North Africa set up!

[warspite]

The North Africa set is listed on the minis page, now.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=ah/aam/NorthAfrica

New units (60 total):

M-1o Wolverine
Matilda
PzIV-H(?)
trucks
commander tanks
return of German 88mm
new maps?

March 2008

w00t! :D

[Qmark]

And a Desert Fox is on the loose...
Hmmm... there seems to be a slight chance we'll get a couple dozen threads decrying unique units as "kiddy fantasy crap".

[NeuralDream]

kiddy fantasy crap

[Pletch]

Is the Mk. IV on the front our first look at a Commander Tank?

[J.L.Robert]

Hmmm... there seems to be a slight chance we'll get a couple dozen threads decrying unique units as "kiddy fantasy crap".

Unless Erwin Rommel DIDN'T command the DAK, then it'll just be people trying to read into something that's not there just to continue bashing Avalon Hill.

Let's nip this in the bud. It's in the teaser, it's not describing the set contents themselves. The sky is not falling.

[Crow T Robot]

Got to admit though it is a clever way to sell the exact same model... Unless of coarse one of the few new units are command.

[horacus]

Well, sounds nice.

[WotC_Matt]

Hmmm... there seems to be a slight chance we'll get a couple dozen threads decrying unique units as "kiddy fantasy crap".

Guys, don't worry, that's just color text. It's not a clue about which units you'll see.

[Lynx7725]

Guys, don't worry, that's just color text. It's not a clue about which units you'll see.
So, how about giving us a clue? :D

[TW1Kell]

It always amazes me how people that love a particular game can decry everything released in a new set. It is what has killed my other favorite gameline, in my area. I am not acusing any of you of doing this, but you are all expecting it to happen, as well.

Think about it for a moment; AH has to make a profit to continue to produce the game releases, but some will complain about everything offered. I have never understood that human fault. In my other game, my faction was not released in 3 sets in a row. We had the same old difficult to play pieces (because of our faction paradigm) for over a year. I held my online community of the Wolf Clan together through it. We were left out of 4 total sets, then completely redesigned into mercenaries, then re-released 2 sets later as the most powerful of the entire game. I was told by the Powers That Be, that this was a reward for our loyalty. "The sky is aflling is the current cry on that company's boards, but my Wolves (They elected me the Khan, or Supreme Ruler and I am recognized as such by the company and was allowed to write a pre-release sneak peek for our faction's most famous character and BattleMech unit) are still active in the boards. Moreso than any other faction.

Accept that we are getting some new/different units and enjoy them. The sky can't fall, it's all around us. Above and below! hahaha!

Now, having said that...

...YAY! We are getting a new set in what...3-4 months??!!! WOO HOO!

[J.L.Robert]

So, how about giving us a clue? :D

Sure! Let's get a complete spoiler list 4 months before the set's been released!

Oh, wait...there would just be something else to complain about. :(

[Richter von Manthofen]

What makes me hoping for another game improvement (see i word it positive ;)) is the mentioning of "artillery" - sure that could be our well known Mortar and ATG thingy, but it also could be the advent of real Artillery like the FH 18 for the Germans or one of the (can't remember the name) something pounder of the Brits - and god may prevent an real powerful Japanese mountain gun.

ONE CAN HOPE...

[Randebar]

Thought I recognized the name....

sorry, no wolves here....maybe in the naval forum :p



It always amazes me how people that love a particular game can decry everything released in a new set. It is what has killed my other favorite gameline, in my area. I am not acusing any of you of doing this, but you are all expecting it to happen, as well.

Think about it for a moment; AH has to make a profit to continue to produce the game releases, but some will complain about everything offered. I have never understood that human fault. In my other game, my faction was not released in 3 sets in a row. We had the same old difficult to play pieces (because of our faction paradigm) for over a year. I held my online community of the Wolf Clan together through it. We were left out of 4 total sets, then completely redesigned into mercenaries, then re-released 2 sets later as the most powerful of the entire game. I was told by the Powers That Be, that this was a reward for our loyalty. "The sky is aflling is the current cry on that company's boards, but my Wolves (They elected me the Khan, or Supreme Ruler and I am recognized as such by the company and was allowed to write a pre-release sneak peek for our faction's most famous character and BattleMech unit) are still active in the boards. Moreso than any other faction.

Accept that we are getting some new/different units and enjoy them. The sky can't fall, it's all around us. Above and below! hahaha!

Now, having said that...

...YAY! We are getting a new set in what...3-4 months??!!! WOO HOO!

[Anpu42]

Sure! Let's get a complete spoiler list 4 months before the set's been released!

Oh, wait...there would just be something else to complain about. :(
You said IT;)

[Colonel_Coo]

kiddy fantasy crap

Are not all war games fantasy crap. Do you really think guys would just charge out against enemy tanks and machine guns without reservations or in unison? Do you really think inititive is a matter of a die roll?

[Qmark]

Are not all war games fantasy crap.Typical week on the AAM board:
"This model is slightly under or over -sized! I demand you replace my minis!"
"This very small model is missing an even very smaller hull-mounted machine gun! I demand you errata its name to the version without the machinegun!"
"This tank's armor is too high or low for the actual armor thickness it really had. I demand you errata it to reflect this 50-page essay on WW2 armor!"
"I don't like this unit. I demand you ban it!"


There is a vastly unrealistic expectation of realism for a game that's meant to be "beer and pretzles" gaming instead of overanalysed hyper-reality.

[Colonel_Coo]

Typical week on the AAM board:
"This model is slightly under or over -sized! I demand you replace my minis!"
"This very small model is missing an even very smaller hull-mounted machine gun! I demand you errata its name to the version without the machinegun!"
"This tank's armor is too high or low for the actual armor thickness it really had. I demand you errata it to reflect this 50-page essay on WW2 armor!"
"I don't like this unit. I demand you ban it!"


There is a vastly unrealistic expectation of realism for a game that's meant to be "beer and pretzles" gaming instead of overanalysed hyper-reality.

A simple line of text to help the Better Target aspect of shooting someone not facing you would be

Add under the header of
Effects of Facing:
When a vehicle-tank or Vehicle -tank destroyer attacks an enemy vehicle from the rear, he may reroll any one die.

[Qmark]

Oh, and -
Every ten minutes on this very forum:
"Here's a convoluted houserule that fixes a percieved shortcoming nobody but grognards really cares about":o

[fecktor]

Oh, and -
Every ten minutes on this very forum:
"Here's a convoluted houserule that fixes a percieved shortcoming nobody but grognards really cares about":o

Yeah I'm really wondering if I'm the only person that plays AAM without any houserules or some sort of modification to the game...

But more on topic, I can't wait for North Africa :) At least I'll start actively buying new boosters again! (and I can't wait to see the much-talked-about Mathilda :) )

[frogczar]

Oh, and -
Every ten minutes on this very forum:
"Here's a convoluted houserule that fixes a percieved shortcoming nobody but grognards really cares about":o

LOL...so true.

[Qmark]

The last thing I want to hear when setting up a game is "okay, um, here's a list of changes that makes the game more, uh, historical <blah, blah blah>. And, um, you need to take those chinese guys out of there because they never fought with the russians."

Usually such is met with, "Okay then, around here we houserulled that it's perfectly okay to play a build with four BMW's and ten german heroes. Against another Axis army, even."

[RollingThunder]

I work at Barnes & Noble, and I was killing time on the computer the other day. What did I find you may ask? Just a listing for the NA boosters. We don't carry any other sets but we do have D&D minis. So all I could think was....discooouuuunnnt!

[Qmark]

discooouuuunnnt!Always a good decision.



Or was that Sam Adams?

[J.L.Robert]

Yeah I'm really wondering if I'm the only person that plays AAM without any houserules or some sort of modification to the game...



You're not alone. Unless you count getting 4 of my figures repainted a "modification".

I keep saying, if someone wants a more realistic tactical game, there are plenty of others to choose from. Advanced Squad Leader, Advanced Tobruk and Lock 'N Load are all rather popular systems with a lot more realism. And the Combat Command system is slowly expanding.

AAM, from the onset, was to be a lightweight game. Personally, I'd like to keep it that way. I don't want to have to think too hard when I'm pushing around my plastic army men.

[Plagued]

Sounds like the expected inclusions. We assumed the M10 and the Panzer IV beforehand. I guessed they'd add the 88 back in (maybe dismounted this time?) and the Matilda is an expected addition.

I wonder if this means we'll start seeing some previews in the coming months.

[Colonel_Coo]

Sounds like the expected inclusions. We assumed the M10 and the Panzer IV beforehand. I guessed they'd add the 88 back in (maybe dismounted this time?) and the Matilda is an expected addition.

I wonder if this means we'll start seeing some previews in the coming months.

I'd expect a front Plate on the model that impacted its protection. Maybe even a Surpise Placement. Rommel didn't kill Allied tanks with his tanks. He killed them with his 88's. His tanks just harrassed and then lured the enemy tanks to their doom.

[Qmark]

He killed them with his 88's. His tanks just harrassed and then lured the enemy tanks to their doom.Sandbagged 88 would be some good.

[Plagued]

Sandbagged 88 would be some good.

Exactly what I want.

[Colonel_Coo]

Sandbagged 88 would be some good.

Sandbagged but Surprise Placement!

[Qmark]

Sandbagged but Surprise Placement!Soldier Artillery Obstacle Trap?

[Colonel_Coo]

Soldier Artillery Obstacle Trap?

Maybe a Place at the edge of the map during your Airstrike phase.

Historically, the 88's decimated Allied Armor from long range with surprise fire. Hard to do that in a game where every piece is on the map and both players know where they all are at.

[Richter von Manthofen]

I like the installment - at least its an excuse to "guess whats next" :D

I' dbe surprised if previews start before february, but any glimpse of whats to expect is welcome---

[BrenGun]

Are we all such nerds that we forget that behind and inside these machines are human beings? Human beings with a variable amount of skill and experience operating the machine?

Are we really so naive to think that every Panzer III on the battle-field was of equal ability, based solely on some machine specification?

Isn't it possible commander tanks, signify a unit that has as advanced and experience crew in it? Didn't certain fighting units improve their fighting skills as their experience progressed?

That's not fantasy, that's hard based reality, just ask any veteran. We get so focused on the "oooh cool looking tank" we forget the machines were just tools, the real work, the real courage and the real variable into who won and who lost, was the men behind those machines.

The Spitfire didn't win the Battle of Britain, it was the pilots, the support crew and the home watch crews that won it. It was the will of the British people who won it.

Having said that, I don't think this is the ultimate set. Call it a hunch. I think this will kick the quality curve even higher than the new base set did, but I still think this brand will grow in quality even more when the eastern front set is released.

At a minimum, I'm getting a new 88, and thank goodness too, the one released in the earlier expansion is an utter embarassment.

[polish_horsy]

why is the earlier 88 an embarassment? the model is poor or the stats?

[Qmark]

Are we all such nerds that we forget that behind and inside these machines are human beings? Human beings with a variable amount of skill and experience operating the machine?
Give or take the atom bomb, I agree.why is the earlier 88 an embarassment?The only problem I've ever seen with 88 is the nearly total immobility, but the obvious 'firing lanes' on the 2" maps made being stuck not matter so much.
However, I'm sure someone has run the numbers on the 88mm shell and armor penetration on varying attack vectors blah blah blah and is miffed that it's not exactly perfectly historically accurate or something.

[Richter von Manthofen]

The AchtAcht (88) was never intended to be a weapon for a "running" battle - it performed best when used from prepared defenses - in this respect the current piece is perfect - I'd like to see one configurated for AntiAir duty though...

[Colonel_Coo]

The AchtAcht (88) was never intended to be a weapon for a "running" battle - it performed best when used from prepared defenses - in this respect the current piece is perfect - I'd like to see one configurated for AntiAir duty though...

AKA: anti-personnel. shrapnel blasts from AA guns tended to shred humans.

[Anpu42]

Sandbagged 88 would be some good.
How about a 88 in a Pillbox:D
And don't forget the Ammo Dump:rolleyes:

[Latro]

An AA-version 88 should be quite useless against aicraft providing close air-support like in this game. It simply can't traverse fast enough to target them and its rate of fire it too slow to put up a barrier of lead in the air.

It should be ace against level bombers operating from higher altitudes, but they aren't in this game.


:cool:

(PS I want a Flak Vierling!)

[Qmark]

AKA: anti-personnel. shrapnel blasts from AA guns tended to shred humans.Which is why Quad 50 is the American machine gun for this game, more or less.

[warspite]

AKA: anti-personnel. shrapnel blasts from AA guns tended to shred humans.


Yes, one at a time. The airburst rounds could do some damage, if you could hit what you're aiming at, or at least timed the detonation to be near it. As a direct fire gun, it's not likely to explode on target, but more likely overshoot anything near the ground. They don't have the rate of fire that Bofors, 20mm's and MG's do, which make up for lack of accuracy. Plus, they weren't designed to explode on impact, but at a specified altitude. They just can't approximate infantry guns or howitzers.

However, it was their high muzzle velocity that Rommel discovered made them suitable for antitank uses, even without dedicated armor-piercing rounds. Shoot anything fast enough and it will go straight through a battleship. Artillery like mortars and howitzers (and the short-barreled, low-velocity guns of StuG's and Shermans) were great for putting high-explosive rounds on soft targets, with accuracy, and enough collateral damage to kill lots of small targets, rather than one big one.

[Qmark]

Wasn't the 88's anti-air capability designed to take down big, slow strategic bombers - which do not exist in this game?

[Volorkey]

Let the new set come. We will buy them all without mercy.

[Richter von Manthofen]

:)

It was NOT discovered by Rommel that the 88 is good against tanks AFAIK it was already used in france that it was used thi way (OK Rommel was there, but occupied to move forward, no time to think about defensive measures ;))

I am fully aware that as anit air gun it is usable primarily against high (or what was high altitude then) bombers. Just Ultimately I DO want to get a few of those nice birds - i would need a He 111 omber for a scenario I intent to develop...

[Rick]

:)

It was NOT discovered by Rommel that the 88 is good against tanks AFAIK it was already used in france that it was used thi way (OK Rommel was there, but occupied to move forward, no time to think about defensive measures ;))

I am fully aware that as anit air gun it is usable primarily against high (or what was high altitude then) bombers. Just Ultimately I DO want to get a few of those nice birds - i would need a He 111 omber for a scenario I intent to develop...


The 88 was shipped to Spain during it's Civil War in the 1930's. While there it was intended to be used as an anit-air unit to defend rear area commands and cities controled by the Fascists. During that time, it was discovered that even with the thin lined anti-air shell, it could easily take out the thinly armored tanks of pre-WW2. To make it an effective anti-air unit, it had to have a high velocity and flat trajectory, as well as well trained men to work the sights. As it turned out, those are also excellent attributes to have for an effective anti-tank gun. Enemy units could be sighted and plotted at distances unheard of before. The high velocity shell packed one heck of a whallop!

With all that information, Geman observers sent reports back to Germany and an armor piercing shell was developed.

[Cruizin2000]

Man, there sure is alot of complainers here complaining about a historical based game and gamers wanting the historical flavor in it. Whatever.

I'm hoping that Set II will have some nice surprises in it. This game could sure use that as well as the boards needing a major morale booster.

As for house rules, nope. I play the game as written. Although I do use the rule changes that don't allow horses in JEEPs, Banzaiing AT guns, etc, and my SSPGs and Rangers are still 5 points.

C2K

[Qmark]

As for house rules, nope. I play the game as written. Although I do use the rule changes that don't allow horses in JEEPs, Banzaiing AT guns, etc, and my SSPGs and Rangers are still 5 points.So basically the handful of 'published' FAQs we do have, huh?

[Cruizin2000]

So basically the handful of 'published' FAQs we do have, huh?

Yep. Those were "published" back when Wizards took this game "seriously". Plus, they just made more sense. Wilbur didn't have a JEEP to take Mr. Ed for a ride did he? You'll never see soldiers charging while pushing an AT gun. Changing a unit from 5 to 7 points was to restrict the powergamers - same for the Hero limit. You have to keep an eye on those types of players.;)

C2K

[Qmark]

I just really really want to see a new FAQ, in an easily printable form, that doesn't require me digging through the Q&A forum.

[Cruizin2000]

I just really really want to see a new FAQ, in an easily printable form, that doesn't require me digging through the Q&A forum.

Set I/2.0's non-existent checklist would've been a great opportunity to include all of those updates/FAQs. The Extended Rules book would've been even better.

C2K

[Qmark]

Set I/2.0's non-existent checklist would've been a great opportunity to include all of those updates/FAQs. The Extended Rules book would've been even better.Seconded.
Very seconded.

[Latro]

Meh ... the moment you put a FAQ in "official" printing you're also creating more problems. What if a new errata or clarification is needed? Tough luck, it's not on the official printed version.

I would go with the easy-to-find-easy-to-print-online idea.


:cool:

[Qmark]

I would go with the easy-to-find-easy-to-print-online idea.Which also does not exist.

[Richter von Manthofen]

The "set checklist" was announced for the expanded rules - a nice opportunity to iron out the worst offenders before the advent of the 2.0 game

simply include all stuff that was necessary (demolition on Engineer, all the littel errata necessary by planes, recosts - for Ranger PG, but also for the 2.0 recosts - nice official and not to difficult to do) But the golden opportunity was missed :(

[Qmark]

Demolitions does exist, in the D-Day FAQ.

The Database will do, once the bugs and errors are worked out.

[defender390]

Was there another delay for NA? Amazon now lists release date as May 6, 2008.

[VonMephit]

I always had the opinion that the 88 should the same SA a the Nashorn. The optics would make deadly.

[Cruizin2000]

Meh ... the moment you put a FAQ in "official" printing you're also creating more problems. What if a new errata or clarification is needed? Tough luck, it's not on the official printed version.

I would go with the easy-to-find-easy-to-print-online idea.


:cool:

Not every one that play's this game goes on-line to view game related items. So, like Wizards, rather than making sure that every one is included in the fun, you're excluding them.:rolleyes:

Besides, if new errata or clarifications are required/needed, they too can be added to the check lists of any future sets or map pack/scenarion packs that are available to the public.

C2K

[Latro]

Not every one that play's this game goes on-line to view game related items. So, like Wizards, rather than making sure that every one is included in the fun, you're excluding them.:rolleyes:

Besides, if new errata or clarifications are required/needed, they too can be added to the check lists of any future sets or map pack/scenarion packs that are available to the public.

C2K

Hey, I'm only going on what works fine for basicly every other game with FAQ and Errata support ... but if you rather have a system that forces you to keep buying boosters/starters to keep up to date to the FAQ, that's fine by me.

(I smell a WotC undercover operation!)


:D

[Snippersly]

Despite all the negativity that surrounds everything Axis and Allies, I will invest in this set of minis. The new maps, the new combat zone maps an pieces will be very very cool and a lot of fun to play.

It will scale clash with my current set, but it is also, almost a stand alone series since alot of the other A&A minis never made it to the desert.

Thank you Avalon Hill (WoC)- please hurry up on production. My birthday is in mid March so try to get the set out before then.

Snippersly

[Cruizin2000]

Hey, I'm only going on what works fine for basicly every other game with FAQ and Errata support ... but if you rather have a system that forces you to keep buying boosters/starters to keep up to date to the FAQ, that's fine by me.

(I smell a WotC undercover operation!)


:D

Okay, how about BOTH? One on the booster check list and one on-line? This way EVERYONE is educated concerning ANY changes in the game and every one will be on the SAME page. :)

C2K

[fecktor]

Okay, how about BOTH? One on the booster check list and one on-line? This way EVERYONE is educated concerning ANY changes in the game and every one will be on the SAME page. :)

C2K

Putting all the FAQs and errata and Q&A and checklist and stuff like these would require a small booklet.. in every booster?? :D No way that'll happen, we both know it, right? :) So why beat this horse?

I mean, even if it was in every map pack, like you proposed, it wouldn't make sense... just the fact that I'm sure it's pretty expensive, printing all of these, and to add a step to put them in every packs and in the end, only one is enough per player, not one in everything we buy of AAM.

An online version like we have is enough. All they need to do then is print, somewhere on the box "Questions? visit www.axisandallies.com" and you know what? That's what they're already doing and it works fine! :)

[JMLawson]

I work at Barnes & Noble, and I was killing time on the computer the other day. What did I find you may ask? Just a listing for the NA boosters. We don't carry any other sets but we do have D&D minis. So all I could think was....discooouuuunnnt!

All I can think is "last nail in the coffin of my LGS for minis support."

[Qmark]

Why? Barnes & Noble isn't exactly known for bargain-basement pricing, and I doubt they'd let you play there.

FLGS's know they're getting raped by Wal-Mart and every-damn-online-store. However, the FLGS has the advantage of open tables, and the captive audience that goes with it.

[warspite]

Why? Barnes & Noble isn't exactly known for bargain-basement pricing, and I doubt they'd let you play there.

FLGS's know they're getting raped by Wal-Mart and every-damn-online-store. However, the FLGS has the advantage of open tables, and the captive audience that goes with it.


Wal-Marts near me don't know what a good game is, and certainly don't stock them. Maybe a couple of CCG's, but nothing to draw money from a LGS. They can't bully game companies barely staying in the black into cutting THEIR costs further, so that Wal-Mart can undercut their competitors - and I would never consider a LGS Wal-Mart's "competitor." Games also don't sell in the mass quantities that Wal-Mart would notice. My LGS' (generously referring to a second one as a LGS; it certainly isn't a FLGS :rolleyes: ) aren't worried about that. If they worry about anything, it would be internet commerce, and I don't mention it, since they afford us space to play, even while SWM, L5R, and even MtG are running tourneys.

[118th_MPCo_abn]

Why? Barnes & Noble isn't exactly known for bargain-basement pricing,

Isn't that the truth!!!
Ever see what they charge for CD's and movies?

Now if Target were to carry NA (as they do Halo minis), a discounted price could be a reality.

[JMLawson]

I don't presume to speak for my FLGS, though I know the owner fairly well. Well enough to know he is concerned about competition from Wal Mart and Target for minis and cards. And annoyed when the latest Magic release is seen on the shelves of Wal Mart before the official release date and his Friday Night Magic release tournament. And when Target gets Halo clix mini's well before he does.

As for the mini flap about the "Desert Fox" reference, this sure puts a different light on it:

http://www.wizards.com/avalonhill/images/AAM_wp4_800.jpg

[Lotus]

Isn't that the truth!!!
Ever see what they charge for CD's and movies?

Now if Target were to carry NA (as they do Halo minis), a discounted price could be a reality.

Ah, but they have a fine bargain section which I frequent for WWII books (and other stuff) whilst my wife peruses the expensive section. We both leave with armloads. Got good WWII vehicle and plane refs there.