Essential pieces and why

[oddfellow]

I picked up a few starters and some boosters for WaS back when it first released. I haven't had an opportunity to play it much as most of my game time has gone to AAM, but I'm looking to get back into the sea game and was wondering if some of you long time players could give some advice as to what pieces are "essential" to getting the most out of this game and possibly a reason why its a must have. The suggestions dont need to be "ultimate navy" power pieces, just ones that add fun and dimension to the game.

[Stormhawk4107]

Well some of the best pieces you could use are actually Commons and Uncommons. Submarines are a vital part in most fleets, especially the German subs with wolfpack. Destroyers are big as well including the Javelin and Luca Tarigo with their sub-hunter and lay smoke. The German Z20 comes into this as well with it's close escort allowing 3 ships to stay in formation and help fend off air attacks. The PBY and Kondors are in my opinion the two best patrol bombers in the game at this time. An Atlanta cruiser in a fleet means an enemy will have a tough time launching air attacks at that formation until the Atlanta has been dealt with.

Most of the time I spend making fleets for the games we play I spend not on picking the best capital ship but on it's escort fleet, because sometimes it helps you win the game far more than the battleships big guns.

[aquarius]

Everything he said :D

[oddfellow]

Lucky me... I have all of the items you've mentioned so far except the German Z20 and Kondor. I'm finding that a reasonable amount of fighters are needed to defend your ships from bombers (unfortunately they seem hard to come by in the secondary markey, esp "Zekes"). Do you guys prefer Torpedo Bombers or "regular" bombers? Thanks for the reply guys!

[shyft87]

Personally I prefer dive bombers...the dauntless is lethal...

BUT...

I'm starting to choose torp' bombers a bit more, they're a bit of a wild card, but when they work...your opponent KNOWS about it ;)

[LoneWolf]

Personally I prefer dive bombers...the dauntless is lethal...

BUT...

I'm starting to choose torp' bombers a bit more, they're a bit of a wild card, but when they work...your opponent KNOWS about it ;)

Dive bombers are more reliable.

ASW is the main thing I take torp bombers for.

Allies Torp bombers are either to weak or to unreliable, very low survivability rate with torp bombers.

[Joey]

Kate all the way! Sure, fielding torpedo bombers is really about playing the odds but... it's so much fun to see the face of your opponent when you roll 4:) , 7;) or even 10 (lucky me!:D ) torpedo dices and then Ka-Boum!

Also, when I go with a battleship fleet, I like to give a Tone as escort to my BB... kinda look like the little girl that show her mommy who's been mean to her at school... shoot her mommy!... now her!....

Finally, since the ''not so new rules anymore'', I really like to field a couple of Yukikaze in my fleet, again for the torpedo terror factor, it really affect the way your opponent play... nobody like to see their cruiser be sunk by a little destroyer:eek:

All in all, you can't really go wrong with any japanase ship.... except maybe the subhunter.....

["Sink the Bismark"]

What you need depends on what country you play, and your personal style.
You need to get Iowa and Yamato. Subs are good. Planes are tricky, they can win or loose the game for you.

[swarbs]

If you just want to have fun I think aircraft carriers are a great way to go, bring lots of extra aircraft and a sub or two. Another fun build is to double up on smaller battleships (Tennessee, Kongo, Hood, Scharnhorst) instead of taking one big one, make sure you bring some support too, fighters and subs to round things out. The nice thing about this game is that 'fun' can be had with many different pieces, even if you don't win.

[aquarius]

Lucky me... I have all of the items you've mentioned so far except the German Z20 and Kondor. I'm finding that a reasonable amount of fighters are needed to defend your ships from bombers (unfortunately they seem hard to come by in the secondary markey, esp "Zekes"). Do you guys prefer Torpedo Bombers or "regular" bombers? Thanks for the reply guys!
If I am playing the Americans, then I always go with the Dauntless based off the Enterprise and w/ Catalinas. If I am Japan, then I go with about 50-50 Val-Kate to take use of both the Shokaku's EB2 and the Akagi's ET1. Of course, I bring a Tone, too.



















The Yamato beats everything :D

[Vornargith]

The USS Atlanta ... Never leave home without it. There's more than a "good" chance that your opponent will field aircraft. Your vital ship will benefit from the Atlanta's Antiair.

[Diamondback]

I'd consider a minimun build an Iowa, an Atlanta, two Wildcats and two Dauntlesses (unless you're going carrier). Keep using your Dauntlesses (one per turn, alternating) to try to cancel battleships' ER by 1st damage-point, then just let Iowa strike from range 5, with Atlanta reinforcing the AA and your Wildcats sitting in reserve in case the other guy brought Kondors.

[aquarius]

But then subs are going to kill you.

[Diamondback]

That's the catch. Can't defend 100% against everything...

[aquarius]

Au contraire (spelling?) in 500 point battles you can. I have....

[Diamondback]

500-point mega-battles are well above "standard game", though. I was trying to at least keep close to "by-the-book", even though I don't have my points-charts with me...

[hey_yu]

I'm relatively new. I just read the rules and looked at the stat cards. Off-hand it seems the set is pretty well-balanced and for the most part almost all the pieces are pretty playable game-wise. Is this an accurate assessment?

[Snippersly]

ASW is the main thing I take torp bombers for.


Did you just say you use Torpedo bombers to attack subs? I must have missed that section in the rules. Torp bombers can't touch a sub. Only a PBY or Kondor can.

Maybe I misunderstood you though...

[LoneWolf]

Did you just say you use Torpedo bombers to attack subs? I must have missed that section in the rules. Torp bombers can't touch a sub. Only a PBY or Kondor can.

Maybe I misunderstood you though...

You didn't misunderstand anything I said, or got what I said wrong.

It has an ASW Value, it can attack them.

I think you have missed something in the rules. Devestator, Kate, betty and swordfish all have ASW values, and Expert ASW SA even includes friendly torpedo bomber in its SA.

[Snippersly]

They can attack with Depth Charges, not Torpedoes. A aircraft based torpedo is strictly an anti-ship weapon. Maybe if you caught the sub on the surface then MAYBE you could hit it with a Torp...but that would never happen.

I misunderstood I think...you meant Depth Charge ASW not Torpedo ASW.

Thanks
Snip

[Vornargith]

I'm relatively new. I just read the rules and looked at the stat cards. Off-hand it seems the set is pretty well-balanced and for the most part almost all the pieces are pretty playable game-wise. Is this an accurate assessment?

I'd say the original rules were 90% there ... the clarifications and the game designers rules make it 95%.

Some things have fallen through the cracks:
The Italian Motor Boat
Type 13 Subchaser (Frigate type Cards?)
Mines
... and a few points that the guys here in the forums have done a fine job at clearing up.

[LoneWolf]

They can attack with Depth Charges, not Torpedoes. A aircraft based torpedo is strictly an anti-ship weapon. Maybe if you caught the sub on the surface then MAYBE you could hit it with a Torp...but that would never happen.

I misunderstood I think...you meant Depth Charge ASW not Torpedo ASW.

Thanks
Snip

In that case you did misunderstand me.

I ment with the ASW value, would be a bit hard to hit a sub with a torpedo. :D

[Homer]

I'd say the original rules were 90% there ... the clarifications and the game designers rules make it 95%.


What were the rules changes from the rulebook? I skimmed through the sticky threads while I was trying to remember my password to post, but I wasn't sure which stuff in the threads was the actual changes and which was suggestions and ideas.

[Taisho Bo]

One really essential piece; the ONLY axis fighter; A6M ZEKE

[Poseidon]

Submarines > all

[Torps]

For me its a case of don't leave home without:
Catalina PBY
Truculent SS
Javelin DD - the more the merrier
or
Kondor(s)
U-Boats
Scharnhorst
Karl Galster

[TheJudge]

The best units are-

US- Wildcat, SBD, Catalina, Iowa, and Enterprise. Everything else is playable.

Japan- Anything with Long Lance torpedoes and the luck needed to get them in range to use them. :)

Shokaku/Val is a great combo. Expert bomber 2 is excellent. Yamato is a beast. Tone's Scout Cruiser SA is very under rated but not by me.

Germany- Submarines and Kondors! The ships are good also but not outstanding.

UK- Nothing outstanding here. The Truculents 4 dice torpedo attack is scary. The Hood is a barge waiting to get blown up. Rodney is not bad, not great.

France- Richilieu and it's cruiser Gloire are good ships. Extended Range 5, while being rediculous is very powerful. The friendly spotting is very good.

Australia- Not much happening here. Canberra, for the points is a toad. Window dressing at best if you're into scenarios.

Italy- Maybe the most watered down of the set. Littorio class BB is ok, not great. The little Ambra subs are fun for a goof, playing 11 of them in a 200 point game can be fun I guess, if you're into that sort of thing.

The set is obviously slanted towards US naval power but they also get the advantage of having the best fighter and best dive bomber to go with a range 5 BB and less expensive destroyers and a dedicated sub hunter(Sam B Roberts) that drops 6 ASW dice. Yikes!

It's all good. If you play Iowa's against Italian navy, it won't be very fun. Try to keep the builds balanced among your play group so it will stay fun.

[The_Lucky_Y]

Never left the home port without I-19 if I play the IJN side.

[Thunderjp]

If your just getting into the game and playing by the printed rule book, and try to play the game competetively like chess, you're game will probably quickly evolve into who has the biggest battleship, followed by subs and fighters vs. battleships. At about this point it will stop being a lot of fun.

If you play with the rule changes from this forum (surface ships firing torps during ship phase, sub harrassment, etc...) the game gets much more fun.

If you stop trying to play competetive beat your opponent in the face style and agree with your opponents to build forces to play for FUN rather than highest win%, the game is extremely fun.


On that note, competetively, the Wildcat and Zeke are probably the two most important pieces as they can defend against enemy aircraft or take out destroyers and even light cruisers! Subs are nerfed in the new rules, a few in my circle think way too much, but I think they are still effective against the Big Boys if you quickly take out their destroyers.

Americans:
Wildcat
Dauntless
Iowa
Catalina
The atlanta is great if you know your opponent is bringing lots of air, but I don't waste my points there since Wildcats and the already over-powered american AA on their other ships does the job.

Japanese:
Zeke
I-19
Yamato
Tone
Yukikaze

German:
U-Boats
Karl Galster
Kondor

The rest of the units in the game have their own merits for the most part, but I think the above units particularly stand out against compareable options.

[Thalan]

The Atlanta's were very powerfull little ships.

A good tactic is to hold it back and screen larger units. Once the enemy air power has been destroyed move them up to attack.

Their gunnery is not bad but most importantly it has torpedo's so it can pay for its self if used right.

[oddfellow]

The Atlanta's were very powerfull little ships.

A good tactic is to hold it back and screen larger units. Once the enemy air power has been destroyed move them up to attack.

Their gunnery is not bad but most importantly it has torpedo's so it can pay for its self if used right.


I do have an Atlanta, played it, and it is one awesome little ship. Makes minced meat out of any air attack. Its one of my favorites.