Potential Error in Game.

[Valmorian]

I'm not sure if this was just a misprint in the version I have or if it's common to all, but the first game I played of this we had a haunting that involved the "Underground Lake". For some reason, however, the lake was labelled on the back of the tile as being an "Upper Floor" tile, even though the haunting strongly implied that it was a basement tile.

I suspect that this tile is simply misprinted on the back. Can anyone else verify that this is the case in their copy of the game? Is there a way for me to get a replacement tile with the correct back?

[Kit Darkholm]

I too thought it was a misprint, but if you take a closer look at the tile, you can see that around the edges of the lake there are two floors of collapsed / missing blocks. I took this to mean that you are looking at the lake from two floors up.

While I don't think that it is a misprint and the Underground Lake is indeed an Upper-level room tile, it would be nice to get official confirmation here.

[Bruce Glassco]

This is an error. I'm talking to the AH people about possibly putting a scan of the proper tile back on this site, so you can print it out and glue it on. Ideally I'd like to print new tiles, but not sure if this is feasible.

[Valmorian]

I too thought it was a misprint, but if you take a closer look at the tile, you can see that around the edges of the lake there are two floors of collapsed / missing blocks. I took this to mean that you are looking at the lake from two floors up.

That was our take on it to, right up until our Haunting referred to the tile being in the basement. Then it became rather obvious that the tile was SUPPOSED to be a basement tile.

Not a huge deal, as long as the Haunt you get doesn't need the Underground Lake to be in the basement, but ours did.

Since it was our first game, we were a little disappointed. :(

[Valmorian]

This is an error. I'm talking to the AH people about possibly putting a scan of the proper tile back on this site, so you can print it out and glue it on. Ideally I'd like to print new tiles, but not sure if this is feasible.

Well, it should be rather trivial to get a scan of the back of this tile. Since that's the only error, that would fix it. Unfortunately, it would make it rather obvious which tile it was though. ;)

[Kit Darkholm]

This is an error. I'm talking to the AH people about possibly putting a scan of the proper tile back on this site, so you can print it out and glue it on. Ideally I'd like to print new tiles, but not sure if this is feasible.

I really don't know what else to say but "Wow." I was certain that the tile was correctly listed as an upper-floor tile. Guess I would have known otherwise if I played a haunt that needed that tile in the basement.

If it was an error in QA then I must respectfully submit that Avalon Hill should step up to the plate and create a new tile with the correct backing and send it to those who request it. At the risk of stating the obvious, this is not an inexpensive game. Mind you if I got it at Wal-Mart for $9.99, a scan of the back of the tile would be more than sufficient. Alas, it cost a wee bit more than that. ;)

[series]

In Axis and Allies D-day, they replaced the missing british infantry and german tank i think it was... I am sure they would fix this.

I am considering to order to game tommorow... I'm not 100% sure though, I heard of multiple errors in the haunts...

[twonkbot]

We've (my playing group) decided on a real basic "House Rule" for this, at least until we can get a properly backed "Basement" Underground Lake... and that is, simply, treat it something like the "fall through" effect of the Collapsed Room. When someone "enters" (draws) the Underground Lake room on the Upper floor, they PLUMMET two stories into the Underground Lake... and you place them, and the Lake tile, at any appropriate doorway in the Basement. Tile is where it should be, and one more nice little "drop" tile in the set, to go along with the Collapsed Room, the Coal Slide, and the random effects of the Mystic Elevator and Mystic Slide.

It's probably the simplest solution I can see at this point....

Timothy Rose, Mayhem Minion

[VID-IOT]

I like that house rule. For this game it makes perfect sense. I'll have to start using it at my games.

[The Rat King]

I like that house rule as well. It fits with the theme of the game.

[Ratling Raider]

I like it too, definitely will use it this way....

[holywolfman]

...Sounds GOOD to me!- :D

[moppar]

i agree that the underground lake should be re-printed and made available by request. replacing the back with a downloaded cover would be like having an ace with a smudge on the back.

[series]

i agree that the underground lake should be re-printed and made available by request. replacing the back with a downloaded cover would be like having an ace with a smudge on the back.
Or be like having an ace with a peice of paper taped to the back :D

I think I know a way to solve it- if you keep all the tiles together, flip them over one at a time as you search for the next one. If you are looking for a basement tile, and underground lake is drawn, use it. I never played before so I don't know if this is how it is now/impossible... any comments?

[Ubergeek]

The variant above works great, but it should be reprinted. Just flipping the tiles reveals rooms that have passed and won't come up until the next shuffle. I'd rather keep them face down to input a bit more suspense.

[Kit Darkholm]

We've (my playing group) decided on a real basic "House Rule" for this, at least until we can get a properly backed "Basement" Underground Lake... and that is, simply, treat it something like the "fall through" effect of the Collapsed Room. When someone "enters" (draws) the Underground Lake room on the Upper floor, they PLUMMET two stories into the Underground Lake... and you place them, and the Lake tile, at any appropriate doorway in the Basement. Tile is where it should be, and one more nice little "drop" tile in the set, to go along with the Collapsed Room, the Coal Slide, and the random effects of the Mystic Elevator and Mystic Slide.

Good job, Twonkbot. That is an awesome fix and completely fits the atmosphere of the game and the house.

(Now I'm having creepy recollections of the swimming pool scene in "Poltergeist")

[holywolfman]

"As the coffins start shooting out out the ground and opening"....Yeah- pretty creepy!- :eek:

[Smonkey]

I like the idea that the underground lake is an upper floor tile because it adds to the "this house doesn't make sense" feel to the game.

If that scenario ever came up (it hasn't with us yet) we would make a house rule that the traitor places the underground lake tile on any free vacant unexplored room in the basement (including anybody that is in it). If that leaves gaps in the upper floor more so the better. I feel that a reword of the rules/scenario such as this would be more beneficial and easier to incorporate into the game than a new tile back as this can be seen when you draw a new tile. I too like the idea that the UL is then 'fallen through' to the basement in that scenario but it should continue to be an upper tile in the other games :-)

Smonkey

[VID-IOT]

This could be seen as a good or a bad thing as far as the game is concerned, but using the "Fall through to the underground lake" method from above worked in an interesting way during a game. While trying to escape a monster my character entered an upper room floor and found the Underground Lake.
So using the house rule, we moved the tile and my piece to the basement. Basically I escaped the clutches of the monster because now it would have to find another route to the basement.
So in this situation it's hard to tell if the rule is fair or not. In one case this gives a player a chance to escape a monster despite the fact that monsters can not be halted inside the house by wall switches and elevators, etc.
But in another case this was not meant to be part of the game, and it could be argued that it's not fair for the traitor.

[holywolfman]

This could be seen as a good or a bad thing as far as the game is concerned, but using the "Fall through to the underground lake" method from above worked in an interesting way during a game. While trying to escape a monster my character entered an upper room floor and found the Underground Lake.
So using the house rule, we moved the tile and my piece to the basement. Basically I escaped the clutches of the monster because now it would have to find another route to the basement....


So does that mean monsters can't use the coal chute...mystic elevator (one of my favs!) or even the "Fall thru rooms" (like the lake in the variant rule)?

I thought monsters can use them normally! :confused:

[Smonkey]

I believe (and I dont have the rulebook in front of me) that monsters cannot explore unexplored rooms. They can however use the abilities of the mystic elevator and coal chute providing those tiles have been revealed.

Smonkey

[twonkbot]

And so therefore, escaping the Monster by drawing the Lake tile would be no different than your hero overturning the "Mystic Elevator" tile and taking it (randomly, admittedly) to the basement. The Monster would then have to find an alternative route to the basement at that point as well (or hope that there was ANOTHER monster already in the basement that could take the Elevator back UP!!)

Is it a perfect fix? Obviously, not, since we all want a "corrected" Lake tile anyway... Is it "fair"? Yeah, I think so. It's not like you PLANNED that "get-away" strategy, now is it? Took deliberate advantage of a loophole or something? Luck of the draw, and all that....

Besides, if this REALLY bugs you, then you can always mark the upper door (where the Lake WOULD have gone) with a token of some kind, and simply say that "anyone (Player or Monster) going through that door lands in the Lake in the basement", much like you could use the Secret Stairs tokens in a dead-end room to go somewhere else... and not put any tile on the upper floor adjacent to that door....<grin>

--Timothy Rose, Mayhem Minion (who is trying to get his group to agree that anyone plummeting down to the Lake should lose a speed, 'cause being soaking wet MIGHT slow you down a bit...<grin>)

[Rufferto]

Here's another work around we came up with over the weekend. It's not perfect, but it may solve some issues.
What you do is take a yellow hightlighter and highlight the word "Upper" on the back of the Underground lake tile. From a distance, it looks just like any card, but up close, you can see the hightlighting. Whenever an explorer explores the upstairs or the basement, look at the back of the next tile to be drawn. If it says "Upper" only, take a closer look at it to see if it's highlighted. If it is, discard or place it accordingly.
If the card is marked more visibly, people will know when the underground lake tile has passed to the discard pile or not in all cases. With this subtle hightlight, it keeps people from knowing that when they are exploring the ground floor.

[holywolfman]

The best solution (for those that can)...is to scan the "correct" tile and just cut the corresponding "windows" out and glue stick it on the wrong one ...this help minimize having any wrong colors and it blends in quite nicely!- ;)

..Or have AH/Hasbro make and send out small decals of just the "window sections" needed to cover up the wrong ones...this way it is low cost for them and easer for us since it is easier to align a small section at a time than to do a whole entire back side which would have more chances for misalignment.

[mscjec]

Here's my solution (contains some spoiler info about Haunt 33.....read only when using this haunt). Basically the only rules changes are required when you actually play Haunt #33 and, even then, if the haunt tile has already been played.





When Haunt #33 is activated:

HEROES:

(Optional) Replace the Heroes opening text:

"You find a young girl unconcious, hidden in the ever-present shadows within this house. She is soaked to the skin, pale and injured from some prior ordeal.
What is going on, here? What has happened to this damp and battered beauty? Who has done this foul thing and why?
You kneel beside her...she still lives. You turn slightlyd to call for help and see one of your group already there. However, your 'helper' suddenly raises his fist and strikes you at the back of your neck. It was too quick an attack! You drop.
In a haze, you see the traitor hiss at you, collect the girl up and quickly leave the room. Where are they going? Your still-ringing ears catch something: "Back down...down to the Lake you go...it is hungry this time and this time you won't be coming back."
You black out again.
Finally you come to. It takes a moment to get to your feet...but at least you now know what you have to do. You stumble forward following the wet, slimey trail."


1) If the Underground Lake tile has not been placed yet: Follow the Haunt rules as written.

2) If the Underground Lake tile HAS been played on the Upper Floor: The tile should remain where it is played. The Underground Lake tile is your access to a vast Underground Lake...some two stories below. In any other Haunt, you just wouldn't go into the lake. But, in Haunt 33, the characters may climb in and out of the lake from this tile....think of it as a horrific 'High Dive' diving platform. (Optional: it takes one movement point to climb up.) Also, you cannot explore the house anymore. Ignore all the rules about continuing to explore if there is no way into the basement - the Underground Lake tile is the way into the lake.

The new 'lake tiles' (face down house tiles) will be placed as per the rules. Since both cases have the only 'lake tile' connection being the Underground Lake tile, there is no change in the rules.



TRAITOR (optional):

1) Remove your character token from the board. You have moved the girl to the Underground Lake and there you will wait to ambush the heroes. On the 'Traitor turn' do nothing until they have 'found' you. When a hero conducts a search and gets a chart result of 4 or 9 (first time only), you return you character token to the board upon the lake tile of the character that made that roll.

2) Beware the Creature, as it may attack you if you move about! When you move to a new lake tile, you must roll four dice:

0: You find an itme in the murky waters. Draw an item card and end you movement this turn.
1-5: Nothing happens...
7-8: The creature mistakenly attacks you with a Might of 4. If you defeat it, you may move one tile in any direction for free with no roll required for moving to a new Lake tile. If not, you take the damage.

[SilentHillogist]

What's about THIS Idea:


The Underground Lake IS a Upper Floor card, but with this special rule:

If you get it BEFORE The Haunt starts, put it on the duscard pile. Nothing happens.

If you get it AFTER The Haunt starts, the floor of one room in the basement crashes, and under it... Voila, an Underground Sea.

To choose the room that breaks, you can let the traitor choose or you make a 6 - dies - roll and count the room out that breaks. It's just forbidden to let a room break that's important for the mission.

If there aren't some special rules for this lake (I can't look now, I'm not at home): It's necessary to get 4 at a speed roll if you cross it. If not, you have 2 physical damage.


Thx for the Betrayal


Thomas



P.S.: Sorry for some bad English expressions... I'm from Austria