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View Full Version : Tournament Diplomacy and Open Scores


Edi Birsan
08-05-2004, 11:55 PM
The issues of face to face tournament Diplomacy is extensive.
Tournament Diplomacy grew out of an excuse to get people together from the postal hobby. As a result the 'play the game not the tournament' was the ethos. In fact, the scoring system was totally subjective when there was a tournament in the begining without any known factors or points or anything like that. There was a consensus, end of story... and it worked.

As the hobby developed face to face Tournament play has become a whole another creature of its own.

The reality is that less than 50% of the players in the average tournament in North America have a tournament focus. Most cannot envision their postiion relative to others based on the tournament scores. Further, many do not even change their play style to reflect the incentives of the tournament scoring system.

Open Scores or Posted Scores are used extensively in Europe such as the recent World DipCon Championship in the UK. While this was a collection of the highest per centage of tournament focused players, there was probably more than half of the players that did not play to the tournament but instead played their individual game in isolation.

At times posted scores have the effect of a player walking into a game in Spring 01 and being told outright that there is no chance for them to discuss the game with their neighbors because he is higher in the scoring than them and they intend to kill him. I have seen this in play for example in Sweden where Manus Hand was globbered on the round to see who gets into the top board.

People who do not want things posted generally are not that they are afraid of the other tournament players, nearly every tournament player worth his supply centers can probably tell you who the top ten is in any tournament after each round just by casual observation, talk and info swap. However, what they remove from the friction of the tournament is the medium level players and below who would be excessively reactive to such a list while not able to make it themselves. Thus the posting of the results can be viewed as a sort of 'enabling' of lesser strength tournament play.
That anyway is the arguement...

I do not post results in the SF cons that I run because 1/2 the players are playing their first tournament and a good portion of them are playing their first game! As an experiment I did not even bring up the subject of the scoring system at one tournament and it was not until the begining of their third round that someone even asked how do you win the tournament. Furthermore over the half the players will only play one game out of the three rounds in the major cons in SF which is why we are moving to use the game conventions as a recruiting space while starting a stand alone Diplomacy Tournament this November 13-14.

Edi

GROGnads
08-09-2004, 02:11 AM
Good for you there Edi Birsan, it sounds like the best method was to just "play it out" and see how everyone performed. Maybe just YOU or another 'Official' would know the scores and present this later on to verify your 'decision'.;)

Adam Sigal
08-10-2004, 05:48 PM
Well I have to say Edi that I have had an exteremely different experience lately playing on the east coast.

While most of the east coast TDs do not post scores and results mid-tourny, word gets around when an individual solos, or gets a good two way. In fact, this last weekend at WBC, after a friday evening solo on the part of a very good player, a few other players commented that they were dissapointed in those people on the players board in the Sat round for allowing him into a draw. These types of expectations are widespread and discussed, I have had people tell me they didnt want to solo on friday evening because it would make them a target.

The truth is, that many F2F players I have had contact with care about thier tournament score, and now that this is in place, it has become part of the game. Whether this make a tournamnet more or less exciting for you individually, it is now an irremovable aspect one must consider. If i turn to my ally on Sunday and say, I need 14 centrers in a three way, and no more, he is likely to turn to me and say, I think we can make that happen.

Edi Birsan
08-11-2004, 08:57 PM
I've been on both sides of facing a Friday night solo in a three day tournament. While there is talk of jumping on the leader and talk of taking out the soloist it depends on the crowd and the player involved on how it works.

The San Francisco area is not typical in that we do not have tournament play functioning. We will have our first stand alone tournament in November and I expect to see a greater per centage of tournament players but I would still guess that over half of the players are not that type.

As for the experience at Baltimore this last few weeks, I was not there so I cannot comment directly, however, when I have been at Baltimore and even the DipCon that was held last year in Washington DC by the same people with a very dedicated group of national players, there still was a large per centage of non tournament players.

The question returns to the point of posting scores or not. I gave the anti posting arguement that it enables the poorer players to act out on the basis of the tournament when their own informal information gathering has not advanced to the point where they have this information to act on if they so choose it.

Staying with the anti posting arguement:
Do you want to spoon feed your tournament players or do you want them to develop with out social interaction between rounds>?

Do we want to create a 'Yellow Shirt' like in the Tour De France for the leader to wear so it is in everyone's face? Would you wear such a thing in a Diplomacy Tournament?

Adam Sigal
08-11-2004, 10:07 PM
It seemed to me that you were lamenting the situation that places the yellow jersey mentality of "have to take out this guy" whether a yellow jersey system exists or it does not. While I apologize if i misunderstood your initial post, I would have to say that in my experience, those people who play the diplomacy hobby and make an attempt to go to a con are sociable enough people that they can, and will, find such information on thier own. It doesnt seeem to me like a system is nessisary unless one wants to incourage new players to play the tournamnet.

However since dip players have a killer instinct, most will discover ways to play the tournament without being shown how.

It is my opinion that no such system is nessisary.