"Fun" build

[boersma8]

OK, here's a "fun" build for the Japanese against the Chinese:

Japanese: 10 times SNLF fanatics ( 70 points)
1 time: MG ( 7 points)
1 time mortar ( 9 points)
1 time SNLF captain ( 7 (?) points)
2x Ariska

Well, you can even put in some more fanatics instead of the other additional units. My point is: this Japanese army would be completely unbeatable for a 100% Chinese army. Agreed the battle would be boring like hell, but if winning is all you care about....

Who actually played/ faced a fanatics horde?

[Heir_Ludendorff]

Why not use this;

8x SNLF Para
10x Type 87 Machine Gun

Drop the para in a position to deal with MG's and have the 20 shots from the MG's to kill 15-20 Infantry a turn since you only need to disrupt to kill them, ie. Cover is useless.

[boersma8]

Why not use this;

8x SNLF Para
10x Type 87 Machine Gun

Drop the para in a position to deal with MG's and have the 20 shots from the MG's to kill 15-20 Infantry a turn since you only need to disrupt to kill them, ie. Cover is useless.

Not a bad idea either! The difference I can think of is that against the army you're proposing, the Chinese would get some kills of their own in too. Against " mine" ( I'd never even dream of playing it! Boring and cheesy!), the Japs probably wouldn't lose a single unit! ( which is good in the online campaign!)

Hope the Chinese will get a Warhawk, mortar, AT piece and a better officer in the next couple of sets.........Well, some time anyway........

[boersma8]

Oh yeah, and an anti-air piece too! Maybe even a " Communist hero" ( not that I'm that fond of heroes, but since all the other nations have them too.....)

[Heir_Ludendorff]

So for a not so cheesy fun build mine is the way to go, if you just want to slaughter the poor, poor chinese yours is. :D

[Orcusb]

There are always two sides here.

The Chinese in this scenario get 110 points.

The Chinese may field 19 kuomintang machineguns. Additionally they may use their special abilities to move the objective, and choose sides. There are some maps that have an awful lot of clear terrain to traverse. You tell me how many hexes can your 10 fanatics travel under the fire of 38 machinegun shots.

The best answer to the Chinese MG is not the japanese MG, it is actually the sniper. At a range of 2 they cannot be attacked by the Kuomintang, while they are equally effective at any range.

So my anti Chinese force would have 5 or 6 snipers, several MGs, and something to kill the tank, a pair of Zeros perhaps. The MGs can kill the tank with its 2 armor if required.

Another reason to like snipers, they can occupy the objective, and require the Chinese to assault at point blank due to the superior camouflage. If both forces are well thought out, it turns into an interesting game. I believe however, that in this case, the Chinese have an advantage.

[boersma8]

You tell me how many hexes can your 10 fanatics travel under the fire of 38 machinegun shots.
.

Quite a few I'd say....

If I'm not mistaken the chinese MG has a soldier attack value of 8/7//6 ( correct me if I'm wrong, don't have the statcard at hand...). Even at close range you'd need to get quite lucky to get in 6 (!) shots ( for a kill). A disruption won't do much since it will disappear due to hard charger.....

Is it realsitic that they can just walk into 19 MG's firing at them? Hell no, but with ten fanatics I'd sure take my chances and don't forget thjere are still 29 points left to buy Japanese mortars, MG's, snipers or whatever.

Last but not least, some of those Chinese MG's are bound to overheat, which will also reduce their " effectiveness" severely....

[Orcusb]

Heh heh I was just looking at the ammo dump for the chinese. Maybe add in a few Bar Gunners, or a Headquarters with a red devil captain.

RD Captain
4 Bar Gunners
HQ
Ammo dump
11 Kuomintang MG


With the inclusion of the Americans, there is really no point in bothering with the regular soldiers or leaders, while you did specify an all Chinese force originally, I think that this force mix is pretty tough. The MGs will cut down any of the pre '42 tanks, or the zero without much trouble. And with 11 MGs should kill 2 of the fanatics a turn, any turn the Chinese get initiative the BAR gunners will shut down 4 more. I think it is pretty tough. I don't say that the Chinese are unbeatable, in fact not at all. I just think that it will be a lot tougher than you think.

[boersma8]

Heh heh I was just looking at the ammo dump for the chinese. Maybe add in a few Bar Gunners, or a Headquarters with a red devil captain.

RD Captain
4 Bar Gunners
HQ
Ammo dump
11 Kuomintang MG


With the inclusion of the Americans, there is really no point in bothering with the regular soldiers or leaders, while you did specify an all Chinese force originally, I think that this force mix is pretty tough. The MGs will cut down any of the pre '42 tanks, or the zero without much trouble. And with 11 MGs should kill 2 of the fanatics a turn, any turn the Chinese get initiative the BAR gunners will shut down 4 more. I think it is pretty tough. I don't say that the Chinese are unbeatable, in fact not at all. I just think that it will be a lot tougher than you think.

Yes, the ammo dump might help ( an easy counter would be a zero!). Don't expect it to last long, though! Even when rerolling ones, especially at medium and long ranges the fanatics still won't have anything to fear.

Yes, I am talking about a 100% Chinese builds. Adding Americans into the mix makes for an entirely different ballgame and is beside the point of my post. Of course other than that it's a very good build! ( The Battle ticket also specifically states 100% UNLESS you don't have enough pieces......) ( Which will be the case for most of us, I guess, although I'd choose to use proxies ( Vickers, Mosins, French infantrymen, rather than using Americans....Well, the first tiem at least. Adding some Americans would probably make for a much more interesting fight!)

[Richter von Manthofen]

MY 100 100% Chinese won (I do have enough pieces 120 points of inf alone :D)

Decided not to allow SNLF (its an inland battle - no space for Navy guys...)

Many MGs (with ammo dump - virtually a free pice in a 110 points setup) are really nice, also having lots of KMTs simply swamped the possible shots of Japanese builds. KMT simply won by managing to kill all japanese on/adjacent to the objective in turn 10

[boersma8]

MY 100 100% Chinese won (I do have enough pieces 120 points of inf alone :D)

Decided not to allow SNLF (its an inland battle - no space for Navy guys...)

Many MGs (with ammo dump - virtually a free pice in a 110 points setup) are really nice, also having lots of KMTs simply swamped the possible shots of Japanese builds. KMT simply won by managing to kill all japanese on/adjacent to the objective in turn 10

Im afraid I'm a few Chinese short ( traded many of them away). I do have 4 of their tanks, though, but the Chinese don't have enough vehicle points to use them....

Figured the same thing about the SNLF people, but of course that doesn't mean that someone cannot (ab)use them, since it's not in the scenario rules nor in the standard rules that they cannot be used.....

Ammo dump can be easily taken out by a zero and/or a few paras ( remember: " Highly flammable). If you didn't use paras either, because they're also SNLF you only have the Zero or the MC Donald's delivery trucks to deal with them...;)

[Heir_Ludendorff]

I soloed the chinese last night.... It was a massacre to the "n"th degree, I proxied the entire force but the chinese build was
1 Useless Officer (5)
1 Sorry Excuse for a Tank (11)
7 Mediocre MG's (42)
26 Meat Shield Infantry (52)

Total 110 pts 35 Models..... Rolling Tiger Heaven for the map made it even sweeter when the Japanese didn't have cover to keep them alive during the assault phase....:(

[Orcusb]

I don't think that the chinese MG is really mediocre. It's the cheapest in the game at 6pts, and yet still gets double-shot. In the game my group played, we had 14 of them. The SNLF guys were disrupted or killed trying to cross the open. Fine that they have hard charger, but disruption still stops their movement outside of the hex. We had zeros in some games, and with the exception of some really poor die rolling they tended to die on turn one. Add in some other nation's stuff and this scenario becomes tough for the Japanese.

[Heir_Ludendorff]

I notice you didn't have any comments on the title given to the other units. :D

[Orcusb]

I soloed the chinese last night.... It was a massacre to the "n"th degree, I proxied the entire force but the chinese build was
1 Useless Officer (5)
1 Sorry Excuse for a Tank (11)
7 Mediocre MG's (42)
26 Meat Shield Infantry (52)

Total 110 pts 35 Models..... Rolling Tiger Heaven for the map made it even sweeter when the Japanese didn't have cover to keep them alive during the assault phase....:(

Heh Heh, The only reason I included any of the officers and infantry, is that the rules said I was supposed to use all of my chinese forces. I suppose that one officer is ok, a +1 is better than nothing. I included one tank, but I confess that it was a matter of Psyops on my part. I knew that some of the people would see it, and send anything they had to kill it. By dying valiantly, the tank (if it can realistically be called that) accounted for 2 zeros that foolishly entered attack range of the MGs. Also of course, I was required to field as many chinese as I could by the scenario. I do however have to disagree with the term "meat shield" for the infantry. They died so darned fast that they didn't shield anything. What they ended up in our game was sniper chasers. I would prefer to have the snipers kill the swarm coming after them rather than the MGs that were really doing damage.

[Cpt. John Miller]

I faced a wall of lead that was eight Kum MGs and I didn't even make a scratch. Don't even try to mess with the Chinese on urban combat. Lifting the unit limit is like opening a floodgate, and the Japanese have no bombard/blast units to mop up the mobb with.

[Orcusb]

I have not yet tried to fight the blitz type of battle, also when the japanese get into 1942, and get some of the better units, I would love to revisit this. The Chinese really do suck. They are showing so well in this because they do not need to worry about unit limits, as Cpt Miller said, and that the Japanese have such a small list of units that are legal. This is a game of dice. The side that manages to throw the most wins on a high percentage basis. Of course thats how it should be, as in real life, the side with the most bullets usually wins ;). (Before everyone flames me consider it bullets at the Schwerpunkt). If we allow the Japanese to take an armored unit with a three defense, what does that do to the dynamic. Add in the SNLF Paras and a blitz will be fun to play, I think.

[SergentTibo]

Oh yeah, and an anti-air piece too! Maybe even a " Communist hero" ( not that I'm that fond of heroes, but since all the other nations have them too.....)

O MY GOD !!!

Someone who thinks like me.

I think I'm about to cry

[SergentTibo]

Did you guys forgot the sd Kfz 222.
A Kuomintang unit under AAM rule