Unsung deeds of great ships

[Torps]

Am wondering if we might want to recount the feats of certain ships and discuss if and how they can be replicated in WaS.

The ship that I find an inspiration for this is the USS Nevada during the raid on Pearl Harbour.
The performance of her officers and crew stands out. She was torpedoed but quickly righted her list with prompt counterflooding and managed to get herself under way and began a dash for open sea. The Japanese saw what she was intending to do and made concerted attempts to sink her in the harbour channel with the intention of blocking access and egress from Pearl Harbour for months to come.
The captain quickly analysed enemy intentions and beached her away from the channel.
For a peacetime crew to so promptly put thier mindset on a war footing and perform such excellent damage control, to get thier huge vessel under way so quickly - under fire, and to have the quick wit to see the enemy's intention and look at the 'big picture' consequences of the actions they took is an outstanding example of good seamanship IMO.

Anyone got any thoughts on this?

["Sink the Bismark"]

Perhaps a damage control SA?
Only thing I can think of.
Anyone else have an idea?

[Vornargith]

Or a special rule for a scenario allowing the ship to move quicker to an objective if it doesn't attack.

[Torps]

Thankyou, gentlemen.:)
I was just fishing for ideas.

[Taisho Bo]

SA initiative bonus maybe.. (flagship rating variant)

[Richter von Manthofen]

Or maybe SA - Reach the Beach - After being hit, this unit must go to the nearest land mass enter that sector and remain there for the game. Add # (ship cost) to your victory point total.

[Conjurer]

I would agree - there should be room in WAS for a few units which turned in exceptional performance. Nevada could be one such candidate ( A minor correction... Nevada's skipper beached her under orders, not on his own initiative; that in no way detracts from his performance, nor from that of his crew - all concerned did the Navy proud on a morning which had exploded into chaos ).

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq66-1.htm

Another candidate vessel might be USS Edsall, a four-piper destroyer which endured shelling from IJN battleships and cruisers for more than an hour:

http://www.bobhenneman.info/bhaoj.htm

Or, look at Samuel B. Roberts with its SA, Valiant Stand. This unit has in fact already set the precedent for " inspirational " units. :cool:

[shyft87]

how about an SA that allowed you to literally 'change your mind' where you placed the Nevada after all the enemy ships/planes had been placed...kinda representing her crew 'knowing' what the enemy had in mind...

Definately thinking it'd be a once-shot SA though....wouldn't be fair to keep moving over the board!

[Conjurer]

how about an SA that allowed you to literally 'change your mind' where you placed the Nevada after all the enemy ships/planes had been placed...kinda representing her crew 'knowing' what the enemy had in mind...

Definately thinking it'd be a once-shot SA though....wouldn't be fair to keep moving over the board!

Again: Nevada was beached under orders, not as a result of any initiative undertaken by her skipper or crew.

[unc_samurai]

How about giving the Nevada the Survivor SA?

[Torps]

I would agree - there should be room in WAS for a few units which turned in exceptional performance. Nevada could be one such candidate ( A minor correction... Nevada's skipper beached her under orders, not on his own initiative; that in no way detracts from his performance, nor from that of his crew - all concerned did the Navy proud on a morning which had exploded into chaos ).

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq66-1.htm

Another candidate vessel might be USS Edsall, a four-piper destroyer which endured shelling from IJN battleships and cruisers for more than an hour:

http://www.bobhenneman.info/bhaoj.htm

Or, look at Samuel B. Roberts with its SA, Valiant Stand. This unit has in fact already set the precedent for " inspirational " units. :cool:

Thanks for setting me right about the beaching being under orders, and like you say, that detracts nothing from Nevada's performance on that terrible day.

[The_Lucky_Y]

sorry for off topic but I know the old first worldwar US destroyers nicknamed as four-stackers....

[Torps]

sorry for off topic but I know the old first worldwar US destroyers nicknamed as four-stackers....

Yes indeed.
The USN referred to them as 'four stackers' and the commonwealth referred to them as 'flush deckers'.

[swarbs]

How about the German sub that crept into Scapa Flow and put paid to Royal Oak? SA Obsolete Battleship Destroyer: Rolls two extra torpedo dice against 1939 and earlier battleships.

[LoneWolf]

How about giving the Nevada the Survivor SA?

yeh i would agree.

survivor seems to be a bit of a better fit. Determination would fit well as well.

[LoneWolf]

How about the German sub that crept into Scapa Flow and put paid to Royal Oak? SA Obsolete Battleship Destroyer: Rolls two extra torpedo dice against 1939 and earlier battleships.

To specific for my liking.

I think it would be best to keep things simple, and just make it. Battleship Hunter: Rolls 1 extra torpedo attack against battleships.

[LoneWolf]

HMS Repluse. She played dodge ball with quite a few torpedos before she was hit a few times and sunk.

Torpedo defense 1. (though I am not sure about torpedo defense as she was a battlecruiser, and Torpedo defense is the game's way of setting Battleships and battlecruisers apart from one another.)

And or maybe an SA to do with the number of dice rolled against her with torpedo attacks, or an SA simular to chasing the salvos but torps insted of main guns.

Just quick thoughts here

eg.

Enemys roll one less dice when making torpedo attacks against this ship.

or

When hit by a torpedo attack roll a dice, on a 5 or higher ignore that damage.

or

When this unit is hit by a plane's attack roll a dice, on a 5 or higher ignore that damage.

I'm thinking the 3rd one might be the best fitting imo.

["Sink the Bismark"]

. (though I am not sure about torpedo defense as she was a battlecruiser, and Torpedo defense is the game's way of setting Battleships and battlecruisers apart from one another.)


Cool, so the Baltimore is a BB.:rolleyes: :D :D

[LoneWolf]

Cool, so the Baltimore is a BB.:rolleyes: :D :D

Didn't you know this ?

Learn something new every day right ?

[wavynavy]

what about HMS GLOWORM she ramed a german heavy cruiser.her capt. was awarded the 1st VC of WW2 (oh and by an enemy recomendation) or the HMS jervis bay or rawilpindi both armed merchent crusiers (a merchent ship with guns (no armor)both saved the convoys they were protecting though they both were sunk both capt's recieved the VC.

[DocMac]

How about the USS West Virginia? After she was refloated from Pearl Harbor, she went back to her old job of out shooting the other Battleships of the US fleet. For most of the 1930's she won annual gunnery awards for the Navy. Go to wikipedia and search US Navy, scroll down till you see complete ships list its by class and name. I found a similar list for the RN.

[Conjurer]

The " Wee-Vee " was indeed renowned for her gunnery. In Surigao Strait, she hit Yamashiro under full radar control with her first salvo at over 22,000 yards, which might suggest that she should receive ER5 ( though with a lower attack than Iowa ).

From strictly a gameplay standpoint, this actually works against her being included in WAS; with the four Iowas and two Richelieus available, having yet another Allied BB with ER5 might be a bit much...

I still want her though. :D

[DocMac]

Thats easy then, give her extended 4 she did only have "16 Inch Rifles" make it she can reroll ones. Like the ammo dump for land based.
USS West Virginia (BB 48) 50 points
Main-16 16 15 12
2nd-6 6 5
AA-7
Slow2,Ex4,TD1,
Superior Gunnery- May reroll any 1's (once per turn or once per game?) for her main guns only.
I am waiting to see if someone can make a signature for me that has her at the strait

[Torps]

To my mind it would be hard to find any cruiser who could match this war record (copied from Royal australian Navy "Gunplot" website):

Possibly the ship with the most colourful World War II history was HMAS Australia, fondly known as "The Aussie". The Aussie fought for almost the entire duration of the war. A county class cruiser commissioned in 1928 she was the second ship to bear the name of her country. With the outbreak of WWII Aussie sailed for the Atlantic to begin her long wartime career that she was to fight on all fronts and against all enemies. She fought twice at Dakar in Senegal, closing right in under the fort's heavy guns and sinking a French destroyer.

Bombers of the luftwaffe tried in vain to sink her whilst she was berthed alongside in Liverpool during the period when the city suffered its worst blitz. During her war service Aussie went everywhere - with the British Home Fleet in Scapa Flow, escorting the Atlantic and Indian Ocean convoys and around the coast of Australia searching for German raiders, cruising almost as far south as Antarctica.

In December 1941 when Japan entered the war Aussie became the flagship or Rear Admiral Crace, followed by Admiral Crutchley and then Commodore Collins. In January 1942 the cruiser assisted in escorting the first US troops to Australia. Operating in the Coral Sea it pursued and attacked the Japanese from Guadalcanal to Hollandia, surviving everything its enemies could throw at her. Then in the closing stages of the war at the battle of Leyte Gulf in the Philippines Aussie encountered Japan's most secret and diabolical weapon.

Anchored just off a bombardment point, late in 1944, Aussie received its first taste of a new weapon of warfare. Out of the blue skies of Leyte came the 'Divine Wind" or the Kamikaze. Japans suicidal attempt to stave off what was almost certain defeat in the pacific war. The first Kamikaze hit against Aussie was by a A6M5 Zero-Sen Fighter fitted with a 200 kilogram bomb, the impact of this snapped one leg of the ship's tripod mast, causing a huge shower of wreckage to rain down upon the compass platform. Underneath it lay Captain Dechaineaux mortally wounded along with many others, amongst them Commodore J. Collins, hero of the HMAS Sydney. Four days later, after the initial Kamikaze attack, Aussie again suffered the brunt of another, her sleek hull and distinctive row of three funnels drawing the suicidal pilots to her. It was perhaps the Japs new her identity and were determined to sink the Flagship of the Australian Fleet. After being badly mauled again she was forced to return to Manus Island, near New Guinea, to land 40 seriously wounded sailors and then proceed to Espirito Santu in the New Hebrides (now Vanuatu) to undergo repairs.

HMAS Australia was needed badly by the R.A.N for she was the last surviving seaworthy member of the country's heavy cruiser fleet the rest having been sunk and Hobart badly damaged. So she was quickly returned to active service.

She headed straight back to Philippine waters and on the afternoon of 5th January 1945 at the Lingayen Gulf landings the Kamikazes targeted her again. Her new Captain Armstrong flung the ship about wildly but it was to prove in vain as another bomb laden aircraft slammed into to her. The casualties were high - 25 men killed and 30 seriously wounded, most were badly needed guns crews. Despite extensive damage she joined HMAS Shropshire and other US units to aid in the bombardment of San Fernando and Poro Point. A new wave of Kamikazes then attacked, a Aichi 'Val' Dive Bomber surviving the murderous fire thrown up by all ships collided headlong into her upperdeck exploding in an enormous fireball. Several guns crews died instantly and a severe shockwave shuddered throughout the ship. This hit accounted for another 14 dead and 26 seriously wounded. by now Aussie's AA defences were all but eliminated.

At dawn on 8th January the allied fleet resumed its bombardment and the Kamikazes renewed their suicidal attacks. Aussie was the last ship in the line and was once again singled out by the Japs. A Mitsubishi 'Dinah' Bomber was shot down finally coming to rest just 20 metres from Aussie's hull. Moments later another bomber hurltled in, the Aussie's Gunners throwing up withering fire until at last shooting it down, but not before it released its bomb which exploded close to the waterline, punching a large hole in the hull. Taking a dangerous list to port another 'Dinah' roared in. Those guns still in operation tore the bomber to bits and it showered down aviation fuel upon the sailors whilst its massive engine smashed through the bulkhead of the Captain's Day Cabin. Within seconds another 'Dinah' roared in, the Aussie Gunners frantically trying to shoot it down, succeeding, within just 15 metres, the propellor blades embedding themselves in a liferaft. The aircraft skidding into the hull ripping another large hole and damaging yet another fuel tank, whilst two messdecks were completely destroyed. Aussie by now was in bad shape, her speed reduced to fifteen knots to avoid causing more damage. Aussie still hung in and managed to continue the fight with what was left of her brave guns crews.

The following day the Japs decided to finish the Flagship off knowing she was almost dead in the water. As another plane raced in heading for her bridge its pilot misjudged his attack line and slammed into the yardarm slewing the aircraft around so as to miss the bridge area and taking out the top of the foremost funnel. Sliced off cleanly it crashed to the deck. There were no casualties from this hit but it spelt the end for Aussie. Two boilers had to be shut down because of insufficient updraft. Aussie's war had come to an end.

For Aussie its days of combat were over, singled out by the Japanese Kamikazes she had defied the odds against the 'Devine Wind' and survived. Thus writing another page into Australia's proud Naval history.
As she steamed away from the combined fleet on her way home for repairs she was cheered by every ship she passed. I don't know of any other ship who survived that many Kamikaze hits.

[Conjurer]

Thats easy then, give her extended 4 she did only have "16 Inch Rifles" make it she can reroll ones. Like the ammo dump for land based.
USS West Virginia (BB 48) 50 points
Main-16 16 15 12
2nd-6 6 5
AA-7
Slow2,Ex4,TD1,
Superior Gunnery- May reroll any 1's (once per turn or once per game?) for her main guns only.
I am waiting to see if someone can make a signature for me that has her at the strait

Not sure of your point here... ER5 doesn't seem to be related to calibre so much as it is to the quality of the guns and of the fire control. Jean Bart and Richelieu had 15" main batteries, and have ER5, as do the Iowas with their 16" guns.

Yamato and Musashi had 18" guns but only have ER4, which is almost certainly due to the Japanese deficiencies in radar and fire control.

[Qmark]

Yamato and Musashi had 18" guns but only have ER4, which is almost certainly due to the Japanese deficiencies in radar and fire control.Nah.
This is due to blatant US bias.

I'd like to see a Yorktown that has to be sunk three times.

[DocMac]

The Austrailia would be a good ship,I would field her. As for my post on the WV, its just to make the ship different, after refits to the Pearl Harbor battleships, they all went up to 16 inch guns I think(what I found says they did anyways). I cant see giving it to the WV, if the Tennessee and Washington("modern class") didnt get range 5, so giving it to the WV doesnt feel right. but making her big guns better able to shoot more then fits her personality so to speak. On the Ricky(nickname I use for it) and Iowa they had superior radar and fire control. Even though the WV had the same hardware, the Range 5 still doesnt feel right in the ship, but let her hit harder, and that does feel right, Her naval gunnery wins were all in short range gunnery anyways. But this is all an idea and since i cant make cards, hashing it out and maybe having someone make the card after a compromise is reached might make her fun, I have an idea how ot make the ship as well. Just need 3 models to do it.

[Conjurer]

The Austrailia would be a good ship,I would field her. As for my post on the WV, its just to make the ship different, after refits to the Pearl Harbor battleships, they all went up to 16 inch guns I think(what I found says they did anyways). I cant see giving it to the WV, if the Tennessee and Washington("modern class") didnt get range 5, so giving it to the WV doesnt feel right. but making her big guns better able to shoot more then fits her personality so to speak. On the Ricky(nickname I use for it) and Iowa they had superior radar and fire control. Even though the WV had the same hardware, the Range 5 still doesnt feel right in the ship, but let her hit harder, and that does feel right, Her naval gunnery wins were all in short range gunnery anyways. But this is all an idea and since i cant make cards, hashing it out and maybe having someone make the card after a compromise is reached might make her fun, I have an idea how ot make the ship as well. Just need 3 models to do it.

" WeeVee " straddled and hit Yamashiro on her first salvo, at night, at a range of 22,800 yards. In fact, she scored hits with five of her first six salvoes. This would suggest a potent combination of training, technology and tactical advantage.

I'm not sure what you mean when you're talking about ER5 not "feeling" right for West Virginia. After her rebuild, she was in many ways as modern a vessel offensively as the North Carolinas, Iowas and South Dakotas.

You do raise a valid point in that the North Carolinas are denied ER5 while the Iowas are not. I'm about to leave work and won't be back to the forums until tonight, so maybe someone else will take a crack at WotC's reasoning on that score.

[PaulG]

I'd like to see a Spica class Torpedo Boat, a DE in WaS parlance.

At the battle of Crete there were two seperate actions involving Spica class ships:
Sagitarrio Escorting a convoy of caiques was set upon by a British squadron of 3 Cruisers and 4 Destroyers. She made smoke and attacked the british columns. In doing so she saved the entire convoy and lived to fight another day.
Lupo Escorting a convoy of caiques and was attacked by a squadron of 3 Cruisers and 5 Destroyers. She made smoke and attacked the British squadrons. The british Cruisers and Destroyers did make it into the convoy but half the convoy was saved the by Lupo's actions and the Lupo managed to fight her way free.

In terms of small ships who saved or mostly saved their convoys from vastly superior attacking forces and living to fight another day it's hard to go past either action, but when both happened on the same night you have give the Italians the guernsey.