Weakness

[LoneWolf]

scharnhorst x 1
u-510 x 4
condor x 3

100 points.

I would love to see some imput in this build, I'm personaly liking it so far. Feels rather consistant so far.

[Engineer]

I hope you roll those 6's.

[LoneWolf]

I hope you roll those 6's.

It gets abit like that, first torpedo attack with 5 dice is pretty good odds of rolling a 6 or two.

depending on what they have, you can use the condors to wreek havok against smaller more troblesome ships :D

the main ploblem I have seen or had so far is it have little to nothing to really deal with air trobles.

[TheJudge]

I like the look of that fleet but like the man said, you better make those torpedo attacks count. Scharnhorst is pretty good backup if they miss though and the Kondor's can really wreck any anti-sub units.

["Sink the Bismark"]

Enterprise-25
3 Catalina-21
2 Wildcat-14
3 Dauntless-39
The germans can't cope with air power of this magnitude. It is a good fleet you built though.

[Heir_Ludendorff]

It is also a very Pacific style fleet to be fighting Germans...

[walawdog]

I don't have my cards with me here at work so I can't add up the points, but, I would take two or three fighters (18pts for 3 Huricanes?), two or three catalinas (21pts for 3). That leaves 61 points for a medium sized cruiser or a couple of destroyers and a sub or two. Once the single German surface ship is sunk, how will you take any objectives?

[shermanM4A1]

Also, with the new rules, once your Scharnhorst is sunk, your opponent gets 50 points (assuming you are playing a 100 point game).

[doganpc]

Yeah, if your opponent goes gunho on the Scarnhorst they'll win. You would be hard pressed against a Richelieu or Rodney with Destroyer and Fighter support. Even worse off against 3 swordfish the problem is you have no way to fend off more than one aircraft. So those swordfish, even landbased would get free shots. ER:4,5 is your second worst enemy.

(parody="on")
Ha ha, fear my torpedo spreads! What is that a BiPlane, Ha! it probably will fly just as fast backwards! See my AA blast your pathetic paper airplanes. Ow! Damn it. Ow! Now I need a cane you little flying bast. . .
(parody="off")

Doganpc
Lets say I bring a Richelieu, Gloire, Terrible, Terrible, Sea Hurricane, Sea Hurricane to your little 100pt game :)

[LoneWolf]

Doganpc
Lets say I bring a Richelieu, Gloire, Terrible, Terrible, Sea Hurricane, Sea Hurricane to your little 100pt game :)

destroyers would sink quickly and be at least 1 Kondor left to spot a destroyer/Richelieu and launch take care of 1 with Zee missles. The destroyers will be running the proverbial gauntlet to try and remove the u-boat threat. even under the new rules. :D

[LoneWolf]

It is also a very Pacific style fleet to be fighting Germans...

well it is, and that is kind of wanted to see, no way i could fend off such a fleet. not with this build.

[cwfgamecast]

I play something close to what you have that I like overall and does a similar job. Only major downside in my list, aside from its anti-air capabilities, is the low number of planes.

1 Scharnhorst
1 Graf Spee
2 U510
1 Karl Galster
1 Kondor

Kondor supports the subs, the Galster provides extra AA to the big ships or goes after enemy subs. The Spee and Scharnhorst can shoot at range 4, the Spee taking out enemy destroyers before they get to your subs, and other large ships then move in for objectives. Feels naked only having 1 Kondor though.

I think if you're only going to have 1 surface ship you need something bigger like the Bismarck and even then you only have 1 surface ship, which is a big disadvantage, in my opinion. Although I've played that too.

[Wehrmact_Tiger]

I have had great success against Richelieu and Enterprise based fleets with this build. The Bismarck is a beast! Ultimately the dice make or break you. Use the air to surface missile against an enemy BB to neutralize extended range and use yours to press. Wolfpack with x2 kondor spotting is vicious.

Bismarck(53)
x3U510(33)
x2Kondor(12)
(98)

[doganpc]

destroyers would sink quickly and be at least 1 Kondor left to spot a destroyer/Richelieu and launch take care of 1 with Zee missles. The destroyers will be running the proverbial gauntlet to try and remove the u-boat threat. even under the new rules. :D

See now we're getting into assumptions on how you're going to deploy vs how i'm going to. Somthing that combined with initiative you just don't know until you actually go at it. What I do know is that my big guns have a longer reach along with 2 fighters and an escort, I got your planes covered as well. It'd be a good matchup, i'll have to try it out this weekend :D

Doganpc
back on a whim

[LoneWolf]

See now we're getting into assumptions on how you're going to deploy vs how i'm going to. Somthing that combined with initiative you just don't know until you actually go at it. What I do know is that my big guns have a longer reach along with 2 fighters and an escort, I got your planes covered as well. It'd be a good matchup, i'll have to try it out this weekend :D

Doganpc
back on a whim

Kind of have to make asumptions. The only real threat is the destroyers, and unless they are used as sub hunters then the Richelieu won't out range the battlecruiser for long :)

Of corse it all comes down to the rolls. But 4 - 5 dice is pretty good odds on hitting a few 6's.

also well see the kondors are only needed as throw aways really and only really needed to have one survive for one turn.

[walawdog]

I just tried the original set up versus an Ark Royal, 3x Swordfish, 3x Catalina, 2x Hurricanes, and an Exeter. It worked out pretty well for the British. My swordfish beatup the Scharnhorst and sunk it by about turn 4. She was also dead in the water once due to the SA. I will play it again to see if it turns out the same.

[LoneWolf]

I just tried the original set up versus an Ark Royal, 3x Swordfish, 3x Catalina, 2x Hurricanes, and an Exeter. It worked out pretty well for the British. My swordfish beatup the Scharnhorst and sunk it by about turn 4. She was also dead in the water once due to the SA. I will play it again to see if it turns out the same.

That is basicaly the same as the enterprise build.

Though, only thing I would probily do different is drop the hurricanes and Exeter, and take 3x Wildcat.

For my origional build only change I would really consider doing to it is maybe Dropping a U-510 and take Koln or Karl Galster. just to give it a little better AA cover.

[LoneWolf]

I have had great success against Richelieu and Enterprise based fleets with this build. The Bismarck is a beast! Ultimately the dice make or break you. Use the air to surface missile against an enemy BB to neutralize extended range and use yours to press. Wolfpack with x2 kondor spotting is vicious.

Bismarck(53)
x3U510(33)
x2Kondor(12)
(98)

I like the look of that fleet as well.

[Richter von Manthofen]

Ark Royal (22 points)
4 Swordfish (40)
2 Sea Hurricane (10)
3 Javelins (27)

99 points

["Sink the Bismark"]

sorry, if you wanted a european fleet, maybe try this
Rodney-56
2 Swordfish-20
3 Hurricanes-18
Rodney can kill Scharnhorst and then you can't take objectives. Use Swordfish against subs and hurricanes against Kondors. They come out when the Kondors do.

[Richter von Manthofen]

Thought about using the rodney, but The scharnhrst is so easily killed by the Swordfishes that you dont need her ;)

Ark Royal enhances the planes and the Smokescreens of the Javelines will keep them alive. (lucky hits will slow down the Scharnhorst, so with a bit luck the UK ships will claim objctives, also if the Rodney is killed the UK player is in trouble,...

[LoneWolf]

I would honestly see your origional build with the ark royal to be more troblesome then having the rodney. :)

My subs can still more about fairly uncontested against;

Rodney-56
2 Swordfish-20
3 Hurricanes-18 (5 points each, you can add a javelin in there)

where as;

Ark Royal (22 points)
4 Swordfish (40)
2 Sea Hurricane (10)
3 Javelins (27)

Little I can do to take care of that. Infact Not much at all. Multiple ways you can play it out. Swordfish ignore the subs and strike the Battlecruiser and leave the subs to the destroyers, spread and go for objectives, or even just rid yourself of the subs. And I can't affectivly counter any of the choices.

I am starting to side on the option of dropping a U-boat and taking either Koln or Karl Galster.

["Sink the Bismark"]

I would honestly see your origional build with the ark royal to be more troblesome then having the rodney. :)

My subs can still more about fairly uncontested against;

Rodney-56
2 Swordfish-20
3 Hurricanes-18 (5 points each, you can add a javelin in there)

where as;

Ark Royal (22 points)
4 Swordfish (40)
2 Sea Hurricane (10)
3 Javelins (27)

Little I can do to take care of that. Infact Not much at all. Multiple ways you can play it out. Swordfish ignore the subs and strike the Battlecruiser and leave the subs to the destroyers, spread and go for objectives, or even just rid yourself of the subs. And I can't affectivly counter any of the choices.

I am starting to side on the option of dropping a U-boat and taking either Koln or Karl Galster.
I agree that my original build was better, but I wanted to try it with a historical BB.

[Wehrmact_Tiger]

If I where expecting a carrier fleet I would bring this nasty 99pt fleet. Both BB's have an 8 AA value and the Karl adds a third AA defend opportunity. you should decimate his surface fleet and muscle away 2 objectives, providing you dont have AsW to worry about.

Bismarck(53)
Scharnhorst(38)
Karl(8)
(99)

[Richter von Manthofen]

My Carrier buil was especially constructed to counter his first fleet - its not an all purpose fleet. (Overall Uk is a bit weaker than the German fleet) being able to fit in another BB (Scharnhorst) takes you a long stretch on the way for Victory. I probably would drop 2 Hurricanes and add another Fairey (5 total) 8 Antiair is good only on 1 plane, so 3 should go through

I'd say take out the Scharnhorst first (lucky hit slows you down too)

2 Faireys are to be placed on the Land airbase alternating their apperance...

I will try to play out bot versions

["Sink the Bismark"]

My Carrier buil was especially constructed to counter his first fleet - its not an all purpose fleet. (Overall Uk is a bit weaker than the German fleet) being able to fit in another BB (Scharnhorst) takes you a long stretch on the way for Victory. I probably would drop 2 Hurricanes and add another Fairey (5 total) 8 Antiair is good only on 1 plane, so 3 should go through

I'd say take out the Scharnhorst first (lucky hit slows you down too)

2 Faireys are to be placed on the Land airbase alternating their apperance...

I will try to play out bot versions

I'd like to hear the report on how that went

[TheJudge]

Yes, battle report, battle report!

[Wehrmact_Tiger]

I took on a 200pt Iowa/ Washington/Baltimore fleet with a Bismarck/Scharnhorst/Graf Spee fleet tonight in the Iowas main voyage out of the box, she was vital-ed with love from the Bismarck, while that same turn the Scharnhorst vital-ed the Washington taking only 1 damage each in return:eek: . Leaving the Baltimore, and remaining light cruisers/dd, to be annihilated by my force. GLORIOUS!:p :)

Bismarck
Scharnhorst
Adm. Graf Spee
x5 Karls
x3u510's
x2 Kondors

Iowa
Washington
Baltimore
x2Boise
Atlanta
fletcher
x2Wildcats

[LoneWolf]

I took on a 200pt Iowa/ Washington/Baltimore fleet with a Bismarck/Scharnhorst/Graf Spee fleet tonight in the Iowas main voyage out of the box, she was vital-ed with love from the Bismarck, while that same turn the Scharnhorst vital-ed the Washington taking only 1 damage each in return:eek: . Leaving the Baltimore, and remaining light cruisers/dd, to be annihilated by my force. GLORIOUS!:p :)

Bismarck
Scharnhorst
Adm. Graf Spee
x5 Karls
x3u510's
x2 Kondors

Iowa
Washington
Baltimore
x2Boise
Atlanta
fletcher
x2Wildcats

I usualy play with set "core builds" for sertain fleet designs. All based on a 100 point fleet and just expand as the game increases in point size.

200 points on the build I have here, I add another Scharnhorst, another condor, U-510, 3 stukas and 3 Karl galsters. I would of optioned to take more air but at 200 points limited to 7. :(

Came across a fleet with an enterprise today, instantly I was in protect the subs and destroy the carrier mode. Airpower exhusted to take down that enterprise first turn. Vitaled the enterprise, luckly he failed the survival saving roll, and I was also able to rid my self of the pesky little carriers as well. All round for a first round it went well. was able to take the ER5 off he's Iowa, helped secure victory, my Scharnhorsts did bugger all work through most of the game.

[walawdog]

I tried out the Bismark, Scharnhorst, Galster build and my first go was not good as I used an Ark Royal, 5 Swordfish, a PBY and an Exeter (or something like that) and it went poorly. I then tried an Ark Royal, 3 Swordfish, a PBY and 4 subs. I was able to sink the Galster before all my planes were shot down, then the subs took care of the rest. The Bismark was able to put one point of damage on the Ark Royal as it was trying to chase it around. Once the Galster was sunk, there was nothing to stop the subs.

[doganpc]

How about this for weakness. The Scharnhorst, Graf Spree, Koln, Nordmark, Karl Galster, stuka and kondor lost to a Vittorio, Bolzano, Duca, Luca, and ambra build over the weekend.

It was played in a tight group of 6 islands, kind of like a channel imo. Bolzano vital'd the kondor, stuka vital'd the bolzano, Vittorio vital'd Scharnhorst. Neither Luca or Duca lasted under cruiser fire. It came down to the Koln against a crippled Vittorio. This is where things got fuzzy cause I rolled a 6 for initiative and left it out. Then when I rolled the torpedo and it came up a hit, but with all the dice flying about it was unsure if that was the initiative or the torpedo die. Either way my friend won with the Ambra being worth more than the Stuka (he eliminated more value), the difference is in how much flair.

Doganpc
Was a good scrap even after losing the Scharnhorst.