1939-1945 SET: What could we expect?

[FSSF]

With the news about the 2007 release schedule, we now know that the next set will be 1939-1945. Many speculations about this set. Not really a brand new one as it is announced as consisting of "Fan favourites" units pulled from the last five sets, with "new abilities" and/or (?) "paint jobs"...

If you have no idea what I'm talking about, go read this first:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=ah/aam/ah20070328c

So we know we will be getting a (green?) uncommon T-34.
And a long-barreled (grey) Panzer III?
And since Tank Commander are announced, we will certainly get a Sherman Command tank

But which other units will be reinterpreted?/rebooted?

Seems to me as the 1939-1945 set is a one that was designed to be easy and fast to produce, so they could get a "new" set out as soon as possible. So, no new sculpt/mold aside from minor adjustment (turret or barrel lenght change/substitution). All WOTC has to do is come up with new stat cards and call for new colors on existing units. That can be done within a short timeframe. Designing new units with brand new sculpts takes much more time (hence the december release date for the North Africa set).

So here's the pitch.
Submit ideas for new units using minis from the last 5 sets.
What would you like to see with the known limits in mind?

[FSSF]

To start you up, here are a few that came to me:
(units have the same stats and abilities as originals unless noted)

AUSTRALIA
Veteran Bren Machine Gunner
Cost:6
Covering Fire; Steely Resolve; Tough
Explanation: Australia's national flavour of battle-forged tough soldiers continued.

CANADA
Canadian Valentine
Cost: 17
Robust
Explanation: Giving a little more tougness to the sturdy Valentine and giving the Canadians a non-DD (and overcosted) tank.

Canadian Machine-Gun Team
Cost: 9
Double Shot;
Esprit de Corps: As long as there is another Canadian soldier adjacent, this unit may reroll a single attack dice.
Explanation: A little something to favor national builds

UK
Veteran Crusader
Cost: 15 points
Vanguard; Prone to Breakdown; Crackshot
Explanation: Played too much of Call of Duty 2 on my X-Box 360; plus brits deserve some elite tanks of their own.

"Red Devil" PIAT Gunner
(trim the helmet's rim of the original PIAT and paint it red to look like a beret?)
Cost: 9
Paratrooper
Explanation: "A Bridge Too Far" is one of my favorite war movies.


US
Veteran M3 Stuart
Cost: 18
All Guns blazing; Veteran Crew
Explanation: US should have their own M3 Stuart, after all, they were the ones to build the darn thing dammit! And since it's a national tank, they should have more training/experience with it.

Recon Jeep
(using the 4 points Jeep with MG from the first set)
Cost: 6
Recon Jeep: This unit gains +1 to all movement rolls and +1 to cover rolls.
(No Transport!)
AS: 9/8/6, AV: 2/2/2
Explanation: "Rat Patrol" was my favorite show as a kid! If low-silhouette tanks can get "Hard to Spot", I don't see whey a jeep couldn't get a cover bonus; And jeeps were made to go anywhere, so a bonus to mouvement rolls is a must ("Robust" didn't make sense because of the 1 mouvement when disrupted)

Marines Sergeant
(using Thompson Gunner mini with different paint scheme: green uniform instead of tan and Camo helmet instead of black?)
Cost: 6
Limited Range 2 (AS: 9/7/0)
Gung Ho!
Initiative +1
Suppressive Fire
Semper Fi: adjacent Marines soldiers ignore the -1 penalty on each attack die when disrupted
Explanation: Marines deserve their own commander dammit!

GERMANY
Veteran Panzer II
(feldgrau or grey colored?)
Cost: 10
Excellent Suspension; Seasoned Crew; Covering Fire
Explanation: The Panzer II was an important unit of early war Germany and almost never see play in this game. Someone else on this board suggested adding a "Covering Fire" SA to build it up and I though it was an excellent idea.

JAPAN
Veteran Ha-Go
Cost: 12
Forest Runner; Poor Suspension; Forest Camouflage; Crack Shot
Explanation: Japan had already been fighting in China since the early thirties when WW II officially started, some of those tank crews must have developped into pretty good shots by the time 1939 rolled in.

ROMANIA
T-4 (Panzer IV)
(fledgrau colored Panzer IV)
Cost: 26
Extended Range 10
Unexperienced crew: Cannot move while disrupted
Explanation: Germany lended a few Panzer IV to Romania for a very short period (in 1943 or 44?).

Romanian StuG III
Cost: 14
Fixed Howitzer; Transport
(No "Seasoned Crew")
Explantion: Give the Axis a tank with Transport already! The flat top of the StuG made for an excellent transport surface.

[Rognar65]

I would like to see a Tiger I and a Guards T-34 as commanders.

[Sheppard1972]

Don't forget the Stuka with different attack stats with a 39 year. :D

[Remember-OWS-]

I would like to see a Tiger I and a Guards T-34 as commanders.

Panthers are more lilkely to be Command tank for a reasonable price.

[FSSF]

The thing that scares me with Command tank is that will we get some with "false" gun or removed guns?
As you know, a lot of command tank had their gun removed since the commander didn't have time to command his own tank, he was there to direct the other tanks. Some had "false" guns instead that couldn't shoot but could make the command tank pass as just another tank.

[Surfer_Sam]

How about this:
Renault Tank Commander-1939
AI- 6/6/4
AT- 8/7/5
---SAs---
Intiaitve +1
En Masse!- Adjancent french troops and and tanks gets +1 on movement
Trench Crossing

Explanation- I want a french tank commander. And I want the ability to move my Renaults amd MAS rifles at my enemy faster. And I like to yell En Masse!

[wilson2]

these new units could work with current minis

[Qmark]

Elite Veteran SS Panzergrenadier?
Seems to me as the 1939-1945 set is a one that was designed to be easy and fast to produce, so they could get a "new" set out as soon as possible.This really isn't that bad of an idea, and it's a mystery to me why they hadn't just kit-bashed all of the current Sherman variants.

[Diamondback]

I still want a unique Patton Sherman and Rommel Panzer with highpowered commander-effects and a "lose this unit, lose the fight" SA.

[carl_brisgamer]

Veteran Panzergrenadier (Common)

GE 1942 Soldier 6 points
Defence 4/4
AS 9/7/0
AV 2/0/0

Close Assault (8)

Mechanised Tactics

Steely Resolve 2

In 1942 the Wehrmacht's motorised infantry were redesignated as Panzergrenadiers. Despite this title only ten percent of Panzergrenadier battalions were actually equipped with armoured halftracks, the remainder forced to use soft-skinned vehicles.

This unit would at least make Wehrmacht Panzergrenadiers playable, and would be useful in the very popular Grossdeutschland scenarios.

[FSSF]

Don't forget the Stuka with different attack stats with a 39 year. :D

I didn't forget it, I assure you. :)
This is THE plane I want to see in North Africa set.
I figure, our current cannons-armed Stuka would be too much different from what the 1939 dive-bombing would look like to produce as is.

[FSSF]

How about this:
Renault Tank Commander-1939
AI- 6/6/4
AT- 8/7/5
---SAs---
Intiaitve +1
En Masse!- Adjancent french troops and and tanks gets +1 on movement
Trench Crossing

Explanation- I want a french tank commander. And I want the ability to move my Renaults amd MAS rifles at my enemy faster. And I like to yell En Masse!

"En Masse" might be the wrong name for a french commander tank SA.
The French philosophy about tank warfare was just the opposite, that's one of the many reasons they failed against german blitzkrieg. French spread their tanks along the line. Germans (Guderian) were the ones who believed in massing tanks in a big punching actions.

[FSSF]

I still want a unique Patton Sherman and Rommel Panzer with highpowered commander-effects and a "lose this unit, lose the fight" SA.

Sorry, but not going to happen.
First, I don't see unique units with named commander in this game.

Second, neither Patton or Rommel ever commanded their own tank.
Most of the time, Patton rode in a jeep.
Rommel rode had various command car.
I remember reading (in his biography) that he also flew in a spotter plane during the North Africa campaign.

[NorthernRommel]

Sorry, but not going to happen.
First, I don't see unique units with named commander in this game.

Second, neither Patton or Rommel ever commanded their own tank.
Most of the time, Rommel rode in a jeep.
Rommel rode had various command car.
I remember reading (in his biography) that he also flew in a spotter plane during the North Africa campaign.

Emmm Rommel did command from a tank -- A Panzer III in fact during the France 1940 campaign.

[FSSF]

Emmm Rommel did command from a tank -- A Panzer III in fact during the France 1940 campaign.

Well, not in the biography I have at home.
It's a french hardocver part of a series on the greatest military leaders.
"Rommel" by Pierre Langlois, Pierre Guillemot and Claude-Paul Pajard, published in 1972 by Éditions de la Crémille.

Nowhere in the chapter about the Campaign of France, when Rommel commanded the 7th Panzer division, is there a mention of Rommel ever riding a tank, let alone commanding one.

He either rode a "Command-Car" or a "signal truck" (camion de signalisation) that was "escorted by a Panzer III". The book contain much of Rommel own writing (letters to his wife) and he goes in a lot of interesting details, but nowhere does it mention he was inside a Panzer III or any tank. He was riding at the very front of the 25th Panzer Regiment most of the campaign, but not in a tank. Not according to my sources anyway.

Also, I have may pictures of Rommel. None of him in or on a tank. As he had the reputation to be always open to any photo opportunities, you'd think they would be at least one of him in a tank turret, even just for a photo-op?

Could you give me your reference or source?

[FSSF]

Veteran Panzergrenadier (Common)

GE 1942 Soldier 6 points
Defence 4/4
AS 9/7/0
AV 2/0/0

Close Assault (8)

Mechanised Tactics

Steely Resolve 2

In 1942 the Wehrmacht's motorised infantry were redesignated as Panzergrenadiers. Despite this title only ten percent of Panzergrenadier battalions were actually equipped with armoured halftracks, the remainder forced to use soft-skinned vehicles.

This unit would at least make Wehrmacht Panzergrenadiers playable, and would be useful in the very popular Grossdeutschland scenarios.

I like it. A little more power than the ridiculous 7/5 anti-soldier numbers the original Panzergrenadier got (??!!!) :eek: .
Even then, I would not bet on the Panzergrenadier to see much play outside scenarios with a 6 point costs. Now, if there was a cheap german equivalent of the jeep... :D Something like those "soft-skinned vehicles" you mention...

[Diamondback]

Most of the time, Patton rode in a jeep.
Rommel rode had various command car.
I remember reading (in his biography) that he also flew in a spotter plane during the North Africa campaign.

I knew they weren't tank drivers, just thought it'd be an alternate-history way to give them the duel both craved.

And Patton's preferred ride was a Dodge WC56 or WC57 usually, BTW.

Monty liked Fieseler Storchs, too, and appropriated one of the few captured birds for his own use.

[FSSF]

I knew they weren't tank drivers, just thought it'd be an alternate-history way to give them the duel both craved.

And Patton's preferred ride was a Dodge WC56 or WC57 usually, BTW.

Monty liked Fieseler Storchs, too, and appropriated one of the few captured birds for his own use.

Well The WC57 is a kind of pimped up jeep. :cool:
And I didn't know Monty used a captured german plane.
So much for the trust into his Majesty's own RAF planes...
Thank you for the info. :)

[Anubis]

Guys come on, this is WoTC giving us the properly modeled Spitfire!

[Cruizin2000]

Guys come on, this is WoTC giving us the properly modeled Spitfire!

"Give"??? We had to buy the Spitschmitt and I'm sure we'll have to buy a Spitfire as well. Think of it as an opportunity to buy the corrected version. You pay for their mistake.:cool:

C2000

[Anubis]

Well give us as in use up one of the slots for the set which could have been filled with a different unit, ie not admitting their mistake.

[Diamondback]

Well The WC57 is a kind of pimped up jeep. :cool:
And I didn't know Monty used a captured german plane.
So much for the trust into his Majesty's own RAF planes...
Thank you for the info. :)

Quite welcome. Not so much non-trust as the Storch's head-and-shoulders superiority over every other STOL in the world at the time, even the Lysander. 70' landing roll in some cases, IIRC...:eek:

If I had been a commander in the ETO, I mighta even tried to "go commando" and ripoff a Storch for myself... (Hey, "war trophy", right?;) )

[Vepr]

Well, not in the biography I have at home.
It's a french hardocver part of a series on the greatest military leaders.
"Rommel" by Pierre Langlois, Pierre Guillemot and Claude-Paul Pajard, published in 1972 by Éditions de la Crémille.

Nowhere in the chapter about the Campaign of France, when Rommel commanded the 7th Panzer division, is there a mention of Rommel ever riding a tank, let alone commanding one.

He either rode a "Command-Car" or a "signal truck" (camion de signalisation) that was "escorted by a Panzer III". The book contain much of Rommel own writing (letters to his wife) and he goes in a lot of interesting details, but nowhere does it mention he was inside a Panzer III or any tank. He was riding at the very front of the 25th Panzer Regiment most of the campaign, but not in a tank. Not according to my sources anyway.

Also, I have may pictures of Rommel. None of him in or on a tank. As he had the reputation to be always open to any photo opportunities, you'd think they would be at least one of him in a tank turret, even just for a photo-op?

Could you give me your reference or source?


He did command from a tank in France. He was actually wounded in the cheek I believe when his tank was hit and the driver crashed down a hill. He and the rest of the crew had to bail out. There is an account of it in his own words on the net. I have it bookmarked at home. I will post it tonight.

[Vepr]

Found it.

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/blitzkrieg.htm

[FSSF]

Found it.

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/blitzkrieg.htm

Thanks for the info Vepr!
Always happy to learn something new about Rommel.
I stand corrected.:o

[Sheppard1972]

Found it.

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/blitzkrieg.htm

I enjoyed this read as well so THANK YOU VERY MUCH.:D

[DarkMercy]

They could stat the Stalwart Hero as an Italian machine-gun unit. I'd love anything that beefs up my Italians.

[wkko]

Monsquito......

[Kimblee_Clone]

Anything (for gods' sakes: ANYTHING) for Canada, as we currently have just under the number of units ITALY has (in the game), and Italy gave up halfway through, and the Americans (who joined in multiple years after Canada did!) currently have at least 40% of all the Allied units.

We could use a Canadian Firefly, though...

[Anubis]

Lets not beef guys, the Australians have ONE unit. Lets see some more of them if we are clammering for new units.