Gotta love the T-35!

[Blood n' Brains]

Tonight was my first time using the T-35 in a battle. It performed amazingly well. Although I could not use it's multi-turreted feature well, it did get one shot per turn that withered German infantry. In the first six turns, it disrupted an MG42 along with 2 Wehrmacht Vets and later killed three Wehrmacht Vets. Round seven was amazing. The T-35 got into the perfect position to take lethal shots on a disrupted Hetzer (from the rear) and a damaged Panzer IV (from the front). It obliterated both targets, and the damaged Panzer IV missed! I'm sold on the T-35, and will include it in my Russian armies from now on! I know it needs a KV-1 or T-34 close by to help handle some of the bigger boys, but it is all that I could ask for in a tank to accompany my infantry advance and protect the rear. Now, if my opponent had used planes, I might be singing a different tune...

[fecktor]

If only it wasn't so slow :)

At least he does have very good AI dice for a tank, so he might just hurt the offending plane, if your opponent had played one.

[Qmark]

T35 is a fun tank to look at and consider playing, but it's got a horrible case of glass-ass. Any of the game's planes can take it out in one shot, easily.

[fecktor]

T35 is a fun tank to look at and consider playing, but it's got a horrible case of glass-ass. Any of the game's planes can take it out in one shot, easily.

Well I wouldn't say "any planes" can take it out easily... most will still require a perfect 4 out of 4 success to take it out in one shot (not all are bombers, after all! :D ). But granted, 2 turn of shooting will probably be enough to destroy it, though :)

[Latro]

If possible, I always take that beast in any early-year battles. It looks intimidating and shoots very good as well. Okay, it really needs to park its behind against a hill or in the bushes ... but since the Soviets are usually defending in those battles anyway that's not a big problem.


:cool:

(Oh, and it's cheap too!)

[Marquis]

Th3 T-35 will kill any plane that gets close enough to kill it. Trading it for a plane should be an acceptable loss to the Russian player. I've faced many a T-35 and if placed sideways the can shoot up everyone - and forget about close assualting them....

I agree this is probalby the most overlooked piece.

[Blood n' Brains]

I guess another good thing about the T-35 is that if an airplane goes for its rear end, it can shoot the plane down and shoot another unit in front of it. AI 10/10/8 is awesome. It can take out a lot of points, even if it gets blown up from behind.

[Blood n' Brains]

I love it, also, that it doesn't look too shabby sitting next to a '39-'45 KV-1. Even if it is out-of-scale, it's still longer.

[VonMephit]

I love the T-35! Good infantry killing dice, nice looking peice. I just would not build a army around it.

[Heir_Ludendorff]

The key to beating the T-35 is actually having a couple of fast tanks to get around behind and make it go pop. Problem there is that WotC decided that no German tank is to be faster than speed 2... Really the Pz II should be at least a 3.

[Latro]

The key to beating the T-35 is actually having a couple of fast tanks to get around behind and make it go pop. Problem there is that WotC decided that no German tank is to be faster than speed 2... Really the Pz II should be at least a 3.

The Panzer II, III and IV are all speed 3 ... but the Panzer II and III should have been made speed 4 because they were just as fast as the Sherman.


:cool:

[Qmark]

I love the T-35! Good infantry killing dice, nice looking peice. I just would not build a army around it.That's my opinion. I have no real use for it, much like Higgins boats, but seek to stockpile mass amounts of both (7 Higgins, 3 T35's at present).

[FSSF]

Th3 T-35 will kill any plane that gets close enough to kill it. Trading it for a plane should be an acceptable loss to the Russian player. I've faced many a T-35 and if placed sideways the can shoot up everyone - and forget about close assualting them....

I agree this is probalby the most overlooked piece.

I am with here Marquis!
Yes, the T-35 has a vulnerable rear.
But, at 18 points, it's still an even trade against most airplanes.

I also think like Blood n' Brains that it is an amazing piece.
I try to put at least one in all my Soviet armies.
Remember that it is only 18 points and you get your money's (or rather your point's) worth for that amount.

First it is a 1939 unit!
Only France can field better tanks in 1939.
It is the best anti-infantry unit of 1939 with 10/10/8 "Multiturreted", and don't forget "Overlapping Fire".

So the rear defense is only 2... You can't expect to get this kind of firepower for 18 points AND get solid defense all-around as well. Don't forget that a frontal defense of 4 is still pretty decent. So you need to protect it's flanks... Or even better, outflank your opponent bfore he outflanks you... That's where the T-35 best buddy come in: the BT-7. Perfect complement to the big guy: it's more than twice as fast (Speed 5 and High Gear 1) and it even gets "Excellent Suspension" to the T-35 "Poor Suspension" (not that it ever made a difference in any game I played but I just wanted to point that out anyway :D ). I like to play 2 of them with my T-35. :D

And contrary to a lot of early war units, both these tanks can still be played late in the war as fillers and/or flankers.

[Latro]

I am with here Marquis!
Yes, the T-35 has a vulnerable rear.
But, at 18 points, it's still an even trade against most airplanes.


Just to put things back into perspective:

T-35 v. Enemy Aircraft (10 dice at 5+ to hit)

a 44% chance to disrupt
a 21% chance to destroy

... a nice bonus if it happens, but not something to rely on.


:cool:

[FSSF]

Just to put things back into perspective:

T-35 v. Enemy Aircraft (10 dice at 5+ to hit)

a 44% chance to disrupt
a 21% chance to destroy

... a nice bonus if it happens, but not something to rely on.


:cool:

Still, since the Soviets don't have any AA gun, aside from the 21 points Sturmovik, the T-35 is pretty much their best AA unit. :)

[Rick]

The key to beating the T-35 is actually having a couple of fast tanks to get around behind and make it go pop. Problem there is that WotC decided that no German tank is to be faster than speed 2... Really the Pz II should be at least a 3.

You seem to have forgotten that lovely little German early war tank called the PzKpfw 38(t) speed 4 AT attack of 8/7/5 10pts. Those stats are more than enough to at least damage that T-35 if not kill it out right. Heck even that lowely Kfz 222 has a close in AT attack of 4, which is more than capable of disrupting the T-35. No, the T-35 may be a hard hitter, but it definately has a glass jaw.

[Blood n' Brains]

I like it, glass jaw and all. Keeping it tight with my infantry formation allowed them to make breakthroughs and helped protect it from some of the threats posed to it. Also, playing in the 200 point format with a KV-1 on either side didn't hurt too much. I will look for opportunities to employ it down the road.

[TW1Kell]

I'm really confused, now. Every German tank in 39-45 is speed 3 or 4. What does Heir Ludendorff mean by his "Problem there is that WotC decided that no German tank is to be faster than speed 2... Really the Pz II should be at least a 3." remark?

What did I miss?

[fecktor]

I'm really confused, now. Every German tank in 39-45 is speed 3 or 4. What does Heir Ludendorff mean by his "Problem there is that WotC decided that no German tank is to be faster than speed 2... Really the Pz II should be at least a 3." remark?

What did I miss?

You missed that he's sour :)

[FSSF]

Another thing that is nice with the T-35: german BMW bikes have a tough time getting to Close Assault it! :D

[Heir_Ludendorff]

I din't have the cards on hand, and as was said am sour about recon tanks being slow as dirt....

[TW1Kell]

Cool. I was just puzzled as I'm new to the game, and thought I might have missed some FAQ, or something. No smart-aleckyness intended.

[Volorkey]

Alot of the more noobish players in my community pulled them from packs and I remember their reaction. "wow that looks cool! look how big it is it must be an awsome piece!" (looks at card) "nevermind this just sucks!" I was able to buy two of them for two bucks each! Just because it's huge does not mean it is a beast. The tank has to be played right and if it is it can match up to any early war panzer new players spend to much time drooling over more expensive tanks and over look the t-35's strong points, including it's 18 point cost, of the t-35.

[Qmark]

over look the t-35's strong points, including it's 18 point cost, of the t-35.Or the ten AI dice.

[Dr.Cornelius]

Still, since the Soviets don't have any AA gun, aside from the 21 points Sturmovik, the T-35 is pretty much their best AA unit. :)If you use Expanded Rules, all of the Allies can use the Bofors and all Axis can use the 20mm FlaK.

[boersma8]

Still, since the Soviets don't have any AA gun, aside from the 21 points Sturmovik, the T-35 is pretty much their best AA unit. :)

WE always allow the Soviets to use a land-leased Bofors or two....Not too big a fan of the Bofors, though. It's way underpriced! With the expanded rules it's even become better! ( Overwatch against early war tanks and also deadly in overwatch against soldiers......)

[boersma8]

If you use Expanded Rules, all of the Allies can use the Bofors and all Axis can use the 20mm FlaK.

Where did you read that in the expanded rules booklet???????:confused:

BTW, it's always been " allowed" to use any allied units in an army together or any axis units for that matter...They suggest you could refrain from it if you want to play somewhat historically, but many visitors of this forum have Soviet commissars chew up Kuomintang riflemen, use Japanese pieces in a German build ( Seargeant) etc. I must say, I hate that myself, but AFAIK there's no rule prohibiting it.....

[FSSF]

Hi Dr.Cornelius!
The group of friends I play with haven't adopted the Expanded rules yet.
I'm trying to get them interested in the platoons...
Where doesn it say that allies can use the Bofors and the Axis can use the 20mm FlaK?

[fecktor]

Hi Dr.Cornelius!
The group of friends I play with haven't adopted the Expanded rules yet.
I'm trying to get them interested in the platoons...
Where doesn it say that allies can use the Bofors and the Axis can use the 20mm FlaK?

Well..... no need for the expended rules, in the normal, basic Advanced rules, all Allies are the same side, and all Axis units are on the same side, so they can freely mix and match. So you can build an all-russian force with a Bofor, no problem :) Same goes for the Axis, you can always take a 20mm flak, regardless of the other units you take to fill out your points.

[TW1Kell]

In our case, (my little game group) we are so new that we have very few pieces. I have about 700 or more points of Soviet, but I have to loan my US asnd Commonwealth out. I gave all of my Axis to another player (I pull the best of German units every booster!) and he has to mix German and Japanese to have a decent 200 point or greater build. Ya do what ya gotta do.

[Richter von Manthofen]

Don't mix up the historical players that use only "Russian" units in Russian armies,... and the player who "just" plays Advanced Rules (since 2005 available - NOT changed by vers. 2.0 minis).

The Advanced rules limit only that each side can either play Axis OR Allies, but not both in a build.

The optional historical approach limits you a bit which countries can be mixed in an Army.

the Enhanced rules (2007) give us platoons = usually making units cheaper and help (sometimes) break the unit limit - they are optional
Enhanced Rules also give bonus points to all countries (Except US+GE) if you make a build from a single country (Canada and Australia Count as British for this)

You are only limited to single nation builds if you want those bonus points, but this is limited to each 100 point build, so if you want to play 200 points you can also play 100 points of Italians + bonus points and 100 points of Germans (no bonus because Germany never gets this bonus)

Beware if a unit is part of a platoon it is considered to be of the nation of the platoon, so in a Firefly platoon (UK) the 2 M4A1 are not considered US pieces (Important if you add an US M1 Mortar), but UK - thus entitling to the point bonus...

ALL Clear NOW?

[Harold76]

You indirectly answered two questions I was going to post, which was if the Enhanced Rules still did the bonus points for single nation limits by 100, and if a unit in a platoon thats not normally that nation is considered that nation for the platoon use (Bren Gunner in French platoon).

Thanks.

[TW1Kell]

What? Where are these rules? Is this from the Enhanced Rulebook? I haven't heard of the bonuses for single nation builds, or anything. Is this tourney legal stuff? We are trying to get sanctioned. The venue ownner has finally agreed to allow itr, as long as WotC doesn't hate him too much to allow it! Woo Hoo!

[Latro]

Expanded Rules.


:cool:

[FSSF]

Well..... no need for the expended rules, in the normal, basic Advanced rules, all Allies are the same side, and all Axis units are on the same side, so they can freely mix and match. So you can build an all-russian force with a Bofor, no problem Same goes for the Axis, you can always take a 20mm flak, regardless of the other units you take to fill out your points.

Sorry Fektor, my bad. :o
I knew that of course, I've been playing since the very first set. :D
I should have mentionned that,with my regular war buddies, we usually play historical single nation only. :)

Well, we also usually accept all minor axis (Italy, Hungary, Romania) to team up together.

[Qmark]

What? Where are these rules? Is this from the Enhanced Rulebook?Yes. Is this tourney legal stuff? No. The Standard Floor Rules (http://www.wizards.com/dci/downloads/AAM_FLR_18aug06.pdf) makes no mention of single nation bonus, but the SFR itself hasn't been updated since August... of '06.

Here are the Single Nation Bonus numbers, as per the Expanded Rules:
France - 105
Soviets - 105
Commonwealth - 105
China - 110
Italy - 110
Japan 110
Hungary - 115
Romania - 115
Poland - 115
USA - 100
Germany - 100

[FSSF]

Yes. No. The Standard Floor Rules (http://www.wizards.com/dci/downloads/AAM_FLR_18aug06.pdf) makes no mention of single nation bonus, but the SFR itself hasn't been updated since August... of '06.

Here are the Single Nation Bonus numbers, as per the Expanded Rules:
France - 105
Soviets - 105
Commonwealth - 105
China - 110
Italy - 110
Japan 110
Hungary - 115
Romania - 115
Poland - 115
USA - 100
Germany - 100

I think the Single point bonus was a good idea, but Do the Soviets really need it? They have the best tanks in the game, a wide variety of units (except a MG and AA gun).

[Qmark]

The Commonwealth really doesn't need it either.

[Richter von Manthofen]

The Commonwealth really doesn't need it either.

But now I can field an army of 3 Churchills :D

[TW1Kell]

So, if I field a Soviet-pure army, I get 105 points of build for each 100 point army? Or am I not "getting it?" Why do I feel like the neutered dog?

[oddfellow]

So, if I field a Soviet-pure army, I get 105 points of build for each 100 point army? Or am I not "getting it?" Why do I feel like the neutered dog?

That's correct. The bonus is per 100 points, so in a 200 point game if you field pure Soviet you can use 110 points and so on.

[Latro]

That's correct. The bonus is per 100 points, so in a 200 point game if you field pure Soviet you can use 110 points and so on.

Which makes me wonder ...

If I was playing a hypothetical 1000 pts pure Soviet force ... would the 100 extra bonus points allow me to take yet another 10 bonus points? And what about playing a 10000 pts Soviet army? Would that give me 1000 points extra, which gives me 100 points extra, which gives me 10 points extra?


:cool:

[Harold76]

Heheh.. I would say no. but amusing.

[NorthernRommel]

The entire purpose of the formation cards is to provide that same bonus. Platoon cards should only be allowed for use with single nation armies.

There are certain units that should be generic between armies given the lack of units available for some nations.

[Richter von Manthofen]

Many Axis natios bought Panzers sooner or later - and used them to more or less sucess

I liked the HHR aproach allowing differnt pieces to be used by more than one nation...