Minor victory game with Colonial garrison

[Drax Kramer]

Last night I tried the Minor Victory game with Colonial Garrison NA. Although we weren't able to finish the game due to time constraints, the playout for the first three turns was promising and the outcome was in balance when we had to stop.

I think that Minor Victory with Colonial garrison is playable game. With more games in our bag, we would be able to see whether we have a balanced game or another NA like Chinese Divisions is going to be needed.


Drax

[series]

well, I guess they put these NAs in the game to balance it- we all see how well that worked :eek: but i guess using the right ones can help.

[squirecam]

Last night I tried the Minor Victory game with Colonial Garrison NA. Although we weren't able to finish the game due to time constraints, the playout for the first three turns was promising and the outcome was in balance when we had to stop.

I think that Minor Victory with Colonial garrison is playable game. With more games in our bag, we would be able to see whether we have a balanced game or another NA like Chinese Divisions is going to be needed.


Drax

I'm sorry, I have to disagree. The colonial garrison NA is the best UK NA and unbalances any game where it is the only NA, whether it is a 8 VC game or 10VC.

You do not need 15 IPC to the allies, which is what you are doing, in order to balance a 8VC game.

Squirecam

[Drax Kramer]

I'm sorry, I have to disagree. The colonial garrison NA is the best UK NA and unbalances any game where it is the only NA, whether it is a 8 VC game or 10VC.

Have you found some other way allowed by the printed rules to balance the 8 VC game?

I am not interested in bidding since this mechanism is just another house rule only implemented at the setup.

You do not need 15 IPC to the allies, which is what you are doing, in order to balance a 8VC game.

I am reluctant to put IPC value on everything. Five infantry does not equal a fighter and armor anytime, everywhere.

For all I care, IC could cost 5 IPCs or 50 IPCs. If it was up to me, I'd put IC in India as a part of the standard setup because British had the ability to raise troops in India in Spring 1942.


Drax

[pagan]

For a balanced 8VC game, I think that it would benefit the allies if the VC count only occured at the next turn of the country with the 8th VC grab, NOt at the end of US turn.

[zooooma]

I'm sorry, I have to disagree. The colonial garrison NA is the best UK NA and unbalances any game where it is the only NA, whether it is a 8 VC game or 10VC.
Squirecam


Have you found some other way allowed by the printed rules to balance the 8 VC game?Drax


If Colonial Garrison is too much for the Allies, Radar and Enigma Decoded both also serve to protect India.

What about one NA (of choice) for each nation? Uk will surely chose Colonial Garrison in an eight VP game, but every other nation gets something too. And hey, why stop at one? Each nation could get anywhere from one to six advantages - as long as UK gets one of the three aforementioned NAs then India can hold, at least at first. I have not yet sufficiently refined my strategies as to say what is and isn't ballanced, but I'm sure that there is some number (1-6) of NAs per nation that would be close to ballanced.

Any other thoughts on multiple NAs for Minor Victory?

Happy gaming.
-Luke

[Lobo]

I'm glad to see someone experimenting with NA's to balance the game. Too many veteran players are set in their ways and not willing to try this even though they were included in the OM for that purpose.

[Drax Kramer]

When I first introduced new Axis to my group (Axis players since 1990) we naturally played 8 VC to get ourselves familiar with the new game.

Axis won quickly due to some serious mistakes from Allied side. Armed with this experience and the collective wisdom of this and Don's forum I reccomended using Colonial Garrison to see how would it look like.

Up for now, it looks better than playing without NA's. We won't add more NA's until we are satisfied with the first one. It is easier to test the game with little increments.

If the game remains balanced towards Axis, we'll probably add Chinese Divisions. If, on the other hand, the balances tilts in Allied favour we might consider German or Japanese NA.

Once I start implementing house rules I'd be unable to stop. :D


Drax

[squirecam]

Have you found some other way allowed by the printed rules to balance the 8 VC game?

I am not interested in bidding since this mechanism is just another house rule only implemented at the setup.



I am reluctant to put IPC value on everything. Five infantry does not equal a fighter and armor anytime, everywhere.

For all I care, IC could cost 5 IPCs or 50 IPCs. If it was up to me, I'd put IC in India as a part of the standard setup because British had the ability to raise troops in India in Spring 1942.


Drax

There is a simple choice here.

1 - Play an 8 VC game with some sort of small bid.

2 - Play a 9 VC game, with the ninth VC in Hawaii instead of Los Angeles.

The 9 VC game is totally balanced, requiring no bid.

You cannot balance the 8 VC game with NA's, as they merely unbalance the game for the other side.

Also, 15 IPC, whether in the form of 5 Inf, 3 Armor, 3 Art and an Inf, or an IC, is too much given to the allies in an 8 VC game, especially in tournament play.

If your playing for fun, just play and dont worry about balance. If you want a balanced game, play 9 VC.

Squirecam

[Drax Kramer]

What is balanced or not is completely in the eyes of the beholder, i.e. particular group of players. That 8 VC game was probably slanted in the favour of Axis has been observed by most of my friends the moment they saw the map and heard the victory conditions.

Our very next game has been played with Colonial Garrison.

Now, it is entirely possible that after five or more games we might reach the conclusion that Allies are now in favour.

What remains constant is that no matter which NAs we include we would still play by the rules, not by this or that collection of house rules.

As some game designers often say, these are our games and we can play with them any way we like including the house rules. And if I ever decide to start introducing house rules in the game, I'll come up with some sort of combination between my own ideas and the collective wisdom of A&A community.

For the moment, I prefer to play they way designers imagined regardless of what I think of some of the rules.

[Atlantikwall]

Hello,

I would like to play my first (trial) 8 VC game with collonial garrison (and FIDA-bid) against a skilled opponent. LowLuck server (no tech) at flames-of-europe.de preferred!

[elbowmaster]

playing with out any advantages or tech end up being marathon games for us...over 15 hours off and on, on our last game...

we will try NA's next game, just for something different....

-cheers

-elbowmaster

[auerja]

What is balanced or not is completely in the eyes of the beholder, i.e. particular group of players. That 8 VC game was probably slanted in the favour of Axis has been observed by most of my friends the moment they saw the map and heard the victory conditions.

Our very next game has been played with Colonial Garrison.

One cannot fairly call the 8VC game unbalanced after a glance at the map and one game played. It may take the Allied players several tries before they realize just how much attention is needed to defend India adequately. Once they do, however, the game becomes a true contest. At the end of round 3, an Allied player "in the know" can have India defended with upwards of 9 inf (4 Russian), 6 tanks (Russian), and 13 fighters (2 Russian, 2 US). Japan--whether its Turn 1 build is 2 IC, all transports, or some mix--is not even close to having a viable attack against this defense.

An 8VC game with no bid or NA's may indeed be unbalanced, but I think quite a few games should be logged in before this verdict is reached. A losing chess player can claim the game is unbalanced to little avail. Just as standard opening sequences in chess are devastating if the appropriate countermoves have not been memorized, in the same way the Axis seems unbeatable in an 8VC game if appropriate countermeasures in India are not taken.