Session Reports

[Zephyr]

I'm creating this thread so anyone who wants to post recent session reports of Godstorm may do so. If you used any variants, go ahead and mention them so we get an idea how things might have changed :)

-Zephyr

[DocD]

What's a session's report?

[Zephyr]

Basically it's where you discuss what happened in a particular game (of Godstorm, in this case) you played. The writer concentrates on whatever aspects he or she likes, mechanics, player interaction, whatever, and posts it here for the benefit of everyone else.

[DocD]

Oh, that's what I thought.

My last game the Babylonians controlled Africa and Atlantis. The Celts controlled Asia and was pleading with the Greeks, who controlled Europa for an Alliance to attack Babylon. The Greeks kept putting them off saying they didn't want a war with Babylon just yet. In the 4th Epoch, the Celts decided to attack the Greeks instead of Babylon just out of spite. Of course the Babylonians were all to happy to see to potential allies go at it and ended up invading both of them and conquering most of Europe and Asia for the win.
As the old saying goes.."we can live together as friends or die together as enemies." I guess that's what the Celts were saying as they sent there troops into Europa... cool huh.

[Zephyr]

What happened in the underworld during all of this, or do you remember?

[Zak Arntson]

Here's a short recap of the last game:

Four players, with random distribution. This led to the Celts having all four plague lands(!), the Babylonians with a good concentration in both Africa and the Asia Minor, the Greeks having most of Europa, and the Norse with Atlantis.

The majority of the game was spent with the Babylonians conquering and holding Asia Minor and Africa, and nearly taking Hyrkania. The Norse and Celts fought back and forth over control of Germania. This left Europa free to the Greeks.

At the endgame, with a devastating blow to the Babylonians (the Greeks played the "discard hand," causing a loss of seven cards!), the Greeks pushed just enough into Hyrkania, Asia Minor, Africa and Germania so that nobody else received a continent bonus (save the Norse with Atlantis).

The final score was something like 40+ for the Greeks, 12-15 for the Norse, and 5-6 for the Bablyonians. The Celtic player had to leave early, so their army was left neutral.

What I learned from the game was to be more aggressive, and try to never let a turn go by where someone else owns a continent. Especially Europa!

[holywolfman]

OUCH- :eek: ....I bet that hurts! (lol)

[Zephyr]

I don't think I ever played a game of Classic Risk where someone could hold Asia (the Europa equivalent) for very long until, you know, like 20 turns or so had passed and someone was chasing the other remaining player around the board :)

Naturally Godstorm makes things a bit weirder than Classic Risk.

Zak, how was the relic distribution between the players, and did it affect things much?

-Z

[DocD]

What happened in the underworld during all of this, or do you remember?
I remember the Norsemen controlling half the underworld. But they only ended up with two spaces in the real world so they came in last.

[Zak Arntson]

OUCH- :eek: ....I bet that hurts! (lol)

You bet it does. My wife was playing the Greeks, and she's a very crafty player. She's tends to sit back and not get anyone angry, even while she's taking over a continent. So I get complacent and figure, "Heck, she's letting me take Africa and Asia Minor, she can have Europa while I sneak into Hyrkania." Then, she takes the last turn and uses her armies to remove my ownership of Hyrkania, Asia Minor AND Africa, all while keeping Europa.

So now I have a new rule for myself: Don't let anyone own a continent, no matter how nice they seem. Especially if it's my wife!

Lastly, I think we'll stop doing the random distribution, or at least make sure nobody gets stuck with a load of plague lands. It hardly seems fair.

[Zephyr]

Was it by a large margin that the Norse came in last, DocD? I'm curious, for my tweaking purposes, how many territories do you guess they held in the underworld? I'm going to assume they were in the majority down there.

I'd ask you, and anyone else who cared, about my idea for this variant, to help out the underdog in the overworld, so to speak: That underworld territories count like surface territories, one point a piece at final tally. Does that dramatically affect things at all in the final count?

It seems to me the person who winds up with the most troops in the underworld will be the person who is having the least luck in the overworld (unless a savvy player is using Death to full advantage).

This idea probably already came up during development and was rejected for whatever reason, but I'm curious to see what might happen if it was considered again.

Thanks for answering my questions :)
-Z

[Zak Arntson]

Zak, how was the relic distribution between the players, and did it affect things much?

We didn't have many relics in play. Since most relics take effect at the beginning of a turn, three of us had the "buy magic early, ignore it later on" attitude, and the other one concentrated on War cards.

So, in our game, relics didn't affect much play at all. The Tree of Life did encourage the Greeks to wreak havoc in Asia Minor, but other than that, there's wasn't much impact.

The greatest impact were the Death cards. Twice somebody lost their hand (I lost seven cards, including two great Sky cards I was about to use to defend).

[Zephyr]

Some people say that the reason the Death god is weak in the field (though that is debatable too) is because it makes up for that with its cards.

-Z

[DocD]

Was it by a large margin that the Norse came in last, DocD? I'm curious, for my tweaking purposes, how many territories do you guess they held in the underworld? I'm going to assume they were in the majority down there.

I'd ask you, and anyone else who cared, about my idea for this variant, to help out the underdog in the overworld, so to speak: That underworld territories count like surface territories, one point a piece at final tally. Does that dramatically affect things at all in the final count?

It seems to me the person who winds up with the most troops in the underworld will be the person who is having the least luck in the overworld (unless a savvy player is using Death to full advantage).

This idea probably already came up during development and was rejected for whatever reason, but I'm curious to see what might happen if it was considered again.

Thanks for answering my questions :)
-Z
Yeah Z, it was a large margin they lost by.
I don't remember a specific number of territories they held, but I know it was half the underworld total spaces. I see your idea for a variant there but I agree with the developers on not having underworld spaces count (except for crypts and such) in the final total.
The underworld is not a place one would want his soldiers to go and by increasing the points down there, the underworld ceases to be just that. It becomes another 'continent' to fight over. I don't think that is in line with the flavor of the game and its overall goal. The underworld should be an unfortunate place for souls, but if the god of Luck permits, at least one gets something out of it.

[Zephyr]

Good point. Still, I'm itching to expand the underworld in some way. I have some ideas...

I know that's not a popular line of thought, given that some think it bogs the game down. Perhaps with extra, interesting goals, they won't be able to as easily separate the underworld from the main game as they are now.

Gah, who knows.

-Z

[Zak Arntson]

I've only played two games, but so far my biggest complaint with the Underworld is its small size. We often put a mountain of armies to the side and represent them with an unused God figure.

If you want to give the Underworld power without point value, you could try the following:
Raise Armies: You can raise 1d6 armies from a crypt to a temple. The card which lets you do so is upped to 2d6.
Altar: For every altar you control, you not only get an extra die in a godswar, you get an extra die when defending a territory with a temple in it.

This should give those in the Underworld an edge?l

[Zephyr]

Thanks, Zak

Maybe the temple resurrection could be a higher constant instead of a variable. I dislike the range of d6 when it comes to armies coming back, although people are welcome to disagree, of course.

I think the temple idea is interesting. It makes the defense-dynamic shift dramatically. I wonder if there's a way to calculate the odds changes... Well, I'm sure there IS a way, but... *sighs*

That is the most common complaint of the Underworld that I've heard, the size of the territories being inadequate to hold one's troops.

If only a few people were playing, I might use different army colors for multiple troops, like picking a differently colored elephant to represent ten armies for one group, and a differently colored army for another player, and so on. Obviously this doesn't necessarily work for 4 or 5 player games.

-Z

[DocD]

The only variant I heard players talk about is increasing the number of soldiers that come up from the crypts. I'm not sure which I like, a specific number or a random number from the dice roll. I'm not even sure it really matters. I may try increasing the number of soldiers released by the crypts in my next game and see if it really makes a difference.
As far as the altars, I think Zak has something good there. I have found that the god wars don't seem to happen alot and having control of an altar during one happens even less. By helping to increase one's overworld defensive capability could be a plus.
But again, how many temples does one usually have to defend. I think it is safe to say that if a player's temple is under attack, the altar extra dice might be too little, too late.

[Zephyr]

If anyone has any notable two player games, I'm interested in hearing about them. I saw someone on the Strategies board actually played mostly two player.

I'm interested in part due to the fact that my games are probably all going to be two player games, and I wanted to know how others' went :)

-Z

[AllDougOut]

If anyone has any notable two player games, I'm interested in hearing about them. I saw someone on the Strategies board actually played mostly two player.

I'm interested in part due to the fact that my games are probably all going to be two player games, and I wanted to know how others' went :)

-Z

I mostly play only two player games and i love 'em. I have played a few 4 and 5 player games as well and it felt like there wasn't enough territories to go around. It was way too hard to get any continents so most people only had 4 or 5 armies raised every turn and there for where also scratching to get enough faith to do anything worth while. Unlike 2210 i think this game actually works better with less players. With two people there is hardly ever a runaway leader so its exciting and there is hope right to the end.

as far as the under world variant goes how about this? (not tested) You can raise as many armies from each crypt equal to the amount of crypts you own. E.g. If you only have one crypt you can only raise one army from that crypt. if you have two crypts you can raise two armies from each of the crypts (total of 4) 3 crypts, 3 armies from each (total of nine) and so on and so forth. that would definitely make it more worth while to not only to secure one crypt but try to get them all. Ill try it next time and tell you all how it went.

[holywolfman]

Sounds interesting!- :p

[DocD]

Agreed. That makes the underworld worth alittle more but doesn't put it into continent status

[series]

Something good about the underworld is at least the loser of the real world isn't completely embarassed. "I lost the game but at least I have the entire underworld", instead of having to say "I have nothing and I hate you cuz u beat me so badly".

[VID-IOT]

Due to a lucky card draw in a 4 player game, I (The Egyptians) started with the entire continent of Atlantis. The babalonyians seemed poised for taking Germania, and the greeks were preparing for an Africa take over. And apparently the celts were planning for Hyrkania and Asia Minor before the game was through. The only uncontested land mass at the time seemed to be Europa. After putting enough guys in Atlantis to hold it for a turn, I started putting my remaining forces in Europa. I needed at least one country in the center of the map, so I could negotiate peace between Atlantis and it's Africa and Germania borders. The other issue was keeping Atlantis. On my first turn I invested in a death god and started drawing both death and war cards. I also took a crypt early in the underworld for the extra death card. By the second turn I had accumlated exactly what I needed. "Sea is your tomb" and "Crops Wither". After playing everything I could and leaving at least two faith left, I crops withered myself and removed "Sea is your Tomb" from the possibility of being stolen from me.
Sadly my attempt at taking Europa were stopped by the Greeks as they invaded north from Africa. Having no other means of leaving Atlantis (As the trojan horse was already played by someone else) without breaking a treaty with my borders, i decided to remain there for the rest of the game, doing my best to cause mayhem and carnage from safety using war and death cards.
Yes I could have made an invastion into Germania very easily, however since personal grudges are common at my table it would be unlikely that I would be trusted with a cease fire by anyone in the game again. I'll just choose my words more carefully next time.

[Zephyr]

That's funny, because my instinct would have been to betray my alliance, or more likely give a verbal warning that I was boxed in and needed some breathing room lest they, through following the letter of the agreement, screw me out of any contention for a win.

In other words, you're right, alliances are dangerous things.

What was the final outcome for the various cultures?

-Z

[Zephyr]

I got a hold of the demo copy of the game, the truncated teaser version that Wizards sends to retailers in order to cull interest in the heavier game.

It comes with 18 little soldiers of two colors, a war god for one side and a magic god(dess for you gender specific types) for the other. It also had 6 dice, glossy paper boards (Atlantis and half the Underworld), and an instruction sheet.

Session report:

The Celts had an early lead, but extended themselves too far into Norse territory. The Norse attacked during their turn, wiped out the magic god in a godswar, then proceeded to clean up the board, leaving all the dead in the underworld by the end of the first Norse turn.

I played it against myself, so there were no hard feelings.

Variant ideas:

I was thinking of bringing in all my little plastic animals from my Parcheesi board and having them fight a Norse-Celt coalition (actually, I could use the elephants to represent five armies!).

Jokes aside, I'm kinda glad I got this thing. It's interesting to see what kind of promotional material W/AH were willing to produce to help promote the game.

We all like a bunch of fussy miniatures with our games, but they ain't cheap to produce :)

-Z

[StarvingWriter82]

I mostly play only two player games and i love 'em. I have played a few 4 and 5 player games as well and it felt like there wasn't enough territories to go around. It was way too hard to get any continents so most people only had 4 or 5 armies raised every turn and there for where also scratching to get enough faith to do anything worth while. Unlike 2210 i think this game actually works better with less players. With two people there is hardly ever a runaway leader so its exciting and there is hope right to the end.

as far as the under world variant goes how about this? (not tested) You can raise as many armies from each crypt equal to the amount of crypts you own. E.g. If you only have one crypt you can only raise one army from that crypt. if you have two crypts you can raise two armies from each of the crypts (total of 4) 3 crypts, 3 armies from each (total of nine) and so on and so forth. that would definitely make it more worth while to not only to secure one crypt but try to get them all. Ill try it next time and tell you all how it went.

Actually, the two player games I've played have all seemed to generate a runaway leader fairly quickly, and the game rarely even goes to the last epoch. Unlike 4-5 player games, 2 player games are pure math - the guy who draws and plays more cards will win, every time. Therefore, games usually come down to manuvering back and forth until one player manages to hold a continent, at which point they buy and play a ridiculous amount of cards and win. Not to say there is no skill here - in fact, it seems to have more actual skill and less manipulation/bluffing/scare tactics, like larger games. This actually makes the game feel more like M:tG or chess imho, than a "risk" feel. (That's ok with me, I like M:tG and chess.)

Things of note:

1) Relics are more powerful, since they will not automatically be destroyed, which always happens in the five player game. This time, you will control roughly 50% of the war cards, so you're less likely to lose both your initial relic buys, and it will take longer to find those cards regardless, allowing for more time to the relics to be useful.

2) The death god is extremely important in all of the games of two player I have had. Typically my opponent will underestimate the death god, and I'll immediately buy one and go stomping. This leaves me with lots of troops in the underworld, and them with nothing there. Since you are recieving troops when they attack you, and when you attack them, but they don't ever get troops when they defend (as there are no other players to get involved with), if you control a death god - and use him often in battles - while your opponet does not, you will win based purely on underworld dominance... when you are raising multiple armies from multiple crypts, you get a huge troop push, and it's easy to snag both altars, making the intuitive countermeasure (summoning a sky god to hunt down or scare off the death god) useless as well.

Edit: Personally I have found that four is a good number of players for this game. It leaves everyone cramped and forces calculated attack and strong defense to hold multiple temples and/or a continent (whereas I dislike continent bonuses in two player risk - it's fairly simple to get a continent bonus by taking a fringe continent like asia minor or atlantis and then moving the battle forward to germania or africa). The board (appropriately, I think) does not accomodate five players - the first few epochs are spent trying to make sure you are not the player pushed out. A lot of players point to risk 2210 as a better example because "everyone has space". Personally, I dislike this feature. Risk is not about being comfortable, or about letting everyone stake out their ground and sit. Risk is about knowing there are iminent and real threats, and assessing and dealing with them.

[Bismarck]

You have a point StarvingWriter, it sometimes feels like there is too much room for everyone to be comfortable in Risk 2210. This is probably especially true in 4-player games, 5-player games might be different. I was actually thinking about experimenting with taking the moon out of play, that way people are forced to fight over the continents on Earth and it might provide more confrontational games. I guess this is not a problem in Godstorm.

[AllDougOut]

This runaway leader problem seems to rely on one crucial element. that your opponent does nothing to fight back. You said that your opponent underestimates the death gods power. this does not appear to be a problem imminent with two player games but more in your opponent. You also say that its over as soon as someone holds a continent, well if i had anything to do with it that would simply never happen. :)

My experience of this game is probably heaps different than most on these boards. i live down under in oz and unfortunately bored games are considered extremely dorky. (you should see the looks i get when i tell people that i like playing bored games) anyway as a result i normally only play with my sister and/or brother (who also have an unnatural obsession with games :)) so i think we tend to get stuck in the rut of knowing what the other will do. But it cant hurt to have many differing opinions can it? Is there anyone else out there that thinks the games they play seem to be strangely different from those posted on these boards?

[StarvingWriter82]

Don't worry... we're all considered dorks for it here in the states, too. If you want to play a party game like Cranium, Corporate Shuffle, or Apples to Apples, fine. But if you bust out the Magic: The Gathering, Risk, Chess, or any "intellectual" game.... dork!

That said we have a pretty good supply of dorks around here if you know where to look, so I'm never in want of someone to play with (I've actually considered purchasing a second copy for our play group so we can run side by side games on our gaming night, as we've quickly expanded beyond five people who want to play).

That said, Friday night is gaming night, and I'll try to grab pen and paper to keep notes for a detailed session report if anyone is interested. It probably won't be exactly typical of my play group as one of the guys is new, both to our group, GodStorm, and strategy games in general... but the other four of us are "regulars", and we all have different play styles (the "i'll win by the math" player, the "leave me alone and I'll leave you alone" player, the "No one else can get ahead of me or I'll smash them, and I'll spend the whole game complaining about how I'm going to lose, even though I'm winning" player, and of course, the "I'm playing to spite you" player) so it should be an amusing read if nothing else.

[StarvingWriter82]

Well, Unfortunately it's the morning after and I don't have session reports nearly in the detail I wanted to have them in. There was a bit of miscommunication and one of the playgroud didn't show up until 1 a.m., and conincidentially, he was the one that had the game with him. This made two of our players have to leave rather than playing, since it was so late.

So, in the end there were three of us, and it was the three of us who typically play together at games like this.

Games consisted of Isaac -me, the babylonians, Mark, the celts, and Matt, The egyptians.

Game 1, I see that the celts have left their war god essentially undefended (about 9 armies when I had 15+ and my war god below them) so of course I made the mistake of performing the tactically best move. I bought a magic goddess (I wanted to reroll the 1's) and bought to relics (figured I might as well use her as long as I got her) and got nothing relevant. With my war/magic combo I slaughtered their war god and the smaller of armies. (This all happened in the upper half of Europa).

Then the Egyptians go, take Asia Minor, and sit.

The Celts pile all their guys on top of Germania, and rather than buy a god and some relevant cards (which in my opinion would have been a strong move) he buys a sky god and a death god, swings around with his larger army, and kills all my gods and half my armies. Fine. However, then, instead of continuing on to break up the Egyptian continent bonus, he fortifies all his stuff back to germania, and I know we've lost - my only remaining significant army is down near atlantis, and the celts intentionally put themselves in a position where they could not get to Asia Minor.

By Epoch 3, the Egyptians have half to world.

Lesson learned: Either 1) Don't disrupt any players power base too much in a three player game, or 2) Don't play with players that are o.k. with making tactical decisions that will cost the game as long as they take you down with them. :rolleyes:

Game 2 was a bit more balanced. The Egyptians again start in Asia Minor, while I am again in Atlantis. The Celts are over in Germania, however, there are many relevant plague spaces this time: One in the northernmost continent of Asia Minor and the southern connecting corner of the continent above Asia Minor (why can't I remember the name?), meaning it's impossible to hold either one, since you can't defend the boarder, and each turn an opponent can send in just a few armies to disrupt the bonus. There is also one in Germania right at the north entrance to Atlantis, meaning a pair of armies is all it takes to defend that entrance.

The game stays pretty even - eventually I pull out ahead by placing a temple with a war card and playing The Temple Falls bringing me up to three temples. Atlantis refuses to yield to me as the celts placed six or so armies there in defense of me getting the bonus, but I'm being patient about it. Finally, both other players start acting out, with the celts taking one of my temples and fortifying 20ish guys and all his gods somewhere else for a big attack. Epoch 3, I use The Siren Calls to wipe all that out, and Storms Rage to weaken the temple to the point I take it back, effectively knocking the the Celts out of the game.

The Egyptians go last, taking Asia Minor as well as Europa. He then proceeds to bid for first (epoch 4) and immediately collects on both continents. He shores up his defenses a little but leaves most of his armies in Germania for the expected final turn. Then the celts go, taking the hit on armies and gods, and tries to go down into Europa, at which point the Egyptians play This Ground is Sacred. He attacks into one of my irrelevant territories to at least get off the plague space. I go last for the turn, collecting on Atlantis (finally) and e putting a plague marker down in the space with all the Egyptian Gods and backup troops. I attack through Africa into Europa, and down into the Asia Minor plague space, ending the epoch.

The Egyptians bid their remaining faith to go last.
The Babylonians bid their remaining faith for second choice - going first (the celts only option at this point is to attack into my temples, so there's no advantage to going after him, and last is already taken).
The Celts are sleeping on my floor as its 6 a.m. and he has to work in four hours.

I use the faith allotment to purchase a sky god and three sky cards, and I'm reasonably happy with my pull - 1000 workers amass, enemies convert, and the sky card that forces an attacking god back to a temple. I immediately put all my armies on the southern tip of Europa, tromp through there into Asia Minor, and finally swing back into Africa and take all of it. The logic here is that now when the Egyptians go, he won't have the resources to take Europa, Asia Minor, and disrupt me.

The Celts go, taking two of my temples with the tattered shreds of his armies - he has 7, and my temples have four and two, respectively, of course he easily takes both. Then he wipes both me and the Egyptians out of the underworld, but since The Egyptians will actually get another turn in the underworld and I won't, it's more painful for me.

The Egyptians sigh and look at the board and sigh. The empire is shattered and the Babylonians have half the world. He attacks with his few armies off the germania plague space, and wins every roll untiil he makes it to my temple where the last army dies. He then takes his allotment for the turn and comes through Asia Minor (after I banish his newly summoned war god back to its temple) missing the continent bonus, in favor of going into Europa and collecting there. After a bunch of spectacular rolls he gets to the last territory with five armies, with one meek little guy sitting there in defense. I play enemies convert as well as 1000 workers amass, making it three on three, where I win ties and reroll my ones.

We roll and each lose one. Now, I still win ties, still reroll 1's, but now we're rolling the same amount of dice.

One apiece again.

Now it's down to the final die roll - he wins it. He has Europa.

We count up the board and with my Atlantis/Africa bonus I have one more point on the main board than him, but he takes his underworld move, and smashes through 12 more defenders with 15 armies and gets his two points for the win.

*shrug* Pretty much all of us at the table agreed I should have won that game, but with the amazing rolls the entire last turn there was nothing I could do. That, and the Celts once again decided to take my points (six total, counting two territories, two temples, and two underworld spaces) as opposed to any of my opponents whatsoever. Even then, the celts shouldn't have had enough armies to take two of my temples, and did.

Lesson learned: Don't play if God hates you.

[Doctor Strategy]

Lesson learned: Don't play if God hates you.

Starving,

God doesn't hate anyone. He loves eveyone equally. Just ask the holywolfman. God loves all his children. It seems to me you just ran into a bit of bad luck and two opponents who effectively double teamed you. You did well IMHO.

[StarvingWriter82]

Don't worry, I was being sarcastic. :p

[holywolfman]

Starving,

God doesn't hate anyone. He loves eveyone equally. Just ask the holywolfman. God loves all his children. It seems to me you just ran into a bit of bad luck and two opponents who effectively double teamed you. You did well IMHO.

I second that!.....:D

[holywolfman]

The important factor is:

HAVE FUN!!! - ;)

[Doctor Strategy]

The important factor is:

HAVE FUN!!! - ;)

Amen holywolfman.

People shouldn't act like it's the end of the world because they lost. The important thing is that they learn from their mistakes. I used to hate losing too but now that I am older and wiser it doesn't matter. As long as you do your best there is nothing to be unhappy about.

[StarvingWriter82]

A couple more session reports (yay labor day weekend!):

We played two games, both also consisting of Egyptians, Celts, and Babylonians.

The first game, there is a plague space blocking the top of the atlantis-germania entrance on the germania side, and the Babylonians start with most of atlantis. The Egyptians start with most of Asia Minor, and the Celts are in the top of Germania. There's not much of note here, except that the Egyptians cast Siren's Call and put all the Atlantis defneders on a plague space and took Atlantis, but then on the Babylonian turn, I cast Trojan Horse is Revealed, taking the Asia Minor Temple, then Eagles take Wing, saving my guys from the plague, then the dead walk, raising six more to the Asia Minor temple. I smashed into the Egyptian player, wiping out all of his gods and his largest army, taking Asia Minor. The Celts took the moment of opportunity and kept me busy while the Egyptians recovered. By the end, I was out of contention for victory, and I had enough stregth to turn it into a draw between the other two, but a string of lucky die rolls allowed the Egyptians to win by one point... again. *shrug*. Given that I was out of contention for the win anyway, and the Celts made a savage play error (in my opinion - I had Asia Minor and nothing else, the egyptians had africa and Atlantis, and the Celts had easy ways into all three continents... and he went after me instead of the clearly winning Egyptians) so I guess the Egyptians deserved the win anyway.

The second game was much more interesting. The Egyptians are dealt every territory card in Atlantis, and there are plague spaces on both the African entrance and the lower Germanian Entrance. I have 2/3 of Europa (lol) and not much else, and the Celts are pretty spread out, taking the remaining parts of Europa, and then letting us divide up evenly in Africa, Asia Minor, and Germania.

We almost just decided to re-deal, but enough happens in the course of a game we decided to give it a try. The Celts and myself don't start an arms race against the Babylonians, instead piling up in Europa and Germania while the Egyptians put most of their stuff in Africa.

The Egyptians bid high to go first, knowing he'll be compensated by the immediate Atlantian bonus. He buys a death god and picks up some death cards, laughing as he gets The Waters Boil. He can't play it this turn, but he knows the two of us can't come into Atlantis on turn 1. He sweeps through Africa and Asia Minor, taking both continents easily as they are undefended. He assumed - rightly so - that by keeping both of us busy disrupting those continents, we'd leave Atlantis alone. The Celts use a few armies to disrupt the Asia Minor bonus. I summon my magic goddess, knowing I won't get anything flashy from a death god or sky god at this point, and tear two relics off the top. I'm rewarded for that: The Book of the Dead (easily one of the strongest relics in the deck IMHO) and The Great Pyramids (I didn't plan on summoning a sky god, but free cards? I can improvise. I disrupt Africa and take the rest of Europa, except the two plague spaces.

We bid for turn order in Epoch 2, with the Celts first, then the egyptians, then me again.

The Celts take Asia Minor as well as playing The Land is Purged, freeing up the southern Germania entrance to Atlantis (which he can't use, but I convieniently can... the Celtic player is shrewed like that... I know he's playing me off the other guy, but my options are still the same). However, he leaves five armies on his Asia Minor boarder spaces, allowing the Egyptian player to collect on Africa, because he fears I'll come in from Europa (I have three armies and a temple on the Europa-Asia Minor boarder. I consider this a big play mistake - even if I did disrupt his Asia Minor bonus, I would rather have my 3 bonus disrupted that way than have it disrupted because I allowed the other guy standing next to me to get a 5 bonus.

I'm proven right, as the egyptians collect on atlantis and Egypt, blasting through one of the boards in Asia Minor. He foolishly lost a newly summoned magic goddess (he bought a relic, and with a groan, got Pandora's Box. Every time anyone else gets it, it works to their advantage, but it always seems to burn him when he gets it) in the attempt by attacking too thin and letting her die. He then played The Waters Boil, sealing off the top half of the Atlantian border, and came down with his armies, blocking the new opening and putting himself in roughly the same position as before. I pick up a sky God and Death God as I am collecting 9 faith thanks to the book of the dead, and a roll of triples on my last turn gave me Arawns Couldron of Life (free death card). I pick up my two free cards, disrupt Africa, and end my turn. We look down in horror at the epoch marker, realizing it's easily been the longest first two epochs of this game ever.

Epoch 3 rolls around, with turn order being: Celts, Egyptians, Me.

The Celts take back Asia Minor and remember to take a chunk out of Africa this time. He also plays A Shrine is Plundered and takes The Great Pyramids. (In my opinion, this is another play error, as even though he has a sky god, the book of the dead is a much more potent card.) Then he takes a long look at the board and ends his turn.

Then the Egyptians go, and I have a feeling I'm in for it. However, he only piles a few more armies on the giant stand off (putting him 5 ahead of me) and pokes into Asia Minor. Then he attacks into me. Both of us are rolling 5 dice, with an altar and a sky god, but he wins ties and I reroll my 1s. First things first, however, and I play Enemies Convert (yay free sky card!) meaning he's only up by 1 in the God's War, instead of the expected 5.

His Sky God barely loses out to mine, and the rest of his gods fall easily before my five-dice-chuckin, 1's-re-rollin sky god. The first round of normal attacks I roll boxcars and he opts to quit, going back on the defensive.

I again collect 3 armies and 9 faith thanks to the book, pick up a few free cards, and buy 3 more air cards. I play storms rage on Rus to disrupt a celtic contient bonus, since it has a temple he won't collect on that either. However, he has two armies on it and I only roll a 1, so the card was wasted. I continue on by plowing into the defensive knot of guys in Germania, and my war/magic combo makes pretty short work of them. This lets me go down into atlantis and disrupt the continent bonus, fortifying my five or so remaining troops and all my gods back to my temple space in Corsica. (The only card capable of destroying all your gods outright is The Gods Forsake Us, which can't be played on temple spaces.) I have Eagles Take Wing, though, so I'm not worried, I'm just trying to make sure a marauding group of ten armies doesn't kill all my gods in one fell swoop.

The Egyptians begin their turn by ripping The Sea is Your Tomb off the top with Pandora's Box, laughing hysterically as he does so, looking down with the "I had it all and now I have nothing" look. He attacks into Asia Minor pointlessly and sits down and catch the end of Win A Date With Tad Hamilton with his girlfriend.

Epoch Four starts, the order being The Egyptians, me, then the celts. It's important for me to go before the celts as I'm in better shape but not by much, so I bid for it, but the egyptians got second choice, and I know he wants to go first so he can rip another card off the box.

He does and gets Blood Coats the Land, rolling a 3 (Africa) and wiping himself down to two territories, hurting the celts for 1 in the process. We have a good laugh and make lots of noise through the end of WADWTH, drawing dirty looks from the girls as they rewind so they can hear the "You have five smiles" speech again.

I go second, collecting 4 armies and 10 faith, picking up three sky cards and playing Crops Wither on the Celts, followed by The Gods Forsake Us wiping out his remaining gods and a decent sized army, then Eagles Take Wing to put me next to Asia Minor. I attack through to the upper left corner disrupting all his continent bonuses, and let him stare at my grip of 5 air cards as he takes his turn. He still has 7 armies poised to go into Europa (which is mostly mine) and he tries to make good use of it, but then he's the recipient of The Fog Lifts, Swords Become Plowshares, Lava Erupts, Men Become Warriors (I think, the one that gives you 3 armies in a defending territory) and 1000 Workers Amass, grinding his remaining armies to dirt, blasting away the tiny bit of resistence around Rus, and leaving me with two good sized armies ready to attack all his relevant territory.

We called the game then, as even the combined strength of the other two players wouldn't stop me in Epoch 5.

I do a quick mental recap of the game, stunned that I won as I spent half the game in a position far inferior to the other two.

[StarvingWriter82]

Things to Note:

Always take the extra faith with The Book of the Dead. The two extra cards will help you much more than the two armies, even if you only are getting a few, and make it difficult for opponents to deal with you.

In a three player game, the magic goddess is more useful, as war cards stick around until epoch 4 or so, meaning there's more time to find the destroy/steal cards, ande more time until your relics are destroyed/stolen.

Crops Wither is a dangerous card. Luckily my death card draws let me get both of these, but when you are winning, there are times you can have 7-10 cards in your hand.

The magic and the sky god also work well together, especially if you cand secure an underworld altar, as every gods war will almost surely yield a sky card (one per turn obviously) and there's a pretty good chance of a free relic as well. However, Maybe I just say this because there were a lot of gods wars in my last game, more than normal.

and finally, upon seeing the huge turnaroudn that happened to the egyptians:

Winners never prosper. :)

Frighteningly, this was double posted as I exceeded the 10000 character limit in the original post. I'm going outside to enjoy my labor day.

[Bismarck]

Great report. Funny how you don't mention any Underworld action at all, seems that part of the game is really secondary.

[StarvingWriter82]

Actually, it was in the position of "could have been important, but wasn't" for most of the game. I controlled an altar and so did the Egyptians, and if either one of us didn't control the altar, the game could have gone very, very differently. Sometimes it's a big deal, sometimes its not (like I said, if the Celts or the Egyptians had thought to attack my altar, I would have lost the crucial god's war, but since the Underworld is secondary, they never thought to bother. :cool: )


Also, it's probably noteworthy that two of the last three games I played were decided by one point. That's one point that could have been made up in the underworld. (I've also experienced one draw for first place.)

Typically I don't mention the Underworld much because nothing out of the ordinary seems to happen in the Underworld unless someone controls multiple crypts or altars.

[VID-IOT]

Had a pretty decent game for once (and by that I mean I actually won).
It was a four player game, and I had chosen the greeks as my army. When random placement was finished and armies were placed, it seemed that the following armies were going after the following targets.

Greeks: Asia Minor
Celts: Germania
Norse: Africa
Babylonians: Hyrkania and Atlantis

Epoch 1: Most of us are used to not bidding first turn and prefering to go by the luck of the dice. In this case I ended up going first. On my turn I asked the Norse commander if he would be willing to have a truce at the Africa/Asia borders. He agreed and I was able to focus on my other few borders.
I decided to put this game into perspective. I knew for a fact that the Celts were the favored winner of the game. The commander never seemed to loose a game in my history of playing him. He had a charisma that made it easy to ally with him. He knew that if he could control Germania and at least one other continent he could secure a win for himself on the final turn. Plus there was also that fact that he is a notorious sore loser and most of the other players just hate setting him off. Myself included.
I started with 2 war cards and my death god. One of the cards was "The temple falls" and I knew exactly how to use it. If the Celts were going to be gaining five extra faith and armies a turn from having Germania, I would help even out the numbers a bit by jacking his temple and placing it on one of his single army countries within the Asia Minor border. Taking it was simple enough. At that point it was clear that the Celts were going to do what they could to get revenge, but luckily they were on the opposite sides of the board. He would need cards to do any damage.
After I took Asia Minor, I fortified my West and North borders. I then took my war card for taking three countries as well as grabbed up a crypt in the underworld for a free death card. The Trojan Horse. What luck.

Epoch 2: By the next epoch everyone suddenly started using surprise tactics. First turn The celts had decided to oust the Babylonians' hold on Atlantis and wipe them from the west side of the map entirely. Now that the celts had two continents, the future of the game seemed bleak. The celts however began to stock on the northern and europeon borders, after asking for a truce with the Norse at their southern border. But it was what the norse commander told him when sealing the truce that made me realize what was going to happen. "I shall not attack you at that border". Oddly enough the Celts commander noticed nothing odd about it and finished his turn.

On my turn following that, I decided to put an end to the Celt's hold on Germania, and trojan horsed Hibernia. Glancing at the number of faith in the Celts' reserve I figured I could go first (or at least before him) next turn, and put enough guys there to make a decent push into Atlantis. Plus on that turn I had just pulled "Eagles Take Wing".
But then my plans were about to change. The Norse, going by their word did not attack Germania at the Africa/Germania border. They first went to atlantis and THEN went to germania. Somehow, he had manage to pretty much remove the celts from most of Germania, including his force in the north corner. It was amazing. Truly.

Third Epoch: Deciding what the hell, I "eagles take wing"ed a considerable force to Hibernia, then instead of going straight into Atlantis, I decided to take a side route through gaul and take Atlantis from the southern border. My reason for this? Finish off the Celts. It came to my attention the turn before, that the Celts had control of the Sink Atlantis Card. Last thing I needed was him saving up his faith and sinking atlantis as his final blow. I was going to need it to win the game.

Fourth Epoch: My first major play of the turn, was using the Fire Rains Down card upon the Norse temple. The commander did me a favor helping me remove the Celts from the game, but now he was tied with me for points and needed to be dropped a step in the hopes it would slow him down. I also continued to fortify around my germania countries to ensure they were not taken from me.
On the norse turn they mearly retook the empty African countries and fortified their positions for a large take over.
The Babylonian's in the mean time, had been trying miserably to take Europa as a second country. Both myself and the Norse were always taking back at least one country each turn to keep him from accomplishing this feat.

Fifth Epoch: I decided to bid all I had to ensure last turn on the fifth Epoch. As the others started playing their turns I began to think about setting my plan in motion. The two remaining enemies were spending most of the game hording sky cards. Which meant that my final push would likely be difficult unless I could some how remove their sky gods at the start of my turn. In my hand I held two aces that I felt would be enough, but I watched the board like a hawk. Hoping that the two of them would try to expand and thin themselves out as much as possible.
The norse ended up making a huge push into Atlantis and even Asia Minor despite our previous truce there (According to him, it was payback for the Fire rains down). A pretty big blow for me on the last turn. To make taking Atlantis easier, the Norse used Siren's call to move my large defending army near Hibernia, then proceeded to move in. Killing off both my war god and death god. Which was unfortunate, as I needed at least one of them.

On my turn, I had only enough countries to recieve 3 faith, plus two extra for my two temples. The Norse and the Babylonian's did exactly as I thought they might, by thinning themselves out greatly and planning on using their sky cards to greatly control my own expansion. You could see the smugness on their faces as they thumbed through their large collections of sky cards.
Plus you could also see their jaws dropped when I only spent three faith to get my War God and then played "The Suns Grow Cold". Both of them turned to their Sky Gods, and realized about the same time that there was only a single army in the country with the God.

Bye bye, Sky Gods.

Using my larger armies in Germania, I proceeded to take exactly what I needed to win the game.

[StarvingWriter82]

A good lesson here is to pay attention to where your gods are... I always try to make sure there are more armies than gods on any given territory (The Sun Grows Cold) and if I have the luxury, I try to leave them on a temple as well (The Gods Forsake Us).

Personally my favorite card to hold until the final epoch (If I'm going last) is Ragnarok Cometh. It denies all my opponents use of sky cards, which is huge on epoch 5.

[Zak Arntson]

We had a game on Sunday with 4 people, non-random territories. Key points:

War cards went away before the 2nd epoch ended. My strategy was to buy 2 cards (saving the rest of my faith for using them), earn another card through conquering, then buy 2 more in the second epoch.
An extra temple early on goes a long way. Part of why I grabbed so many War cards was to either capture another temple and/or get the build-a-temple card. I managed to do both early on (though I lost the temple). Even though I only had Hyrkania (2 faith/armies), I was getting 4 extra faith (2 for Hyrk, 2 for temples) and 4 armies (with judicious conquering of crypts) for two or three epochs.
I over-extended mid-game. Which meant that even when I went last in the 5th epoch, I was unable to conquer enough territories, since my troops were too thinned out.
A player with 5 or 6 relic cards had the Aegis shield, which would nullify my destroy-all-relics card. So I baited him into spending it by using two other awful cards (one of which he cancelled).


My strategy for that game was: War cards early on, and grab the Death god (because if you fight a lot, you'll probably be able to grab a crypt). There were no enemy gods placed near me, so I didn't consider the Sky god as a purchase. Now that I reconsider, I think I'll remember not to over-extend and try to buy a Sky god by the 3rd or 4th epoch so I have a ton of defense cards by the end of the game.

[StarvingWriter82]

That's one of my favorite strategies - war and death god early on, buying a sky god later. (When I buy just a war and sky god, and then try to buy a death god later, I'm usually punished with crops wither or Ragnarok Cometh.)

[StarvingWriter82]

A new session report:



We had five players tonight, and since a few of the people were fairly new, we decided not to use any rules variants. I'll just hit the highlights, since a play by play isn't very useful.

All the players, as well as the girls who will be hanging out with my wife, arrive one at a time, forcing me to recommend the movie Garden State six times. That's ok with me - the movie is really worth recommending six times. It's the best movie I've seen in awhile, and the only one in a very long time that I'd go see in theatres twice, which is saying something, as the movie has no flashy "big screen" effects of any kind. The critics love this movie as well, but the descriptions of it fall dramatically short.

Go see this movie.

Anyway...

During unit placement, the Celtic player divided his armies into two even piles (half on a temple and half with his war god), and as a result lost all of his armies immediately. Today is his birthday.

I went last on the fifth epoch, and the player before me bought 3 war cards instead of buying a second god. As I was in no position to take anything in the underworld or to take out an opposing god, I bought 3 war cards as well. This allowed me to steal Visions Become Real, play it and draw 2 more war cards, then perform the war god's labor to deplete the deck on the first epoch. We attempt to discuss raising the cost to buy war cards and the girls on the other side of the room resolutely turn up the volume on Ella Enchanted. Nothing gets done, as we spend the next 20 minutes mocking the terrible lines, hilariously silly premise, bad acting, and terrible fake accents.

The middle of the game stalled with the Babylonians in Hypernia, Greeks with the green, egyptians with atlantis, and Norse fighting for Africa. The game stalled because the ill fated Celtic player spent all game saving up for a death god and then playing Ragnarok Cometh, removing eight, yes eight gods from the board. Everyone groans and the fourth epoch wastes away on fortify moves and resummoning of the all important sky god - I'm pretty sure not one territory changed possession in epoch 4.

Note: By this time, every entrance to the underworld is blocked by at least 10 armies from different players, making it impossible for the Egyptians or Babylonians to enter at all. If either one of them depletes their armies to enter, the other player will have an easy way in and dominate, so the underworld dissolves into a complete stalemate.

The Egyptians are going last and seem poised to win, but a flurry of sky cards first from the Norse (so they'll collect on Africa) and then from the Babylonians (to keep the Egyptians from taking Germania) shuts the Egyptian player down harshly (who can stand 7 sky cards played against them in one epoch?) and the Babylonians (me) end up winning by one point, despite spending most of the game with no continent bonus (I did get hypernia in epcohs four and five) and no temple (the egyptians took mine with The Temple Falls, despite the fact I had only one and everyone else had 2).

Observations seem obvious, but I'll condense them here just the same:

- Spreading your armies out in a five player game means you lose. There's not enough room on the board for five people, so you need to make sure you're not the guy that dies.

- Garden State is an awesome movie and everyone should go see it.

- Get your war cards while you can, once everyone has figured out they should buy at least 2 on their first turn, it's very realistic to finish epoch 1 with an empty war deck.

- Sky cards own you.

- Never play God Storm on your birthday.

- Ella Enchanted sucks. If anyone recommends the movie to you, stop talking to them.

In all seriousness, with everyone playing well, three players were in contention for the win, one player (in my opinion) could have had it by playing Time Stands Still and taking another shot, and one was utterly decimated simply because they were standing in the wrong territory.


I think that's about it... go see Garden State.

[Bismarck]

Thanks for spending the time to write this report SW, it's really informative to how people's games are going.
Here's what I found especially interesting.

-War deck got depleted in the 1st epoch.
This is in line what I have seen and what many people are reporting. I see this as a problem with the game design.

-You managed to win by what seemed like taking it easy and playing defensively for the first few epochs at least. Same thing happened in my last game, the player who won played really tight and kept his armies in Germania until epoch 4 when he started capitalizing on other people's weak positions. The action tends to gravitate towards the smaller continents so often it might pay off to stay out of there in the beginning, especially in 5-player games.

- Did anyone buy relics in this game? I'm interested in this deck because it seems people stay away from it in my games because the first 2 relics you lose and after that it's often too late for the relics to pay off.

-You Underworld got stalmated. This hasn't really happened in my games. Usually people spend all the guys they have in their heavens. If you have to pick a "bad" fight in the Underworld I usually attack the player who's strongest on the Earth board. I have usually encouraged people to play the Underworld rather quickly since it can draw out the game, there is not too much strategy involved down there in my opinion.

-You managed to win with no temple for most of the game, interesting considering the other thread. When you said your temple got stolen while you had one but everyone else had 2, did those people buy additional temples or did they get those 2nd temples via cards?

-What was the range of bids in your game?

[DocD]

I was under the impression one could only buy one kind of card per epoch?

[StarvingWriter82]

DocD - you can buy four cards per epoch, of any kind you wish. The one of each house rule was suggest to curb war card buying. I personally hate this rule, as later in the game, it could be crucial to buy 3 death cards or 4 sky cards in one turn (two of my turns this game featured crucial, multiple sky card buys)

Questions:

About the war deck, yes, that is fairly standard. I was personally hoping to go sooner rather than later in epoch 2 to help get the rest of the war deck, until I realized the deck was going to be immediately depleted. I could be wrong, but if I remember right, the buys for war cards were: 2, 2, 2, 3, 3 + Visions become real = 5, and everyone completed their labor. That equals 19 war cards drawn in one epoch. I forget how many there are in the deck, it's possible one player only bought one.

My defensive position was pretty good for most of the game. Many of the players gravitated toward the lower half of the board so I sat up around Thule. Taking Hypernia drew a little attention, but I had to because my temple was taken. I found myself saying, "Look, I'm collecting less/the same amount as everyone else" three times an epoch because for some reason, if you have a continent people percieve you as a threat, but if the guy next to them has 20 guys and 2 temples and more territories, he's not the threat because he has no continent. :rolleyes:

Relics were bought, they just didn't amount to anything so I didn't mention it. I frowned in dismay on my first turn as no one bought relics (one guy did buy a magic goddess, but went with the war cards) and I managed to pick up both Only Ash Remains and The Shrine is Plundered. The next turn the Norse player bought a relic - Aegis Shield. I knew i'd be able to destroy it, but obviously I was going to wait and see if he would use it on someone else before I did. He and the Egyptian player both god involved in sky god related gods wars later in the game (epoch 3), giving the Norse Excalibur (+2 armies for each continent) and Gungnir (reroll 1's on gods wars) and giving the Egyptians Pandora's Box. It was at this point that I used Only Ash Remains to blow up the Aegis Shield (the guy who got Pandora's Box was the same guy that gets it every game and it always totally screws him over, I could totally see my group cancelling the miracle just to leave it in the other guys possession) and then plundering the box. It turned out not to matter on the draws as both of the effects were random and uneventful, but I suppose it did matter on the points, because I recieved one point I got from it for controlling Gracecia, and I won by one point.

So in the end it was more of the same: Relics were of little use to their owners because the best two are always destroyed/taken. Someone else had also drawn Diamonds Turn to Rust, but then lost their death god, and its not worth resummoning and paying 3 faith to destroy 3 relics, especially when one is random and 2 are useless.

Yes, the Underworld stalemate was freakish. Normally people reserve a lot in their heavens, or else go all out and deplete themselves.

The temples were gotten via cards. The Egyptians stole mine, the Norse took over the Celtic temple after the Celts were destroyed, and the Greeks played An Empire is Born. One player, the Greeks, was considering buying a temple on the 3rd Epoch (so he could help defend his continent, it shaped up that I had Hypernia, He had the green, and we were having an arms race in the corner, neither of us comfortable with moving in) but then Ragnarok Cometh made everyone resummon their guys, and looking at it, he probably would have bought sky cards anyway. (Although buying a temple would have given him three temples and a continent, all difficult or impossible to remove, so it wouldn't have been a "bad" move, just not the "best" move in my opinion.)

Both copies of 1000 workers amass were played on epoch 5, so the game ended with 8 temples out. Both players that had the card (myself and the Greeks) would have used the card sooner, but since neither one of us got attacked for a few epochs, there was no good opportunity.

Bids in the game were quite varied. I bid the least, as I was holding no contients and a sky god, I spent the game bidding 0-1. The Norse spent it at around 1-2, as they needed to play aggressively (sandwiched between Egyptians and Greeks) but buy aggressively as well. As the Greeks and Norse both had continents they could take but not hold, their bids become important - the most common bid by either of them was 3, with a smattering of 2's and 4's thrown in.

[StarvingWriter82]

A couple more observations that I missed in the original session report:


- Four players strikes me as the optimal number of players for GodStorm. Every game of five player seems to work out like this: 2-3 contenders (people who might win) 1 kingmaker (someone who can't win themselves but is capable of making someone else lose) and one person who gets utterly destroyed because they are the unfortunate casualty as the other players feel out the land and make room for themselves. While this is perfectly fine from a strategic point and I will continue to enjoy five player GodStorm, it isn't very much fun for the guy who gets obliterated. That said, I am pretty good at making sure I am not that guy, and there are varying skill levels of that skill involved in my play group. Perhaps as everyone pulls themselves up to the level of making absolutely sure they can't be obliterated, things will change.

- It's very important to note who in your group is afraid of sky cards, and who is not. One player in my last game wouldn't attack me when I held a single sky card, and I was able to leave myself slightly vulnerable as a result. Another player attempted to barrel through three players with sky gods and a combined 7 sky cards, getting smashed as a result.

[katana_one]

Last night I played a 4 player game. Myself (about 5 games under my belt), my girlfriend (2 games experience) and two new players.

Random starting positions saw the Babylonians (me) scattered to the winds, but making the best of it by stacking everything in two territories in Asia Minor. The Greeks (girlfriend) started with over half of Africa. The Norse had half of Hykania and half of Germania, and the Egyptians found themselves as scattered as the Babylonians, but without the foresight to concentrate on holding any one particular piece of ground.

In Epoch One, the Babylonians made a clean sweep of Asia Minor, and in the process abandoned their only territory in Hykania - earning an unspoken treaty from the Norse player, who appreciated the chance to claim the continent early. The Greeks made large strides in securing nearly all of Africa, and the Egyptian player spent himself in fruitless attempts to take territory from stronger armies.

The board went largely unchanged for most of the middle of the game, as the Greeks secured Africa, the Norse expanded through most of Germania, and the Egyptians simply continued to lose territories until all they had left was half of Atlantis, a single army in one of the Germanian territories, and a plague-ridden island in Europa.

Then the Norse began to get aggressive around the end of Epoch 3, by invading Africa by way of Germania, denying the Greeks of their continent bonus.

Epoch Four saw the Greeks, instead of retaking Africa, successfully invade Asia Minor instead, ruining the Babylonians' chances of contending against the might of the Norse during Epoch Five (this was done out of spite after I played Only Ash Remains on one of her relics).

In Epoch Five, I knew that I was the only player who stood any chance of defeating the Norse, who had a clear lead in sheer number of territories owned (even without any continent bonuses). I decided I had to go before him, as he had spent the game stockpiling all manner of cards and the faith to play them. So I went first, hit the Norse with Crops Wither, and spread out as much as I could - which was not as far as I had hoped due to extremely bad die rolls, but still enough to put me in the lead. I then parked my largest army and collection of gods next to his largest army and pack of gods, hoping to bait him into attacking my slightly smaller force (I was holding Fire Sears the Sky). He did not take the bait, instead sending that army southward to cut like a hot knife through butter through most of Europa and into Africa, and then into Asia Minor, securing a victory. The Greeks were not strong enough to play kingmaker, and the Egyptians were in no position to do anything.

Game went to the Norse player in his first game of Risk Godstorm ever.

Some things that people might find interesting:
- The War deck did not deplete during the game
- The Death deck was depleted by the end of Epoch Four
- The Greeks made a strong comback in the middle of the game after losing their temple
- Don't destroy your girlfriend's relics, even if it is a good move, because she will come back to wreck you out of spite, even if it does not gain her any strategic advantage whatsoever.

[StarvingWriter82]

I would have to say that the war deck was not depleted because of the overall inexperience at the table (2 completely new players). It will be interesting to see how things go as your group evolves.

[katana_one]

I would have to say that the war deck was not depleted because of the overall inexperience at the table (2 completely new players). It will be interesting to see how things go as your group evolves.

Please, give them some credit. It may have been their first Godstorm game, but I would not consider them inexperienced players. I play other strategy games with them frequently, and I did explain the purpose, use, and overall costs of playing each of the decks. They knew War cards were cheap and easy to use, and the Norse player tended to buy from all decks instead of just War (the Egyptian player was never in position to acquire any cards at all). During that game, I opted to buy more or less equally from the Sky and War decks, as I was trying a different strategy (it may have worked if not for my girlfriend's thirst for vengeance - gotta love her).

Rather than suggesting that myself and my group are not "evolved," perhaps you could try mixing things up by trying different strategies in your own games. If you're going to play the same strategy every time, why would you expect a different result?

[StarvingWriter82]

I didn't mean to be insulting, or suggest that your play group has little to no experience outside of GS, or anything of the sort. I simply said it would be interesting to see what happens as your group becomes more familiar with GS. I don't think anyone can claim to know the in's and out's of a game from a single playing of it, and I'd certainly hope that your group improves over time - I have yet to see any strategy game in existence where a completely new player can consistently play better than someone who has played several games.

It's a logical assumption that all play groups evolve over time, and it is my guess that most play groups in GS evolve into a pattern of heavy war card use, for several reasons:

1) The war cards are the most powerful cards in the opening turns, and the quickest way to develop your board.

2) Of the three ways to press an advantage (on the board, card advantage, and quality and consistency of played cards) the war god has synergy with all three. Each of the other gods specialize in one area.

3) Typically, some players always favor opening relic buys, and the war cards are the way to counter that.

4) Many things that other decks do, the war deck can do equally as well or better, often for cheaper cost. (Compare The Siren's Call and The God's Forsake Us, or The Temple Falls and Fire Rains Down, for example.)

Again, my post was not intended to be an insult of any kind, just an observation.

Edit: Btw, I don't try the same things expecting different results, I expect the similar results when I try the same things, and in the past, winning games of GS almost (and I only say almost because I have not played an infinite number of GS games to stand by an absolute statement, but I am reasonably sure the "almost" could be removed) always involves the drawing and correct playing of a fair amount of war cards.

[katana_one]

Again, my post was not intended to be an insult of any kind, just an observation.

I understand your intention, but your post was not an observation - it was an opinion. An observation would be that the War deck was not depleted. An observation would be that there were two "inexperienced" players in the game. Saying that one was the direct result of the other is an opinion, and a biased one at that, since it is based on your experience with the game.

In the games I have played thus far, the War deck has only been depleted once. Just because it's true of some games does not mean it is true of all. Your comments suggest that the reason we didn't run out of War cards is because we don't know how to play yet, and I find that arrogant.

[StarvingWriter82]

Maybe I should rephrase myself.

"I noticed that your war deck did not deplete itself. I also noticed that your game contained some players that were new to the game. In my experience, the more games a group has played, the quicker war cards tend to get bought up, and other players on this board have made similar observations. It will be interesting to see if your play group follows the same path."

[katana_one]

It is indeed possible that buying heavy into the War deck early in the game will become popular with this group. It is a sound strategy after all.

On the other hand, I have the most experience with Godstorm in my group, and I have yet to adopt this strategy. I don't see myself falling into that routine any time soon. Among those I game with regularly, I am generally the one to defy convention and look for alternatives to the "tried and true" strategies used by everyone else (this usually works great in Axis & Allies).

I do have a question that I hope is thought provoking, at least. Had I not mentioned the experience levels of the players involved, what would you have attributed the non-depletion of the War deck to?

[StarvingWriter82]

In all honesty, I still would have asked about the experience level of the players. Along with the general consensus of the board as far as their experiences with the war deck, I've played GS with about a dozen different people now, and the routine is pretty much the same: Newer players tend to heavily favor the death or relic deck, and people have have played quite a few times tend to start with war/magic (in 3 player games) or war/death (in 4 and 5 player games) and branch out to the sky god later on. Occasionally players (both new and old) will start off with a sky god, but not often.

Of course, there are exceptions to every rule, and even so called "veteran" players don't have a ton more experience over newer players, as the game is very new. Usually it takes 2-3 games for players to get into a war-buying frenzy, and then after that debates rage as to the usefulness of the magic goddess in 5 player, and the best method to use to secure a win, and so forth. Especially if there are a lot of players buying up war cards, the ones who aren't typically jump on the bandwagon so they don't miss out on the war deck entirely (it's entirely possible to deplete the war deck on epoch 1).

I didn't intend for the post to be commentary on the overall skill level of your players - a good grounding in Risk, LotR Risk, Risk 2210, Magic: the Gathering, or just plain mathematics and theory can go a long way in helping out your game in GodStorm. I have players who start out the first time better at the game than some of the frequent players, and once they get used to the cards and the tempo of the game, they quickly excel. That's how I intended the statement - I think your play group will be interesting once everyone has a chance to adjust the unique tempo and cards in GodStorm.

[StarvingWriter82]

Four player game played last night, with no house rules. I was interested in seeing how things turned out, since everyone there is both experienced and used to playing with each other.

Placement was pretty bizarre. Three plague lands in Germania – Gaul, the territory right above Gaul, and the territory that serves as the northern entrance to Atlantis made it almost impossible to get from the top half of the board to the bottom, with the only “safe” route being through Hypernia and the green. (The fourth spot was in Europa blocking that.) I took advantage of the situation by placing nearly everything in Thule, while the Celts piled in the green “because that’s where all his stuff was” (more on that later) and the Babylonians in Hypernia and the Norse in Africa. I also put a few armies in Atlantis, but I didn’t put much stock in them, as if they all got wiped out there was almost no way to reinforce them.

The Babylonians and the Celts basically stared at the board and sighed for their first turn. I went third, and I noticed the Babylonian player had left his war god near mine, so I bought a sky god and took him out so I could collect a sky card for free. Free is yummy. The Norse player bought three war cards (instead of a god and 2 cards like the rest of us), took Africa, and then bid his one remaining faith to go first on the second epoch.

The second epoch was a mess, with the Norse using some well timed war cards and his extra bonuses (he collected 10 armies/faith) to wipe the Celts out almost completely amidst much grumbling. That’s the second or third game in a row that that particular player has gotten one turn or less. The Babylonians basically sat again, since he didn’t have the power to disrupt the Norse powerhouse (who now had all of Africa and most of the green as well) and he didn’t want to attack me, since I was the player capable of doing something about the Norse. On my turn, I removed the Gaul plague space and came down with all my armies in Thule, busting into Africa and taking a temple in the process. I also played “Faith Shall Deliver” to bring my sky card count up to 3. By now the Underworld is deadlocked, with piles of 10 on all the crypts and altars thanks to the savage beating received by the Celts.

Epoch 3 continues to see the Norse pushing on the weaker Babylonians, taking all the green. I swoop over with my armies, taking most of Africa and moving up to the green temple space. By now I have 6 sky cards – the Norse won’t attack into them, and Babylonians can’t.

In Epoch 4, the Babylonians finally make a move against the Norse – he has no one else to attack – crushing the Norse army but losing all his gods. The Norse player took his remains and headed back down into undefended Africa, but I ended up using Lava Erupts on the central square, taking out about 10 armies in the process and ending his hopes and dreams. I end up going last, buying three more sky cards – up to 8 now – and taking Africa. The epoch ends and suddenly the Celts and the Norse are almost out of it, and the Babylonians have 10 or so armies in the corner and nothing else.

I go first on epoch 5, buying 4 more sky cards –up to 12 now - with my 14 army/faith pull, and use Sirens Call to move the 10 armies Babylonian armies into the middle of Europa, where I have nothing, so there would be fighting among the others just to get to me. I then proceed to take all the continents on the board except Europa and all the temples. The Norse and the Babylonians have no faith or gods, and the recovering Celts have a death god but no relevant cards. They’re thinking they should just give up, and when I show them 2x swords become plowshares, 2x enemies convert, the fog lifts, and this ground is sacred, they throw in the towel.

Some notes:

I am utterly convinced that when doing random placement, how your armies are clumped (or not) makes almost no difference. Why? Since you’ll be stacking all your armies and branching out from there, one or two surrounding territories hardly matters. In the above game, I took the weak position and the Celts took the “strong” one when evaluating from a pure placement standpoint, but he had to try to defend his, while I was in the middle of nowhere. Now, lets say I have all my territories on the East side of the board. If I see my opponents stocking up over there, I’ll put all my stuff on one territory over in Atlantis and go with it. Few territories with no opposition is better than many territories with opposition.

The three war card buy is the most practical one if you need to bid on epoch 2.

Ironically, the war cards go slower if everyone is heavily aggressive, because everyone needs to use faith playing cards and re-summoning gods to keep up. (The war deck in the above game stayed around till the end of epoch 3, whereas if we had been defensive, it would have been gone at the beginning of epoch 2.)

Your overall army count needs to be carefully watched. For example, in a 5 player game, you have 25 armies at the start of the game, and if everything stays stabilized, you’ll collect 4 for each epoch, meaning a total of 45 armies for the entire game. If you lose a lot of those 50 in the first two turns, it can be almost impossible to regroup into a sizeable enough force to win. Using cards appropriately in the context is very important in my opinion – for example, when I used Lava Erupts, I didn’t just take out 10 armies and defend my land, I removed 20 percent of the armies the Norse would receive all game. That’s a huge blow.

No relic usage yet again. The Celts bought a magic goddess and a relic and got Freya’s Tears. Later in the game, the Norse bought a magic goddess and rolled 3 of the same number to get Pandora’s Box. The box was destroyed immediately, and no one bothered to steal the tears since it’s such an overall weak relic.

[Bismarck]

Nice report StarvingWriter.
A couple of comments.
-Don't you leave yourself vulnerable when you go hard on the Sky cards like that? "Crops Wither" and you lost your complete investment. There are even two of the "Crops Wither" cards in the Death deck so the chances are pretty decent of drawing one, especially since the Death card labor is so easy.
-The annihilation of the Celts so early was interesting. This kind of thing has also often happened in my games and it worries me since it ruins the night for someone. I felt 2210 was very nice in this regard, everyone could rely on staing there for the whole night. The trend in my games is that everyone is becoming more and more careful because if you have one bad turn, could be because of cards or dice, you might be out of the game.
-Interesting how your Underworld got clogged. The Death god is very popular in my games, he keeps the number of bodies down there to a minimum.
-Why did the Babylonians attack the Norse in epoch 4? It seemed like you were leading the game after you took Africa but the other players still kept fighting amongst themselves. Since it seems they were afraid of your Sky cards, did they put an effort into drawing "Crops Wither" at all?
-Your points about map tactics are good and valid. It doesn't matter at all if you have a couple of countries clumped together or not, you will be stacking most of your units anyways so it's more a question of being mobile from that location. I agree it's very smart to see where the opponents are going to stack and try to be far away, nothing is worse than being stuck between two strongholds. It's a huge advantage to be the one who places armies and gods last.
-Too bad the relics were irrelevant once again, I'm waiting for someone who has a tale where those mattered at all.

[StarvingWriter82]

Yes, it does leave me more open to death cards such as Ragnarok Cometh and Crops Wither, and I would normally never suggest investing in that many sky cards without finding some or all of the hand destroying cards first. (Either that, or I would concentrate on other decks once I got 4 or so sky cards.) However, I had a few things influencing me this game:

1) One crops wither was already played.
2) No one had a death god except the celts, and he was essentially out of the game, using his death god only for random effects or effects that specifically hurt the Norse (who was the one that killed him).
3) The death deck was pretty thick, so I figured I could take my chances that they wouldn't find anything in time with their quickly depleting resources.

As far as the Babylonians attacking the Norse, he really had no other option as the Norse was between me and him. The real play error, I think, was that the Norse continued to push away from me, weakening the other players, even as I gained strength.

To their credit, I wasn't really in that great of shape until I played Lava Erupts and turned Africa from a place I had to fight for into a place I could walk into.

As far as Underworld gluts go, I think it's most likely to happen when one player is immediately smashed and has 20+ armies in the underworld - it makes underworld development pretty difficult when someone says, "Ok, this half of the underworld is mine."

Edit:

It is also a bummer that the celts were annihilated so early, but I've reached a point with this particular player that I can't really feel bad. When he loses, he assumes there was nothing he could have done differently at any point (sometimes he's right, sometimes not), yet he keeps piling all his armies right in the middle of what he knows will be the most heavily contested areas. To top it off, he's also the player that has played more games of GodStorm than any of us. It does suck when a new player gets the hammer laid on them, but for those who have played more than a few games, the lesson should be simple: No matter how far out of the way and in a crappy spot you have to put your guys, put them there if it means they will stay alive. This is my placement tactic every game, and I am pretty sure I have won more games of GS than anyone else in our group, and those games I lost were because I watched people come busting out of Europa after sucking all game, and winning simply because they had armies and we didn't.

[Bismarck]

There is one interesting point here. StarvingWriter, you make a pretty solid case why it would be wise for everyone to stay as far away from the other players as possible, at least to begin with. I do agree with that by the way. Coupled with the other points about army preservation I see games becoming very conservative in experienced play groups. This is already a fast-becoming trend in my group. I can't say I mind that much in general, if it weren't for the fact that there are those couple of cards in the decks that can really wreck your game ("The Gods Forsake Us" and "The Siren Calls") whether you are cautious or not. A lot of people were advertising this game right when it came out as a game of "mayhem" etc, but it's probably not that kind of game at all. I would even predict that in a quality game of Godstorm you would have much less action than in a healthy game of 2210. You obviously can't fight as much when the reinforcements are so limited. The last time I played Godstorm people pretty much sat on their hands in epoch 4. Again, I'm not saying this is necessarily bad, for one the games should become shorter, which can definitely be a plus.
I guess quality play is that where you manage to stay out of everybody's way on the map and possibly get away with spreading your forces enough so that you don't become the target of one of those "killer" cards. So, in a way one could say Godstorm is a much more passive game than 2210 even though the dramatic cards and the smaller map might make you think it's more active.

[StarvingWriter82]

I would definitely agree. The more game wrecking cards become a subtle threat that influences play style as well, for example, if The Siren Calls has not been played yet, I won't play my copy of Eagles Take Wing or Paradise Lost, so I can rescue my stuff from a plague space. Also, if at all possible, I'll leave my gods/armies on a temple square to avoid The Gods Forsake Us, and always leave two armies on key territories to avoid a nasty Trojan Horse is Revealed. Of course, it's often impossible to do all these things, so you have to gauge which cards are most likely to be played, and if possible, intentionally put yourself in a second place position so if one of the brutal cards is played, it won't be played against you.

There are definitely a lot of subtlties in GodStorm that favor the advanced player - and the beauty of it is that a new player - or a player that refuses to take all things into account - won't even notice that it's going on.

[Bismarck]

Based on this discussion I figure Godstorm shouldn't be called "Risk", it should be called "Risk management"! You're quite right Starving that a good player will keep a count of the cards out there and might be able to make more educated choices than a less experienced player.
I haven't made up my mind yet whether I find the cards in Godstorm more enjoyable than the cards in 2210 or not. Three of the decks were very simular in 2210 but they did all affect different parts of the map though. I think the cards in Godstorm are more colorful but there are most often only three decks in play and only two after the 2nd epoch, that's a flaw in my books. I'm still hoping they issue some sort of expansion decks for Godstorm, it might improve the game a lot in my opinion.

[StarvingWriter82]

I agree that sometimes the choice of decks seems restrictive (like in the above session report, the sky deck was the only real choice, as the relics were useless, the war deck was gone, and when you have a significant lead, the death deck looks pretty unimpressive). If I were to make an expansion for GodStorm, I would include the following:

1) At least one more deck/god, two if they really want people to buy it, and three if they really want to impress people and send the expansion flying off the shelves and take GS to the next level.

2) At least half a dozen blank cards for each deck. (I personally can't see my play group using these, but it's a common enough request that it seems like an obvious inclusion.)

3) A better underworld map. Heck, even the same underworld map, only twice the size.

I think that would be about it, for the simple reason that this would be an incredibly cost-efficient addition, that seems like it could be sold at a pretty good price mark up. (With two decks, I could see an expansion being sold for 20 dollars or so easily.)

I think it would also be entirely possible to sell another set of armies and an addition to the map including perhaps north and south America. I think this is hardly necessary as I love the current board for GS and think they got it just right, but I could see them doing this if they wanted to push an expansion to the point of "Hey, we can sell this for the price of the original game!"

[Bismarck]

Well, if there were new decks they would have to make sure they are useful. There is no need for extra decks if they turn out to be as useless as the relics deck. I think it would be nice if AH spent some effort reading feedbacks and issued extra cards that would balance the decks that are already in the game. It would be sort of like a patch that are issued for video games. So, they could add some mediocre cards in the War deck to water it down a bit, a couple of good relics and perhaps another defensive relic to make that deck more useful. It would be nice if people had enough cards in all the decks so they could leave out some cards to balance the decks themselves.
Another idea would be to issue something like 4 different gods and corrosponding card decks and sell them all seperately, might be a balance nightmare though.

[Doctor Strategy]

I agree that sometimes the choice of decks seems restrictive (like in the above session report, the sky deck was the only real choice, as the relics were useless, the war deck was gone, and when you have a significant lead, the death deck looks pretty unimpressive). If I were to make an expansion for GodStorm, I would include the following:

1) At least one more deck/god, two if they really want people to buy it, and three if they really want to impress people and send the expansion flying off the shelves and take GS to the next level.

2) At least half a dozen blank cards for each deck. (I personally can't see my play group using these, but it's a common enough request that it seems like an obvious inclusion.)

3) A better underworld map. Heck, even the same underworld map, only twice the size.

I think that would be about it, for the simple reason that this would be an incredibly cost-efficient addition, that seems like it could be sold at a pretty good price mark up. (With two decks, I could see an expansion being sold for 20 dollars or so easily.)

I think it would also be entirely possible to sell another set of armies and an addition to the map including perhaps north and south America. I think this is hardly necessary as I love the current board for GS and think they got it just right, but I could see them doing this if they wanted to push an expansion to the point of "Hey, we can sell this for the price of the original game!"

1) Yeah I think that would sell an expansion.

2) Can you say major unbalancing factor. There would be some horrific cards such as Death Card: Sacrifice three faith. Banish all opposing gods in play. The player's gods are immune to this effect.

3) There is no need for a new underworld unless you add a new culture. They could use the marshalling circles ideas from A&A Revised and do them up Godstorm style. Or even task force markers like in A&a Pacific would work.

[StarvingWriter82]

I would hope that if anyone made a horribly unbalanced card, his friends would horribly beat him, and he would never do it again.

If he could use his limbs to write.

[Zak Arntson]

Played a short 2 player game with my 7 year old nephew. It was either this or Lord of the Rings RISK (which I figured would be less exciting, considering it's more strategy and less crazy-card playing). I let him win while attempting to look like I wasn't allowing it. It was pretty fun, I grabbed Africa (he slowed me down by an Epoch by playing the "kill a plague and all armies in that territory" card) and let him get Germania.

What was interesting was the 3 armies per neutral territoy rule. It really makes things interesting. Made me seriously consider a 3-army per territory for defense instead of two, just because it was such a chore taking over Africa and it deterred me from trouncing the neutral player on all fronts. In fact, by the game's end, there were still a number of neutrally-owned areas (granted, we weren't playing hard core).

Oh, and for the sake of completeness, I let him get Germania and he prudently went last in the 5th epoch by choice! (I didn't even explain that piece of strategy to him) So he got a zillion troops and poured into my half-heartedly defended Africa, in addition to grabbing Hyrkania. The final score was 57 to 22.

Lastly, what surprised me, was how quickly he picked up on the rules. Dice comparisons went smoothly, he was able to understand most of the cards, and he even independently kept at least two armies in his territories. The funniest part was that he didn't understand the neutral armies until he asked, "So they're like computer players, right?" Yup.

[StarvingWriter82]

"So they're like computer players, right?" Yup.

I tell you, it is an interesting philosophical momement for people of the 80's generation (like myself) when we realize that we are the first generation that primarily comprises our childhood memories from video games. Sure, playing outside and going swimming was loads of fun (pretending to be armies guys or Ultima's warriors of vritue!) but the days when you could actually stay inside and play Super Mario Brothers 3? Those are some good memories.


Side note: Now, I'm 22 and married, and I own a VCR, DVD player, PS2, Sega Genesis, Nintendo, and racks and racks of DVDs and games (note to others: never make your DVD collection something that's out in the open... my wife and I have honestly bought DVDs because "It would look great in our collection" or "three more and we'll finish a row") what gets (by far!) the most usage?

Our SMB3 and SMB/Duck Hunt Nintendo cartridges. There was one time my PS2 actually tried to smother the NES with a pillow while it slept.

[Zak Arntson]

Yeah, it's kinda weird. I got in on video games right when personal computers hit the market (I still have a Timex Sinclair ZX80 or two in the basement -- one has an 8k RAM expansion!). I still don't assume other people hold an intuitive knowledge of video games (unless I know they're gamers), even though kids prove me wrong all the time.

And now I can't find a way to get this back on topic. How's this:

Bismarck, I've found in play that the War cards are great because of their power. It makes the early epoch strategy much different than the later strategy. The only card I have a problem with is Death's "Discard your hand" card, because twice I've had it used against me by a stronger opponent to get rid of my Sky cards (which made them even stronger!). The only counter to this would be to drain the Death deck early on in order to nab the "discard" card before anyone else gets it. Grrr.

[StarvingWriter82]

I personally think that the two copies of Crops Wither (target player discards their hand) and Ragnarok Cometh (destroy all war and sky gods) are the defining cards of the deck, easily the most important, and the only reason to dig into the death deck.

The death god is the only god where you can get an easy "free" card each turn, and when using the death god, the primary way you are trying to win is through this card advantage. Crops Wither and Ragnarok Cometh push this advantage.

[StarvingWriter82]

A quick session report on a three player game. I had hoped, this game, to test out the viability of buying a magic goddess, then buying maybe one relic (with the thought process being that if it wasn't very important it could go unnoticed for a few turns and give me back my investment).

One of my opponents decided to go the death God route, which is good for me, since it allows me even more control over the board. The other opponent bought 2 war cards and held the other 3 faith (Note: It seems like he tries the "save up my faith" tactic often, and it just doesn't seem to work. I wouldn't recommend it, if someone disagrees or is curious, I'll write a long litany of reasons why. :p )

On my turn, everything changed for my strategy: I bought a magic goddess, and then a war card and relic. My cards? A Shrine Is Plundered and Aegis Shield.

I stared at my cards in disbelief as I realized that any relics I bought were now almost untouchable as long as I only used my Aegis shield in the most critical of moments.

I spread out into Africa and Atlantis, the Celtic player (with the death god) took a bunch of Germania and Europa, and the norse player got to work on Hypernia and Asia minor. Despite my round two buy of Freya's Tears and The Great Pyramids, things didn't look too great - I was butting heads with the Celts while the Norse grew in power. The Norse took Africa smashing my gods in the process, but I was okay with that – my magic goddess had done her work, and I was pretty sure that since I was rolling four dice (thanks to an underworld altar) I would pick up at least one relic on the way out. I did – Stonehenge.

During placement for that turn, the Norse player bought his other two gods thanks to him collecting on Asia Minor and Hypernia, and he puts all his stuff down and gets ready to smash face. He hesitates – he says “every time I place all my guys in the same spot, I get smashed” and does it anyway.

The Celtic player plays Eagles Take Wing moving all his armies to a plague space in Asia Minor, and then playing The Land is Purged to wipe out everything, leaving me open to go back into Africa, and losing his Asia Minor continent bonus all the while.

I buy a sky god and war god and move back into Africa – at this point I’m pretty much going to win even though my opponents don’t see it yet – I still have my Aegis Shield, as well as The Great Pyramids and Stonehenge, and the death deck is still nearly full (I think there were like two cards drawn from it all game). I take the Celtic player’s temple and push back into Africa. The following turn sees me picking up another free sky card, plus buying four more thanks to Stonehenge, then playing Faith Shall Deliver for 2 more. The other two players start to panic about this time (epoch 4) but it’s no use – the Celtic player tried to use 14 armies and a war god to attack a territory with only one army on it, and he was the unhappy recipient of 1000 workers amass, the fog lifts, enemies convert, swords become plowshares, and your idol is false, making the score now 7 on each side, with me having a temple and him having no war god. I let the Norse player use Only Ash Remains on Stonehenge, I want to stop anyone from using the time turning card or anything else game shifting. On epoch 5, I am now collecting on 4 temples – my own, the Celtic player’s, one thanks to An Empire is Born, and one from 1000 workers amass – as well as Atlantis. I use the faith to fill up on four more sky cards (plus one from my pyramids) and the 5th epoch is much of the same – This Ground is Sacred stops the Norse player from going anywhere, and the last of the cards demolished the Celts.


I hope to try the magic goddess game again, although I usually play with more than three players, and even when playing with three, I pretty much got the best draw I could hope for on turn 1, which allowed all the abuse. We had a pretty decent discussion after the game, specifically relating to strategies and counter-strategies in GodStorm, and they realized that a big part of why I won is because no one developed a death god (the appropriate countermeasure to a sky god).

That, and the remark about piling all the guys leading to destruction, I found amusing, since I’ve seen similar remarks and outcomes several times before.

[Bismarck]

Dude, were you playing against your kid brothers or something? It seems like your opponents allowed you to have incredible faith income throughout the game. In the beginning you said one of them tries to conserve faith every time, yet he must have allowed you to bid higher for turn order so you would get some continent bonuses. No way you could afford all that stuff otherwise (I do realize you had Stonehenge). Then despite you having the best relic in the game, protected by Aegis Shield they wouldn't gang up on you till the game was basically over.
If I counted correctly you used at least 7 faith on epoch 1, 4 faith on epoch 2, 6 faith on epoch 3 and 8 faith on epoch 4 (counting the sky cards played). These faith numbers mean you probably didn't use much to bid for turn order which must mean your opponents did nothing to prevent you from collecting bonuses which I assume you received.
Maybe I overlooked something but I find it amazing that your company would just allow someone to walk over a game like that.

Edit: I agree that the magic godess is probably often overlooked. She does bring a bonus on the board which the Death god and often the Sky god don't. It is also a good idea to test how the two War cards regarding relics play out, either by buying one relic or hoping you get a bonus one. If you're lucky the "Shrine is Plundered" will be played first and then "Destroy a Relic" on that one. Then you might have a window of oppertunity to buy more relics. Last game I played I bought both the Death god and the Magic godess on my first turn, just for the deadly combo those form with the War god on the board. I didn't really get any triples but the Magic godess was probably worth the 3 faith just because of the dice bonus.

[StarvingWriter82]

I wouldn't by any means put the players I played against on the newbie level - both of them have played as many games as I have. That said, there were some very significant play errors, particularly on epoch 3, where I was allowed to keep Atlantis. Atlantis was the only continent I collected on, but I also had three temples thanks to cards. I was, board position wise, in the worst position most of the game. This allowed me to capitialize on the 3rd epoch when the Celtic player was forced to use up all his resources to utterly destroy the Norse player, making my meager board position look very powerful. The Celtic player and Norse player both put themselves in positions where it was difficult to get to me without going through plague lands or all the way accross the board, which forced them into each other (much commenting was made that we preferred the four player game over the three).

To me, it felt like I was a frail martain, observing the Earth from space, waiting for the humans to launch their nukes against each other so I could go down and take over the now barren planet. What can I say? It worked.

Not to blow my own horn or anything, but I think this goes to show that with a solid political strategy - not whining or begging or forming alliances, but just setting up the board properly so players will leave you alone until you can bust out - can win a game of GS. On the 4th epoch - one that really mattered because I was able to reinforce my sky cards - the only player with faith - the Norse - didn't bid any, because he felt it wasn't profitable for him to come after me, so I was able to go first and collect a ton of faith.

Lately, I seem to be a big fan of the "spread out in Europa" strategy, especially if plague lands make Europa a sub-optimal or impossible travelling zone. Not so I can take it, but because having 5-6 extra territories boosts your count just as much as having a continent.

One thing I don't think I mentioned is that I thought you (Bismark) would be impressed by the turnout of this game since all decks were viable most of the game (relics were bought into the 3rd epoch, war didn't run out till 4th, sky deck ran out in the 5th).

[Bismarck]

I agree with you StarvingWriter that diplomacy in Godstorm usually has minimal returns. I have noticed however in a couple of your session reports (which are appreciated by the way) you have mentioned that two of the other players have been fighting each other because the board didn't allow them access to anyone else. I think in that position it is wiser to make sure everybody realizes if someone else has got a clear card advantage or a continent etc, and try to make sure that person isn't handed the game just because he's out of everyobody's way. I know every game group has different dynamics but I usually find it possible to relate to common sense and make sure I don't get into an armageddon war with someone while the 3rd guy is winning the game with minimal effort.
One thing surprises me about the playing of the other guys in your group. It seems you dig into the sky deck very aggressively every game with good results, yet nobody seems to counter it by trying to draw "Crops Wither". I do realize that last game you had the Aegis Shield early, but people can't let that deter them. If nobody wants to play the first good card against the Aegis Shield then people are letting the Shield be far more powerful than it should be.
I agree with you that Europe is a very interesting continent in Godstorm. In my experience people often leave it alone because they concentrate on the smaller continents. If you're the only person with a stack of armies in Europe it might be interesting to spend some faith trying to go last in the 1st epoch and first in the 2nd epoch. You will never be able to hold it longer than that but you will collect a lot of armies and faith just for that one time and if you make sure to play a bit careful in the next epoch to take the bullseye off your back, you might have a slight advantage in the game. Having your base in Europe also gives you a good chance to attack most of your opponents if they're vulnerable.
I did realize that you had a very good card distribution in your last game. Some of it had to do with your luck with the early relics and cards, but never the less. I was a bit surprised how little action the death deck saw, maybe beacuse you had the Aegis Shield, I don't know. The counter to both the Atlantis and someone who stocks up on sky cards is the death deck. I like the idea of trying to utilize all the gods, I think they might very often prove their worth over buying cards. As I said before my favorite opening buy at the moment is a Magic godess and the Death god, then possibly a Sky god on the next epoch.

[StarvingWriter82]

I couldn't agree with you more, regarding the fact that my opponents should not let sky cards deter them. That's the interesting thing about sky cards - the threat of their use is much more powerful than their actual use.

I'd like to think I'm pretty good at the technique of winning without looking like I am winning. It seems like nearly every game we play that I win, at least one person says "hey, wait. How did he win?"

Concerning movement and attacking, I'd like to think I'm pretty good at manipulating other players by being in the right spot at the right time. At the beginning of my turn, I look at the board and say "is there anywhere on this board I can be that it will be impossible for anyone to bring a sizeable force there?" If there is, I'm heading there regardless of temples or continent bonuses I might give up. (I think one of the primary mistakes people make is trying to hold ground when they don't have the troops to do so - if you don't have the guys to hold Africa, don't even try, just leave.)

The other thing is that I think a lot of players know (for example) rerolling 1's is good, or sky cards are good, or whatever, but they don't know why, and/or they don't push that particular advantage. A lot of people seem to buy gods and cards almost at random, buy cards on a whim and play them as soon as it's beneficial to do so. I'm convinced that winning in GodStorm is all about taking one aspect of the game (faith spending efficiency, card advantage, and board control) and exploiting it as much as possible. Trying to be a jack of all trades seems not to go over so well - it's all about finding your strategy and pushing on one aspect until it breaks. (That said, if it's not working, you have to be willing to swtich.) Along the same lines, you need an overarching strategy for each epoch. If someone buys a sky god on turn 1, I'm not going to buy a death god on epoch 4 - I'm buying one now. It's the only way I can assure that come epoch 5, a fist full of sky cards won't wreck me. I think that's where your observation about me drawing sky cards comes in - many times players don't attempt to deal with problems until after they have become problems, and at that point, it's too late. You really need to be able to look at the boiard and figure out how each player is going to develop.

[Bismarck]

I mostly agree with this analyzis. I think many people don't realize that the board only represents about half of the game standings, the cards probably matter almost as much. I said in another thread regarding relics that if someone got very lucky with those, people needed to realize that and take that into account when evaluating the board. Same with sky cards, in your last game you had a guy attack you with 14 armies against 1. Yet, since you had a number of sky cards the odds in this battle were actually in your favor. So, in effect people should look at someone's sky cards and say, this guy effectively has x number of extra armies on the board. This also holds true about how much faith people have conserved. If you see someone is saving faith you should guess that he might be trying to pull the go last-go first trick so you better make sure he isn't going to collect a bonus for a big continent without some risk at least.
I agree that it's very important to stay in a safe position on the map. It's great to be the person who goes last in the placement phase because you get to see where everybody is most likely placing their stack of troops. In my games this is usually somewhat neutralized by the fact that this deters people elsewhere on the board to fight as much and makes you a more probable target for cards since you're out of reach mapwise.