Can the escorts win?

["Sink the Bismark"]

I have been reading the convoy scenario and need to ask- Are they kidding? The escorts ned to defend abseloutly crappy ships and have no idea what's comming. How can the escorts win? Is there something I'm missing?

[Poseidon]

Boggles my mind too.

[swarbs]

I played it a couple of times right after the game came out and I got some subs. After they completely slaughtered the destroyers three times in a row I gave it up. Maybe with new harrassed subs rule they stand a chance, but it still seems like they should get a points bonus at least.

["Sink the Bismark"]

Boggles my mind too.

Yeah, I mean check out the difference between these 3 builds.

2 Graf Spee-42
1 Scharnhorst-38
1 U510-11
1 Karl Galster-8
99 points and has tremendous surface power. All you need to do is hit the merchant ships once.

1 Shokaku- 20
5 Val-50
2 I 19-26
1 Subchaser-4
This has great air power and could kill merchants with ease

5 Kondors-30
5 U 510-55
2 Stukas
This has the cheap shot Kondor galore, and a massive sub force. Stukas are something else to bomb them with.:D

Each one of these builds could trounce a convoy and each require a vastly different build to defeat. I seems to me the escorts are playing a guessing game.

[Poseidon]

Only way I can think to make it more evened out is a huge point bonus to the convoy boys, make the ships stronger, points reduction to attacker, or make it so more convoy ships are needed. (6 O'Briens instead of 3, and you gotta kill 5?)

Or some combination of the above.:confused:

After reading this scenario the first time I had no real interest in it. Seemed like a total wash.

[ericjohn]

This matches my experience the one time I played it -

I mixed up DDs, CLs, CAs and subs to get some capabilities for anti-sub, anti-surface and anti-air. Enemy just took subs and aircraft. Totally picked me apart, first their planes swamped my DDs to cripple my ASW capabilities, then their subs closed in started sinking cargo ships. My CAs spent the whole game waiting for the surface raider that never showed up. To add insult to injury the killed the last 2 (of 5) cargo ships with Kondor missiles, no defense for that.

I'd be interested if any experienced players have found the scenario interesting or figured out ways to make it so?

[aquarius]

We just made up our own convoy version at the FLGS, way more in depth and historical.

[Greyh Seer]

We just made up our own convoy version at the FLGS, way more in depth and historical.

What rules do you use for that version?

[Vornargith]

The harassment rules almost guarantee that subs will only have 1-2 torpedoes... even at range 0 and with wolf-pack bonuses. Destroyers own subs if they can close in in a group. Gotta use harassment though.

[RedSpike]

The problem is that if you go with a destroyer heavy fleet, you will be destroyed by Kondors, cruisers, Zekes with the Tone, etc. You odds of guessing the exact fleet the raiders field is pretty low.

The only real way to do the scenario effectively is to have a list of balanced fleets for each side to choose from.

[doganpc]

Convoy = American ships

In the Warspite sealed mission orders (adaptation of another game) the convoy vessels are free.

Doganpc
Although making the convoy always american would pretty much settle things.

[The_Lucky_Y]

we give our convoy vessesl usually the stats of the Nordmark so they last longer and do not blow up at the first hit.

[polish_horsy]

yeah... they just threw that convoy thing in the rule book without ever trying it IMO. It should have been obvious to anyone that the convoy would lose 90% of the time or more using the rules they had in the book.

you guys are doing a good job beta testing this game for them.

:)

[Poseidon]

It should have been obvious to anyone that the convoy would lose 90% of the time or more using the rules they had in the book.


Maybe that was the point :eek:

[doganpc]

Maybe that was the point :eek:

:p No no no, it's obvious that the convoy scenario was designed to be played with an early war years restriction (1939). Come to think of it, if most of the British and Italian conflicts were convoy based, why is it we lack convoy vessels for such fleets?

Doganpc
Instead we got ships that were targets of submarines out on patrol.

[Sean-Khan]

Against non-aircraft enemy there's no incentive to try to move the cargo ships. If attacker starts with 40 points and gets 10 points each turn after first might be simple solution. Balance of point values should be tested. New units deployed to long sides of the map as that unit's movement.

I just wonder if attacker's deployment area should be that of submarines?