Anyone using IJN cruisers?

[Bismarck]

With the new rule changes Yukikaze has become quite playable. Destroyers acquired some added protection and effectiveness against submarines. At the same time cruisers got nothing with the new rules.

The Japanese cruisers were borderline playable before but now I can´t see any reason to play them instead of just fielding Yukikazes instead.

Why would anyone prefer spending his points on Myoko, Tone or Jintsu instead of Yukikazes?

[TheJudge]

With the new rule changes Yukikaze has become quite playable. Destroyers acquired some added protection and effectiveness against submarines. At the same time cruisers got nothing with the new rules.

The Japanese cruisers were borderline playable before but now I can´t see any reason to play them instead of just fielding Yukikazes instead.

Why would anyone prefer spending his points on Myoko, Tone or Jintsu instead of Yukikazes?

Simple answer, Yukikaze's are flimsy. Of course, you can use 2 of them for each Myoko but Myoko has strong guns and can take a hit before it gets to the battle, Yukikaze's can't.

You can refer to the Henderson Field scenario for a blow by blow account of the 2nd battle, the redux. The Yukikaze's were dead before they ever fired a shot while the 2 Myoko's and Tone's did all the damage. That was a 300 point game of course but shows all to well that while the Yukikaze is scary with the torpedoes, it is also easy to kill. IJN cruisers, heavy ones, have some staying power and once in battle, they prove their worth much better than Yukikaze's ever will.

["Sink the Bismark"]

Yukikaze's suck against subs and die easily. The I 19 costs only one point more and is much more effective so I don't use Yukikaze very much. I would never use the Jintsu because of its cost. I don't have a tone so there goes that option. I have a Myoko and will use it in games with my Akagi or with my Yamato in major engagements. The myoko is excellent against cruisers and destroyers, and in one of my games in crippled the Iowa with long lances. The Iowa was too busy firing at the Yamato to shoot at the Myoko
However, I'd only use the myoko in historical IJN Builds. If I can use any nationality I'd always take my Graff Spee over the Myoko.

[TheJudge]

With the recent rule changes where torpedoes and gunnery fire in the same phase, IJN cruisers got a major boost from that.

All things being equal, IJN cruisers are not as good as US cruisers because of the huge cost difference. The cost for Long Lance torpedoes was only worth it if you actually got to use them before the ship got crippled. Now, you don't have to worry about that and since US cruisers don't have good torpedoes, if any at all, the playing field leveled quite a bit.

A Myoko is now a powerful unit where before it was an overpriced clunker. It may get sunk by planes before it can do anything but that goes with the territory of any ship.

The Tone is an excellent ship. Scout Cruiser is a very under rated SA. It can spot any ship on the board, not needing line of sight, and any units attacking that ship get +1 dice for bombs and gunnery. In a large build, 2 Tone's are a must. They also have 7 AA which is the best you get in the IJN.

Even though they are expensive, 23 and 24 points, they are good units.

I hope Mogami is less expensive with similar stats. You can still get almost 2 US cruisers for every IJN cruiser so in a 300 point build, you can have 21-23 US cruisers to 12-13 IJN cruisers.

Basically, you have to score hits with those torpedoes to make them worth it but when they do hit, they sink or cripple everything but a battleship. That is powerful.

[Barry Kendall]

There is potential for the Mogamis to be the "budget" IJN CA. The class had good armament but they were not sturdy ships so either their Vital Armor should be relatively low or they should receive one less hull point than the Myokos.

Even before the war, the whole class was taken in hand for hull strengthening and additional bulges just to improve buoyancy after experience in heavy weather showed them to be poor seaboats with little reserve buoyancy.

I could see them offering the Japanese player lots of bang for the points but with limited survivability. This would make an interesting contrast to the Myokos.

[LoneWolf]

Depends on the points of the game.

200 pts

sure

Cruisers + Destroyers + Subs

Backed up with light Air cover.

Torpedo nightmare.

[Slaynar]

Okay what new rules changes and where did they write these up at????

Robert

[shermanM4A1]

Is the Jintsu a good piece? It has better gunnery than the Yukikaze but it is weaker than most other cruisers. Also, for 24 points, the cost of 2 Yukikazes, I can only use 1 Jintsu and either a Kinai Maru or a subchaser.

[JUNO44]

Seems about 4 points too much, 15 would have been more inline with an expensive light cruiser. The only time I have used them are in historical battles.

[Fleet_Admiral_PF]

Myoko is a fairly good cruiser. And i'm not a fan of the destroyer swarm strategy.

[mechgumbi]

Okay what new rules changes and where did they write these up at????

Robert

They are talking about the pdf file in the first post of the rule clarifacations thread, at the top of the WAS folder

[Grifter]

Tone is far better than Jintsu.

However, IRL, flotillas of japanese destroyers were effectively led by light cruisers of Jintsu class. Sure, they are no match for a Boise or Ajax, but they can and do wreak havoc in the enemy destroyers that could interfere with your Yukikazes on a torpedo run.

"And enemy cruisers", you will say ?

Well, as I play IJN, they are already very busy with all those Vals and Kates above their heads to pay attention to such a "weak" oppponent...

And Jintsu always can put an end to the sufferings of any crippled opponent...

[XAos]

Okay what new rules changes and where did they write these up at????

Robert

W@S Update & Clarifications (http://www.wizards.com/avalonhill/rules/War_at_Sea_Clarifications.pdf)

[Vornargith]

Regardless of what you're using, the Japanese fleet has become a deadlier presence. Any long-lance torpedo that can launch before a ship sinks can turn the tide of the game with lucky rolls. You gotta be willing to pay the costs for the cruisers though. Tone is worth every point with carrier support and bombers.

[Thalan]

The new rules make the destoryers and cruisers a serious pain. I have torps flying at me from all directions now!!!

My BB's were but down faster then greased lightin!!!!!


:mad:

["Sink the Bismark"]

The new rules make the destoryers and cruisers a serious pain. I have torps flying at me from all directions now!!!

My BB's were but down faster then greased lightin!!!!!


:mad:

That's why you ave expert dauntless with catalina.:D

[Autarch]

Simultaneous fire is deadly and puts the Japanese back in the game. Last weekend in a 1000 point match, I got all my kills from Long Lances: Iowa, Washington, Baltimore, Boise and Enterprise...

["Sink the Bismark"]

Simultaneous fire is deadly and puts the Japanese back in the game. Last weekend in a 1000 point match, I got all my kills from Long Lances: Iowa, Washington, Baltimore, Boise and Enterprise...
Man, must have rolled like all 6s with the Long Lances. Must have been fun, although I'm sure your opponent would disagree.:D

[Autarch]

I probably rolled a little better than average. I did do some damage with gunnery, but the lionshare of damage and all the kills came from the torpedoes. My opponent had a blast, he vitaled my Yamato on the first exchange.

[TheJudge]

We had a good game yesterday- IJN vs USN

The players we played were pretty new but it was:

Shokaku x2
Val x4
Zeke x3
Shoho
Yamato
Tone
200 points

Despite some lucky rolls during AA, the Val's tore Princeton a new one, sinking her 2nd turn, St Lo went down 2 turns later. Shoho was sunk by a SBD and TBD but the Zeke made it back to base.

Yamato took out Baltimore and Washington and took 3 damage in the meantime from Washington and a submarine.

Tone was stellar, torpedoing Baltimore, shooting Baltimore, and spotting Washington for Yamato.

At the end, we had Shokaku, Yamato, and Tone and 4 planes, the US had 2 subs, 1 PT boat and 2 planes. A drowning for the IJN.