Well I have something to say.....

[BasicBob]

Hello everyone,
I'm new around here. But I'm not new to miniature gaming nor for that matter am I new to the sea. I won't bore you with any more of an introduction except to say I'm old enough to remember black and white TV with NO REMOTE ! Also one thing I have learned is that its a very reassuring to have a couple of US marines watching your back in Manilla on a saturday night.

Okay anyway now WOTC is introducing you landlubbers to the sea. Excellent and from the look of things this will be a nice intro indeed. I agree with others that I have read here that WOTC continue with this game full force in to the future. Cause they have barely scratched the surface.

I must say I have one nit pick in WOTC's choices for the first set. I think the inclusion of French ships is a mistake. The bolder and better historical choice would have been to include the Dutch. Many of you have correctly stated the effort of the Dutch navy during the war in all theatres of the war. Even though the French had some wonderful ships due to circumstances beyond the French navy's control their effort was minuscule. I believe though that there inclusion has to be based on "gaming concerns" only and in that context I think WOTC will be proven right.

But in this "Set II" release ( is this diffinent by the way ?) the Dutch should have at least two spots. I'll comment more later about the choices. One more thing before I go for now. I want to thank WOTC staff for taking the time to make comments and to ask questions of us. That was nice to see in the reading I did of previous threads.

[Hum_35711]

without a remote!?!
*shakes head in disbelief.

[Joisey]

Hey. BBob! Welcome aboard! When you say you are not new to the sea. does that mean you served in the navy?

Black and white without remote. eh? Even my granparents had a Zenith with the original sound operated `clicker`.

[horacus]

Welcome sir. I hope you have a good time around here sir.

Well, in set 2, maybie 2 slots for the Dutch will work. It depends on how many units the set will have.

[Muenchausen]

Welome aboard BBob. Do you remember the first TV show you saw in color?

[BasicBob]

First TV show in color ? ( Its in color now?!) ...Gawd I don't know ...Ed Sullivan when he made the switch. Jeeez next ask what was the first article I read in Playboy !!!!!

[Joisey]

Or the first video you saw on YouTube.... ;)

[dracos42]

Greetings Bob,

I remember B&W tv without a remote too. Though I grew up in the era of color. I remember Star Trek in its original round of syndication, Dolly Parton and Dinah Shore on tv, the Mod Squad, all that. Hey Hey Hey, it's Fat Albert!

Bob, you're in Atlanta, are you a naval gamer too? I think I've seen a Bob from Atlanta on either the navwargames or the Seekrieg yahoo group.

Michael Lyons

[BasicBob]

Dracos42 thats a another Bob ( yah I know were everywhere.) I go to alot of cons during the year in relation to my business which I don't think I can mention as that would be advertising that WOTC may not like even though I don't compete with them at all, but my point being is if you go to say Recon, Origins, Historicon or Gencon you can catch me there.

[TheFoeHammer]

We had black and white TV for so long, when we watched Wizard of Oz at home for the first time we couldn't understand what Dorothy was so excited about when she got there. ;-)

[Richter von Manthofen]

I grew up and the only TV I knew for many years was my grandparents b&w.

The Dutch aree welcome to me

As is Bob :D

[Kaufschtick]

Jeeez next ask what was the first article I read in Playboy !!!!!

They have articles in Playboy?!?:D

[Autarch]

....it's better to burn out than fade away?

[Cruizin2000]

They have articles in Playboy?!?:D

And there's color T.V., plumbing, telephones, and state stores so now you can shut down that still.:D

C2000

[Muenchausen]

First TV show in color ? ( Its in color now?!) ...Gawd I don't know ...Ed Sullivan when he made the switch. Jeeez next ask what was the first article I read in Playboy !!!!!

The reason why I asked the question is because when I was a kid, it was such a big deal to all of use when the first family in our area got a color TV. Those kids parents allowed them to invite all of us to watch one 30 mionute program. There must have been 20 kids stuffed inside that living room watching that program.

[gunhawk]

First TV show in color ? ( Its in color now?!) ...Gawd I don't know ...Ed Sullivan when he made the switch. Jeeez next ask what was the first article I read in Playboy !!!!!

The first TV show that I saw in color was "Davy Crockett, King of the Wild Frontier" when it was released to theaters. The first article that I can remember reading in Playboy was The Beatles interview in '64 or '65.

Gunhawk

[gunhawk]

The reason why I asked the question is because when I was a kid, it was such a big deal to all of use when the first family in our area got a color TV. Those kids parents allowed them to invite all of us to watch one 30 mionute program. There must have been 20 kids stuffed inside that living room watching that program.

Same with us...only it was the first B&W TV on our block that I knew of. A big gang of us kids watched "Super Circus" and "Andy's Gang" on Saturday mornings. We didn't have the patience to watch more than those two shows. Too much to do outside. (-: Times sure have changed.

Gunhawk

[Photoner Hawkwind]

without a remote!?!
*shakes head in disbelief.

I was the remote for my parents black and white TV.:eek:

Fortunately I was able to inherit the B&W when they bought their first color TV in the 60's.

Does anyone remember having to go shopping with their mom to the Bakery, Butcher Shop, Dairy & Grocer before Supermarkets included them alltogether in one store?

[Henshini]

I think it's fair to say the Dutch will get ships after the Canadians do...

[Photoner Hawkwind]

I think it's fair to say the Dutch will get ships after the Canadians do...

I heard somewhere that will be in the 4th set. Just kidding.:D

[Autarch]

I was the remote for my parents black and white TV.:eek:

Fortunately I was able to inherit the B&W when they bought their first color TV in the 60's.

Does anyone remember having to go shopping with their mom to the Bakery, Butcher Shop, Dairy & Grocer before Supermarkets included them alltogether in one store?

I recall when the milkman would drop off stuff and pick up emptys. He always had his front pockets turned inside out to show he didn't carry change. lol

[Joisey]

I don't recall a time before supermarkets, and milkmen who delivered to the door were before my time too.

But I do remember the days before ATM's, personal computers, and the internet.

[Legbiter]

I think WotC staffers must have had passionate discussions about this subject, ie which of the "minor" nations to include in the first set.

First off, I do not think it was an option to concentrate solely on the major nations. To have done so would have been to reinforce the infantile delusion that war is without cost or casualties to the "good" guys. Given that basic position I think WotC made the right choice. France WAS a big power in 1939/40 [bigger than Britain] and COULD have won the war all by itself, with a more favourable political context, which is my PC way of pussyfooting around the problem of France being riddled with cowards, defeatists, pacifists, Commies and Nazis. But Britain and America had these problems, too!

I agree with you, Basic Bob, that the Dutch [neutral in 1939, forced into the war by Hitlerite invasion] Navy made a stellar contribution to the Allied side in ALL theatres right from 1940 to 1945. But they did not fight on both sides, nor did they engage in major surface battle against the USN [at Casablanca in late 1942]. This means that the French fleet is better value for scenario money than the Dutch, especially if you want to sell the game in USA.

However, fine though the Dutch fleet was, I am not sure I would put their contribution ahead of the Poles, who were the only Allied naval nation to fight from first till last [I ignore the Chinese fleet, but then so does absolutely everyone else].

[lubomirvaic]

I also have to bring the arguement that the Canadian Navy should be introduced in the 2nd set if possible. By the end of the war, the Canadians had the 3rd largest Navy in the world (behind only US and Britain). As many of mentioned, most of their ships were purchased from either Britain or the US, but they did produce a large number of ships on both coasts and the Great Lakes. The Canadian Navy was also the major participant in securing shipping lanes in the North Atlantic and they destroyed a large number of U-Boats during the war. I don't think they should have been included in the 1st set, but then again, neither should have the Aussies.

[Photoner Hawkwind]

I recall when the milkman would drop off stuff and pick up emptys. He always had his front pockets turned inside out to show he didn't carry change. lol

I always hated when we didn't order enough bottles and had to drink water for dinner instead of milk.:eek:

[Photoner Hawkwind]

I also have to bring the arguement that the Canadian Navy should be introduced in the 2nd set if possible. By the end of the war, the Canadians had the 3rd largest Navy in the world (behind only US and Britain). As many of mentioned, most of their ships were purchased from either Britain or the US, but they did produce a large number of ships on both coasts and the Great Lakes. The Canadian Navy was also the major participant in securing shipping lanes in the North Atlantic and they destroyed a large number of U-Boats during the war. I don't think they should have been included in the 1st set, but then again, neither should have the Aussies.

Those corvettes add up and they were a major reason for winning the war in the Atlantic.

[swarbs]

However, fine though the Dutch fleet was, I am not sure I would put their contribution ahead of the Poles, who were the only Allied naval nation to fight from first till last [I ignore the Chinese fleet, but then so does absolutely everyone else].

I've gotta agree with this, I couldn't believe it when I was reading about PQ17 that Polish destroyers commonly formed components of the escorts for the northern russian convoys. With Russia in control of half their country, the thoughts that were running through these guys heads must have been intense, I don't know how they persevered.