Sunk fleet before 150

[Walgers]

If one of the two fleets has been sunk before one has reached 150, is it the left over player that wins or the one with the most points at that point?

Either way, even fleets with no claiming abuility can win as long as his opponent can claim only one objective.

[Autarch]

If at any time your opponent has no units at the end of a phase, the game ends and you win. (p 7)

[Count_Ciano]

But what about fleets that have NO surviving units to occupy objectives (ie. A Catalina vs. 2 Condors)......is that a "points" win for the Condors?

[Autarch]

Yeah, it's who has the most points remaining.

[TheFoeHammer]

Yeah, it's who has the most points remaining.


Provided they can no longer harm each other either.

[Walgers]

What if I can still harm airplanes with PT boats and he does not leave his airport?

[XAos]

Then the most surviving points wins. However PT boats are not a great example, their AA is feeble.

[warspite]

I had a similiar situation yesterday, that we had to rule on. American fleet takes two of three objectives, but can't sink Bismarck. All Americans sunk except for sub. German BB and Stuka can't touch the sub, but the Bismarck can keep running indefinitely. Sub might get a 1-die torpedo attack every now and again, but maneuvering might prevent it. Americans have 140-138 points edge, and we ruled that the Germans lose, because 1) eventually, the sub would get hits, and 2) realistically, a lone BB can't stay on station with a sub lurking, and control the sea lanes. Close, but no cigar.

btw, I was the Germans, and my main mistake was not protecting my DD longer, so it could try to catch the sub. We've now determined that having at least 2 ASW, and preferably one of them a plane, immune to the sub's return fire, should be taken to protect against this. Should have taken a Kondor instead of a Stuka for my lone aircraft, for just this situation.

[XAos]

I'd go with the Bismark must loose in this position. Unless theres a island which the Bismark can keep circleing. Rules should include a clause for that. Otherwise, some cheat will try to win a tournament by taking a looong time over each move with Bismark.

[TheFoeHammer]

Yes, I think it really has to be an obvious stalemate where repeated actions would yield no results. A low chance of hitting is not a stalemate. If eventually initiative could give the sub a shot it could then cripple the Bismarck and slow it down.

But the other examples, like a PT boat and a plane. If the player of the plane has no desire or intention to fly, its a stalemate. Or if a PT boat plans to just sit on an island to avoid the enemy, you just call it at some point.

[zaarin7]

In tournament situation their would be a time limit so at that point I would think a points count, survivors + kills + objectives would rule for winning. Ties in points could be handled by the person having the most objectives. Ties in points and objectives etc would have to be specified.

[Thunderjp]

Suppose that my entire force is comprised of units that can't take objectives. My opponent captures 2 objectives, gaining 100 points. I then sink their entire fleet... also 100 points. I do not lose a single unit.

Is it a draw or do I win?

[XAos]

P.33, last sentence;
If, at any time, a player has no units left at the end of an attack phase, the game ends and the other player wins.
So you win. Your opponent could have 149 points at that stage & you would still win.

If your opponent has at least one unkillable unit (e.g. a land based plane that refuses to leave base) Then you cannot win by that rule. And P.15;
it may be possible to reach a stalemate before one player wins the game. (For example, if one player has only Submarines remaining while the other player has only Fighters remaining.) In cases where the game has reached a stalemate, the player with the most points worth of units remaining is the winner.
May be the only way to determine the winner.

Note that in both these rules, points from objectives are worthless unless you reach the full 150 points.

[warspite]

Hmm. Area denial strategy. Take only bombers or subs, and destroy the opponent before he can capture objectives. Interesting. I was thinking along those lines, but I don't have enough to try it yet (I guess I could proxy). Kondors spotting for a U-boat swarm would be nasty. Eight U 510s with 2 Kondors alternating. Need LOTS of ASW.

Game balance issues should be investigated at each number of points: 1, 2, 3, 5-hundred.