AARE Playing 2.0 & losing with Axis (& winning with Allies) Please help

[newaxis]

My friends and I have played numerous games of A&A using the Enhanced 2.0 rules. Even with bidding as high as 18 IPCs, the Allies keep winning. Sure, the games aren't total blowouts, but no matter who plays the Axis, they lose. We have developed some very good Allied techniques (collectively) but fail to see how the Axis can win. We have tried various strategies such as German Northern Navy, German Southern Navy, heavy ground vs Russia, very heavy Japenese and German landing in Africa, we have seen an Allied assault & IC built in the East Indies as well as all the action taking place in the Atlantic.

I'm not saying the Allies automatically win, but with competent play we have not found a way for them to lose, especially with a strong US fighter buy on turn one. Once Caucasas gets 10+ fighters on it, it becomes a fortress impregnable to even a combined attack from the Axis. Anyway, we would like some techniques for Axis victory. It seems to us that Panzerblitz & Banzai are a must.

Any suggestions to boost the Axis, strategy-wise?

[pagan]

As far as I can tell the Axis have to take bad odds and risky aggressive chances to win against a micro-managed compitent Allies.

It's something that playtesting will either show to be fixed, or I'm not seeing the game correctly.

As a quick boost...?
--you bid is very high and any game should strive to remove any need for a bid.

--give Germany a free tech at the end of his turn: Long Range Aircraft

--you can kill navy from very far away!
--prepping with a total of 3 TN for operation sealion will definately alter UKs round 1 decisions

--or how about ROCKETS

----with subs sitting in the baltic you could do 4+ ipcs of damage every round on uk
---additionally you move an AA in eastern then you can hit both russian ICs with last two AA guns for 7+ ipcs per round.
--free ipc kills + the inf trades with ussr costs will break ussr

that will definately be a boost. PLUS your best players should play the Axis.

these things should dramatically increase the wins for the axis.

[newaxis]

Hmmm Interesting suggestions. I'm just puzzled as to why the lot of us are so good at the Allies. We had one epic game go for 25 hours, but the Allies won through attrition <shrug>

[pagan]

simple IPC economics.... the more rounds, the less likely it is for the axis to win.


I am personally playing the AARe gaem with a modified map to lessen that specific problem to a later number of rounds. I think the allies should win in time, just that it should be longer than it currently is.

The weakest axis point, to me, is Japan.

here are my current changes: Japan income is 34 (~30)

1. no bid
2. +1 IPC wake island (currently 0)
3. +1 Solomons (currently 0)
4. +1 Carolines (currently 0)
5. +1 Philippines (currently 3)

[Kaufschtick]

As far as I can tell the Axis have to take bad odds and risky aggressive chances to win against a micro-managed compitent Allies.

It's something that playtesting will either show to be fixed, or I'm not seeing the game correctly.

As a quick boost...?
--you bid is very high and any game should strive to remove any need for a bid.

--give Germany a free tech at the end of his turn: Long Range Aircraft

--you can kill navy from very far away!
--prepping with a total of 3 TN for operation sealion will definately alter UKs round 1 decisions

--or how about ROCKETS

----with subs sitting in the baltic you could do 4+ ipcs of damage every round on uk
---additionally you move an AA in eastern then you can hit both russian ICs with last two AA guns for 7+ ipcs per round.
--free ipc kills + the inf trades with ussr costs will break ussr

that will definately be a boost. PLUS your best players should play the Axis.

these things should dramatically increase the wins for the axis.

Newaxis,

Pretty sound advice from Pagan here, IMHO. Especially the long range aircraft. If you don't want to give this to the Axis for free, you could have Japan select the NA that gives them 12 free IPC's toward developing a minor tech., and then with tech. sharing, the Germans could pick it up at a reduced cost. Just a thought.

[pagan]

actually KAUF... i was hoping they'd see it a different way with enhanced rules....

japan using its NA + the Shared TEch rules

[newaxis]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm looking for some general strategies to improve the Axis right now. If America goes heavy Africa with Mechanized Infantry, they are difficult to stop. But enough rambling on my part...

[Kaufschtick]

actually KAUF... i was hoping they'd see it a different way with enhanced rules....

japan using its NA + the Shared TEch rules

Right on, I'm with you on that.

[Kaufschtick]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm looking for some general strategies to improve the Axis right now. If America goes heavy Africa with Mechanized Infantry, they are difficult to stop. But enough rambling on my part...

I really like how the mechanized U.S. infantry can help regain Africa for England in A&ARe. U.S. mech. inf. shuttling into the Soviet Far East can be threatening to Japans' Asian holdings also. I really like that NA. They are all pretty well done up in A&ARe, though.

[newaxis]

We have tried a northern German navy a few times with wolfpacks and the resultant massive IPC loss inflicted on UK. The counter was a double AC with UK turn 1, 4 US fighters turn one, fly up aircraft and then joint strike to kill the German fleet. Works like a charm. While you might think giving up joint strike early is bad, it prevents the convoy raiding from getting out of hand.

[pagan]

don't be greedy.

sit in baltic as soon as it gets ugly out there. +4 IPCs per round for free adds up over time.

allies suddenly build up to come kill your navy.. then make it really suck for them, build a SECOND AC and drop another 2 fighters onboard.

when they ignore you then so what. +4IPCs each round on UK sucks big-time when you are UK.

[Kaufschtick]

don't be greedy.

sit in baltic as soon as it gets ugly out there. +4 IPCs per round for free adds up over time.

allies suddenly build up to come kill your navy.. then make it really suck for them, build a SECOND AC and drop another 2 fighters onboard.

when they ignore you then so what. +4IPCs each round on UK sucks big-time when you are UK.

Ooooo. I like that double AC part. :) I'll have to remember that for my next game. Thanks for the tip, Pagan!

[DocD]

Hey newaxis, docd here. A couple of things....Joint Strike has to be against Weurope, so if Germany doesn't have any naval units on that coast, I don't see how Joint strike sinks the German Navy.

Also, Axis must use NA's as stop gaps and/or body blows. For Germany, I've never been able to make Panzerblitz work. But Dive Bombers work great. Even if the Allies load Russia up with fighters, those are fighters that won't be patrolling the North Atlantic or Africa. Also 88s can be used to keep dead zones on the eastern front, until the armoured spearheads are ready. Afrika Corps will go along way in extending a german presence in Africa. Wolfpacks are good too. I probably would try and combine them with SuperSubs later. Germany should always get some subs into the North Atlantic and spread them out. Building Kreigsmarines...well maybe.

For Japan, they must choose traditional march on moscow or Pacific adventure. They can't do both right off the bat. But don't let that stop you from placing a few trannies around Japan just in case something opens up. As far as Jpn NAs, I like kamikazes and Yamamotos to work the Allied fleets. Tokoyo express and banzais to help load up asia. Naval advantage is good particurlarly with shared tech.

Of course time is not a friend for the Axis, for as Pagan said, the eventual money imbalance will roll them, so keep that in mind.

The most important thing for the Axis to remember though is that the Allies cannot be everywhere at once. That is fact. If they are landing 5-10 fighters in Russia, then the North Atlantic has got to be bare, or African reinforcements are delayed, or Japan has a freehand in Asia, or Japan may have an opening at Hawaii. Axis must threaten or be in a position to threaten every allied VC.

That is the way I approach a game from the Axis point of view.

[pagan]

....Joint Strike has to be against Weurope, so if Germany doesn't have any naval units on that coast, I don't see how Joint strike sinks the German Navy.

The way the D-Day thingy is written allows for to consolidate an amphibious assault on Western Europe.

--There are 4 water zones that can drop off into WE: 5, 6, 7, 13

--Dropping off into any of those zones at the same time is still D-Day

--Clearing out the SZs of enemy ships in those drop zones is allowed

--attacking WE with a token 1 INF amphib drop is still D-Day

--the workjing with uk units on us transy, and the whole gambit of ships acting as a single force with all attacking power is D-Day as written

--this specific attack is HUGE for the Allies, and its free.

--better left as a National Advantage with this power

[Kaufschtick]

The way the D-Day thingy is written allows for to consolidate an amphibious assault on Western Europe.

--There are 4 water zones that can drop off into WE: 5, 6, 7, 13

--Dropping off into any of those zones at the same time is still D-Day

--Clearing out the SZs of enemy ships in those drop zones is allowed

--attacking WE with a token 1 INF amphib drop is still D-Day

--the workjing with uk units on us transy, and the whole gambit of ships acting as a single force with all attacking power is D-Day as written

--this specific attack is HUGE for the Allies, and its free.

--better left as a National Advantage with this power

Ahh, I see what they're getting at here with this one Doc, they're using the D-Day option to gang up the U.S. and British fleets to go in and clear out the Baltic seazone of heavy German fleet presence, and only making a token attack from there against Western Europe to keep the move legal. Very tricky, a work-around of the rules, yes; but legal. This could also be used to clear out the Med. of heavy Axis fleet presence too off seazone 13, I think it is... this thing could get ugly, now that I think about it!

[cousin_joe]

AAR Enhanced Tips for the Axis

1. Go Hard or Go Home!!!
-The Axis NAs are geared to Military Might, and to help dominate a theater. When choosing NAs really ask yourself, what is this NA going to do for me?!? When you have your answer, then exploit, exploit, exploit!!! Don't select NAs, Techs, or Purchases that minimize the impact of your NA.
-For example, if you're choosing Panzerblitz, buy a lot of tanks (no RTL), and then exchange the dead zones with a smaller INF commitment. This frees up your FTRs for other duties like the Atlantic or Africa (PS. Panzerblitz + LDB is a very nice combination :) ). It also saves you INF and makes it very hard for Russia to get their dead zones back.
-For Japan, there are several naval options to choose from which can potentially make a Pacific campaign very costly for the Allies. Also there are lots of strafing and bombardment options if Allies go into Sink, Ind or Aus. Again, pick the NA which you think will work best for you and exploit it to the fullest.
-The Axis NAs have great potential to totally dominate a theater and force the Allies to concede that theater, or at least require a very large effort to overcome the greater Axis strength.

2. Exploit the Weakness
-As DocD says, the Allies can't be everywhere at once. With a 2 AC build for UK, and 4FTRs for the US, that means the India, Aus, and Haw are yours for the taking. Get Germany into Karelia and the game is yours.
-Also, with that heavy an Atlantic build where are the ground forces for the Allies in Africa??? Think Afrika Corps + Med TRN or Egy IC. Africa can stay yours for a very long time.
-Also, where are the DDs for the Allies??? Consider SS + WP and letting your SUBs go hog wild on his ACs on G2.
-One more tip, if a front starts to go sour, and is looking like it can no longer be maintained, be prepared to switch your strategy because if he's putting a lot of resources into that front, he must be weak elsewhere.

3. Karelia is the Key for Germany
-Try to establish Karelia quickly with Germany
-The Enhanced rules really assist this by minimizing the Allies ability to stack Karelia. This cuts off Allied Ground Units from getting into the Eastern Front further and puts you mano a mano with the Russians. It also gives you access to a lot of territories for dead zone exchange.
-With the Karelia VC in hand, stage 2 is to establish WRus. Now, to use a chess term, you have essentially "forked" the VCs of Moscow and Stalingrad. That should get those FTRs out of Cau in a hurry :)

4. Set up the Japanese "forks"
-I won't get into much detail, but with it's strong Navy and Air Force, Japan has the opportunity to set up many forks in the Pacific, SE Asian, and even African theaters.
-When you set up a fork, you threaten at least two areas. More than likely, the Allies can not hold both, meaning one of the two is potentially yours for the taking. Once it's yours, hold it!!
-as in chess, when you start looking for the forks, you increase the threat capability of your side immensely. Players who say Japan is weak should take note ;)

5. Plan Ahead
-At the start of your turn, always think about which 4VCs you are going for. The Axis must be very goal directed in this and coordinate their efforts to be able to gain and hold all 4VCs on the same turn. Think long term as well and be prepared to adjust your gamplan in light of the Allied response. Think of which VCs you can get to and hold, and which are just out of the question. Also, plan on builds, NAs and Techs that will help you reach your goal.
-This is what makes Enhanced, truly enhanced! :) Unlike AH/LHTR where strategy is dictated to you (KGF, Race to Moscow), you make the decisions here... it's your decisions and long term planning which will ultimately dicttate whether you fail or succeed... so again, plan ahead!

[axis_roll]

The way the D-Day thingy is written allows for to consolidate an amphibious assault on Western Europe.

--There are 4 water zones that can drop off into WE: 5, 6, 7, 13

--Dropping off into any of those zones at the same time is still D-Day

--Clearing out the SZs of enemy ships in those drop zones is allowed

--attacking WE with a token 1 INF amphib drop is still D-Day

--the workjing with uk units on us transy, and the whole gambit of ships acting as a single force with all attacking power is D-Day as written

--this specific attack is HUGE for the Allies, and its free.

--better left as a National Advantage with this power
This rule makes it VERY hard for a german surface navy, I agree.

Also, Japan HAS to get a good start or they can be pigeon holed in Asia for quite a while. Keeping Japanese income levels to 30ish and the allies can contain *** advancement effectively.

[cousin_joe]

Hi newaxis,

It was never my intention to allow this type of combined attack on the German Navy and congrats to you and your friends for finding a flaw in the system :) (pagan also gets credit for mentioning this earlier ;) ) . The D-Day rule is at heart meant to be an amphibious assault on WEur and so I will change this. Check out the following thread:

http://boards.avalonhill.com/showthread.php?t=3751

[Kaufschtick]

We have tried a northern German navy a few times with wolfpacks and the resultant massive IPC loss inflicted on UK. The counter was a double AC with UK turn 1, 4 US fighters turn one, fly up aircraft and then joint strike to kill the German fleet. Works like a charm. While you might think giving up joint strike early is bad, it prevents the convoy raiding from getting out of hand.

Whoa, looks like you may have come across one of those game-breaker kinda loop holes to the D-Day NA! I believe Cousin Joe is working up a closure to that type of move as I speak. Good stuff. :)

[pagan]

This rule makes it VERY hard for a german surface navy, I agree.

Also, Japan HAS to get a good start or they can be pigeon holed in Asia for quite a while. Keeping Japanese income levels to 30ish and the allies can contain *** advancement effectively.

Oh you agree with me axis_roll, you just are holding your opinions.

Axis should not have to take quick poor risks to have a chance to win.

[cousin_joe]

Oh you agree with me axis_roll, you just are holding your opinions.

Axis should not have to take quick poor risks to have a chance to win.

What you need to keep in mind is that to keep Japan in check as you guys suggest, requires a HUGE economic investment by the Allies... you're talking 2ICs, plus maintenance units, plus a sizeable American fleet. Meanwhile, who's minding the store over in the Eastern Front and the Atlantic???

Sure, one can certainly employ this strategy, but the quintessential problem for the Allies is maintaining all their fronts. Too much attention on Japan and not enough of a D-Day threat on WEur, means a strong Ger push through the Eastern Front. If the Allies desert India and Sink to help, then the SE Asian front collapses and Japan breaks through there.

It's a lot easier to talk about an Orange Crush strategy than it actually is to pull off.

[axis_roll]

My friends and I have played numerous games of A&A using the Enhanced 2.0 rules. Even with bidding as high as 18 IPCs, the Allies keep winning.
Ukraine + 3 inf is untouchable on R1... which Almost makes the Caucasus undefendable on G1 (you would have to go light into west russia)
If Russia leaves a small force in Caucasus on R1, the axis can set up a grab and hold of Caucasus on G2/J2 (ftr support).

I've developed, but never implemented this Axis strategy as a counter to the R1 strike on Norway-AH rules (Pre-Enhanced days).

Using a panzerblitz (may not be needed) and Med tranny assault combined with a Med a/c and transport buy g1, there will be plenty (more like TOO many) of Axis units in Caucasus for R3....

Of course, I've left out a few details :)

I guess I am trying to say that 3 inf in Ukraine AND $9 to Germany for a G1 bank of $49 can be a little too much for Russia to handle on her own so early in the game, IMHO.

[newaxis]

Cousin Joe:
"exploit, exploit, exploit!!!"

I was happy to exploit your D-Day rule, cousin joe, mwa ha ha

After seeing some of y'alls PBEM and other games, I know I could take you on.

:)

[pagan]

Good for you newaxis....

Then I look forward to being exploited.... make sure you study that CJ vs Pagan one REAL hard...(smile)

[cousin_joe]

Cousin Joe:
"exploit, exploit, exploit!!!"

I was happy to exploit your D-Day rule, cousin joe, mwa ha ha

After seeing some of y'alls PBEM and other games, I know I could take you on.

:)

There you go, newaxis. First online grudge match. Here's a hint... when you play pagan, look for an opening into the UK on G2 ;)

LOL!!! :D

[DocD]

There you go, newaxis. First online grudge match. Here's a hint... when you play pagan, look for an opening into the UK on G2 ;)

LOL!!! :DLOL :D
Very brutal, joe!

Hey joe, how's about me and you take Axis against Pagan and Axis roll. I know we could whip them good.
After we get done, they wouldn't want to ever go near an "orange crush"!! Even if they were in the desert and it was ICE COLD! :D

[axis_roll]

Hey joe, how's about me and you take Axis against Pagan and Axis roll. I know we could whip them good.
After we get done, they wouldn't want to ever go near an "orange crush"!! Even if they were in the desert and it was ICE COLD! :D
Nothing against Pagan,

but I only partner via a Team AR venture:
AxisRoll and axis_roll.

[DocD]

Hey even better. Docd and CJ vs. the Axis Roll team! Let's get it on!

"This would be so great for the two foes (CJ and Myself) to team up to take out a common enemy!" Just like they do in WWE! :D

Then CJ and I get on our little spat!

[cousin_joe]

Should be clearing out a couple of games soon (a couple of LHTR stackfests which are taking forever). Let's see what happens with TomJag3 and ButchOHare. :)