A response so good it needed its own thread

[Colonel_Coo]

View it this way: Set V was designed for a final exit to the game. The Axis get thier air superiority fighter, a cheap tank to match the sherman, other smaller pieces such as the Hero for Italy. When all this is done the Game design is still 12 months from release of SET V. See it takes that long to make the molds, check them, correct them, start the pieces, etcetera. Nine months from release date the first Set V pieces start printing. 2 months from release to about 1 month from release the final product volume is produced and starts for distribution. 3 weeks from release date, the game is on trucks bound for distribution. 1 week from release date local distributors have them.

But see for the 9 months leading up to set V NO WORK is occuring for the continuation of the game. Why should it? The original game is all-AXIS versus all-ALLIES. In that game, set V is it. Everything you'll ever need.

meanwhile, too much inventory remaining from Set I and Set II. WotC pulls the plug on future development work and then WotC drops the price. Set V will be it.

Suddenly though the game picks up steam.
But see, the game isn't being played that way WotC envisioned. Older players are shunning the silly organized play (which becomes non-existant) abut BUY big time. WoTC does some market research into what the hell is going on. Meanwhile, demand is growing. People are buying big into the game. Research comes back and says HUGE POOL of BUYERs waiting for prepainted 15mm pieces. Lists are made of what they want. tanks, transports, bazooka's, a captain, the Tigers. . .

So, heads are put together. . What to do, what to do? Start on Set VI: Nort Africa. 15 months minimum for 45 all new pieces. Wait, you said you want 60 per set! Holy crap! Make 18 months. We can't wait 18 months for a whole new set! We need something sooner.

Let's kill two birds with one stone. Let's fix the problems that we can in a "best of" set between now and SET VI. So many problems arise that they're back to 18 months for a wait. Fine, stop. What pieces "work"? A list is drawn up. What pieces are fan favorites and need correction? Another list. Cross those two lists with the HUGE POOL of BUYERS pool. Great. 12 or 15 need rework, the rest are ready to go. Only 25 the units are vehicles. We've the molds for the rest. Great, now we're down to under half the time.

Oh, Mr. GM, this is Bob. He's done some great work on new maps. About 1 week later we've new balance maps. Good work Bob.

Manufacturing begins on the uncommons and commons. No wows. Improvements made on the premium pieces. Wows all around.

rules are made and printed.

Meanwhile, Mr. Gm, this is Bob. He listens to the board alot. They've got real issues we've got to address to make this game work. See we've got to make it somewhat more accurate in game mechanics.
So work begins on the expanded rules which are made in parallel to correct game issues. too late to include in the "Hold them over, get new blood" release between set V and Set VI. Send them as a sperate product. Oh, crap they've got printed in BW.

But business reality sets in. See the business group has spent big money on the game and even resulted in other games being delay yet they haven't released a new revenue stream in over a year. They've got to release those rules anyway just to keep going.

the Laison position is pulled from the pressure. A new guy comes in. Hard as nails, drinks raw eggs for breakfast to wash down the dry oats he eats. Mr GamerZer0.

And the rest is history. Game is released. New excitement grows. The game continues.


THAT'S why no new infantry. That's why no new planes. See they had to be painted anyway. a new paint job goes a long way: that's why women wear makeup.

[Kaufschtick]

See they had to be painted anyway. a new paint job goes a long way: that's why women wear makeup.

LOL!!!:D That is just so wrong!:D :D Cars get new paint jobs, not women!:D LOL!!

[118th_MPCo_abn]

Too funny!!!
Thanks for sharing:D

[Cruizin2000]

And don't forget - no new vehicles either.

A 60 piece set with ONE new piece in it - the Spitfire.

I liked your story too.

C2K

[BrenGun]

The humor is great, truly, but my perception of the events are simpler:

Executive: Kill this brand. We're losing money. It is much more cost-intensive than other miniatures games, and it is selling like a dog.

Advocate: I think we can make this brand work, we just need to make radical changes, and lower the costs.

Executive: <unimpressed> Lets just kill it.

Advocate: If I fix the QC, if I keep my costs lower than before, if I normalize the scale to possibly attract other gamers and if I slowly raise the quality of the product, but reduce the cost, will you give me a shot?

Executive: You got one year, two sets. Show me what you can do.

Advocate: You got it.

It's that simple folks. This game was dead on a vine, until someone or some group of people, convinced Hasbro to give it another shot, with a standard scale, improve QC and a lower cost.

If it sells, we get more sets. If it dies...well it was dead anyway. You don't take a successful brand and radically alter it like this, UNLESS it was already going to die.

You have two choices:

1. Support this new iteration.

2. Forget it exists and play with what you already have.

If more people choose 1, we might just keep this game alive. If they had kept to status quo, this entire forum would probably have been deleted, and we'd be looking at yet another brand/game in the WOTC graveyard.

[angelofdeath]

I -wanted- to support this new direction.. if it had been new enough.

I'll buy the North Africa set. But this 1939-1945 set is just silly. I was all worked up over something actually new (like 'command tanks'.. now that was a misinterpretation ..).

Maybe a few starters for the nice big tanks, though :)

[Photoner Hawkwind]

As I said about this initial post on the original thread. I love this post.

This is probably very close to how WOTC Management actually understands the situation.

[aquarius]

Wow. That was very impressive.







Do you work at WoTC or something?

[hornet69]

Very funny thread..lets hope it does not get hijacked or bumped to the rec room

[fifleche]

Ahhhh... the Rec Room... where threads go to die...

*sight*

[Cpt. John Miller]

The humor is great, truly, but my perception of the events are simpler:

Executive: Kill this brand. We're losing money. It is much more cost-intensive than other miniatures games, and it is selling like a dog.

Advocate: I think we can make this brand work, we just need to make radical changes, and lower the costs.

Executive: <unimpressed> Lets just kill it.

Advocate: If I fix the QC, if I keep my costs lower than before, if I normalize the scale to possibly attract other gamers and if I slowly raise the quality of the product, but reduce the cost, will you give me a shot?

Executive: You got one year, two sets. Show me what you can do.

Advocate: You got it.

It's that simple folks. This game was dead on a vine, until someone or some group of people, convinced Hasbro to give it another shot, with a standard scale, improve QC and a lower cost.

If it sells, we get more sets. If it dies...well it was dead anyway. You don't take a successful brand and radically alter it like this, UNLESS it was already going to die.

You have two choices:

1. Support this new iteration.

2. Forget it exists and play with what you already have.

If more people choose 1, we might just keep this game alive. If they had kept to status quo, this entire forum would probably have been deleted, and we'd be looking at yet another brand/game in the WOTC graveyard.

With that much insight and such a small number of posts I believe you may be an insider posing as a casual member................
Are you perhaps the "Advocate" you speak of?

[polish_horsy]

the people I feel sorry for are those that bought a ton of Minis and now choose to go big on option 1 for Maxis. They could get stuck with TWO incomplete sets at different scales as this game dies after North Africa. That would really suck.

[PUNISHER]

A&A today, A&A tomorrow, and A&A forever!

[Pasalades]

the people I feel sorry for are those that bought a ton of Minis and now choose to go big on option 1 for Maxis. They could get stuck with TWO incomplete sets at different scales as this game dies after North Africa. That would really suck.

It won't. Just watch and wait. Perhaps folks who don't like the new set might buy into 2.0 after its been around for a few years.

[oddfellow]

the people I feel sorry for are those that bought a ton of Minis and now choose to go big on option 1 for Maxis. They could get stuck with TWO incomplete sets at different scales as this game dies after North Africa. That would really suck.

Thats assuming the game dies after N. Africa. I prefer to be optomistic, and besides, incomplete sets are not the end of the world. I somehow managed to miss out on a few pieces from the first 5 sets, yet my world did not end. I happily played the many units that I did have and I've enjoyed years of fun so far with this game, though I'd hardly categorize v 1.0 as grossly incomplete. No Matilda, no US MG (use the quad or vickers), no Russian AA (use lend lease Bofors), but for the most part if offers a wealth of units and covers pretty much all unit achetypes. No war game is going to offer all the units people want, but AAM offers some 200+ unique units to play. Thats a pretty good list to pick from.

[Cruizin2000]

the people I feel sorry for are those that bought a ton of Minis and now choose to go big on option 1 for Maxis. They could get stuck with TWO incomplete sets at different scales as this game dies after North Africa. That would really suck.

I agree with you there. All you need is a Spitfire or two and the info for the new unit costs/SAs and you're done.

It's like that tale about the turtle taking the scorpion across the river.

C2k

[Kaufschtick]

It won't. Just watch and wait. Perhaps folks who don't like the new set might buy into 2.0 after its been around for a few years.

I'm thinking the competition may have some offerings on the table by then...

[Cruizin2000]

I'm thinking the competition may have some offerings on the table by then...

That's for sure!!

BTW, I like your new avatar - it reminds me of that attorney that Martin Short used to play. I think that that is Wizards new spokesman.:D

"I'm not being defensive, you're the one that's be defensive".

C2K

[bresh]

It won't. Just watch and wait. Perhaps folks who don't like the new set might buy into 2.0 after its been around for a few years.

Personnaly i doubt that. Unless they sell sets in 2 scales "old" and new.

Regards
Bresh

[Cruizin2000]

Personnaly i doubt that. Unless they sell sets in 2 scales "old" and new.

Regards
Bresh

Selling in TWO scales would be the best thing for this game - period!!! EVERYONE would be happy baring the foul up or two that every set seems to have. I would want the 1.0 to have the same booster make up as before - 9 units, 15 rares, etc.

C2K

[Colonel_Coo]

With that much insight and such a small number of posts I believe you may be an insider posing as a casual member................
Are you perhaps the "Advocate" you speak of?

Small number of posts? Must be sarcasm. (I think I am in the mid to up 3500's in post totals)

Captain Miller, I am a product line manager for a Japanese company. I have launched 1 product previously at one company and designed to release another product with another company. Marketing research is not easy to do and get accurate. Companies can try to turn on a dime, but in reality it takes 1 to 3 years to get a "fast tracked" project made.
Currently I have to start the US launch of products engineered in Tokyo. Not an easy task with virtually 0 input from US users. My feedback typcially takes 1 year to implement. (for instance we launched a new product last DEcemeber. My feedback for improvements are released this month and in December. 10 & 12 months for product updates to be implemented)

Market size, market share, street pricing and % margin as compared to engineering resources invested always plays a part. getting a set out on the cheap is always beneficial. High Margins, low engineering investment. Actually I doubt its called engineering investments; likley called designer cost.

Products are planned for years of shelf life. I imagine collectible game design is the same. 3 years of product for the Version 1.0 of AAM. Now, likely an open ended design for use. I expect to see a 60 unit set released with theater specific designed units (explosive Shermans, non-water cooled german vehicles etc) with a thought out Game/History book of the battles that inspired the units. The book would have additional maps. Figure $25 to $40 for the scenario book with additional maps. Also a starter set for each major release. We should see "stand alone" sets of AAM like North Africa for Set VII for quite a while, but eventually that will lose steam.

Meanwhile, AH has some pretty popular table games with no ability to use the mini's as part of it. The table game offers no synergy with the mini's game. That is a mistake. I would expect to see a co-release in about 3 years of the AAM and AA Board game. Each battle game now becomes a cause celeb for an AAM release. Likely a 60 unit set of AAM with a follow up release 6 months later to flesh out the units involved. The next year, you'll see a new battle game with its associated mini's game.
That takes the game out to 6 years from now.

Given the restricted nature of the game (6 years of war and historical designs) and the cash cow it offers, you should see some pretty cool adaptations. Star Wars has unlimited potential and can just put units & factions out at will. Axis and Allies must be better managed with its restrictions.

I look for the reintroduction of some modified Hero Mechanic (maybe getting historically based by theatre performance). Aslo, I figure we'll see some new function for each major set. Next set has already stated to be command tanks. Eventually we'll see terrain tiles or hex edge modifications. Maybe a Church tower like we saw in another sites contest? Hopefully, we'll see the ARMS RACE that was present in WWII.