Anti Fighter Builds?

[Greyh Seer]

As someone once said "long time reader, first time poster."

That being said let me move to my point. I have only recently joined in this game and I can't say enough about how much I love it. However, I run into the problem where it is almost impossible to find any boosters!

This is a universal problem, I know, but here is my dilemma. I am playing lots of games where I can field a decent force, but anytime I take air power at all, I run into zekke's and wildcats. I do not have any fighters to speak of, so I find myself loosing massive amounts of air power to these enemy fighters without any real way to counter them.

So my question is this: How do I build a fleet with offensive air power without any fighters and make it successful?

[Cinnibar]

What you're asking is very, very difficult. Your best options are fielding more aircraft than your opponents, but without fighters, you're likely to keep air superiority for only a short time unless you immediately destroy an enemy's carriers.

If you don't have fighters, focus instead on fielding a fleet with excellent AA fire capability... ships with 6+ dice (paired) in an effort to protect your assets. The Atlanta (two attacks at 8 dice) is invaluable to an air-free build in most cases. The Iowa (9 dice) also packs enough of a punch to eliminate enemy aircraft from the sky.

The only thing I can suggest to achieve successful offensive attack is deploy bombers in groups of four in a single sector. If I had five Dauntless dive bombers, I might only throw four out a turn because I want to maximize the chance of a successful strike in a single sector, not dilute my efforts across two or more sectors. If I only deploy four, and I don't care where my opponent deploys fighters, I'm ok.

One bomber that offers a beneficial ability for offensive-only air forces is the Devestator. With the "Draw the Cap" ability, it can potentially divert enemy fighters to shoot at it first, while your more valuable aircraft continue on to the target with less resistance. A Devestator with several Swordfish or a Devestator with three Dauntlesses is a decent combination to use as an offensive force if you're expecting enemy fighter resistance.

Your final option, strange as it may seem, is to hold your bombers in reserve until your surface assets are point-blank with the enemy. At least at that point, you can shoot at the enemy's fighters with your surface ships if they attack your bombers. It don't highly recommend this tactic, but it can probably be pulled off in extreme conditions.

[Autarch]

You don't. You build a fleet that is impervious to fighters, namely subs and battleships, and laugh at your opponent's now useless fighters.

If you really want fighters, you could

1) pay retail prices for the few booster cases left online
2) pre-order cases to be released in July/August (and wait)
3) check out the Marketplace forum and trade for them

[Joisey]

I think your question is the Existential, Ultimate Question for the German Fleet. They too have to put together a winning fleet with no fighter cover.

I can't improve on the three suggestions already made:

Sub/BB's that laugh off fighters
Have an airforce so large that he can't cover all your planes
Have a surface fleet with high AA values. Like a pair of Atlantas!

[Greyh Seer]

This is some good stuff. Thanks for all the replies.

What I'm basically hearing is that if I'm going to take Air, I need to be as air heavy as I possibly can be. That could make for some interesting battles.

[Scharnhorst]

Actually the valiant Greyh Seer has in fact attempted some of these tactics before. In fact two games previous his fleet consisted of mostly subs (I-19's and Ambra's) and a few cruisers for objectives. This fleet encountered my own "Taffy 7," an escort carrier fleet built on air power. (This game actually spawned my previous PBY Catalina/St. Lo thread)

Technically that game must be rematched. However in today's 200 point royale the Iowa was not very good at turning away my airpower, and a brave Betty delivered the killing blow.

And the Germans have ways to deal with air power: The Karl Galster's Close Escort SA. The Karl in the same sector as the Bismark and Graf Spee is a good start for anti-air defense, and completely manageable in a 100 point fleet.

[XAos]

With no fighters, the only planes I'd risk using are Dauntlesses & 1 Catalina.
Place the Catalina only after all enemy fighters are placed. Do not use the Catalina on turns when your opponent can attack it with a fighter.
Priority target for the Dauntlesses is enemy carriers, to reduce the rate at which the fighters can be used.

[Walgers]

Another tactic is using decoys. Field some PT boats and destroyers. He then has to scatter his fighters more. These are all fightermeat, but if not attackeck can still do a lot of damage to your opponent. He now has to choose, and you can use what he does not attack.

[LoneWolf]

Be U.S and you can do it, Atlanta owns.

[Scharnhorst]

Be U.S and you can do it, Atlanta owns.

Actually in our previous game the Atlanta did own. The Tone fired a long lance torpedo and his Atlanta claimed ownership immediately!

[LoneWolf]

Actually in our previous game the Atlanta did own. The Tone fired a long lance torpedo and his Atlanta claimed ownership immediately!

lol ive just had alot of luck with the Atlanta tbh.

especaily when people dont realise it is an atlanta you're fielding, and the swarm that sector with planes :D

[walawdog]

Not that I am any kind of expert, but I would agree that you must field a build that will make him regret stacking up on fighters. Subs can't be attacked by fighters and cruisers and battleships shouldn't care about fighters.

[XAos]

Not that I am any kind of expert, but I would agree that you must field a build that will make him regret stacking up on fighters. Subs can't be attacked by fighters and cruisers and battleships shouldn't care about fighters.
Don't try using cruisers against a fighter swarm; 4xWildcats with a Catalina shadowing. Each have a 28% chance to hit Graf Spee.
So in a single turn they have a net 73% to eliminate Graf Spees extended range.
With a 31% chance to cripple the Cruiser
And a 7% chance to sink it. At essentially no risk (< 1%) of loosing a fighter to the Spees AA-6.

Or consider 2xAtlanta V's 4xWildcat's+Catalina. The Atlanta's have a 7% chance to vital hit each Wildcat. Each Wildcat (including the chance to be aborted) has a 15% chance to hit the cruisers. Allowing for the Atlantas having 3 hull to the Wildcats 1. Net the Atlantas kill about 12pts worth of Wildcats for each Atlanta lost. The fighter swarm does need a couple of spare Wildcats to maintain stacking density if they take losses. But 100pt's of Atlantas are about par with 100pts of Wildcats. If you include the fact that a crippled Atlanta drops to AA-7, the Wildcats have the advantage. :eek:

['Warspite']

Don't try using cruisers against a fighter swarm; 4xWildcats with a Catalina shadowing each have a 28% chance to hit Graf Spee.
So in a single turn they have a net 73% to eliminate Graf Spees extended range.
With a 31% chance to cripple the Cruiser
And a 7% chance to sink it. At essentially no risk (< 1%) of loosing a fighter to the Spees AA-6.


I am very dubious about this use of Wildcats [or any fighter] as a strike weapon of this power.

I have been doing checking since a previous. Single Wildcats at Wake Island were adapted to carry a few bombs. One Japanese destroyer was sunk and a transport ship was damaged. I can find no other references to Wildcats bombing. Zeros could carry a few light bombs early in the war but - at that stage - it would be a waste of resources as the Val was better.

If fighters are taking on ships the size of Graf Spee then there is a serious problem with the way the game is being played - this is 'gamesmanship' and not historical accuracy.

I would give fighters '6' to hit only on bombing and prohibit them from benefiting from any spotting bonuses.

I would also prohibit them from strikes on the same move in which they took part in either air combat or 'escort' work. Either they are 'shooting for bears' or they have 'gone fishing' - they can't be carrying hunting rifles and fishing rods at the same time.

No fighter willing takes part in air combat, or the threat of air combat, with a bomb load or rocket load on board, it is jettisoned immediately to gain altitude or regain performance.