Forces

Marine Captain x2 (red devil captain) 14
Bazooka x2 8
Mortar M2 x3 18
BAR Gunners x4 16
M4A1 Sherman Tank x1 21
Marine Flamethrower x2 10
Marine Riflemen x8 32
P-38 Lightning x2 (Henderson Field) 34
Total Deployed Points 153

Reserves- Marine Riflemen x6, Marine Flamethrower x2, M4A1 Sherman x1, M2 Mortar x1

Reinforcements must be brought to Guadalcanal by merchant ship, 3 per turn, Destroyer, 2 per turn, or submarine, 1 per turn. Americans can reinforce on turns 3, 5, and 7

This is about 35% more unit points than the Japanese, hardly historical but should be more balanced for game play.

American Naval Forces

USS Washington x2 (represents Washington and South Dakota)
Fletcher Class destroyers x4
USS Atlanta
USS Boise Class x2
USS Enterprise x2 (Enterpise, Hornet)
SS Jeremiah O'Brien Class merchant ships x4
USS Barb x2
F4F Wildcat x2
SBD Dauntless x2
TBD Devestator x2

Henderson Field
F4F Wildcat x2
SBD Dauntless x1

The whole scenario shows that the US has the advantage in ground forces and air power and the Japanese have a slight advantage in naval forces.

The Japanese must reinforce their garrison on Guadalcanal quickly or be overwhelmed and also must stave off the American reinforcements. I have not decided if Henderson Field is to large an advantage for balanced play yet, it will depend on the strength of land based aircraft. I also would like to give Henderson Field a defensive rating of some kind to recreate the Japanese shelling Henderson and knocking out many of the land based aircraft which allowed them to reinforce their troops.

This is just a rough draft of course and as we learn more about the strengths and weaknesses of the ships and aircraft of War at Sea, this scenario may change.

The intriguing part is rules. Basically, I don't think anything would change outside of being able to attack land bases with naval aircraft or ships. You would play this scenario by doing any naval actions as the first phase of your turn, movement, attacks, naval air phase, etc and then proceed to the land based portion of the game rules and do that accordingly.

In my vision, this would all occur on the same table and using 3D terrain but obviously, generic maps can also be used but for Guadalcanal, you obviously need maps that have a lot of jungle terrain.

Any comments are more than welcome, I am no scenario building master, just putting pen to paper of an idea.

shadowhooch

02-20-2007, 09:19 AM

Has anyone here thought about using all 5 a+a mini's sets and the WAS set to have a huge campaign, or even using it with the a+a board game? Lets here your plans guys.

Well, I play a bit more simply and abstractly than specific historical battles and campaigns. But I do play out the war year by year using all 5 sets (see Axis vs Allies - The War thread). It's pretty easy and fun to do.

The way I'm going to integrate WAS is to play it independently, year by year. Whichever side wins the Sea battle each year or at the end of 1945 will convert those leftover points to add whatever ground troops he wants.

My thought is that winning the sea battles won't win you the war; but it will provide valuable resources to you - hence the build points.

Muenchausen

02-20-2007, 09:22 AM

Judge, Are you going to include Naval bombardment? Just a thought but once one of the Navies gains control of the sea they should be able to give support to the ground pounders. Also will who ever gains control of the sea bring in reinforcements?

Muenchausen

02-20-2007, 09:29 AM

These are the rules I use.
Monster Axis and Allies Rules

Written by Comassion
Revised by Muenchausen

Basic rules:

All the standard rules of Axis and Allies Revised are unchanged in this version with exception for the rules governing land battles and national advantages. National advantages should not be used at all in this version of the game.

To clarify: Sea battles are not changed in this version. They are fought using the rules of Axis and Allies revised. When the War at Sea game is released, revised rules will follow. Unit cost’s, Strategic bombing raids and Technology rules have not changed.

Land units and Fighter Planes are the only aspect of Axis and Allies revised to undergo major revisions for this kind of play. Ground units are used to build forces with Axis and Allies Miniatures. Fighter units are used to build Air units for A&AM.

Handling land battles:

Step 1: Opening Fire: AA gun fires. Any defending AA gun involved in the combat fires at each attacking aircraft, as normal. Attacking Battleships and possibly Destroyers bombard now. Remove casualties from the board as normal. The AA gun and naval units are now done with the battle.

Step 2: Air unit attacks. Each attacking bomber fires once and each defending bomber fires once. Fighters can either participate in this attack or commit to the land battle. Remove casualties from these attacks. All Bomber units are now done with the battle. Attacking Bomber units will land in other territories as normal.

This means that an attacking force consisting entirely of Air Units will not suffer casualties from ground units. It will suffer casualties from other aircraft and AA guns for one round, and then retreat. It also means that fighters must suffer AA fire before moving to the AAM battle board.

If a defending force consists of only Bombers, they will attack for one round and then be destroyed if there are attacking land units remaining. Defending fighters can either choose to participate in this battle or fight in the land battle.

If there are no ground units remaining on one side or the other at the end of this step, the victor is the side with land units remaining (if neither side has ground units left the defender wins).

Step 3: A&A miniatures land battles.

You will fight battles by building Axis and Allies Miniatures armies. Use the point values from the corresponding pieces from the revised games contended territory. Use the setup rules for the assault scenario in the back of the rulebook, but ignore the force point values. Also ignore the objective hexes. These battles are fought until one of three conditions is met. Either the attacker or defender retreats from the battle or you reach the end of the game. For example, your fighting a battle that’s supposed to last 7 turns, if no one is annihilated or has retreated by turn 10, your locked in combat. On the following defender turn, they are allowed to add additional forces to the battle. Set up is as usual and fought as usual. This continues until one side either retreats or is annihilated. While a territory is locked in combat the owning player is not allowed to use the factory complex to bring on new units and cannot use the point value of the territory. The attacking player and the defending player on the Revised Board take the same roles on the miniatures board. Choose a map by consensus based on the general terrain of the area and the type of battle. For example, if you are invading a territory by sea you should use the beach maps. As more maps become available, try to use the appropriate map for the battle being fought. The defender decides which map to use if there is no consensus.

Building your army: You are given a certain number of points with which to build an army based on the units involved in the battle. The Axis players can only use Axis units, the Allied player can only use Allied units. These build points are restricted to be used with certain kinds of units. There is no 15-unit restriction. When forces get over 150 points, it is recommended that you use larger maps.

Infantry - 10 points of Soldiers (Mortars included) that are not AT guns.
Mechanized Infantry- 15 points of Armored cars/half-tracks/jeeps, etc… *
Artillery - 15 points of AT guns.
Tanks - 30 points of Armored vehicles.
Fighters - 25 points of aircraft.
Fortifications – 10 points of fortification (factories) units

Each unit counts for the above values. If you defend a territory with 2 tanks, 4 infantry, one artillery, one fighter and an Industrial complex, your force would be made of 60 points worth of tanks, 40 points of infantry, 15 points of AT guns, 25 points of Fighters and 10 points of fortifications.

OPTIONAL Leeway: Sometimes you want 63 points worth of tanks but only have 60. Well, you can have it. You can move your available points around at a rate of 2 for 1. So if you needed 63 points worth of tanks and you had 60 for tanks, 40 for infantry, and 15 for AT guns / Mortars, you can take 6 points from the infantry or from the artillery (or a mix of both) to get the extra 3 points for tanks. Make sure you record what points you have shifted for your leeway and where they were shifted to.

Leftovers: Points not spent are left over. Record the points you do not spend separately. You may never have more than 4 points of leftovers for any type of unit - any excess points beyond 4 are lost.

Once you have assembled your forces, fight the battle as a normal Axis and Allies miniatures battle.

Outcome on the Revised board: The attacker wins the battle if all defending forces in the territory are eliminated or retreat. Destroy all remaining defender aircraft. The territory is captured. Determine what attacking forces have survived (see below) and place them in the territory. Return Attacking aircraft to another territory. This means that it is technically possible to capture a territory and have no unit left to occupy it.

The defender wins the battle if all the attacking forces are eliminated or retreats. If for some reason he cannot retreat (as in an amphibious assault), all attacking forces are destroyed. Determine surviving defending and attacking forces and place them on the board.

During the course of battle, Neither attacker nor defender is allowed to retreat until you are halfway through the battle. If the game was agreed to go for 14 turns for example, neither player is allowed to retreat any units until the 7th turn. The retreating player then moves his units off the side of the map he started from using normal movement rules. He can still fire during the assault phase in lieu of moving. All units exited are used to determine the unit placed back on the A&A game board. The territory is surrendered to the victor and the surviving units are either retreated into an adjacent territory towards the capital if possible or returned back to the territories they attacked from.

Determining surviving forces: After the battle has been resolved, tally up the points you have left in surviving units into the appropriate categories. Damaged and disrupted units count as their full value.

Optional: Once you have tallied each value, then transfer the points spent in Leeway back to their original source at a 1:2 rate if possible. In the above example, where I transferred 6 points of infantry into 3 points of armor, I have 14 points of infantry left and 15 points of armor. I would transfer 3 points of armor back into 6 points of infantry. Resulting in 20 points of infantry and 12 points of armor.

Then add any leftovers back into your point values.

Finally, round each point type to the nearest whole value. Round down if your points are exactly halfway between two values. For example, if I'm left with 23 points of infantry, 10 points of Artillery and 15 points of armor, I would place 2 infantry (23 rounded down to 20), 1 artillery (10 rounded up to 15), and no armor (15 rounded down is 0) back on the game board.

Then continue play as normal.

Optional rules:
Date restriction: Choose a date for the war to 'begin' at, from 1939-1942. Every other turn after the US turn, advance the year by 1. Miniatures that were not available until after the current game year may not be part of your armies.

Nationality restriction: This will work better when the Eastern Front-theme set is released, but you could try it now. As best you can, restrict forces to their own nationality - German forces may only use German and Italian Minis, Americans may only use American minis, the UK may only use UK and French Minis. Russian and Japanese forces will for now need to be supplied with additional units (especially the Russians) to give them things like machineguns and anti-tank infantry.

Use a Game master: A separate player who runs the overall game and chooses the maps and armies for each land battle, to be fought by other players. Can result in more interesting and historical battles since the armies won't be able to min/max.

Chain of command: If you somehow have more than 5 people, appoint some players to be strategic commanders and others to be tactical commanders. Strategic commanders manage the A&A revised board, while tactical commanders fight the A&A Minis battles.

Multiple battles: If you have enough people, you can resolve multiple battles at once rather than sitting around. If Germany has attacked two locations, let the Japanese player take control of one of the German forces for one of the attacks.

Keep in mind that these are very preliminary, completely untested rules. Change them for your own use as you see fit, and please give me feedback, especially if you actually try this.

Muenchausen

02-20-2007, 09:34 AM

What I like about this set of rules is they are fairly simple. They also tie Axis & Allies Mini's to the Axis & Allies board game. I plan on revising these rules to include WAS once the rules are released. That way all three games will be interrelated.

I've played quite a few games using these conversion rules and they work pretty well. I can't recall any problems at this time.

TheJudge

02-20-2007, 11:56 AM

Bellerophon

02-20-2007, 02:01 PM

Naval bombardment is tricky but realistic and should be included. When the Japanese bombarded Henderson Field with their battleships, it made a big difference since they were then able to reinforce without retribution, the next time they tried it, the South Dakota and Washington were waiting and smoked them which turned the tide back to the Americans so naval bombardment played a key role.

I think I would make Henderson Field an objective so the Japanese would have an opportunity to take it and even the odds. I'll figure something out.

Think about the naval bombardment of Iwo Jima. Not only was that a serious case of naval ordance preparing the way for an assault, but the navy continued fire support of the Marines for quite a long period after the initial beach landings.

Luthorn

02-20-2007, 02:45 PM

Well, I play a bit more simply and abstractly than specific historical battles and campaigns. But I do play out the war year by year using all 5 sets (see Axis vs Allies - The War thread). It's pretty easy and fun to do.

The way I'm going to integrate WAS is to play it independently, year by year. Whichever side wins the Sea battle each year or at the end of 1945 will convert those leftover points to add whatever ground troops he wants.

My thought is that winning the sea battles won't win you the war; but it will provide valuable resources to you - hence the build points.

Yes, I like what you have done. I have been keeping up with your war for a while now, nice job!!!