Pumas...

[oddfellow]

Anyone using these units to good effect? Any particular units that you have found comliment the Puma well? I've got 4 but have yet to really use them. I've had a few played against me, they made my tanks nervous, but ultimately I had enough mobile units to get behind them and force a confrontation. They seem like pretty cool units to use, but a wee bit fragile, especially with planes. anyone have a good way to protect them? Not a tournament player, so considerations should be made for "friendly" play where a variety of units are used, not just the elites.

[Anubis]

The 222 keeps up well with it, along with the BMW. For fun play just make an all mobile list. See how it does.

[Khayman7]

I've used them to good effect in larger games on big maps where you can really exploit their speed on roads. Their speed and the strike and fade ability make them good harrassing units. If your enemy doesn't account for them moving quickly in for rear shots or to hit weaker support units like Priests etc...then its a bonus. If they overreact and charge them dividig their forces then you can then move in with heavier units to trap them.

As you mentioned they don't see much tournament play, and airplanes are the death of them. Not to mention the point cost! They are a lot of fun though if you want to experiment and challenge yourself IMHO.

[Predator666]

I love the Puma. I used 1 in a friendly game. It actually helped me take down a Pershing that got to close to city combat. With it's speed and careful movement I was able to bring it around behind and throw 12 dice and tear it up. A W.O.LT helped out some too with his friend the Panzershrek.....It is a really good recon element, used to exploit holes in enemy defences, break holes in enemy defenses or tie up as many units as possible. I think at most it should have been 20 points though.

As for against planes, either keep them in cover as much as possible or make a beforehand rule with your opponent not to use planes. That way they have a pretty good survival chance as long as you play them right.

[Cpt. John Miller]

Not worth the cost. I would take a hetzer and the change EVERY TIME instead of this overpriced peice of junk. The hetzer has more AT dice and is much more surviveable with better armor and a bonus on cover saves.

[Surfer_Sam]

I find these thing can be take out be almost every aircraft there is

[thommieh]

Not to mention it is a pretty nice mini (except for the huge bar on the front), I really like it. It's bit expensive, but hell if every mini I use should be cost effective I might aswell throw 70% of my mini's out.

[Colonel_Coo]

too much cost.

With such a weak armor rating you must have a cost that is LOWER than any plane with Rockets.

[Y2UAsk]

The 'problem' with lots of WW2 units is that they were built for specific purposes, and those purposes were very often not tangling with tanks at short range -- which is what pretty much every AAM game involves. In that environment, light, special-purpose units such as armored cars and halftracks find themselves at a fatal disadvantage. In scenarios built around their intended use, they rock.

Steve

[Uncle_Joe]

I think Pumas are just fine if there are no enemy aircraft present. They have an awful lot of AT firepower for a unit with Strike and Fade. Given the typical German advantage in intiative, it makes quite a combo.

[oddfellow]

Lots of good imput guys. I'm not so worried about cost effectiveness as I'm more into trying new armies (even if they suck) and trying to solve the "puzzle" of how to make every piece usefull. I actually won with a french tank army, which was a blast to use my 5 char Bis tanks in a 200 point game. I agree that the Hetzer is a better unit (Cpt Miller), but I try to avoid using the same units all the time. Hetzers and Stug III were my meat and taters for a long time and I'm trying to branch out. My next mission is to squeeze some effectiveness out of the not very cost effective spotter/mortar/plane combo. I've always wanted to use that extra dice modifier for planes, but its hard to get spotters into position without getting killed.

[Surfer_Sam]

French tbaks are the best. I once took down a tiger with 10 Renaults. That was fun

[Colonel_Coo]

Well with the previous statement then you are on the right path.

Your army you build should WANT TO GO FIRST. That means you need to get all teh Strike and Fade units you can. For Germany that means the SD KFZ 222. Yes, you are in trouble when you consider playing the 222.

Next is the SS HF. A must for its +3 initiative bonus.

I like Paratroopers in a "Go first army build". So bring in a few.

If you bringing in troops, you might as well bring in a Hero. In with a GE Hero.

Next is the ulitmate exploiter: the WW Partisan. The German bugger throws 9 dice at short range and deploys in the back field.

Next is aircraft: Aircraft on aircraft battles favor the person going Second. Please consider playing 0 aircraft. By goign first you will forever be out of position with your planes. If you do go first, try the DO 335 plane.

If you go with no aircaft, I like the 20mm FlaK. solid AA values and AI values. Weak but functional AT for killing enemy light vehicles. With a speed 2 you can always walk them forward.

Speaking of walking forward. You might consider the Sniper/Pak-40 combo. Placed in front of the SS HF, they can make a real treo of AT action. Also with that option is the Romanian Officer, the 88M and Pillboxes.

Pillboxes are good for your soldiers if you bring them. At the prices you're paying you're not going to get 15 shooters. Might as well make your units survive to be revived by the SS HF at the start of the next turn.


Well thats my thoughts.

[oddfellow]

Well thats my thoughts.

Those are some quality thoughts Colonel :D

[Malaky]

Well the pumas sees quite a lot of use in our games. One of my friend is especially fond of playing it. Sometimes like 3 at a time... Anyway, they make great target for planes. When they are on the road they can be a pain in the a** but flush them out and send them in the grass and now that "strike and fade 1" seems a bit less useful.

A tetrarch or a M22 Locust works well if you play UK... The attack dice on the puma is quite high for a small tank like that but the armor is nothing.

EDIT: WOOO 100 posts!!! yay!

[Tripwire]

I don't mind playing units that seem weak or ineffective because there WERE units that were no match for (fill in the blank), but that is what they had and that is what they had to fight with.
I play for fun, and as long as it is only plastic blood that is spilled,:) I'll take some chances...

[Rick]

I do not always play the Puma exactly because of the plane threat. But when I do play it, I have fun playing the head game of 'will he, or won't he.' The piece is so fast and it's 'Strike and Fade' can make it 'un-hitable'. This is one of those pieces where the threat of using it is at least as useful as the actual using of it.

Have fun playing it and watch your opponent either over extend himself, OR slow his assult way down. Heck, even IF he sends a plane against it, then at least that plane is not going after something else of yours, like your tank advancing on the objective.

[Volorkey]

I have four, I like them however because I usually play 100 point games I almost never play them because of the cost. However I have decided they are an awful lot of fun to paint.